Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

[Lone Star]

It's not just bad for that reason though, it's more than Goku basically just getting utterly humiliated in a tournament finale, whereas the writer's pet Bra has never faced such humiliation, and she basically got treated like she won a fight she gave up without throwing a single punch in, and then nobody really cared that she squandered her chance to fulfill a promise she made completely when Gast jobbed.

I know, the whole thing is retarded. But that guy was going off like the comic author shat on Toriyama's grave and going on about how Goku is the "childhood hero" of people and yadda yadda. I've just seen so many Dragon Ball fans that have this weird parasocial relationship with Goku and it still skeeves me out when I see it.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Forget Super, don't you dare suggest DBGT beat them to the punch
.View attachment 7606378

The funniest part about this is that in DBM, despite Vegeta explicitly saying that the Oozaru form is a 10x multiplier, Salagir headcanons it as a 2x increase and Super Saiyan 2 and 3 as a 10x increase each.
Salagir is one of those people that dont understand that the real reason that Gohan was so strong as a Super Saiyan 2 was because it was the combination of his rage AND the new transformation that allowed him to get that strong. Goku didn't even know that Super Saiyan 2 was a thing really, and was just counting on Gohan's rage.
Which is one of the reasons why Cell wasn't actually stronger than Gohan at his strongest when he came back with the Super Saiyan 2 electricity himself.

Anyway this means that Grandpa Gohan got killed by a PL 20 Great Ape.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I don't follow or care at all about DBM, but dying to a time stop ability is super boring and unoriginal. Guldo and Hit already did this lmao

 

[Chin of Campbell]

Man, Yamcha using his first Kamehameha was so hype. Even if he did get bodied afterward, it was still such a cool moment.

 

[sneedem&feedem]

Some sort of like tech/AI initiative company comissioned a short commercial featuring Bulma to raise awareness. It's done by many of the DB Daima staff and looks fantastic using the older 80s art style. I hope one day Toei makes a full length project that looks like this.

 

[Rick The Stick]

hope one day Toei makes a full length project that looks like this.

Kinda reminds me of this little short from a Future Trunks special in DBS

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Some sort of like tech/AI initiative company comissioned a short commercial featuring Bulma to raise awareness. It's done by many of the DB Daima staff and looks fantastic using the older 80s art style. I hope one day Toei makes a full length project that looks like this.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1GDmGaUI8-c

Is there any use of AI in the commercial?

Kinda reminds me of this little short from a Future Trunks special in DBS
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MIgGe7BIBCA

Is that from the extended version of the second film?

 

[Rick The Stick]

Is that from the extended version of the second film?

Think you might be right.

 

[We Are The Witches]

I just rewatched the Frieza fight, and in the anime they have Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaoutzu beating up Recoom, Jeice, Burter and Guldo. It was that easy, just some training with more atmospheres.

These people destroyed Vegeta when they fought him at first, and they are galactic conquerors basically, top-tier soldiers within the supposedly greatest galactic army. So you can just have Yamcha train for a bit in some exotic place, and he'll be able to defeat them... sure. Sure, why not?

It is very contrived.

 

[Gordumb Bumway]

>the tournament was never the focus
lmao, what a cope

I decided to sperg out a bit and looked at every fight from DBM to see how much of an interesting what if they really are.

Spoiler: Massive Autism

Spoiler: Massive Autism

Round 1
Nappa vs Cargo - Yeah its a what if, but who really cares about Nappa fighting a minor Namekian character.

Freeza vs Jeice - I mean it could be interesting how a subordinate would act with their superior in a tournament, but this was obviously not going anywhere.

Goku vs. Mahissu
Its an uninteresting nothing OC, who cares

17 vs IKL
Again, OC who was intially a joke, who cares

Burter vs. S. Kaioshin
Literally no one wondered this whatsoever and the interaction is mediocre and could have been done with anyone that's stronger than Burter. 1st round filler

Bujin vs Majin Buu
1st round slop, I suppose Buu regenerating after the slices and the illusion magic was vaguely interesting

Tidal vs Uub
OC, who cares

Recoome vs Nail
Interesting enough concept if Nail fought Recoome instead of stalling Frieza

Trunks vs Cooler
Interesting enough

King Vegeta vs Vegeta
Actually interesting concept

Loser Bardock vs Pan
Besides the familial connection who cares about pan fighting a fodder caveman version of Bardock

Kakarot vs Kat
OC, who cares

Cell vs Dabura
Long time fan fight, definitely counts

Pan vs Bojack
Not an interesting what if fight

Tapion vs Caracoru
Pretty sure this is an OC, so who cares

Salza vs Krillin
I don't care about a goon fighting an old krillin, not an interesting what if

Vegito vs Broly
Yes

Lumacca vs XXI
Fodder namekian vs OC, who cares

18 vs Yamcha
Sure whatever

Arale vs Mary Sue
Gag fight against an OC, who cares

Gotenks vs Gotenks
Yes

Neko Majin vs Romanesco
OC fodder caveman idiot, who cares

Xeniloum vs Buu
OC, don't care

Tien vs Sun Wukong
Well having Sun Wukong is kind of interesting, but he fought against Tien so there really isn't much what if value there

Zangya vs Bra
Who cares

Eleim vs 16
OC, who cares

King Cold vs Videl
Not interesting

Bardock vs Raditz
Sure

Toriyama vs Raichi
Gag, not an good what if

Syd vs Vegeta
OC, who cares

Gast vs Cell Jr
OC and not even an interesting match up character wise, who cares

Beelzebub vs King Piccolo
I guess

Round 2
Nappa vs Frieza
Same as with Jeice

Goku vs 17
The two never fought in Z Canon, so yes

S. Kai vs Buu
Rematch of a kind, so yes

Uub vs Nail
No, not really

Trunks vs Vegeta
Yes

Pan vs Kakarot
Parallel grandfather so sure

Cell vs Bojack
Another long running fan match up, so yes

Tapion vs Geriatric Krillin
No

Vegito vs Xxi
OC, so no

18 vs arale
Not really

Gotenks vs neko Majin
I guess


Buu vs Tien
Bro had no chance in the Buu saga and definitely not now, so no

Bra vs Eleim
OC, so no

King Cold vs Bardock
Fathers of Goku and Frieza fighting, so yes

Raichi vs U13 Vegeta
Kind of, I will admit I did enjoy this fight

Gast vs King Piccolo
Sure

Round 3

Goku vs Frieza
Yes

Majin Buu vs Uub
Yes

Vegeta vs Kakarot
Sort of

Cell vs Tapion (Hirudegarn)
Yes

Xxi vs 18
Still no

Gotenks vs Buu
Sure

Bra vs King Cold
Not really

Gast vs Raichi
Not really

Round 4
Goku vs Uub
Master vs student, yes

Vegeta vs Cell
Yes

Xxi vs Buu
Let me check ... yeah, still no

Gast vs Bra
No

Round 5
Goku vs Vegeta
Yes

Xxi vs Gast
No

Final Round
Goku vs Xxi
You already know the answer

So out of 64 matches, if I'm being generous to the ratings 27 were even vaguely interesting what ifs. That's only 42% of tournaments matches. Keep in mind I'm not referring to individual characters (a Bra that trains and a mass fusion Namekian are interesting) but rather the fights themselves.

Forget Super, don't you dare suggest DBGT beat them to the punch

They have to be being coy right? If a normal fan like you or me knows this, then someone dedicated enough to write a 17 year long sequel series surely would, right?



New page was posted a couple hours ago.

Confirmed XXI used the DEIdroid's timestop powers.

Someone in the comments made a tier list of every fight now that the tournament is over.

Jannies are doing their best to keep the everyman under control.

The funniest part about this is that in DBM, despite Vegeta explicitly saying that the Oozaru form is a 10x multiplier, Salagir headcanons it as a 2x increase and Super Saiyan 2 and 3 as a 10x increase each.

That is so unbelievably dumb.

 

[Smack Patrick]

That is so unbelievably dumb.

Yup. DBM and moreso Salagir's issue is that he's typical obnoxious "muh powerlevels" faggot, the whole 'umm acktually Oozaru's are x2 because it doesn't make sense for x10 Vegeta to be hurt by Goku' and the 'a SSJ cannot be beaten by a non-SSJ' things are proof of that.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of 'power levels' has a place in DB, but not to the point where it should negatively impact the story. Take the Future Gohan vs Dabura fight he did.
>Gohan has no chance of winning,
>Babidi makes Dabura give his energy to Buu for some reason
>Gohan is now stronger than the exhuasted Dabura
>Gohan wins
Actually retarded.

In times of talking about power levels I'm reminded of this sequence in DBXV2.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Yup. DBM and moreso Salagir's issue is that he's typical obnoxious "muh powerlevels" faggot, the whole 'umm acktually Oozaru's are x2 because it doesn't make sense for x10 Vegeta to be hurt by Goku' and the 'a SSJ cannot be beaten by a non-SSJ' things are proof of that.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of 'power levels' has a place in DB, but not to the point where it should negatively impact the story. Take the Future Gohan vs Dabura fight he did.
>Gohan has no chance of winning,
>Babidi makes Dabura give his energy to Buu for some reason
>Gohan is now stronger than the exhuasted Dabura
>Gohan wins
Actually retarded.

In times of talking about power levels I'm reminded of this sequence in DBXV2.
View attachment 7610263
View attachment 7610266

Don't forget the whole racial power caps, thing.
Goku will NEVER be stronger than Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan, even after achieving a new form and having trained to get stronger for 20 years straight.

It's unironically like somebody has trapped Goku and the rest of the cast in some sort of sisyphean nightmare realm where no matter how much he trains, no matter how much he tries, he can just never grow meaningfully more powerful.
Where even his super speshul new transformation (that needs a literal minute to power up into, making it literally less feasible to use than a fucking spirit bomb, fusion dance, or the god damn mafuba) resulted in him being so much weaker than Ultimate Gohan that Old Kai said Goku wouldn't stand a chance against the bad guy without his ritual.
He's just arbitrarily locked to Buu Saga Power Levels because that was when Dragonball ended.

 

[Smack Patrick]

It's unironically like somebody has trapped Goku and the rest of the cast in some sort of sisyphean nightmare realm where no matter how much he trains, no matter how much he tries, he can just never grow meaningfully more powerful.

Almost like the antithesis of what DB is supposed to be about or something...

Also

Confirmed XXI used the DEIdroid's timestop powers.

How is he even able to use this power?
They established only artificial beings are immune to it's powers, so why is he magically unaffected now? Wouldn't he just wind up freezing himself in time?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I just rewatched the Frieza fight, and in the anime they have Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaoutzu beating up Recoom, Jeice, Burter and Guldo. It was that easy, just some training with more atmospheres.

These people destroyed Vegeta when they fought him at first, and they are galactic conquerors basically, top-tier soldiers within the supposedly greatest galactic army. So you can just have Yamcha train for a bit in some exotic place, and he'll be able to defeat them... sure. Sure, why not?

It is very contrived.

Killin was stronger on Namek than Vegeta with out King Kai's training. After Guru unlocked his power he hit 13,000 so that's not even why. Through battle he hit 75,000, ending up over 4x as strong as Vegeta was on Earth. Wouldn't be surprising for Yamcha and the others to be stronger than the Ginyu Force after King Kai's training, especially considering he said they were progressing faster than even Goku did.

 

[Gordumb Bumway]

View attachment 7610263
View attachment 7610266

I actually played that game for the first time recently (like 9 years late lol) and I can't help but be disappointed that the whole Trunks' inner conflict about saving Gohan lasted like 20-30 minutes in the game. Couldn't we at least have a "reduce health to a certain amount" fight or something? I know Trunks is a more serious, get the job done character so he would have agreed eventually but the fact he folded so quickly is disappointing, because IMO this is quite literally the perfect conflict for Trunks because he has changed the past before and this is the most influential person in Trunks' life. Yes, I should know better than to expect interesting writing from an anime game based upon self insert power fantasy. Sorry, we need more Elder Kai doing dumb generic Japanese poses while our time patroller golem stares soullessly at him. (I did enjoy the game overall though.)

Oh well, enough sperging.

How is he even able to use this power?

The understanding I was able to glean from the comments is that the shadow dragon in his room was able to give him/recreate IKL's powers in some form.

Goku will NEVER be stronger than Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan, even after achieving a new form and having trained to get stronger for 20 years straight.

It genuinely is such a terrible writing decision when this is DRAGON BALL we're talking about here.

It is very contrived.

It's ridicolous because Goku was there for months and had a much more modest growth compared to them. Yeah, it's non canon filler but it's still silly.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I just rewatched the Frieza fight, and in the anime they have Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaoutzu beating up Recoom, Jeice, Burter and Guldo. It was that easy, just some training with more atmospheres.

These people destroyed Vegeta when they fought him at first, and they are galactic conquerors basically, top-tier soldiers within the supposedly greatest galactic army. So you can just have Yamcha train for a bit in some exotic place, and he'll be able to defeat them... sure. Sure, why not?

It is very contrived.

That's all non-canon anime filler that you can pretty safely disregard.
It's about as canon as Goku in the Metal Cooler Movie unironically having an infinite amount of speed due to being able to react and fight with Metal Cooler with both of them in the midst of instant transmission.
So not at all.

 

[Smack Patrick]

I actually played that game for the first time recently (like 9 years late lol) and I can't help but be disappointed that the whole Trunks' inner conflict about saving Gohan lasted like 20-30 minutes in the game.

Dude, I loved me some DBXV2 but there was so much wasted potential. Know what would've been Kino?
>Trunks jumps in to assist Future Gohan, going against his vow as a Time Patroller (Like how he does in the secret ending.)
>him and Gohan are fighting against the Androids
>Trunks being there is turning the tide
>Androids get knocked out
>Trunks is about to finish them off
>ENTER. PROTAGONIST.
>"Objective: Stop Trunks."
>you beat the shit out of Trunks and send him back to the SKoT
>... You planning on bringing me back now, SKoT?
>...
>"Objective: Kill Gohan."
A bit grimdark but it would cement the point that Time Patrollers are meant to preserve the natural flow of time. Regardless of whether or not it leads to a happy ending.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Dude, I loved me some DBXV2 but there was so much wasted potential. Know what would've been Kino?
>Trunks jumps in to assist Future Gohan, going against his vow as a Time Patroller (Like how he does in the secret ending.)
>him and Gohan are fighting against the Androids
>Trunks being there is turning the tide
>Androids get knocked out
>Trunks is about to finish them off
>ENTER. PROTAGONIST.
>"Objective: Stop Trunks."
>you beat the shit out of Trunks and send him back to the SKoT
>... You planning on bringing me back now, SKoT?
>...
>"Objective: Kill Gohan."
A bit grimdark but it would cement the point that Time Patrollers are meant to preserve the natural flow of time. Regardless of whether or not it leads to a happy ending.

Honestly, that's the worst part about the Supreme Kai of Time, she's just way too nice for somebody with her job. She just let that shit fly.
It's why I prefer Aeos as her predeccessor who notices that Chronoa has been fucking up so much for so long in regards to these parallel worlds she takes herself out of vacation in order to get rid of the hundreds of billions of branched timelines that have occured on Chronoa's watch.
Why do the villains of Heroes go so hard?

 

[Smack Patrick]

Why do the villains of Heroes go so hard?

Only real villain I know from DBH is that Hearts guy who wanted to kill the Zeno's and have the mortals be free...
Why exactly was he the villain again?

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Only real villain I know from DBH is that Hearts guy who wanted to kill the Zeno's and have the mortals be free...
Why exactly was he the villain again?

opposed the status quo.
It's really funny because straight up does nothing but help out after he is defeated.