Epic Games General Thread - Its time to talk about what the AAA gaming industry does not understand about the PC console.

[Disc]

The Reviews for Borderlands 3 on steam are amazing.

Some of my faves:

Spoiler: Salt and Sass

 

[KanaPostsonKiwi]

Yet another amusing and simultaneously annoying case.

Steam Community :: Totally Reliable Delivery Service

Totally Reliable Delivery Service

steamcommunity.com

The long and short of it: Developers use Steam users to advertise and beta test their game, then hops on EGS after the fact, directly breaking Steam's rules as they do so.
I sure am happy that so many games journalists are covering cases like this.

I'd generally be happy if Steam starts slapping exclusive-length bans to developers who do this shit. The discussions and support is clearly being given through Steam as well.

 

[AnOminous]

I'd generally be happy if Steam starts slapping exclusive-length bans to developers who do this shit. The discussions and support is clearly being given through Steam as well.

I'd have no problem if they straight up sued them for it, along with Epic itself for tortious interference. There are reasons they don't, though.

 

[ZMOT]

I'd have no problem if they straight up sued them for it, along with Epic itself for tortious interference. There are reasons they don't, though.

it's tinybuild, they have been tards for years now. just remember their whole g2a whining where they basically admitted to be to stupid too run a webshop just so they can get a bigger cut but where too cheap to implement basic common sense fraud prevention.

iirc current rule is they have to release it on steam in 30 days after it released somewhere else, so they have till the end of april. and it's not the first time epic paid for 30 days exclusivity, see rdr2. why they would do it for a borderline asset flip is anyone's guess tho, must be in line with timmy tencent's "we curate all games on our store to make sure they are good" policy...

 

[KanaPostsonKiwi]

To be blunt, as a gamedev; just fucking pirate games instead of using G2A. It's preferrable to everyone involved. Bad comes to worse, the dev can no joke end up with the bill for the game they made that G2A/Kinquin/Whatever they're calling themselves this week is selling, since a lot of their stock is from ID theft, CC fraud and other remarkably scummy approaches.

There was a time Steam automatically slammed an account probation if you got delivered a gift by one of the compromised accounts they were running. They literally stole Steam users' accounts, bought games into the inventories, and then traded those away to their holder accounts, which they then sold them from with 10-20% of normal selling price. Steam eventually stopped the practice of being able to buy games into your inventory and giving them away because of companies like them.

How does the dev end up with the bill? Banks will chargeback purchases made via stolen IDs and CC frauds within a timeframe of 3-6 months or so, and whoever paid money for them (In this case 30% Steam, 70% dev) will have to hand the money back because it wasn't a legal transaction, and there's international agreements on this shit. So the devs end up paying back more money (the full money, inc. what was taxed, government doesn't respond to chargeback requests unless they're exceptional sums) and in the red for an item that wasn't sold, but G2A scumfucks still end up making money out of the deal. There's really nothing the developer, or the store can do in these cases. All they're seeing is a legitimate transaction at the time, from a credit/debit card that checks out.

So, you want a game cheap? Wait for sale, or use proper alternative stores. If you want it cheaper, pirate it. Don't use G2A.

 

[ZMOT]

How does the dev end up with the bill? Banks will chargeback purchases made via stolen IDs and CC frauds within a timeframe of 3-6 months or so, and whoever paid money for them (In this case 30% Steam, 70% dev) will have to hand the money back because it wasn't a legal transaction, and there's international agreements on this shit. So the devs end up paying back more money (the full money, inc. what was taxed, government doesn't respond to chargeback requests unless they're exceptional sums) and in the red for an item that wasn't sold, but G2A scumfucks still end up making money out of the deal. There's really nothing the developer, or the store can do in these cases. All they're seeing is a legitimate transaction at the time, from a credit/debit card that checks out.

so how can g2a sell keys if you don't generate them? and valve shuts down any account that issues a chargeback (they lost money on it after all), which means the only really effective way is hijacking someone's account and buy gifts directly in the short timeframe the owner hasn't noticed, and iirc only works for friends anyway. hardly anyone buys games with the requirement to get friended first from a fishy account and then get gifted the game.
so in the grand scheme of things it's only an issue if sell keys for a bigger cut to begin with. if you pay them their cut and stick with gog/steam or even egs none of that should be an issue for you.

a lot of their stock is from ID theft, CC fraud and other remarkably scummy approaches.

you know what people makes stop giving a fuck about this? using hyperbole to the point it's obvious not the case. at least you didn't use faulty math and made up shit like tinybuild did (unless of course you believe every torrent is a lost sale, otoh every chargeback is fraud I guess).
the vast majority are legit keys, bundle leftovers or batches from cheaper regions, if not outright harvested from cases and then copied by some sweatshop. "a lot of stock" of stolen keys simply won't keep a company running for long if they have to ban "a lot" of their sellers and no one uses their platform when it's more trouble than it's worth.
and it's not like steam etc run zero fraud prevention. more often than not they block a purchases if you appear suspicious since it's cheaper to lose out on a sale than have to deal with a chargeback. VPN IP-ranges or blocks from hosters with suspicious activity aren't unknown or hard to track, even more when you compare it to existing account activity.
remember how people were bitching they had to upload credentials to buy stuff? and it's certainly not data-mining, since it's one of the easiest ways to lose a customer.

I can't feel sorry for any store that allows the purchase of several hundred keys with a single CC, personal use is even less believable than getting caught with a kilogram weed. same for people that buy suspiciously cheap keys from accounts with low double-digit reviews and a 40% negativity rating and get fucked. the "professional" resellers simply care too much about their accounts, not to mention the money they'll lose from legit sales that g2a is gonna hold (no idea about kinguin), that's why they usually reimburse you one way or another.

TLDR: organized crime doesn't scam you out of earnings since there's simply not enough money to be made, not even for laundering, nor are there thousand of sweaty "hackers" stealing your money for lulz.

 

[AnOminous]

so how can g2a sell keys if you don't generate them?

I believe the scammers buy blocks of these with stolen credit cards, then sell them to a variety of people who all pay a variety of ways. So when the big block purchases get reversed, the publisher gets hosed. The scammers have sold to a bunch of people, not just one block, and not all of those reverse charges or even try to get their money back.

Then the publisher has the choice of invalidating the keys and fucking possibly innocent buyers, or just swallowing the loss.

So the publishers do generate the keys, but if you sell anything for credit cards, there's going to be some degree of fraud.

g2a is just a grey-market where people who have these keys sell them, often legally, but sometimes not. I'm not sure exactly how complicit g2a is in the outright theft, but they haven't been shut down yet, which doesn't by itself mean much.

My personal opinion, based on very little, is that they do the absolute minimum not to be shut down but they know a chunk of their income comes from illegal shit and will allow as much of it as they can get away with.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Very few people are some kind of weird, irrational Steam loyalists. I think if you had something better than Steam people would flock to it pretty quickly. If you even had an "almost as good" alternative plenty of people would have accounts on both platforms. Even the oldest Steam users remember we were more or less forced at gunpoint to install it in the first place by these fuckers (well okay at threat of not being able to buy Half-Life 2 but same thing really).

People, Steam loyalists or otherwise, are going to (and already have really) hate Epic for fucking up their access to games without having to install an absolutely atrocious client that is even worse than Steam's original really horrible client, which itself only became half-decent 5+ years after it was released.

What confuses me even more is that it’s still in such a bad state. Steam might have released in a shitty state but was perfectly functional if not actively helpful within a year or 2. We’re coming up on 2 years since Epic started their dumbass war and it doesn’t have a shopping cart a year after the lack of one tripped fraud countermeasure for fuck knows how many people.

 

[KanaPostsonKiwi]

so how can g2a sell keys if you don't generate them?

They're often bought retail or as mail-order retail with either funds transferred to prepaid cards that don't require personal details to use, gift cards or with actual cash. The keys come part of the retail package, or are generated as a part of a digital sale. Nowadays it's very rare to have these on Steam, but sites that do sell steam keys, like HumbleBundle for instance have also become a victim of this practice. Essentially the keys are already sold and generated by the time of the sale, and not on the spot.

hardly anyone buys games with the requirement to get friended first from a fishy account and then get gifted the game.

Of course i can't offer you statistics for this, but for a long time G2A, Kinquin and other such sites offered this exact option, and it was notably cheaper than their other options. Storefronts don't really keep sale options up if people aren't using them.

you know what people makes stop giving a fuck about this? using hyperbole to the point it's obvious not the case.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-26-it-looks-like-ubisoft-is-going-after-third-party-key-sellers

G2A Scammer Explains How He Profited Off Stolen Indie Game Keys

MangaGamer, a localiser of adult visual novels, wanted to reward customers who'd bought games through their website with free Steam keys. Two years into the promotion, a hacker allegedly used stolen credit cards to fraudulently buy hundreds of games. The scam cost MangaGamer tens of thousands of...

kotaku.com

r/IAmA - I am an Ex-G2a scammer.

6,391 votes and 1,138 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

Beware Discount Steam Keys - Unknown Worlds

Beware discount Steam keys - If you don't purchase a key from an official store, you risk losing both your money and the copy of the game.

unknownworlds.com

Blackwell Deception

www.steamgifts.com

Devolver Digital on Twitter

“Devolver Digital games purchased on @G2A_com are not legitimate, not guaranteed, and not supported. We are actively canceling those keys.”

twitter.com

If you want more examples i can provide them from wide variety of sources. I only picked what i had on hand, plenty more cases to be had if i toss a query to IGDA.

 

[derpherp2]

Nier is owned by Square Enix and Astral Chain bombed. Platinum just helped develop Nier Automata and square fronted loaded some of the development costs, but platinum doesn't have a stake in the IP and doesn't get royalities or w/e.

Platinum doesn't seem to be able to properly make an action game without some form of major oversight at this point. If it's entirely in house they make exceptional decisions about the gameplay or decide to make shit QTE Movies. They really need someone to hold their hand so the project turns out well. There's also the fact that they can't seem to do proper level design and make most of the levels hallways.

Also Nier's main appeal was the plot, and a... story line-thing that's endeared many hardcore fans.
The fighting system, while massively better than all of it's predecessors combined is still not something to brag about.
Seriously how did they make shooting and slashing so clunky?

In short Automata was good because it was a Drakengard that didn't try ripping your dick off while trying to shatter your femur as it eats your babies in the span of fifty years and laughs in some weird eldritch DDR seizure melody.
OG fans prefer that only ever happening as an implication, not as a gameplay element, minus the required DDR finale.

The QTE movies are a kamiya staple tho, don't kinkshame the drakengard community.

 

[CreamyHerman’s]

More information about the SR3 remaster came out. Not only will it not be a free update, it's a Epic Game Store exclusive.

 

[The tired cat]

More information about the SR3 remaster came out. Not only will it not be a free update, it's a Epic Game Store exclusive.

Meh, I'm mostly interested in the SR2 remaster that's apparently in the works or something like that.

 

[ZehnBoat]

lol bye epic

 

[DeadwastePrime]

View attachment 1259413

lol bye epic

i already had that option enabled because fortnite players kept trying to 4chan hacker my account for free vbucks

im joking, but i do have 2 factor enabled

 

[KanaPostsonKiwi]

How many people do you think will sign up to that with their phones and not understand it'll shart out identifiable data that's worth cash for EGS?

 

[DeadwastePrime]

How many people do you think will sign up to that with their phones and not understand it'll shart out identifiable data that's worth cash for EGS?

yes

 

[OmnipotentStupidity]

A Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1 + 2 Remake has just been announced as Epic Games Store's newest exclusive.

EDIT: The preorder website the official THPS Twitter has linked, tonyhawkthegame.com/buy, is also not actually going to the site, and is blasting people with security risk warning: use at your own risk.
EDIT 2: Updating pictures with URL for posterity/adding archives. Apologies.
EDIT 3: Archive for some reason isn't working for me right now, but here are the updated pictures. Opera specifically keeps trying to reload the page, don't know what that's about. Tested these on Mac and PC, both gave the same exact result.

Spoiler: TonyHawkTheGame.com

 

[tehpope]

Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5

Epic also announced they're allowing anyone to use UE5 "for free" until they make $1 million in revenue. I assume "for free" comes with some caveats. Like "If you released a product using UE5 on PC, it has to be an Epic Game Store or related Tencent Marketplace exclusive, forever." Too good to be true.

I mean, this gets more devs to use your tech, but Epic have been major Assholes lately and I can see this included in whatever docs you have to agree too to use UE5.

Edit:
I predict someone will find out about it and make a stink about it. It'll be all over the internet. Epic will recant and change the exclusivity deal to a year or whatever.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5

Epic also announced they're allowing anyone to use UE5 "for free" until they make $1 million in revenue. I assume "for free" comes with some caveats. Like "If you released a product using UE5 on PC, it has to be an Epic Game Store or related Tencent Marketplace exclusive, forever." Too good to be true.

I mean, this gets more devs to use your tech, but Epic have been major Assholes lately and I can see this included in whatever docs you have to agree too to use UE5.

Edit:
I predict someone will find out about it and make a stink about it. It'll be all over the internet. Epic will recant and change the exclusivity deal to a year or whatever.

Haven’t a lot of companies gone back to proprietary tech because Epic has started trying to fuck with people? Also, why the fuck is Sweeney talking about the PS5’s SSD like it’s the 2nd Coming?

 

[Disc]

A Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1 + 2 Remake has just been announced as Epic Games Store's newest exclusive.

EDIT: The preorder website the official THPS Twitter has linked, tonyhawkthegame.com/buy, is also not actually going to the site, and is blasting people with security risk warning: use at your own risk.
EDIT 2: Updating pictures with URL for posterity/adding archives. Apologies.
EDIT 3: Archive for some reason isn't working for me right now, but here are the updated pictures. Opera specifically keeps trying to reload the page, don't know what that's about. Tested these on Mac and PC, both gave the same exact result.

I got to the website itself, it's kinda impressive how much it runs like ass. The 3D background is slow and stuttery as heck, sometimes scrolling progresses the screen (but not always) it's... not looking great, tbh.

It was also notably difficult to find out who made it (Vicarious Visions - they made or had a hand in Destiny 2, Crash Trilogy, and the Skylanders games as of late). Its not the guys who made the recent shit ones (Robomodo) so... idk.

I don't think there'll be much backlash against it on the epic exclusive front. AFAIK Hawk's always been a big console series,