Dungeons & Dragons: Wizards of the Coast Removes Problematic Lore - Wizards of the Coast continues to excise potentially problematic content from Dungeons and Dragons books to address issues of system racism.

[RX-78]

The Gnolls and Kobols got their lore sanitized because Troons tend to portray themselves as Hyenas or "Yeens" in some circles which is what Gnolls resemble. This is because the female Hyena has a pseudo-penis and this use they as a means to explain why Actual Troons have a very real penis.

That's so fucking retarded that I don't doubt it for a second, reminds me how the tumblr crowd clung to sex-changing fish to justify chopping thier dicks off as being natural.

 

[Snekposter]

I don't own Neo-Tribes, so fair point there.

But since I actually agree with that stance, and the criticism is as much against supremacist mindsets. Also, slagging on "Me First" goes against quite a bit of right wing dogma.


That one's just going after typical uncontrolled greed, however.

Aside from the part about "competing special interest groups", that is. Back in the 90's and early 2000's that was the term for organizations like the NAACP and NRA.

I know Blood Axes still got a more german asthetic as well as medals, but it is not universal for all orks.

That's because Blood Axes are like Hungarians: thieving bastards who can only steal ideas from others, and then poorly and ham-fistedly implement them.
(Still can't beat the Blood Gypsies, I mean Blood Ravens though for sheer plundering talent.)

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

The Gnolls and Kobols got their lore sanitized because Troons tend to portray themselves as Hyenas or "Yeens" in some circles which is what Gnolls resemble. This is because the female Hyena has a pseudo-penis and this use they as a means to explain why Actual Troons have a very real penis.

Mind you many still think Hyenas are a form of canid, but they're not. They're related to weasels and ferrets.

Wait, does this mean gnolls have PC stats now? Because they were playable in 3.5/4, but not 5e because their lore got upgraded from "yet another bad news demihuman race" to "literal extensions of a bloodthirsty demon-god."

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

The funny thing is, is there's a difference between liberals and Left Wing, SJW, and Progressives nowadays.

A liberal from the 70's and 80's would be considered Alt-Right or Rightwing today, if not outright accused of being a Neo-Nazi.

These changes are, from a world building toolbox point of view, complete fucking garbage.

It makes me think of the late 2E Forgotten Realms, where Cyric was the WORST fucking God of Evil because he couldn't accomplish shit. None of the badguy groups were allowed to win, good had be triumphant, and all the evil guys would just vanish in a puff of smoke if they tried to tie their shoes.

If you remember, it turned the Forgotten Realms into this bland bullshit.

Then the whole "ALL DROW ARE LIKE DRIZZT'S HOME CITY!" bullshit people were yelling when in fact, the official TSR stuff mentioned other drow from other cities who thought Mezzoberranzan was full of crack-heads.

These people think that stories are just tales of people getting along and passing around the feelings stick.

They forget that conflict drives plot.

Of course, we could always get into the fact that the majority of the WotC staff, hell, most of the people working in RPG publishing, have been coddled faggots their entire lives, so their stories come from a place of nothing, no experience, and no feeling.

Fuck this whole thing.

I won't even buy Pathfinder 2E stuff, I'm glad I never got into the 5E shit, and I'll definitely pass on the 6E shit when it's announced next year.

You know, I wonder how much money you could make designing a campaign setting with no mechanics, that you could use with any fantasy system, where slavery, morally gray societies, drug use, evil races, and just plain asshole rulers all existed.

Bet you could make good money before the screeching SJW's shut you down on Patreon and WotC sent you a cease and desist because they own fantasy now.

 

[SiccDicc]

You know, I wonder how much money you could make designing a campaign setting with no mechanics, that you could use with any fantasy system, where slavery, morally gray societies, drug use, evil races, and just plain asshole rulers all existed.

Well, Open Legend is pretty flexible for just about any universe and is more about narrative power than crunch, a lot of player agency with it. There's another ruleset that's used for the Conan the Barbarian Tabletop that's pretty good, comes with doom dice to push your luck. Essentially if you don't get the result you want you can spend some extra dice but you're pushing your luck doing so and the DM can later use those dice against you when he wants. Yet 5E is mostly just gambling. You roll, you don't factor shit in at all like you did in prior editions because Mike Mearls thought minorities and women can't do math. He said that shit scared them away so he was proud to have dumbed down streamlined the system for them.

Bigotry of low expectations is somehow heralded as heroic and I'll never understand why.

 

[BrokLesnerd]

The most frustrating thing about all of this is that this both eliminates the suspension of belief necessary for such games to be fun by injecting reality where it is incompatible with the material, and removes the impetus for why things are bad.

"Race" as used in D&D terms means "Species". Orks are not niggers, because niggers unfortunately exist in D&D. Humans are just as ethnically diverse in D&D as the are in real life.

Mind Flayers and Beholders are alien invaders and are "evil" because they have foreign morals and do not have any regard for the goyim of the new world they have arrived on. This callousness and lack of empathy is what makes them compelling villains to be defeated and provides the impetus for the heroes to take action.

Who ever wrote that change to mind flayer lore was under mind control from a elder brain.

WORRY NOT OTHER SPECIES, IT IS SAFE TO VIST MIND FLAYER TOWNS WE ARE NOT ALL RACIST. WE PROMISE NOT TO EAT YOU, OR MAKE YOU A MIND SLAVE! - Elder brain PR team.

Sounds a lot like Jews to be honest.

I swear to fucking god, TSR should get rid of their hippie ass RPG and just make D&D with the WoTC shit filed off.

That's just Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game, though.

I don't know how you can claim that literal brain eaters are somehow "misunderstood" or "not all bad". Next they'll be saying the Blood War was all just some little misunderstanding and that it's actually quite peaceful.

The 4E Blood War was a "cold war" conflict. They already did that.

 

[El Conserje]

I used to love playing D&D with friends in high school, but now I just feel... Tired. All the shit show WOTC has been making: the wheel chair dungeon crawling, the erasing of alignments, the gayshit everywhere, the destruction os races... Just nuke everything from orbit already

 

[Marissa Moira]

I used to love playing D&D with friends in high school, but now I just feel... Tired. All the shit show WOTC has been making: the wheel chair dungeon crawling, the erasing of alignments, the gayshit everywhere, the destruction os races... Just nuke everything from orbit already

Wheelchair dungeon crawling doesn't sound so bad

Like pick your cripple carrying origin. is your wheelchair going to be some magic hover bullshit because it's made from wood from a magic tree? How about a one man demonic chariot that melds to your legs like Axle from Twisted Metal that requires you to bash into other enemies to sate it's bloodlust? Some gay automaton spider legs bullshit built from forbidden ancient technology that gives you a buff for stair climbing speed?

You can make that shit work because the main inhibitor would be vertical exploration.

 

[Wormy]

I used to love playing D&D with friends in high school, but now I just feel... Tired. All the shit show WOTC has been making: the wheel chair dungeon crawling, the erasing of alignments, the gayshit everywhere, the destruction os races... Just nuke everything from orbit already

As pointed out before, the beauty of this hobby is that you are under zero obligation to do that at your table. Don't like the wokeshit? Don't use it. Find a previous edition, or another RPG you like (there are more than just D&D, believe it or not) and roll with it. Go as underground as you need to. That's what my circle does.

 

[HumanHive]

Wheelchair dungeon crawling doesn't sound so bad

Like pick your cripple carrying origin. is your wheelchair going to be some magic hover bullshit because it's made from wood from a magic tree? How about a one man demonic chariot that melds to your legs like Axle from Twisted Metal that requires you to bash into other enemies to sate it's bloodlust? Some gay automaton spider legs bullshit built from forbidden ancient technology that gives you a buff for stair climbing speed?

You can make that shit work because the main inhibitor would be vertical exploration.

No, the problem with “wheelchair accessible dungeons” is the idea of a dungeon being accessible in any respect - to the abled or disabled. It’s supposed to be a tomb with traps or a fortress stronghold, not a fucking theme park.

 

[Marissa Moira]

No, the problem with “wheelchair accessible dungeons” is the idea of a dungeon being accessible in any respect - to the abled or disabled. It’s supposed to be a tomb with traps or a fortress stronghold, not a fucking theme park.

You see that's a problem with terminology, accessible just means it's able to access them and be able to go past it's entryway. Lava is wheelchair accessible because nothing would be stopping you from rolling Timmy into the hot festering pit of magma. Dungeons are not VIABLE or EFFICENT for wheelchairs, but they're accessible.

I mean game of thrones showed that you can drag a cripple around though numerous dangers and terrain types and have a perfectly fine adventure.

 

[ChucklesTheJester]

No, the problem with “wheelchair accessible dungeons” is the idea of a dungeon being accessible in any respect - to the abled or disabled. It’s supposed to be a tomb with traps or a fortress stronghold, not a fucking theme park.

You could make a case for liches to have wheelchair accessible lairs and dungeons. If someone disabled has that much of a death wish they want to vist the local evil lich, might as well install a ramp outside to make that free juicy soul, have that much of a easier time getting to you, so you can feed him to your phylactery.

Image how many wheel chair bound idiots are keeping liches all around the realm well fed.

 

[Kulee Baba]

I tried, I tried real hard to do Tabletop RPGs. The group that invited me were nice easy going guys. They did Pathfinder and I saw the Barbarian class. I like a Barbarian because I picture Conan. I dreamt of speaking in the shittiest Arnold impression ever. I then read the lore description and the Barbarian is referred to as she/her. The whole description just constantly referring to a female Barbarian.

Now I definitely got some autism, whether that's a birth or by consooming too much stupid nerdshit is a mystery. And I'm not so autistic to be mad at the thought of a female barbs being the treated the same as males. I'm a gamer I'm used to fantasy treating gender being a cosmetic choice. But I looked at that text and I felt there was some pointed intention by the book's writers and editors. They intentionally wanted me to feel "triggered" that a name I associate with male warriors was being addressed to women exclusively. They could have just written it gender neutral like most video games do.

Everything I found in Pathfinder (whatever stupid edition I read) felt like it was an intentional choice to leave me, a dopey nerd with an ordinary knowledge of fantasy confused. Because when I read it I can't get into the groove of how things were named. The Gods, all a bunch of fucking jibberish names I can't keep track of. And DnD does that shit too what type of fucking name is Wee Jas??? I don't know how PnP nerds willingly work to memorize all this worthless shit!

And you know what's funny. The original DnD didn't waste your time with this mindnumbing garbage. You look back at what DnD named gods all the way up to the 3rd Edition and they just used the names from historical mythos. I know who Zeus is why can't I just be a Wizard who worships Zeus???

I swear if some company would just make an RPG for dumb people like me maybe this autistic hobby could attract nerds like me. You know I look back at DnD names I know by just knowing pop culture and guess what they originally had basic generic names that anyone could easily understand. What's a Mindflayer? Sounds like a monster that fucks with your mind wow that was easy to figure out! A Gelantinous Blob, I wonder what that could mean?

What's my point? I don't fucking know. I think the PnP RPG writers make shit needlessly complicated as a form of grand autistic gatekeeping. You have Orcs in your lore well you know what they should just be Orcs like everyone already understands them as from the Lord of the Rings movies.

Only fucking Warhammer understands this. It's called KISS; Keep It Simple Stupid!

 

[ZMOT]

You know, I wonder how much money you could make designing a campaign setting with no mechanics, that you could use with any fantasy system, where slavery, morally gray societies, drug use, evil races, and just plain asshole rulers all existed.

Bet you could make good money before the screeching SJW's shut you down on Patreon and WotC sent you a cease and desist because they own fantasy now.

that sounds like midnight - which was published by FFG, which got bought by asmodee.
highly unlikely they ever gonna do anything with it since they're somewhat pozzed too, but it would be hilarious given the whole netrunner thing and asmodee is big enough to just tell wotc to shove it.

And you know what's funny. The original DnD didn't waste your time with this mindnumbing garbage. You look back at what DnD named gods all the way up to the 3rd Edition and they just used the names from historical mythos. I know who Zeus is why can't I just be a Wizard who worships Zeus???

because in whatever setting your wizard plays in who the fuck would know zeus (and if he does, does it mean it's related to greek? where does it end?).

maybe runequest is more your thing (unironically)? also means there's a good chance the group won't be total shit (which seems to be the main issue really) since it's not MUH PF/DND.

Only fucking Warhammer understands this. It's called KISS; Keep It Simple Stupid!

ironically modern warhammer is crap, so I dunno what your argument is here.

 

[Maude Snew]

The reason the wheelchair shit is so dumb is that there's never any reason for it in the setting when you can just drag your stumpy ass to the nearest church and have a priest fix you up good as new for a hundred bucks. Or have a Wizard grow you a new leg, I've heard this story about this guy who played a Wizard who focused on alteration magic and financed the group by doing magic plastic surgery for the rich in the setting. If they managed to get away from fucking Forgotten Realms for a second you could just literally get Warforged fucking legs. You can't reasonably project real issues into settings where people can and do gain literally godlike powers somewhat regularly. All this trans shit flies out the window too when you could buy a potion and grow a dick in a day and change back and forth at will.

Don't get me started on 5e even, it's the reason Baldurs Gate 3 is plainly inferior to Divinity Original Sin. Instead of having different interesting abilities at all point for any build you get to "walk" and "hit with sword", or not if that's too exciting for you. 4e would have made for much better video games and what did we get? Fucking Neverwinter that was just Cryptic MMO but with D&D names and worse because they couldn't let you make your characters look weird and fun in that license like they could for Champions and even Star Trek.

 

[Kulee Baba]

that sounds like midnight - which was published by FFG, which got bought by asmodee.
highly unlikely they ever gonna do anything with it since they're somewhat pozzed too, but it would be hilarious given the whole netrunner thing and asmodee is big enough to just tell wotc to shove it.


because in whatever setting your wizard plays in who the fuck would know zeus (and if he does, does it mean it's related to greek? where does it end?).

maybe runequest is more your thing (unironically)? also means there's a good chance the group won't be total shit (which seems to be the main issue really) since it's not MUH PF/DND.


ironically modern warhammer is crap, so I dunno what your argument is here.

My bad I didn't mean Warhammer Fantasy. I typed Warhammer and I just think Warhammer 40K.

As far as Warhammer Fantasy goes I only know that the Age of Sigmar drew the ire of Fa/tg/uys. But my understanding is that the Warhammer is games are not this convoluted "maybe everyone can be good" bullshit. Warhammer is everybody wants to kill their enemy. Simple as that.

 

[El Conserje]

Are we really discussing about the wheelchair situation? In a plain medieval setting, if you are crippled, you are very likely to die young unless you are royalty. The mere idea of going into adventures is dumb, no real group would take you to undergo dangerous situations, you would only be a liability. Moreover, in a magical setting, as other have said, there are a lot of ways to heal your legs, so there's no need to use a wheelchair in the first place... Maybe your character's goal is to collect the money to pay for a cure? Idk, I just sounds dumb.

As pointed out before, the beauty of this hobby is that you are under zero obligation to do that at your table. Don't like the wokeshit? Don't use it. Find a previous edition, or another RPG you like (there are more than just D&D, believe it or not) and roll with it. Go as underground as you need to. That's what my circle does.

And yes, you can say we can ignore everything that's going on and just stick to 2 or 3 edition, but the newer generations are more probably going to be trapped in the 5 edition and fall into the pitfall of genderfluid orc barbarians orgies when everything is sanitised and gayfied to the extreme.

Somewhere in the road, the people at WOTC forgot that D&D is about the thrill of exploring new and weird worlds, fighting monsters under real danger and exploring cultures inspired in old real civilizations. Now it's more like a Tumblr hung out and sharing furries OCs.

 

[Wormy]

And yes, you can say we can ignore everything that's going on and just stick to 2 or 3 edition, but the newer generations are more probably going to be trapped in the 5 edition and fall into the pitfall of genderfluid orc barbarians orgies when everything is sanitised and gayfied to the extreme.

That's the part where we have to stick our head out alittle bit and remind them "Hey, you don't HAVE to play it this way..."

Somewhere in the road, the people at WOTC forgot that D&D is about the thrill of exploring new and weird worlds, fighting monsters under real danger and exploring cultures inspired in old real civilizations. Now it's more like a Tumblr hung out and sharing furries OCs.

I wouldn't even give it THAT considering how they're just about straight into policing people's imaginations. Hell, we bought the new Legend of Five Rings edition SOLEY because "Players should not play the gender and ethnicity that they aren't already". Fuck you, we're doing our Japanese flavored sword and sorcery anyway.

My bad I didn't mean Warhammer Fantasy. I typed Warhammer and I just think Warhammer 40K.

As far as Warhammer Fantasy goes I only know that the Age of Sigmar drew the ire of Fa/tg/uys. But my understanding is that the Warhammer is games are not this convoluted "maybe everyone can be good" bullshit. Warhammer is everybody wants to kill their enemy. Simple as that.

I can't and won't say a word about Age of Player Betrayal, but Old World WH Fantasy wasn't quite as grim and edgelordy as 40k. Make no mistake, it's a brutal and hate filled setting by sword n sorcery standards still, but there are good guys. The Empire of Man actually does try to make life better as much as it can for it's people even while being militaristic as fuck, elects it's Emporer, and the Emporer Karl Franz is described as being a thinker and patron of arts as well as a military leader. It allows some freedom of religion even though the worship of Sigmar is clearly dominant politically. Hell, it even has a Martin Luther parallel who straight murders corrupt members of the Church.

 

[Dave.]

I have a legitimate question to ask, is there anyone who is unironically a fan of the newer D&D stuff that isn't a furry or tumblrite? I swear to god D&D is rife with furries for some reason.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

I have a legitimate question to ask, is there anyone who is unironically a fan of the newer D&D stuff that isn't a furry or tumblrite? I swear to god D&D is rife with furries for some reason.

I mean, people are fans of the newer stuff, to the degree that the newest stuff is just the older stuff with a slightly different coat of paint. Lathander is still the god of sweetness and light, Lloth is still a crazy man-hating cunt, wizards are still stupid-good. You can tune out the troon and furry shit (or not) to whatever degree you want. Wizards being faggots about the lore doesn't change your game unless you want it to.