Elden Ring

[BroccoliBrain]

Gael The Slave Knight comes to mind

Yeah. I think his was one of the Souls fights that finally edged towards a lot of flash and being a spectacle boss but I really liked that one. On the other hand, I’ve just beaten Radagon and Elden Beast and feel…maybe underwhelmed by them. There were bosses with so much surreal bullshit or rapid attacks that I was surprised that the last three bosses were as old school and slow as they were. I liked how Godfrey’s fight was a good old fashioned beatdown then he just tears his shirt off to maul you to death with his bare hands, I thought he was gonna go all mindfuck-crazy and power up with his lion Stand so seeing the fight turn into an MMA match made me lose my shit. I don’t know why ER is so funny to me like that. I mean, the whole Frenzied Flame cutscene could be a comedy with minor edits (but how can they have the Dung Eater but leave behind dung items so we can’t throw poop at other players anymore?)

I finally felt the feeling I longed for from the music while it began in Radagon’s fight then with the one after that but it’s still not quite scratching that itch? You’d think for the game about cycles, rings and repetition with huge mass to cover that they’d sneak one returning leitmotif in there but I didn’t hear a single one besides Radagon’s stripping a few things from the main menu that I can’t quite identify. My ears are also almost frustrated to hear tiny bits of the Elden Beast elsewhere - but only these very last moments of the game. If they weaved altered versions of those into the ambient tracks or something I’d feel a greater sense of interconnectedness and wonder but it’s like my feelings on this game: a lot of familiar beats being hit, a near familiar rhythm alongside a lot of new and interesting ones and things but they don’t quite align or end unexpectedly which leaves me strangely unsatisfied and seeking completion elsewhere. The credits are by far the weakest for basically being a handful of unique but uninteresting tracks held together by the most basic transitions.

 

[Mega Black]

I finished the game twice. The game late game is an unbalanced mess. I feel it's only getting the scores it got either because reviewers didn't play past the halfway point

Everything past Leyndel is pretty 'eeeh' to me, with the exception of Mohg. I really enjoyed his bossfight, and the area gave good Bloodborne vibes (minus the chunk off the left with the bugged dogs that do 1,000+ damage per bite and the birds that are so autistic they run off cliffs if you aggro them.)

The giant's mountain is boring as fuck, which is surprising because normally From fucking nails snow-levels, and consecrated snowfields made me want to kill myself. The endgame tree area was alright though, I didn't even think Mallenia or whatever the valkyrie bitch is called was as bad as people said she is. Aside from the waterfowl attack -- which is complete bullshit without bloodhound step -- I thought she was one of the more entertaining and 'fair' fights. Her health drain can be an issue, but I think it's meant more to scare you than actually be a hinderance.

It feels kind of like From got obsessed with spectacle when it came to the bosses, moreso than making them actually fun to fight. They're all the best the team has ever put out... when you look at them from a purely removed aesthetic and spectacle sense. They shoot out massive attacks, they're animated beautifully, and it's really engaging to watch someone dance around them and trade blows when they've mastered that particular fight. BUT they're full of input reading, gigantic AOE bullshit that's hard to read and dodge, and so aggressive that it feels like you never really get a chance to step back and absorb what they're doing so that you can learn their moves. Fun to watch, not fun to play. People say they're balanced around using mimic or ashes and I don't know if they really are, because I go from beating my head against them solo to chunking them instantly with a mimic summon. I think they're just weakly designed.

I thought Radagon was pretty good, and Elden Beast was cool too, so the game ended okay. I really wish we didn't have to beat Radagon each time we died to EB though, I understand that it's part of the challenge to survive both, but it soured me that each time I got fucking wrecked by that 5+ minute light tracking attack EB did I had like five minutes of Radagon to get through before facing him again.

I could take or leave crafting, I think the most use I got out of it was crafting holy bombs to get some skeletons out of my hair quickly in one of those catacombs with the chariots.

It's nice to be able to slap together items you need on the fly, whereas in other games you'd have to farm or head back to a merchant. It made getting through poisonous swamps less tedious, at least. I'd like to see it expanded a bit more, food buffs were a good start, fighting overworld monsters that are tough to get meals to put together to increase resistances and abilities wouldn't be out of place at all I feel, and might add good incentive to go out and do slapfights with monsters in the open world.

All in all, still my GOTY, doing my second playthrough as a faggot samurai. DLC is usually the best part of these games anyhow, so I'm looking forward to what From will release, especially since there's so many open-ended questions in the lore that could use filling. Give me my Godwyn bossfight From, you fuckers.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Comes off like that because the timing is flexible. To learn them, you basically have to intentionally stand there, doing nothing, and get hit by them - it's the only way to learn the exact timing at which the window to dodge is. Otherwise, the stance will end early to punish an attack, or end late in order to grab a dodge - based on whatever you did during the stance.

So far, and I'm not very far in, I try to use my old Dark Souls strategy of hugging the enemy/boss without attacking to learn what it does, it's the "don't be scared" strategy. It's very different now and the roll. is. so. slow. to come out. It feels like playing Street Fighter on coke.
Quick step is good though, it's starting to feel like that is what is replacing the old roll. I also don't like bosses doing ninja flippy combos because even if I (still early on) get safely away from them they execute the whole 10 hit combo chain over their in their corner while I watch. It feels silly.

It's a good game and I've had some exciting and tense moments, some areas are beautiful and interesting, but so far I really don't think it's 96% perfect or whatever the score is.

 

[Uncle June]

Can officially say that Radagons triple ground slam with an AOE that covers the entirety of the arena is the most profoundly gay attack in Soulsbourne.

I get that you're supposed to jump, but I NEVER avoid it entirely, it's like it tips my pinky toe and my level 170 character shrivels up and instantly dies. Guaranteed death sentence.

May end up summoning someone for this, something I've never done.

 

[Buddy Booth]

I didn't mind the forbidden lands, mostly because they are... concise, I guess? They don't overstay their welcome. I feel like a bigger area filled with catacombs/ruins would've annoyed me by that point in the game.

In general I feel like the pace of content throughout the game is really good. You get copypasted dungeons, yes, but they kinda peter out by the endgame before the novelty wears of and they just become annoying.
Also, I appreciate the fact that even though they reuse tilesets, 90% of smaller dungeons still feel unique in their own way.

The Haligtree looks cool, but isn't very complex at all. And the bottom floor with like, 3 revenants, the one where you get Marika's Soreseal, can eat a dick. And the tree spirit as well, but this time I cheesed it with insect swarm. Turns out, under the bark, they're filled with blood!

 

[Atomic Ant]

The creepy ass grandma bats' chanting is actually sensible Latin.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

There's no conflict with her motives either since she's pretty reluctant to share the Stars ending unless you turbo simp, so Melina might be the aspect she uses to loyally carry out her mission for Marika while she pursues her own goal as Ranni, or something.

Replying to an old post but now I’m getting a headache over this because this is what I assumed. Yet, I thought one of the more obvious lore things was that Marika broke the Ring to begin with because she thought the status quo was unacceptable, why would she send an aspect of herself to make the player fix it - and without reading guides they will most likely blunder into the Age of Fracture (doing fucking nothing) or Ranni’s ending (just because she’s hard to miss)? I can’t believe they pushed both of those two front and centre in the trailers prerelease with Ranni’s two faces practically everywhere and it doesn’t even get mentioned in the game. It’s the kind of thing that makes me wait for all the dataminers for an explanation.

Kind of disappointed with most of the endings. I’m all for speculation but this is pushing it into “write your own lore” territory because the gaps are so huge and every time I want play games I go to them to experience their story, not anyone else’s. It must be unsatisfying for a lot of people to get the ending they did, imagine getting the Goldmask ending without any help and you may or may not sincerely want that one because you think it’s the best or it just sounds cool, then all you do is sit in a chair and have to extrapolate an entire fanfiction based off of the skybox and the narrator’s tone of voice? Oh, but that’s intentional and FromSoft are geniuses and their worlds are thought provoking in their truest complexity.

 

[Gimmick Account]

Yeah good point. I figured she didn't have the whole plan, or going back to the status quo was the next best thing after the original plan (Miquella the Tree) didn't work out.
Since then I've started to wonder whether she's actually Marika (who fusion danced with Ranni or took her identity since Destined Death--which it would have had to have been to frustrate the Cursemark--doesn't sound like you should be able to reincarnate) given the hints that Marika used to like to run around in disguise all the time for various schemes. In that case I guess you'd have to assume she knows what she's doing.

Edit: also I've taken a break for now but I dug enough to be pretty sure the lore puzzle is legit and all the pieces are there with the gaps being very deliberately placed. But like some other recent-ish games I could name people have gotten territorial about their headcanon early on and won't even consider rethinking central assumptions so I don't expect the "community" to ever get anywhere.

The creepy ass grandma bats' chanting is actually sensible Latin.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=x57Pirh97Lc

Ya I almost posted that since I found it really interesting that they refer to themselves as Tarnished but it's not a real party if I'm the only one in the lore circlejerk

So far, and I'm not very far in, I try to use my old Dark Souls strategy of hugging the enemy/boss without attacking to learn what it does, it's the "don't be scared" strategy. It's very different now and the roll. is. so. slow. to come out. It feels like playing Street Fighter on coke.
Quick step is good though, it's starting to feel like that is what is replacing the old roll. I also don't like bosses doing ninja flippy combos because even if I (still early on) get safely away from them they execute the whole 10 hit combo chain over their in their corner while I watch. It feels silly.

It's a good game and I've had some exciting and tense moments, some areas are beautiful and interesting, but so far I really don't think it's 96% perfect or whatever the score is.

My strategy since DS2 has been to do this and just die to bosses on purpose at first, then put my summon down and study them for a while before even trying to fight seriously, at least for the first half of the game while you still feel kinda weak. It's always worked out well and is probably why I don't get frustrated.

I think I'm gonna have to try a stepping melee/parry dude for my next guy just for the Bloodborne fix.

 

[Atomic Ant]

Ya I almost posted that since I found it really interesting that they refer to themselves as Tarnished but it's not a real party if I'm the only one in the lore circlejerk

is there more to the opera bats being tarnished?

 

[Gimmick Account]

Is there some other stuff on that?

Yeah it actually makes perfect sense under the interpretation that everyone is a descendant of dragons who attained human form (or their various offshoots, failed bloodlines, evolutionary throwbacks, or other assorted mutants) with the Tarnished "losing their grace" and becoming fully mortal.
It's all in the thread already but this mainly comes from omen item/Remembance descriptions and interviews with Miyazaki where he stressed something about the distinction between Tarnished and the People of the Erdtree having golden eyes (which you can regain from Dragon Communions).

I hadn't really thought about it in ER because it's a videogamey borderline thing but I always appreciated how the rest of the Dark Souls series actually had an explanation in the setting for you and enemies respawning: virtually everything is undead/hollow or otherwise immortal and in a state of practically ageless decay so for all you know every time you die/rest it could be a century later and it makes sense most of the stuff you killed would be walking around again just like you.
So when I saw that video I thought it was neat that monsters might very well be graceless/Tarnished and follow similar rules to the player since they wouldn't get eaten by the tree while subject to the same immortality field it projects or however that's supposed to work.

Edit: ok I wish I hadn't trimmed your original post now. No I don't think there's anything else on the bat things anywhere, they don't even have an ash afaik

 

[BlazikenLover]

It's one of those things where having expectations from the previous games kind of fucks you a bit. I'd be interested to see how first-time players feel about it if we could find any untainted by the memes.

That's something that I have been thinking for the past couple weeks, that maybe first timers aren't doing as badly due to how they approach the game (using summons/ashes, bows, not scoffing at magic/miracles/consumables, basically no preconcived notions of the series). Meanwhile the veteran may stubbornly try the same boss over and over by using a melee weapon and trying to roll through all attacks (since this is how you play souls games else you didn't beat the game) then get mad when they react a second too soon/late and die.

I hated Malenia because in general I despise healing bosses, and her omnislash being a circle around is in my opinion pretty stupid but I had zero trouble on her first phase since I kept my distance and spammed swarm of flies (I knew how stupid bleed is in general and heard she wasn't immune), she would switch aggro between me and the mimic. The second phase did give me trouble with her enhanced omnislash and her faster combos, I even considered not using ashes at all since I felt they were being too detrimental (she heals from attacks after all) but then I realized how little time I had to cast while having her on my face at all times.
While I don't like the instant reaction times/input reading enemies do, I think the bigger problem is how tiny the windows to attack are, the fights drawn out and become dull, sure satisfying to dodge some flashy attack, but after the 30th time and with the boss only being at half HP it becomes frustrating. I keep thinking of the 3rd Vergil fight in DMC 3 because he is also a fast Katana wielder, some attacks were hard to dodge for me and I had to reattempt the fight a bunch of times but it was far more engaging than any ER boss because your time dodging attacks isn't that much more than your time attacking it.
Not to mention how it sucks for heavy melee builds that poise is nonexistant and hyper armor on colossal weapons seems to be gone, just why?
I wonder if this style of boss would be far more tolerable with the healing mechanic from bloodborne, allowing you to be more aggressive without your bar deleted after a mistep.

 

[FunPosting101]

I wonder if this style of boss would be far more tolerable with the healing mechanic from bloodborne, allowing you to be more aggressive without your bar deleted after a mistep.

Basically all of the last quarter so of the game would be much better with the retaliate and heal thing from Bloodborne added. It would also at least marginally improve the rest of the game as well, which tells me that the people complaining about Elden Ring being Bloodborne mixed with Dark Souls have a point.

I mean, I still love this game to bits; but a lot of the stuff after Leyndell(and a few of the things before)are not well balanced at all. I'm also more than a little annoyed by the anime character bosses(Hi Mohg, and others whose names I've forgotten at the moment) I've fought so far, and I'm not even at the Malenia boss fight yet.

 

[Gimmick Account]

Yeah the Rally healing mechanic is the best addition in the series and I want it in all of them. We gotta conclude they've sandboxed it into "not core souls" or want to hold it back for a sequel I guess.

Malenia's great rune would make me want to actually play a full NG+ if they didn't fucking take it away


edit:

 

[Urbanmech]

That's something that I have been thinking for the past couple weeks, that maybe first timers aren't doing as badly due to how they approach the game (using summons/ashes, bows, not scoffing at magic/miracles/consumables, basically no preconcived notions of the series). Meanwhile the veteran may stubbornly try the same boss over and over by using a melee weapon and trying to roll through all attacks (since this is how you play souls games else you didn't beat the game) then get mad when they react a second too soon/late and die.

I hated Malenia because in general I despise healing bosses, and her omnislash being a circle around is in my opinion pretty stupid but I had zero trouble on her first phase since I kept my distance and spammed swarm of flies (I knew how stupid bleed is in general and heard she wasn't immune), she would switch aggro between me and the mimic. The second phase did give me trouble with her enhanced omnislash and her faster combos, I even considered not using ashes at all since I felt they were being too detrimental (she heals from attacks after all) but then I realized how little time I had to cast while having her on my face at all times.
While I don't like the instant reaction times/input reading enemies do, I think the bigger problem is how tiny the windows to attack are, the fights drawn out and become dull, sure satisfying to dodge some flashy attack, but after the 30th time and with the boss only being at half HP it becomes frustrating. I keep thinking of the 3rd Vergil fight in DMC 3 because he is also a fast Katana wielder, some attacks were hard to dodge for me and I had to reattempt the fight a bunch of times but it was far more engaging than any ER boss because your time dodging attacks isn't that much more than your time attacking it.
Not to mention how it sucks for heavy melee builds that poise is nonexistant and hyper armor on colossal weapons seems to be gone, just why?
I wonder if this style of boss would be far more tolerable with the healing mechanic from bloodborne, allowing you to be more aggressive without your bar deleted after a mistep.

The Mimic Tear is too stupid for Malenia. I found myself using Black Knife Tiche more than the Mimic due to Tiche being more defensive.

 

[Alcatraz]

Yeah. I think his was one of the Souls fights that finally edged towards a lot of flash and being a spectacle boss but I really liked that one

Gael is only that ridiculously flashy because;
A)Dark Souls had 3 games to build up the mythos of the actual Dark Soul itself
B)Gael literally consumed it and became some unfathomable abomination with unrestrained power.
For the series chronological final encounter to end all battles, it served its purpose.

I could take or leave crafting,

I love the crafting. Items actually being useful beyond a novelty makes me feel like I really am some dumbass human being a pragmatist this time around. Builds centered around bows and throwing items seem feasible, and using a pot, perfume, or one of the many utility items sells it. That, and the secret effects most of these items have-- like those poison spewing bulbs (not the flowers) chain-exploding if you inflict poison. The miranda flowers also completely stop spewing poison when set on fire. Stone enemies like Imps and watchdogs also go ballistic and aggro other enemies when hit with Crystal Darts, etc

Now, normally, the argument could be made that these things could just be done with a magic build of some kind. Which is great, but what about the people that don't want to do any magic? I appreciate there's reasoning in universe as well. The Cuckoo knights having those magic rocks they throw for DIY spells puts anyone that's not a magic-bastard on an even playing field.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

I hadn't really thought about it in ER because it's a videogamey borderline thing but I always appreciated how the rest of the Dark Souls series actually had an explanation in the setting for you and enemies respawning: virtually everything is undead/hollow or otherwise immortal and in a state of practically ageless decay so for all you know every time you die/rest it could be a century later and it makes sense most of the stuff you killed would be walking around again just like you.
So when I saw that video I thought it was neat that monsters might very well be graceless/Tarnished and follow similar rules to the player since they wouldn't get eaten by the tree while subject to the same immortality field it projects or however that's supposed to work.

There's a chance they're not referring to themselves, they could simply be repeating a song learned from elsewhere, like parrots.
I thought everything including non-Tarnished keep getting reincarnated through the Erdtree by default - which is why Destined Death is such a big deal. To put it another way I mean everything does get eaten by the tree, including trash mobs, and return to whatever they were doing without much divine interference because they're unimportant. If random octopi at the beach can get smacked hard enough to reveal the gold spot in their mouths for a critical hit I think that points towards things being 'golden' by default unless otherwise specified. I feel like the whole theme of gold and the choice to call us Tarnished really highlights how it's kind of 'rules for thee and not for me', pure gold does not ever tarnish but anyone in ER's world can have their nice gold status revoked by the powers that be to get fucked over by the fate they're left to.

I love the crafting. Items actually being useful beyond a novelty makes me feel like I really am some dumbass human being a pragmatist this time around. Builds centered around bows and throwing items seem feasible, and using a pot, perfume, or one of the many utility items sells it. That, and the secret effects most of these items have-- like those poison spewing bulbs (not the flowers) chain-exploding if you inflict poison. The miranda flowers also completely stop spewing poison when set on fire. Stone enemies like Imps and watchdogs also go ballistic and aggro other enemies when hit with Crystal Darts, etc

My only problem with crafting is that they really should've made ingredients purchasable. Maybe not ultra rare ones that make sense to have no sellers but when I've got no idea where to farm goods (where farming means a trip back to the nearest grace to reset) and cookbooks are all over the place, I found myself not being able to have my basic bitch firebombs until I was fairly high level. Just let me buy firebombs for 100 a pop, I'm not breaking the game with it. But yeah, I feel Gael's fight is justifiably stylish, even the seemingly random thunder made sense like the very sky couldn't hold itself together anymore in such a fight at the end of times, not like Mohg and his childish I WIN fork.

edit: god damnit if only one of the mausoleums in the Snowfield didn't bug out, I want to dupe the Elden Beast's Rememberance ffs

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Gael is only that ridiculously flashy because;
A)Dark Souls had 3 games to build up the mythos of the actual Dark Soul itself
B)Gael literally consumed it and became some unfathomable abomination with unrestrained power.
For the series chronological final encounter to end all battles, it served its purpose.

Idk, Gael felt like a letdown and I found the previous dlc boss (Freya?) more engaging. It doesn't help I expected another super boss after finishing the two dlc rather than a burning church. DS3 really dropped the ball in the dlc (and I'm still salty Sekiro didn't receive any).

 

[BlazikenLover]

Yeah the Rally healing mechanic is the best addition in the series and I want it in all of them. We gotta conclude they've sandboxed it into "not core souls" or want to hold it back for a sequel I guess.

Malenia's great rune would make me want to actually play a full NG+ if they didn't fucking take it away


edit:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=V2XGp5ix8HE

You don't get to keep great runes in NG+? That's so fucking stupid

 

[FunPosting101]

So, I'm at the Malenia fight and what I mentioned about anime boss fights before is true a 1000 times over here. This specific boss needs to be beaten with the nerf bat hard.

 

[Gimmick Account]

I feel like the whole theme of gold and the choice to call us Tarnished really highlights how it's kind of 'rules for thee and not for me', pure gold does not ever tarnish but anyone in ER's world can have their nice gold status revoked by the powers that be to get fucked over by the fate they're left to.

Yeah I think what you're saying re: resurrection is the default idea it gives you but I ended up leaning away from it with the later implications that there's something sinister going on with gold stuff/tree eatings. It's true that everything can have various gold effects (like the glowing eyes for the random rune bonus) but at the same there's gold-flecked excrement everywhere so it's just as likely that monsters are trying to regain their grace--its diminishment is what the bats are lamenting after all--by consuming remains. Now that I think of it there's a spot in Mt. Gelmir full of soldiers eating their former comrades which stood out as odd at the time.

And on calling us Tarnished specifically that seems to take on more connotations if you put the Remembrances/Golden Lineage stuff together. YMMV though.

Totally possible the bats were taught to sing by someone since we know nothing about them, but on the other hand a good chunk of monsters throughout the entire franchise have always been some sorta mutant human (even stuff that's not remotely humanoid tends to have vestigial arms and a tiny face hidden somewhere) so as a theme it's equally likely they're intelligent, especially given the explicit references to devolution etc in descriptions this time around.

Edit:
also thinking about eating/dung, this could be the thread connecting the scarabs and Dung Eater I've been wondering about. Not that any is suggested but the scarabs themselves seem like a big unexplained deal with all this magic poo about so it seemed like there should be.
Also miscellaneous thoughts: it kind of explains why every assorted thing wants to kill you since it looks like you get your gatorade flask in the intro which is what graces you up in the first place, and the glowing-eye rune bonus reminded me a lot of what Bloodborne did instead of bloodstains sometimes which is at least consistent with the idea.