Inactive Elliot Rodger - The Supreme Gentleman

[Cwckifan]

He really couldn't understand why girls didn't just go up to him and offer him sex, but it wasn't out of arrogance or pure narcissism.

(His whinyfesto is actually full of examples of him having low selfesteem.)

This is allegedly true of most narcissists

 

[teheviltwin]

Either way, he sure as hell wasn't hurting for attention. If his mother actually took the time to actually raise him, instead of just putting him under the care of nannies before shipping him off to boarding school at the age of 10, then she obviously had no shortage of love for him. Really, is it so crazy that any parent would want to give their kids the world? This guy was just crazy, and that's hardly anyone's fault

Oh he is definitely crazy. And he was probably born with some shitty wiring/chemical imbalance/hormonal problems. But there are millions of people with those issues who don't think they're entitled to the moon on a stick.

When I read through his whinefesto I got a very different picture. He was sent to an all-boys private prep boarding school at age 3-4. His behaviour there was obviously obnoxious and not controlled by his parents.

I remember one funny incident when we were taking school pictures. They forced us to sit cross-legged, which I hated doing, so I absolutely refused to sit that way for the picture. The teachers eventually conceded, and the picture was taken with me being the only one sitting differently.

Now, this will not have gone without at least a conversation with the parents. Possibly even with a threat of expulsion or refusal of admittance into primary school (not that it would have been an issue as he was in the US by then) if the child was not made to behave. It's a prep boarding school. Every kid there had parents far richer and more powerful than some aspiring film director and George Lucas's ex-girlfriend. They don't allow disruptive children to continue on in their school system. And yet Elliot's issues weren't addressed until he was much older and they were considerably more obvious.

Giving a kid what they want and what they need are vastly different things.

He really couldn't understand why girls didn't just go up to him and offer him sex, but it wasn't out of arrogance or pure narcissism.

(His whinyfesto is actually full of examples of him having low selfesteem.)

Narcissists know they are full of shit. They positively loath anything that shines light on their imperfections because it shatters the delusion. They have awful self-esteem and create the faux self-confidence as a type of armour. Most of it is sub-concious. It's a bit of a misnomer as Narcissus truly loved himself.

 

[DykesDykesChina]

Just imagine the can of worms that would have been opened if he had been a brony.

 

[teheviltwin]

It's too soon to say if a similar issue happened with Elliot. So far, it seems like his parents were solid people that did the best they could with greater-than-average resources. However, it's not uncommon for shitty parent stories to surface years later, when the initial drama fades.

I just find myself pondering how much time you spend with your kid when you send him off to boarding school at 3-4 years old. Summer, Christmas and Easter holidays with the occasional week for half-term... And then he was being looked after by his grandmother... If the mother and grandmother are at home and the family still feels the needed to have their kid boarded then I think their priorities were elsewhere.

 

[Cwckifan]

Oh he is definitely crazy. And he was probably born with some shitty wiring/chemical imbalance/hormonal problems. But there are millions of people with those issues who don't think they're entitled to the moon on a stick.

And sometimes, they just are. Like I said before, what about Cho, Harris, Holmes, and Lanza? None of those guys were spoiled rich kids, and they were every bit the delusional violent narcissists this guy was. There's nothing particularly wrong with a little spoiling, and all folks will be entitled brats at some point in their lives, especially as children. While this obviously wasn't helped by the constant accommodating of his exasperated parents, the damage was already done by the time it became obvious that his parents were throwing money at his problems so he would be placated. Really, they did everything they could short of chaining him to a radiator in the basement, and it's all they could do. If anything, applying discipline earlier would probably have resulted in him killing them when he was a teen. This guy was broken from birth, and anything short of putting him down was just delaying the inevitable

 

[teheviltwin]

And sometimes, they just are. Like I said before, what about Cho, Harris, Holmes, and Lanza? None of those guys were spoiled rich kids, and they were every bit the delusional violent narcissists this guy was. There's nothing particularly wrong with a little spoiling, and all folks will be entitled brats at some point in their lives, especially as children. While this obviously wasn't helped by the constant accommodating of his exasperated parents, the damage was already done by the time it became obvious that his parents were throwing money at his problems so he would be placated. Really, they did everything they could short of chaining him to a radiator in the basement, and it's all they could do. If anything, applying discipline earlier would probably have resulted in him killing them when he was a teen. This guy was broken from birth, and anything short of putting him down was just delaying the inevitable

I'm just saying it's a bit of both and that incidents like this:

Already a world traveler, I went on a trip to Spain with my parents and my parent's friends Patrick and Lupe. It was the fourth country I've been to at such a young age. We stayed in an exquisite castle-like house that I believe was owned by a friend of ours. The house had a tower that I was extremely curious about. At one point, my parents and their friends ventured up to the top of it, but they made me stay below because I was too young, I was sorely disappointed. As they were climbing the tower I went outside to look at the cacti surrounding the house. These cacti also sparked my curiosity, and I foolishly decided to touch a cactus. I ended up getting cactus needles all over my hand, and it took a long time for my mother to remove them.

Might be indicative of a lack of bonding as well as nature dealing him a shitty set of genes. He was 4 years old at the time. I can not imagine any circumstances where my mother would have left me to wander around a strange house and garden in a foreign country alone at age 4.

There is a big difference between pampering your beloved child and giving the kid what they want so they will shut up and we can do our thing.

 

[Protoman]

Human beings are both nature and nurture. You aren't preordained to end up any way in particular by your birth, and your circumstances depend partially on what your head has in it on a natural level. People are complex machines and the "why" to a tragedy isn't always as simple as we'd like it to be.

If chris was just an autistic individual, he wouldn't have been the beloved lolcow he is today. His autism interacted with his terrible parenting and constant reinforcement of his delusional levels of self importance led to him being the hilarious individual he is today. If the only problem Elliot had was genetics and he'd grown up in a totally perfect home he probably would have ended up differently too. There are plenty of people with NPD who aren't crazy murderers, just assholes.

There's a lot more to people than either of those things, and trying to oversimplify the entirety of what makes a person who they are will never give us any real answers.

 

[Cwckifan]

I'm just saying it's a bit of both and that incidents like this:



Might be indicative of a lack of bonding as well as nature dealing him a shitty set of genes. He was 4 years old at the time. I can not imagine any circumstances where my mother would have left me to wander around a strange house and garden in a foreign country alone at age 4.

There is a big difference between pampering your beloved child and giving the kid what they want so they will shut up and we can do our thing.

Huh? He clearly states in that passage that he was upset because his mother kept him back.

 

[teheviltwin]

Huh? He clearly states in that passage that he was upset because his mother kept him back.

Yes but I'm not looking at what he says. We're talking about a guy who is half Asian but says that full Asians (like his mother) are hideous. He says that he is perfect and genetically superior... Yet he was born weighing 5.4 lbs and underperformed physically and mentally his whole life.

Look at it without his bias perspective. He was left unsupervised in a strange house by all of the adults and ended up injured whilst still a toddler.

I'm not sure what you think I'm referring to by parental bonding. It doesn't mean that they didn't get on very well. It means that his parents did not provide the right environment for a big oxytocin party. Feeling safe, being cared for, held when you cry, well fed, warm etc. Now I don't doubt that he was fed, watered and had all the shiny things that a child could desire. I do doubt that he was given decent supervision and was held when he cried by his parents especially when he was at a boarding school by 4.

If a child's immediate family/carers don't provide these things the kid is exponentially more likely to have anti-social tendencies. It's not a good survival mechanism to bond with your family if you can't trust them to watch your back.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3720131/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12121210

 

[Artard]

I'm just saying it's a bit of both and that incidents like this:

Dude, what? That's called being a tourist. My father was stationed in Texas for a minute when we were kids. Sitting in a cactus was a rite of passage because we're fucking flatlanders. (So was bringing a gila monster home as a pet but my brother was weird.) I also touched a hot motorcycle and burned my finger and it wasn't because I lacked parental bonding but because I'd never done that before and gosh I found out why.

 

[c-no]

Well, I just saw Elliot Rodgers on television. Now I wonder what the news would say on who is to blame.

 

[teheviltwin]

Dude, what? That's called being a tourist. My father was stationed in Texas for a minute when we were kids. Sitting in a cactus was a rite of passage because we're fucking flatlanders. (So was bringing a gila monster home as a pet but my brother was weird.) I also touched a hot motorcycle and burned my finger and it wasn't because I lacked parental bonding but because I'd never done that before and gosh I found out why.

Your parents shipped you off to be raised by Hogwarts minus the charm? So if your parents left you alone unsupervised near a patch of giant hogweed in Britain that'd be totally cool? Did your parents hand you off to whatever other adults they could find/pay to raise you?

I've touched hot stuff and got burned but it was because I ran off, or my parents looked away for a minute. Not because they fucked off without explaining what a cactus is... You know we don't have those in England right?

 

[Artard]

Your parents shipped you off to be raised by Hogwarts minus the charm? So if your parents left you alone unsupervised near a patch of giant hogweed in Britain that'd be totally cool? Did your parents hand you off to whatever other adults they could find/pay to raise you?

I've touched hot stuff and got burned but it was because I ran off, or my parents looked away for a minute. Not because they fucked off without explaining what a cactus is... You know we don't have those in England right?

You know we don't have Cactii in the midwest too, right? I'd never seen one. Because I was five. My brother hadn't seen one either because he was 10. It's the kind of thing kids do.

As for being "left alone unsupervised," you're extrapolating from one sentence in which you cannot ask for clarification that he was indeed left totally alone because he's dead. The word "alone" in fact does not appear anywhere in that sentence or the ones immediately before or following. This is a poor example.

 

[teheviltwin]

Honestly, that's a baffling conclusion to come to, as his parents--in addition to being an actual part of his life and upbringing--clearly provided an environment of luxury, comfort, and engagement beyond measure. I once worked for an elderly Cantonese woman who raised her 3 granddaughters alone, and apparently it's not unusual in eastern cultures for the grandparents to do much of the rising of a child when the work schedules of the parents aren't accommodating. They also grew up with more than a little money, went to expensive schools, and are all perfectly well-adjusted, so there were obviously other factors at play here.
The kid was just off from day one, and no amount of holding, playing, and protecting could possibly have helped. If anything, it'd probably just turn him into an equally entitled momma's boy who would kill his entire family when they eventually paid less attention to him as they lived their own lives. Really, just as no amount of gasoline and body work is going to fix a car with a broken engine, so too would no amount of parental involvement have helped his situation. Lots of folks, rich and poor, have parents who can't always 'be there', and damn near none of them become the unhinged nutjob this lunatic became

It's both. That's the whole point. My boyfriend went to a private all-boys school and he's not a psychopath either. What I get from the whinefesto is how many times he was passed from person to person to school to school etc. Incidents of complete lack of supervision where it should have been etc. If they had given him what he needed it wouldn't have meant hugging him every five seconds. There's a reason that your parents get mad when you climb the tree and fall out of it, because they care. Bonding is not about a snugglefest. Rules, discipline and boundaries make a child feel safe. Kids aren't a equipped to deal with decision making at a young age. It's like dogs, they need a strong leader and to be cared for or they end up neurotic.

 

[Ze Red Medic]

Well, I just saw Elliot Rodgers on television. Now I wonder what the news would say on who is to blame.

Survey says: Hollywood movies, but of COURSE!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...c7e7ea-e40d-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_story.html

Now, I don't much like those kind of movies myself, but... seriously? I... guess it makes a little more sense than blaming photos of womens' asses, but it's still pretty ludicrous.

 

[teheviltwin]

You know we don't have Cactii in the midwest too, right? I'd never seen one. Because I was five. My brother hadn't seen one either because he was 10. It's the kind of thing kids do.

As for being "left alone unsupervised," you're extrapolating from one sentence in which you cannot ask for clarification that he was indeed left totally alone because he's dead. The word "alone" in fact does not appear anywhere in that sentence or the ones immediately before or following. This is a poor example.

So you were left in the supervision of your older brother then.. not on your own at four years old. By ten years old, I knew what a cactus was and that Wile Coyote got hurt by the needles... Repeatedly.

Which is why I am speculating based on the whole thing and things we do know... Like that he was boarded by the age of 4.

 

[c-no]

Survey says: Hollywood movies, but of COURSE!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...c7e7ea-e40d-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_story.html

Now, I don't much like those kind of movies myself, but... seriously? I... guess it makes a little more sense than blaming photos of womens' asses, but it's still pretty ludicrous.

HLN pretty much mentioned him. One of the people in the panel said male entitlement (makes sense, Elliot wants woman, thinks he deserves one), another panel member said affluenza (Also makes sense if it does tie with the shootings. Elliot does mention in his manifesto about things like having BMW and going to movie premieres.)

*Edit: Gun control is now being brought in. All I can say is yeah, this even is tragic. Really, one has to wonder how Elliot obtained his guns. Even then, it might not matter since really, another gun control debate isn't need for now, not when people should be mourning those who were killed in this shooting.

 

[Artard]

So you were left in the supervision of your older brother then.. not on your own at four years old.

You may be correct in the end, but you're speculating incautiously.

Here's another: I never said I was left in the supervision of my older brother. You just extrapolated that without asking for clarification, because I mentioned my brother also grabbed a cactus. We weren't together. It was a common occurrence among people living in Killeen, Texas, which is the location of a large army base featuring people from all over the country where they don't have things like cactii and gila monsters and scorpions.

 

[Cwckifan]

Yes but I'm not looking at what he says. We're talking about a guy who is half Asian but says that full Asians (like his mother) are hideous. He says that he is perfect and genetically superior... Yet he was born weighing 5.4 lbs and underperformed physically and mentally his whole life.

Look at it without his bias perspective. He was left unsupervised in a strange house by all of the adults and ended up injured whilst still a toddler.

I'm not sure what you think I'm referring to by parental bonding. It doesn't mean that they didn't get on very well. It means that his parents did not provide the right environment for a big oxytocin party. Feeling safe, being cared for, held when you cry, well fed, warm etc. Now I don't doubt that he was fed, watered and had all the shiny things that a child could desire. I do doubt that he was given decent supervision and was held when he cried by his parents especially when he was at a boarding school by 4.

If a child's immediate family/carers don't provide these things the kid is exponentially more likely to have anti-social tendencies. It's not a good survival mechanism to bond with your family if you can't trust them to watch your back.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3720131/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12121210

That is a simply baffling conclusion to come too, especially considering that his parents--in addition to being a part of his life and upbringing--had clearly done everything they could to provide an environment of luxury, comfort, engagement and support beyond measure. I once worked for an elderly Cantonese woman who had raised her (now grown) granddaughters from birth on her own, and apparently that's not too unusual for easterners to do when the parents have to work quite frequently. Accordingly, they too had some money, vacationed often, and went to expensive schools, and still managed to have friends, relationships, and be completely well adjusted and independent in adulthood.
Few folks, rich or poor, can have parents who are present every time they cry, need food, or are feeling unhappy, and yet most folks in this situation don't become the egotistical murderers this lunatic did. This kid was just off from day one, and just as no amount of gas and bodywork will help a car with a broken engine, more parental attention probably wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference. If anything, he'd probably end up being an equally entitled momma's boy who would feel betrayed by--and then kill--his whole family when they stopped paying attention to him as their lives pressed on. He was just born bad, and nobody is to blame

 

[Bgheff]

Physical presence doesn't mean bonding. I know a lot of parents, unfortunately including family members, who are thoroughly awful, if ever present, parents. The first person who seemed to give him any kind of boundaries and structure appeared to be Soumaya, who he intended to kill.

The bitch was cutting into his WoW time. That's not taken lightly. I would like to point out when he was 11-13 I believe him and his friends would hang out till 3 am at an internet cafe. Not many parents would be cool with that, being out so late and then walking home all with no adult supervision.