Dungeons & Dragons: Wizards of the Coast Removes Problematic Lore - Wizards of the Coast continues to excise potentially problematic content from Dungeons and Dragons books to address issues of system racism.

[Capsaicin Addict]

Honestly think it was just unnecessary there's no reason why you know you just light armor plus three medium armor plus five heavy armor + 7 whatever magic effects there's no reason it's it's just extra work and it doesn't really add to it removing Seiko was a good decision and I would not really trust the decision-making process of somebody who thinks it was a good thing that should have stayed in the game maybe the only actually good decision that was ever made was removing Seiko everything revolving around casters obviously was bad because you know casters are well that's another discussion but yeah I know think it was they go stupid they goes a waste of time even if you go back to Old School pre-ad&d basic D&D very easy to just literally like I like I said about remove fakeo ignore the entire chart and literally just say oh yeah light + 3 medium + 5 heavy + 7 shield plus two leave me the f*** alone I don't care and and you know and just like yeah so just just okay the thing rolls you know 18 does that hit you yeah it hits you okay fine move on does you know d6 plus whatever damage but they're people who like to keep it we got to keep our AC on our on our on our token on our thing it's going to be this it's like just tell me whether I think f****** heads and you declare whether or not you got hit I don't want to I can't keep track of all your I don't know what the f****** stats are I can barely keep track of my s*** you keep track of your s*** and that goes bad that's all I have to say

tl;dr

Spoken like someone who's done that with a hireling....*wink*

In the old 1E summon monster tables, you could call up some weak critters -- like 'elven children'. One guy summoned them up, and sent them down a trap-laden hall with 'look kids, candy!'.

The party had to KO the elf before they could unwrap the guy's hands from around the magician's neck.

Good times.

 

[Wormy]

tl;dr


In the old 1E summon monster tables, you could call up some weak critters -- like 'elven children'. One guy summoned them up, and sent them down a trap-laden hall with 'look kids, candy!'.

The party had to KO the elf before they could unwrap the guy's hands from around the magician's neck.

Good times.

Being we weren't total sadists, we at least returned his weapon and armor, as well as gave a small portion of the endgame gold to his surviving family and told them that he died a hero.

R.I.P Gummy the Gnome hireling. Hell of a guy.

 

[RumblyTumbly]

I am not a D&D enthusiest and only played a handful of times, the last time being at least 15 years ago.

That said, shit like this is becoming too much of a trend. These brands become "more inclusive" and then the people that come in want to downgrade everything and make the brand less than it was, and established fans are just supposed to sit there and be okay with it.

Gatekeeping is not a bad thing.

 

[BrokLesnerd]

All I'm hearing here is that there's dumb faggy controversy over nerdy bullshit, and if I really want to do my dumb nerdy bullshit my way, all I have to do is dig out my old d&d books from a box in my basement, call up a few fellow peeps who like to nerd out, and play the game that way while laughing at all of this.

Seriously, even if you don't have the books, it's easy enough to dig em up online, I just kept mine for nostalgia purposes. And I'm damn sure not going down to some "woke" infested game shop to play whatever d&d is now with people I don't know who are half my age anyways.

The issue with such a perspective is that without "new blood" hobbies die. Walling yourself inside the ivory tower and ignoring the barbarians at the gates doesn't actually do anything about the problems outside, and the longer this cancer is allowed to metastasize, the more pervasive it becomes.

Part of the problem with the woke infestation of gaming is that it encourages in new participants a status-quo of only using new materials and a mentality of "this is the way it is done" which stifles creativity. Why do you think nothing new is created anymore, and instead all we get in any form of entertainment are just warped rehashes of existing products?

No one creates their own settings anymore.
No one tries talking to monsters anymore.
No one uses proper tactics anymore.

Most of the time, people don't even use skills anymore. It's all just "lol, derp, roll for initiative, my catgirl uses xir claws to kill dat guy! YAY! We saved Daggerdale!"

For a brighter future, you've got to be involved in the present.

 

[ZMOT]

No one creates their own settings anymore.
No one tries talking to monsters anymore.
No one uses proper tactics anymore.

Most of the time, people don't even use skills anymore. It's all just "lol, derp, roll for initiative, my catgirl uses xir claws to kill dat guy! YAY! We saved Daggerdale!"

For a brighter future, you've got to be involved in the present.

it may look like it, but we're not at the point where every creative spark has been smothered (doubt that will ever be possible). just because a setting doesn't show up in a book on a shelf at walmart doesn't mean people don't do it, same other stuff. they'll just do it via kickstarter, patreon or simply for free.

there will always be a majority of plebs, and there were always people that played dnd, same as there were always people shitting on it and doing their own thing. what has changed really are the numbers and thus the perception of it. wotc out-woking itself won't mean tomorrow all you gonna get is sanitized shit played by sanitized shitters - that's not how it works, there will always be people looking for more than that drivel, and thus people catering to it. and there's even an argument that with that higher number of shitters you got a higher number of people looking for that, more than before.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

I have a legitimate question to ask, is there anyone who is unironically a fan of the newer D&D stuff that isn't a furry or tumblrite? I swear to god D&D is rife with furries for some reason.

I am unironically a fan of Exandria, which is Matt Mercer's setting that he wrote for Critical Role and I will defend that setting all week and twice on Sunday despite the little bits of wokeshit liberally sprinkled through it. You have two empires that are about to fall into a Thucydides trap, one a rising power fueled by magic and faith and the other an established though stagnant one fueled by money and gun powder. You have pirates and high sea adventure in the south, you have a frozen northern waste populated mostly by people who are dodging prosecution and who have uncovered the frozen corpse of worm god that they're now eating... and mutating because of it. You got cults, you got the modified Greyhawk Pantheon from 4e, you got a cult that's trying to put Vecna back together. The book is actually crammed with good ideas and it's grown on me over time.

In this, I have to give Mercer credit: He is not inventive but he knows how to put classic elements of D&D together in interesting ways and it also hasn't been blown up everytime TSR or WotC want to put out a new edition.

 

[Haramburger]

It’s bizarre. They’ve infested knitting, of all hobbies.

They haven't infested actual knitting, just the places online where people who would want to talk about knitting would go to find more information about knitting, or to talk to someone else who likes knitting. It doesn't seem like a big difference but it is. You will never find these woke fucktard trannies in an actual real-world craft show or looking for knitting tips from actual seniors at the old people apartments/bingo hall.

It's terminally online, mentally ill faggots looking to stake a claim and bully an otherwise leaderless community into their own little cult. The big places like tabletop and video games are largely taken, but there's still a chance to be a Big Fish In A Small Pond with shit like knitting and basket-weaving. Centralizing the interwebs into the dogshit Top 10 Main Websites is probably the biggest mistake, that needs to change before there's any big shift away from this nonsense. Maybe the only realistic longshot it getting a few celebrities to embrace the Fediverse and popularize a wild west corner of the internet that SJWs can't sanitize in any way, but have to suffer through to see the latest news from the industry leaders they idolize.

I'm typing in without punctuation because I'm talking into my Google mind control master manipulator speaking speech to text device because I'm lazy and I want it I don't want to type anything on it cuz I hate this phone cuz I have huge man thumbs and I can't f****** press half these gas buttons but but yeah the problem is

I believe you, and it made reading your bullshit possible. I'm dying, keep it up

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Part of the problem with the woke infestation of gaming is that it encourages in new participants a status-quo of only using new materials and a mentality of "this is the way it is done" which stifles creativity. Why do you think nothing new is created anymore, and instead all we get in any form of entertainment are just warped rehashes of existing products?

No one creates their own settings anymore.
No one tries talking to monsters anymore.
No one uses proper tactics anymore.

Most of the time, people don't even use skills anymore. It's all just "lol, derp, roll for initiative, my catgirl uses xir claws to kill dat guy! YAY! We saved Daggerdale!"

I create my own settings.

My players sometimes try talking to monsters that don't immediately move to attack, even if they seem aggressive and slightly threatening, because who wouldn't be wary and slightly aggressive about weird looking strangers in your neighborhood?

They use tactics.

The problem is, rather than actually push back, a lot of people (myself included in some ways) have just said "Fuck it" and walked away from the online TTRPG discourse to run their own games that are carefully curated. They don't stream, they don't put up videos, they just play.

Which makes it so Hasbro and WotC and Paizo all pay attention to the shrieking dangerhairs that have infested their companies and are now telling them that the dangerhairs are the only market that can save their products from the "nice product you have there, be a shame if someone called it racist..." grift going on.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Which makes it so Hasbro and WotC and Paizo all pay attention to the shrieking dangerhairs that have infested their companies and are now telling them that the dangerhairs are the only market that can save their products from the "nice product you have there, be a shame if someone called it racist..." grift going on.

Well this is all hypothetical

But lets say a group of Tzeentch's players documented all the instances of Khorne and Nurgle players being rightoids and also declaring Slaneesh to be trannies and other gender unfriendly words as well as calling Tzeentch a "bird jew". And again say if hypothetically ADL later contacts them for clarification and GWS is now going to quietly rebalance the factions so the Slaneesh is good and pure LGBTQ+ good people who was all misunderstood and are really the best ever and Tzeentch gets buffs too while Khorne and Nurgle now become undesirable due to power imbalance.


I mean wouldn't that be just a high form of meta gaming as well as role play?

 

[c-no]

Seeing as how Beholders have to change because of someone thinks it can refer IRL shit makes me wonder how many really have to take a floating eye monster so seriously in thinking it'll somehow offend someone IRL with schizophrenia or demonize people with mental illnesses. At least with one sperging about the Drow, they had something with a human shape looking like blackface but here it's just bitching about the lore of a floating evil eyeball with narcissism. I managed to see some sperging that tried to defend this while some try paint those not liking this as chuds or incel just for not liking these changes but honestly, the change to something like a floating eyeball just sounds like stupid hollow shit, and throwing insults like "chud" or "racist" because people don't like change to floating eyeballs doesn't really help make it sound any more mature.

Why even play as an orc if you just want to act like a pussy elf, furry wolfen or human faggot who doesn't even like to pillage and slaughter? These people really just seem to want everything to be queer and sanitized.
View attachment 2806940
Its even worse than the mothers who thought D&D was the Devil's work. At least then the changes they brought about through their criticisms were incredibly short lived, and outside of changes to fiends, the assholes monsters were still allowed to act like asshole monsters.

The only modernity fantasy roleplay really needs is just making all groups vary individually in morality unless someone still has to be buggered on "bloodthirsty orc warlord" because they think it's gonna be reflection of IRL racism and not someone just wanting to make different bad guy for every scenario or encounter. Unless D&D's racism problem was more on players doing campaigns with whatever homebrews than DnD's own vanilla lore, I can't even see how one would say "evil bloodthirsty race of green" is gonna be outdated beyond someone just overusing that for the thousandth time.

 

[Aib Ld]

I'm currently in the middle of a DnD 5e game and one of the players is a genderfluid or something tabaxi. Everyone else subtely refused to use the wildly-changing pronouns, just the character's name-but if they have to, they use the default 'he' or the DM covers up by describing the group as a whole. The player is not really that bad, more focused on playing the rogue of the team and didn't force any trans shit for now, but I worry whats going to happen if/when the player notices.
The beholders remain their typical paranoid selves, and mind flayers are unchanged, but there's mysteriously no orcs nor kobolds so far, which make it worse since I don't know if the DM is a restrained or slowly transforming SJW, or also playing it safe for the possible ticking time bomb player.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

While the party in the game I'm running hasn't had a lot of encounters with orcs, I've fluffed them as a bit similar to Klingons; they're only going to respect you if you're strong. If you show weakness, you're in deep shit. Conversely, showing power, ferocity, and yes, even guile will let you parley with them.

Beholders are going to be absolutely terrifying for the party, because prior to this their only encounter with that kind of critter was a spectator, and spectators are almost polar opposites in terms of psychology.

 

[jorgoth]

The beholder lore is just how people on twitter act.






Literally twitter people.

The twitter faggot cries out in pain as he strikes you.

 

[The Ugly One]

it may look like it, but we're not at the point where every creative spark has been smothered (doubt that will ever be possible). just because a setting doesn't show up in a book on a shelf at walmart doesn't mean people don't do it, same other stuff. they'll just do it via kickstarter, patreon or simply for free.

Kickstarter and Patreon have the same prohibitions on "hate" that everyone else does. They're not quite as aggressively enforced as they are on, say, knitting forums, since each thing they shut down directly hurts their bottom line, but the woke forces are gaining steam there, too.

 

[SiccDicc]

Kickstarter and Patreon have the same prohibitions on "hate" that everyone else does. They're not quite as aggressively enforced as they are on, say, knitting forums, since each thing they shut down directly hurts their bottom line, but the woke forces are gaining steam there, too.

That's why Kickstarter is trying to become a blockchain to bypass the need for that kind of staff.

Patreon is beholden to payment processors, but they will protect their favorite projects.

 

[ZMOT]

Kickstarter and Patreon have the same prohibitions on "hate" that everyone else does. They're not quite as aggressively enforced as they are on, say, knitting forums, since each thing they shut down directly hurts their bottom line, but the woke forces are gaining steam there, too.

no one cares if your released book months later has raping white orcs colonizing the dark elve's island, the kickstarter money is gone already. they might close your account and prevent you from making a new one, but KS doesn't really care, just don't be stupid during the actual campaign.
patreon doesn't care either as long as payment processors don't care, as @SiccDicc said.

and not every game needs that kind of material, I was talking about creativity in general that is not beholden to established publishers. even you want to release a remaster of KZ MANAGER 2022, there are still ways around it, same way porn games go around the incest ban.

 

[HumanHive]

I'm currently in the middle of a DnD 5e game and one of the players is a genderfluid or something tabaxi. Everyone else subtely refused to use the wildly-changing pronouns, just the character's name-but if they have to, they use the default 'he' or the DM covers up by describing the group as a whole. The player is not really that bad, more focused on playing the rogue of the team and didn't force any trans shit for now, but I worry whats going to happen if/when the player notices.
The beholders remain their typical paranoid selves, and mind flayers are unchanged, but there's mysteriously no orcs nor kobolds so far, which make it worse since I don't know if the DM is a restrained or slowly transforming SJW, or also playing it safe for the possible ticking time bomb player.

Test the waters. Bring up orcs and see what happens.

 

[b0x]

It's not only happening to the ruleset. The D&D fiction writers are now retconning their own characters

D&D’s Drizzt books were built on racist tropes. R.A. Salvatore wants to change that​

‘If the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away’

“I can’t tell you how many letters I’ve gotten over the years, from people who have said, ‘Thank you for Drizzt.’” Salvatore said. “‘I finally have someone who looks like me.’ On the one hand, you have that. But on the other hand, if the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away, be buried under the deepest pit, and never brought out again. I was unaware of that. I admit it. I was oblivious.”

D&D’s Drizzt books were built on racist tropes. R.A. Salvatore wants to change that

‘If the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away’

www.polygon.com

 

[ChucklesTheJester]

It's not only happening to the ruleset. The D&D fiction writers are now retconning their own characters

D&D’s Drizzt books were built on racist tropes. R.A. Salvatore wants to change that​

‘If the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away’

“I can’t tell you how many letters I’ve gotten over the years, from people who have said, ‘Thank you for Drizzt.’” Salvatore said. “‘I finally have someone who looks like me.’ On the one hand, you have that. But on the other hand, if the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away, be buried under the deepest pit, and never brought out again. I was unaware of that. I admit it. I was oblivious.”

D&D’s Drizzt books were built on racist tropes. R.A. Salvatore wants to change that

‘If the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away’

www.polygon.com

But if you remove the evil from the drow wouldn't that just make them bootleg dwarfs in elf skin?

 

[b0x]

But if you remove the evil from the drow wouldn't that just make them bootleg dwarfs in elf skin?

It's like they forgot their own lore

The Church of Eilistraee was the primary religious organization of the followers of the goddess Eilistraee, the Dark Maiden.

The worshipers of Eilistraee were mostly drow: either born into her society, or hoping to escape the Underdark and Lolth's evil, taking back their place in the surface world and living at peace with all other races. However, in line with her ideals, Eilistraee would welcome and accept beings of all races who desired to see all people living in harmony, without pointless discrimination or wars, and worked towards that goal.[2]

Church of Eilistraee

The Church of Eilistraee was the primary religious organization of the followers of the goddess Eilistraee, the Dark Maiden. The worshipers of Eilistraee were mostly drow: either born into her society, or hoping to escape the Underdark and Lolth's evil, taking back their place in the surface...

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