Epic Games General Thread - Its time to talk about what the AAA gaming industry does not understand about the PC console.

a full library full of crap you don't care about doesn't make much of a difference, else origin would be the number 2 after steam. the zoomers only buy v-bucks with their mom's credit card, they don't have much use or need to play anything else. maybe gtaV. they certainly aren't that eager to play the latest "deep" indie pixelcrap timmy shelled out money for. a populated list you didn't buy yourself and have no interest in is just background noise.

That's again your opinion. Minecraft was also a shitty niche indie title. There have been plenty of fantastic games given out on epic. Games like super hot, super meat boy, faster than light.
They're not just noise, and those games become yours if you have any slight interest in them. I have tons of games on steam, most of which I've never played. They fill out my library and makes it look big. Which makes it feel good. And makes me hesitant to move over somewhere else. They got me beat and if something similar happens to someone else in EGS then so be it. I planted my tree on steam therefore I always return to it and it's my default storefront. if a new pc user ends up planting their seed on EGS...

console exclusives only work if they are worth enough to reach critical mass in your social circle, and that's only if you play multi with them to begin with, and by that definition steam has epic beat as well. the majority of games played on consoles are multiplats anyway. that's also assuming you can't use both, running both steam and epic is hardly comparable to owning 2 consoles and paying for their online services each month.

It is easier to switch between the various platforms on pc yes, because there aren't any upfront cost but again you assume a bunch of things from this hypothetical group of consumers. That they a. Have steam and epic rather than being brand new to pc gaming that got on the trend because of fortnite and 2. they're not brand new to gaming in general and thereby may not even have consoles. There is a reason why there is such anger anytime epic makes a game exclusive. And it's because they're worth something, and definitely worth enough to play.
It's really important to realize they're not aiming to win over steam users directly but instead plant the seed for a new pc user that may not even be aware of steam yet. It's why fortnite is such an important opportunity for them.

discord is also a bad comparison since it filled a niche that didn't previously existed or only using several programs, and even then it's much more convenient in a single package with more features (same way steam is to epic) than whatever instant messenger + voice chat you were using, and you can even post spicy memes while doing so. that's not even close to epic trying to buy their way into an already saturated market.

I don't know what you're on about here, I used discord as a successful example of moving a userbase away from something people were used to towards something new. Which as I said, I previously thought was impossible. People are hesitant to move once they're settled in and discord proves the rule.

that was more epic themselves giving publishers the last push to go back to their in-house engines with their lawfare shit, no one wants to spend money on a possible liability. but for heavy 3d stuff unreal is still the go to for most indies that don't have other options otherwise or some jap devs. unity has only recently been shaping up in that regard and still some way to go (biggest issue being that they don't have a popular showcase for their engine, while epic has been using unreal for till it was replaced with fortnite. unity claims they don't want to compete with tier customers, which makes sense, but that also means the only thing people associate unity with are shitty asset flips where you can't disable the splash screen).

besides the engine it's much better to just be a service provider and skim off a bit while hardly doing anything, valve has operated that way for years (they certainly invested more into steam than epic does in it's store, but given the money valve made steam could still be much better). epic isn't the first wanting to be it, and certainly won't be the last. and of course what ever shenanigans their chinese investors are up to.

Yeah I know unreal isn't dead at all yet, but I wonder how much the emerging threat of unity may have caused them to need something else to skim off of the top of like they used to do with unreal engine and valve does with steam. Unity is definitely shaping up and is losing it's reputation as an asset-flipper engine which may have caused the whole store thing once get realized what they had with fortnite.
 
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does epic store even have refunds at this point? individually I can't see many people stick to it after getting sold shit that might not even work with no way to complain about it, that's why reviews and forums are important (as shit as they might be).
Epic surprisingly does have a refund system that's working apparently.
 
Yeah I know unreal isn't dead at all yet, but I wonder how much the emerging threat of unity may have caused them to need something else to skim off of the top of like they used to do with unreal engine and valve does with steam. Unity is definitely shaping up and is losing it's reputation as an asset-flipper engine which may have caused the whole store thing once get realized what they had with fortnite.
Another thing to remember is that Valve has a TON of free shit for devs (VR, Steam API, Audio, VAC, Multiplayer) that Epic and Unreal does not. So there's a lot of incentive to use Valve stuff. And you don't even need to put your game on Steam to use it. So there's a lot out there slowly chipping away at Unreal and Fortnite cannot last forever and was basically pure luck.
 
Another thing to remember is that Valve has a TON of free shit for devs (VR, Steam API, Audio, VAC, Multiplayer) that Epic and Unreal does not. So there's a lot of incentive to use Valve stuff. And you don't even need to put your game on Steam to use it. So there's a lot out there slowly chipping away at Unreal and Fortnite cannot last forever and was basically pure luck.
I think you're talking about steamworks? Yeah, valve has done fantastic things for PC gaming and it would be a hell of a lot worse without them. It would be funny for valve to just pull the plug on fortnite since they probably already use some steamworks features tbh. Funny but not very smart.

unreal used to provide a free and fairly competent engine for devs up until unity emerged. I can appreciate that in the same way I can appreciate steamworks, making things easier for devs are always good. if you had asked any developer in 2011 what engine to use it would've hands down been "unreal engine" That's one of the reasons I think this store was a desperation move on epics part since their neglect of their engine has caused them to lose their soft-monopoly to unity.
These days it's 50/50 if you ask a developer what engine you should use to make your game because unreal and unity are fairly equal. It really has to suck for epic to lose out on being the top dog. What uplay, battlenet and discord store failed at doing to steam, unity successfully did to unreal engine.
 
Another thing to remember is that Valve has a TON of free shit for devs (VR, Steam API, Audio, VAC, Multiplayer) that Epic and Unreal does not. So there's a lot of incentive to use Valve stuff. And you don't even need to put your game on Steam to use it. So there's a lot out there slowly chipping away at Unreal and Fortnite cannot last forever and was basically pure luck.
Steam's pimp share of 30% may seem steep but you will generally sell so many more copies there that you'll still make more money than on these other shit-tier platforms.
 
Steam's pimp share of 30% may seem steep but you will generally sell so many more copies there that you'll still make more money than on these other shit-tier platforms.
Combined with steam actually lowering the 30% share once the game sells a proper number of copies (and I believe it's different numbers for triple A games and indies)
 
Combined with steam actually lowering the 30% share once the game sells a proper number of copies (and I believe it's different numbers for triple A games and indies)

iirc AAA already had their own share negotiations (rules don't really apply when you're big enough if you will), and even before it was official policy you could try to get a better cut. now it's simply based on revenue which is much easier to work with (first milestone is 10 million in revenue for 25%, next one 50 mill for 20%).

That's again your opinion. Minecraft was also a shitty niche indie title. There have been plenty of fantastic games given out on epic. Games like super hot, super meat boy, faster than light.
They're not just noise, and those games become yours if you have any slight interest in them. I have tons of games on steam, most of which I've never played. They fill out my library and makes it look big. Which makes it feel good. And makes me hesitant to move over somewhere else. They got me beat and if something similar happens to someone else in EGS then so be it. I planted my tree on steam therefore I always return to it and it's my default storefront. if a new pc user ends up planting their seed on EGS...

minecraft, wat? that some marissa moira level of deflection.
you also conveniently ignore that the majority of games, as good as they are, were years old. most people already played them when they became free on epic because they've been whored out on bundles and sales for ages. if you didn't care about them before why would you suddenly care about them now?
that also ignores that a day only has 24 hours, it's nice that timmy gives us years old games for free when they are competing with the new hotness. you said it yourself you got plenty of shit on steam you never played (and most likely never will), the exact same thing is gonna happen on epic, with the difference you don't even know half the games in your library because "I grabbed them when they were free *shrug*". ask yourself, why didn't you play all those games in your library at least once?

It's really important to realize they're not aiming to win over steam users directly but instead plant the seed for a new pc user that may not even be aware of steam yet. It's why fortnite is such an important opportunity for them.

so did ea with origin, while having a much broader catalog of high profile exclusives targeting a broader demographic right from the start. how did that work? apparently not that great when I now can buy an ea pass on steam.

as for the anger, no one really gave a fuck you could only buy ea games on origin for years or now only on uplay (because why bother with egs). it's not the games but how it's handled. devs using steam happily generating hype before telling everyone "see ya suckers, buy on epic"? taking over kickstarters which were advertised with a steam key? this has also mostly died down, because now people know they just need to wait a year if they really want it (which gives them plenty of time playing something else, maybe even their backlog, where they promptly forget about the game that looked interesting a year ago) or the price is so retarded no one in his right mind would buy it (kingdom hearts complete is over 200 burgerbucks, for that price you can buy a used ps4 with their version, or just emulate most of it).

I don't know what you're on about here, I used discord as a successful example of moving a userbase away from something people were used to towards something new. Which as I said, I previously thought was impossible. People are hesitant to move once they're settled in and discord proves the rule.

yeah, from where? what did they use before? this is also nothing "new", back in the old days people were constantly switching every few years. icq was a thing once. so was myspace. the difference is the new thing brought something new to the table, even if it was just more convenience. that's why features matter. no one switches to a worse version of something existing, and even if the epic store is your first foray into pc gaming (so you don't know better), why would you wanna stick with it once you experience what steam offers? a list full of games you don't care about / already finished / maybe play in the future when you're not distracted by new releases (so never)?

Yeah I know unreal isn't dead at all yet, but I wonder how much the emerging threat of unity may have caused them to need something else to skim off of the top of like they used to do with unreal engine and valve does with steam. Unity is definitely shaping up and is losing it's reputation as an asset-flipper engine which may have caused the whole store thing once get realized what they had with fortnite.

maybe, but given timmy's autistic behavior I stopped trying to understand why epic does what it does. for 3d heavy games unreal is still pretty much a lock in (I think it even comes with the playstation dev kit, which is a pretty good trojan horse), and that's the ones sony and other big publishers are pushing. he might be aware that a horde of unity indie games can sting in it's sum since they don't have the means and needs to properly utilize unreal anyway (while timmy taking royalties), but trying to take on steam in the worst way possible.. dunno. makes more sense with them branching out into the professional space like movie vfx and architecture as they're currently doing, since having a lock on that space is basically loads of industrial tier money for very little effort and a very inert customer base.
 
minecraft, wat? that some marissa moira level of deflection.
you also conveniently ignore that the majority of games, as good as they are, were years old. most people already played them when they became free on epic because they've been whored out on bundles and sales for ages. if you didn't care about them before why would you suddenly care about them now?
that also ignores that a day only has 24 hours, it's nice that timmy gives us years old games for free when they are competing with the new hotness. you said it yourself you got plenty of shit on steam you never played (and most likely never will), the exact same thing is gonna happen on epic, with the difference you don't even know half the games in your library because "I grabbed them when they were free *shrug*". ask yourself, why didn't you play all those games in your library at least once?
most of your post is just arguing from the point of view of someone who already has a vast library which I've clearly stated several times is not the market or the people they're going for. Clearly we're just talking in a circles since you don't seem to understand that.
see:


to be fair, they're not aiming for you guys. You guys are willing to stay on steam because that's where all your games are. But sweeney is counting on all the 14 year olds that just got into pc gaming because of fortnite and now they have a small library of games given to them for free on epic, where their games are. They don't wanna abandon all that to go on steam because they don't have any games there. Just like how you guys may not be willing to move away from steam. Say what you will about them but they are playing the long game.

the part thats not completely about that:

yeah, from where? what did they use before? this is also nothing "new", back in the old days people were constantly switching every few years. icq was a thing once. so was myspace. the difference is the new thing brought something new to the table, even if it was just more convenience. that's why features matter. no one switches to a worse version of something existing, and even if the epic store is your first foray into pc gaming (so you don't know better), why would you wanna stick with it once you experience what steam offers? a list full of games you don't care about / already finished / maybe play in the future when you're not distracted by new releases (so never)?

Lots of people who moved to discord came from steam which I said before. Steam already had lots of features that discord had, voice chat, group chat, you name it. Just like facebook did to myspace it looked better and was easier to use, exactly what people ask for when they switch messaging services or websites. Not features. Just like how gamers generally speaking want games when they switch from gaming platform A to gaming platform B. Most of discords current features were later on after it really took off, just like steam looks nothing like it did when it launched. Those extra features are often added after it's taken off
steam, 2013: doing what discord did in 2016:
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discords greatest revolution was having an improved UI. The current steam chat is far better fortunately since they ended up responding to discords popularity by improving their own, just like how they started developing the greenlight system after indie games started taking off. Minecraft being the highest profile one.

as for the rest it's just another circular argument which I don't really feel like typing again since it's really a waste of time but I already had it typed out:

Same reason people stick to Xbox/Playstation/Nintendo If things worked as you say everyone would be pc gamers. They're not. The switch is far worse on features, online and anything else when up against other consoles, yet it still carved it's way to the second most sold console this generation with only a few million less sales than the playstation 4. Why is nintendo still around? The wii, the wii u and the switch are consistently featureless and worse than every console in an equal generation, yet it still sells extremely well and only due to their exclusives alone.
As for why would you stick around. with an inferior product, besides not wanting to start over with an empty library on a foreign platform alone?
see:

A lot of people in the thread have this idea that it's about features and whatever has the best features will win in the end, it's just not the case. It's about where your friends are first and foremost and what games they have. That's why console exclusives works.

I don't see the point in asking these questions when you already have the answer. I've explained epics reasoning and all you're doing is going off of the point of view from people with games rather than new gamers and their friends. Being deluded into thinking people always select the best platform with the best features instead of where their friends and library stays.
It's far easier to buy a game in a library filled with other games than starting a brand new library.

Either way because you're not bringing up much new things this'll probably be my last post on this, just see my old posts in this thread so you can see what epic is actually attempting and why they have no real hope for you in specific to jump on because you already have hundreds of games on a competing platform. And why they want someone new to gaming now who builds their library there and then refuse to jump off. And that starts with some free cocaine. And no, you're not using steam because they have the forum feature or the workshop, you use it because your games and friends are there.
 
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Steam's pimp share of 30% may seem steep but you will generally sell so many more copies there that you'll still make more money than on these other shit-tier platforms.
Yeah. The thing is that the 30% is basically a price for getting on the most popular PC gaming platform on the market. And Steam also provides you with a TON of free shit, which is overlooked. Don't want to program your MP? Valve has you covered. Don't want an Anticheat? Valve has that too. Want an easy modding API? Yup, that's Valve. Decent community features? Achivos? Yup, all Valve.

So that 30% comes with a LOT of benefits that retardo Timmy can't fucking understand. Its not like Valve takes your money and you get nothing for it. You can also cut costs by a lot of the free shit Valve provides, so that 30% can actually be 25-20% with the money you can save by using their services.
Combined with steam actually lowering the 30% share once the game sells a proper number of copies (and I believe it's different numbers for triple A games and indies)
Yeah, the share goes down as you sell more. So it incentivizes good publicity and good sales.
 
Still dont get the autism behind hating the Epic Games Launcher.
It's a system that usually can't remember the last device you logged in on despite claiming it does and forces you to go through 2FA every time. It's also sluggish, prone to freezing/crashing, annoying to navigate and there's always another update to download.
 
So that 30% comes with a LOT of benefits that retardo Timmy can't fucking understand. Its not like Valve takes your money and you get nothing for it. You can also cut costs by a lot of the free shit Valve provides, so that 30% can actually be 25-20% with the money you can save by using their services.

don't forget the batch of free keys you can sell outside steam for whatever cut you want. in reality steam's "cut" is estimated to be more around 22% (before milestones) when you factor those in.
 
don't forget the batch of free keys you can sell outside steam for whatever cut you want. in reality steam's "cut" is estimated to be more around 22% (before milestones) when you factor those in.
That said, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to make a good faith effort to also market the game on Steam, and if you do any discounts, it must also be matched on Steam.

All pretty common-sense really, but it's not like you can ride off Steam for free.
 
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That said, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to make a good faith effort to also market the game on Steam, and if you do any discounts, it must also be matched on Steam.

All pretty common-sense really, but it's not like you can ride off Steam for free.
Eeeeh...Depends on that discount part, I've seen some games having cheaper keys on stores like fanatical or Eneba and both those are official key sites.
 
That said, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to make a good faith effort to also market the game on Steam, and if you do any discounts, it must also be matched on Steam.

All pretty common-sense really, but it's not like you can ride off Steam for free.

you can't generate an unlimited number of keys, and you still got to activate it on steam. got a question? there are discussion forums right over there. need a hint? guide section right next to it. get cards? either complete the badge to show off or sell them for a few cent. see your friend play a new game? oh it's just a store click away to take a look at it.

that's how valve profits of "free" keys.
 
Curious, is "Epic Games" the same company known as "Epic MegaGames" back in the early 90s, which made PC games like "Jazz Jackrabbit"?
Yes.
Following [Sweeny's] first commercial video game release, ZZT (1991), the company became Epic MegaGames, Inc. in early 1992 and brought on Mark Rein, who is the company's vice president to date. Moving their headquarters to Cary in 1999, the studio's name was simplified to Epic Games.
 
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