Elliot Page / Ellen Page - Former actress, starred in Juno. Turned into a pooner and divorced her wife because being a lesbian was not boosting her career anymore. Receives a daily dose of asspatting from Hollywood. Likes to show off her "male" body using fake abdominals.

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This was years before she trooned out. I suppose, yes, she could have trooned out in response to unresolved trauma from that incident but this doesn't sound like a rape or sexual assault to me. This sounds a lot like a Paz de la Huerta 'I didn't want to have sex with that man but felt I had to because of the implications' type deal. Which is not rape. Not from a legal standpoint anyway.

Her trooning out to me sounds like the result of a whole host of unresolved psychological issues and self-hatred, rather than as the result of one incident in particular
Rape is a destructive experience which changes who you are and how you see yourself, of course it has effects years down the road. The only revealing comment about her transition that she's made is that she didn't want to be an old woman; it's easy to read that as not wanting to become physically vulnerable and insecure in her body, possibly/probably because she's been overpowered before. Other people interpret it as not wanting to become irrelevant due to hollywood ageism, and that it's about her continuing desire for fame and public relevance. The whole thread is basically people arguing that their personal interpretation is right, and is probably going to stay like that which is fine, both sides are equally plausible and probably both inextricably true.

People here to argue it's implausible that a five foot tall former child star in Hollywood , who started at 10 away from the supervision of her parents, could have been raped or preyed on are literally just using the thread to political sperg about your personal view that real rape is super rare, actually, and most women just aren't trying hard enough to say no. She is not even the average woman, she was literally groomed from childhood and possibly earlier to not have boundaries and to not say no, because that is how hollywood works and how you make the most money out of baby-faced child stars who have a potentially, and in her case limited shelf life.
 
People here to argue it's implausible that a five foot tall former child star in Hollywood , who started at 10 away from the supervision of her parents, could have been raped or preyed on are literally just using the thread to political sperg about your personal view that real rape is super rare, actually, and most women just aren't trying hard enough to say no
Couldn't both things be true? Maybe she was groomed from an early age (I can believe the penpal stalker fan story) to have no boundaries, but at the same time some of us have been jaded by the bar for sexual misconduct getting ridiculously lowered and think that someone becoming a rapist when the woman in question never said no but didn't want it and was simply too nervous to say it is a little ridiculous. You could say it's a mentally broken person so that's why they acted like that, but how can the other person know this when they weren't there when the trauma took place? Is it really their responsibility?
 
Couldn't both things be true? Maybe she was groomed from an early age (I can believe the penpal stalker fan story) to have no boundaries, but at the same time some of us have been jaded by the bar for sexual misconduct getting ridiculously lowered and think that someone becoming a rapist when the woman in question never said no but didn't want it and was simply too nervous to say it is a little ridiculous. You could say it's a mentally broken person so that's why they acted like that, but how can the other person know this when they weren't there when the trauma took place? Is it really their responsibility?

Yes? It is your responsibility to check that the person you're about to have sex with wants to have sex with you? Lack of no is not the same as a yes and people somehow understand this in every other context. Like through body language.

The implied other side of 'and then I didn't feel like I could say no' is a guy that stopped paying attention to her once he became certain sex would happen because how did they get that far in the first place otherwise? how do you get that far and not notice when she stops responding or is nervous? because you don't care and you want sex even if it, to you, is starfish sex.

I never said it was implausible. Just that the specific instance cited doesn't pass muster

If you ate someone out and they just laid there and were completely silent the whole time, you're telling me you wouldn't find that weird as fuck and be put off at all? It was also a guy who acted like he wanted to make sure she got home safe, and didn't reveal his actual intentions until he was already in her house, where they were alone together. If she had started yelling no, would there have even been anyone there to hear her? It's normal for the actors to be escorted home after late shoots.
 
The implied other side of 'and then I didn't feel like I could say no' is a guy that stopped paying attention to her once he became certain sex would happen because how did they get that far in the first place otherwise? how do you get that far and not notice when she stops responding or is nervous? because you don't care and you want sex even if it, to you, is starfish sex.
Okay, but you can still say no. I could understand if they had a gun to their head or it was heavily implied that if they moved the guy would beat them to death or something, but we don't know that, and to assume that's the case every time is a little disingenuous. The reality of life is that you're responsible for yourself and can't expect people to act the way you want them to by doing nothing.

Ok, last thing I'm saying about this, sorry for getting off-topic. Was just trying to kill time while waiting for the book rundown :'(. Unless we've already read all of it and it just ends abruptly?
 
Okay, but you can still say no. I could understand if they had a gun to their head or it was heavily implied that if they moved the guy would beat them to death or something, but we don't know that, and to assume that's the case every time is a little disingenuous. The reality of life is that you're responsible for yourself and can't expect people to act the way you want them to by doing nothing.

Ok, last thing I'm saying about this, sorry for getting off-topic. Was just trying to kill time while waiting for the book rundown :'(. Unless we've already read all of it and it just ends abruptly?
I think maybe for a lot of more nervous women they're already intimidated at that point and they're afraid to turn whats gonna be a rotten experience into something truly horrific and violent, even if being assertive and simply getting loud and telling the dude to fuck off is all they really need to do.

Its hard to understand when you're (for instance) 6'3 and 230 how intimidating some guys could be to a 5'1" or even a 5'7" woman, especially a neurotic one, especially when you're alone.
As a man (especially if you're a big guy) you've normally got a fair to decent chance of fronting down a lot of tense situations, even if you're not really a violent type.
I'm not gonna pretend I understand it, I just figure theres degrees to everything.

It's right though this thread is getting way off track can we go back to shitting on the crazy woman now?
 
Chapter 12, Roller Derby. AKA. Good lord, can you get some real problems, Ellen?

We start heavy this one, in this chapter we get a little deep into the problems that Ellen was having due to being a lesbian and then, problems with her girlfriend at the time and gender as a whole.

At one point when she finished doing Juno, for a slight moment, she considered the idea of retiring from acting altogether. Which in my opinion should've been a wise move in the first place. And oh no, it was because those evil nazis in Hollywood would make her wear dresses and and makeup, oh the horror! So much so that she wanted to kill herself, she doesn't have a problem admitting that.

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And it really got into her. To the point of being disturbing.

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I really can't stand her melodramatic descriptions of the anguish of wearing a dress. You're doing a photoshoot, not going to a fucking concentration camp. Just what is that train of thought?

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And here we have the first instance of Ellen punching herself to self-harm, like, really showing the trans joy early. And showing the schizo ramblings, some people here have talked about how that voice is just a dramatic tone for the book, but I don't really see it that way, if she's punching herself to knock out the voice that was stalking her. That's psychotic, no matter how much you try to see it.

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She ended backing out of the film, but don't worry, she got work fast when having a work with the other equally Hollywood fuckup, Drew Barrymore, in her debut as a director in the movie, Whip It. A role that she would like to do and film.

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She liked playing the role of Bliss, since identified herself with the character, and the love they had for roller blading. She described roller blading as being greater than the glamour of Hollywood. I can see the passion when she writes about it, it seems that it's one of the few things that bring her actual happiness.

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But problems once again emerged from doing the film, first, she was dating Paula at the time, and couldn't do much to visit her, or Paula visiting Ellen, she had a tight schedule and couldn't make it. And this only furthered her stress and depression.

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And she pretty much felt how it is the average experience on living in the shithole that is Los Angeles for a long period of time, it started to mess with her head a little bit more.

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But then she had an idea to bring Paula more closer to her, she would bring Paula and hire her as an assistant, so in that case she would make an income for staying with her and doing long travels with Ellen. Eventually they would have a chihuahua named Patti.

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And Ellen though that she had all figured out by this lifestyle...

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After starting living together in a house in Hollywood, the problems would start sooner than later. She would start feeling the horrible business that is having a personal life in Hollywood as an actress, and being eaten alive by paparazzis, not to mention that her depression was starting to get worse. And Paula was in a position of not knowing anyone but Ellen in that place, kind of a unconventional place to be when the only person you know is the neurotic crazy lesbian.

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And Paula also was not feeling comfortable with the idea on her being closeted all the time and feeling that Ellen was hiding her from her own family, but apparently Ellen was the one most suffering there because "she was trying to make this work".

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And this only got worse when Paula's parents got into the picture, leading up to a very awkward exchange of words with her mother.

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Followed by Ellen again sperging about them hateful cis bigots who got revered for interpreting gay and troon characters and she didn't anything for doing it. Apparently it was told by their managers to not talk about her personal life. And apparently their word was a lot more important than what her supposed loved one had to say, she really didn't think this through while writing it?

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And here... I've got nothing to say, she's 100% right in this statement. Literally the first time that I agree on her in this fucking book. I'm certain that there are a lot of other actors that went to this path, although they didn't ended up being a drugged up, mutilated, plastic fuckup like Ellen.

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And she's still trying to connect rollerblading with queerness for some reason.

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Then, she talks about her experience filming Whip It, apparently, this was a pretty fun experience to her and the girls filming. Another good time for her doing a movie.

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But then again, she was having too much fun with the girls, and for some reason she wouldn't feel like belonged with the group.

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And then, she started having a friendship with this girl called Kristen (Adolfi). To the point of them having fun making a whole musical with just the two of them called the Unidentified Beast. And once again she felt the connection of being a friend.

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And when she had this level of confidence between her and Alia Shawkat. The truth would finally come out of her lips, she really hated living in LA.

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And for a short period of time, she dissociated from the situation. Another normal thing when saying something so shocking to her friends.

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She went more personal, saying that she was feeling miserable.

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And she finally opens up, I get the feeling that she was opening up also to the reader while describing her situation in that moment.

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Then she broke up with Paula, feeling that this feeling would stop. But it never did, putting her in a more miserable situation that she started with, to the point when she finally was appointed to a therapist.

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And the experience went as well as you might expect. And the last frontier was assuming her gender. I get the feeling that her therapist was a libtard. The chapter ends with her having to decide if talking about her gender or not.

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And she's still trying to connect rollerblading with queerness for some reason.
Dude, some black enby alien hamplanet got a successful Kickstarter to get the go-ahead to make a "qweer~" magical girl roller derby cartoon. These people are absolutely nuts about it probably because of the Women's Flat Track Derby Association even though children are more into rollerskating than adults.
 
People have already pointed this out, but boy this thing needed an editor in the worst way.

My lack of motivating alarming, my desire for nothing too big.

I was hurting, the closet too much

These are not complete thoughts, this is precocious teenager-esque writing. This is not how a thirty-something year old woman is supposed to communicate. I think she got mentally stuck in her teens somewhere.
 
These are not complete thoughts, this is precocious teenager-esque writing. This is not how a thirty-something year old woman is supposed to communicate. I think she got mentally stuck in her teens somewhere.
Some Kiwi mentioned it elsewhere, said that women who were molested/sexually assaulted are emotionally stunted at the age they experienced such trauma. Not sure how true that is, though it would make sense with Ellen here.
 
Some Kiwi mentioned it elsewhere, said that women who were molested/sexually assaulted are emotionally stunted at the age they experienced such trauma. Not sure how true that is, though it would make sense with Ellen here.
You're also supposed to become stunted at the age you become famous, and Ellen experienced sexual assault and fame through Juno so double whammy. She would have been 18-20 though and she does come off a bit younger than that, more like 15/16.

Stars and their 'assistants' or personal trainers is one of the oldest hollywood tricks in the book that would be very obvious to anyone in the industry so that would seem incredibly naive if I didn't think she was being a bit dishonest. I think she thinks she can't admit that she used or wanted to use a hollywood strategy while simultaneously wanting to criticise Hollywood's homophobia from a moral high ground.

She said that Brett Ratner (X Men 3) was the guy that outed her at work, and he was accused of sexually inappropriate behaviour by many women on set (not including Ellen). However in googling it, I came up with this interview where she was asked about the allegations against the previous X-men director, Bryan Singer, where she says it's nothing to do with her:

TIME: I read what you’ve said about the allegations against Bryan Singer, and I wonder what’s it like to be asked about those accusations…
Ellen Page:
When it has nothing to do with me?
TIME: Yeah.
Page: It’s part of this world and it’s part of what we do and it’s the same with Woody [Allen, who directed Page in To Rome with Love] or whatever. I’ve worked with this person and I happen to be in the movie that’s coming out right now, so of course someone will ask about it. What could I possibly say about it? These are accusations and it’s awful and we’ll find out when we find out, when the process happens. I do think that all of Bryan’s situation aside, I do think there is a systemic problem. Any time young people are in places with people of power around, I do think that’s an important thing to talk about.
TIME: Just in general?
Page: In general and in Hollywood, yeah.
TIME: Is that something you’ve experienced personally?
Page: I grew up on film sets, so yes. I’ve never had any situation that is anything too, you know, but people are creepy and try to manipulate young people and luckily I never had anything too drastic happen.

'Nothing to do with me' obviously a very different position than present-day moral crusader Ellen would never take, although I do understand why she would at the time. 2014 Ellen probably wouldn't have jumped to believe Jussie Smollett. I had no idea she'd worked with Woody Allen - is she going to talk about that in the book? how's she going to address that now from the top of the progressive stack?

Nobody start again: when she says that nothing 'too drastic' happened she is either (a) lying to save face or (b) discounting what did happen to her because it was oral sex and not penile penetration. 'nothing too drastic' is not the same as 'nothing ever happened to me'.

The 19th century film she didn't make is Jane Eyre. Considering she takes the character's mindset home with her, if she had been able to get over the corset it might have been a good one for her because it's all about quiet resilience when the odds are stacked against you and your opportunities are limited by being a woman/'the weaker sex'. Me personally I wouldn't have wanted to sign up to star in a romance opposite Michael Fassbender, or watch tiny Ellen and Fassbender together. Ellen was replaced by Mia Wasikowska.

I also think that she probably never read Jane Eyre because you think she'd be projecting Linda all over evil aunt Sarah Reed or Mrs Scatcherd and herself on Jane.

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This is the X Men 3 Cannes dress. No idea who that guy is and can't find any references. I don't know about her gender, but I can imagine not wanting to truss yourself up like a piece of meat to go to Cannes (famous for celebrity sex work). People will look at you in a certain way even if that's not why you're there.
 
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