Fallout series

Did you even play the game? How do you not know what I'm talking about?

When you join groups like the Brotherhood, the Railroad and the CIT and are forced to pick a side between them and then kill everyone from these other groups.

I fucking hated having to kill all the Railroad members and then all of the Brotherhood of Steel members.

Have YOU ever played a Fallout game? You're 'forced' to pick between a side and then kill everyone in the group in every game that revolves around warring factions. Pick House and you have to blow up the BOS. Pick CL and a whole bunch of groups get wiped. Pick NCR and the Legion and House are gone.

You don't have to kill the Railroad or BOS if you pick the Minutemen as a faction. You don't even have to kill the Institute if you don't want to, though then you'd never get an ending. How is this any different than New Vegas?

The first one has a point, the other is without meaning.
I mean goddamn, the meaning of the dlc is literally in the name "old world blues" they spell it out to you at the end.
Meanwhile in creatively named "nuka word" the riders behave like they do because "raider bad" and that's pretty much it.
I mean look at Tyranny from hohhooh Obsidian Entertainment dunking on Bethesda again, its pretty much the same concept except not shit.
Funny for the sake of funny bad, funny with a somber meaning gud. Ez.

Because the raiders and slavers in the first two games and NV have detailed backstories that make them sympathetic and arn't "raiders and slavers are bad"? You are complaining about the things in one game that you are praising in another. "Ha ha! Funny scientist man said fingers look like penises! This is genius writing that suits fallout so well!" "What? A Fallout DLC set in an amusement park? Such silliness has never been in fallout before this is an insult to Obsidian"

What specifically is so bad about Nuka world that makes it "not fit" compared to the things in the previous games?
 
WinchesterPremium
Sorry my mum says i cant talk to you anymore so this is my last post for now
What specifically is so bad about Nuka world that makes it "not fit" compared to the things in the previous games?
Every good story needs something to happen in it to be interesting and the only thing of note in this is that 1 out of 3 factions betrays you and you duke it out
That's not really a twist, especially when this iteration of raiders is at best a cardboard copy of what was before
The factions are not interesting and their backstories can be summed up with a fart like "the animals behave like animals because they think animals are strong"
Meanwhile the funny scientist who says "penis fingers" to distract you has a history, and a relationship with every other character in the think-tank his own quirks and generally character, he is interesting despite also being funny (subjective, subjective)
comparing F:NV and F4 is hard because its like doing a side by side of a decent painting and a chrischan tier drawing
 
Crazed, drugged, demented and eccentric scientists making weird shit in their own little heaven is wonderfully post apocalyptic and fits well.
Old World Blues was goofy as fuck and the scientists didn't act actually insane, they spouted off a bunch of one-liners. They got fucking James Urbaniak to voice Doctor 0. It was the definition of wacky humor.
 
Sorry my mum says i cant talk to you anymore so this is my last post for now

Look, when I said I'd take care of her and we could run away together I just meant for the night. She should really get off my back.

Every good story needs something to happen in it to be interesting and the only thing of note in this is that 1 out of 3 factions betrays you and you duke it out
That's not really a twist, especially when this iteration of raiders is at best a cardboard copy of what was before
The factions are not interesting and their backstories can be summed up with a fart like "the animals behave like animals because they think animals are strong"
Meanwhile the funny scientist who says "penis fingers" to distract you has a history, and a relationship with every other character in the think-tank his own quirks and generally character, he is interesting despite also being funny (subjective, subjective)
comparing F:NV and F4 is hard because its like doing a side by side of a decent painting and a chrischan tier drawing

Yeah like the New Vegas factions! Like the Elvis cosplayers who cosplay as Elvis because they thought it was a pre-war religion. Much more logical, less wacky, a strong backstory that Obsidian is known for! Or the Mafia cosplayers on the Strip! With their deep backstory of "Mr.House told them to cosplay and they did"! Yeah, when you look at them side by side New Vegas is clearly less wacky than Fallout 4 with characters like that.
 
The problem with a lot of Bethesda's Fallout is more the shitty execution and awful writing than the core concepts themselves. Goofy and weird aren't automatically bad, especially in Fallout, but like most things it depends on how well its executed. I think stuff like the Silver Shroud and AntAgonizer quests are fine because they're mostly well done... but then you have absolutely retarded shit like Little Lamplight. Then there's the Brotherhood in FO3 -- a rogue faction thinking it should take a more active role in leading the Wasteland is fine but given the characterization and general writing for them in the game it's obvious Bethesda didn't give a shit about trying to justify it or set it up well but rather just wanted a cool group of sci-fi knights.

I think even most of Fallout 4 could've been savaged had they nixed the synth and Institute stuff and instead had the plot focus on the Brotherhood coming to Boston and trying to take it over. Have the player then decide which faction they should help. Unfortunately, something that small scale isn't epic or grand enough for Bethesda.
 
Yeah like the New Vegas factions! Like the Elvis cosplayers who cosplay as Elvis because they thought it was a pre-war religion. Much more logical, less wacky, a strong backstory that Obsidian is known for! Or the Mafia cosplayers on the Strip! With their deep backstory of "Mr.House told them to cosplay and they did"! Yeah, when you look at them side by side New Vegas is clearly less wacky than Fallout 4 with characters like that.
Oh come on, a gang of Elvis impersonators is genius. There's definitely more to them than being obsessed with Elvis, too. The entire Strip makes sense, to be honest. It's a bunch of tribes imitating old world customs that they don't understand.
 
How is shooting things on a T-rex not wacky?
I don't disagree with a lot of your points but I do have a problem with this one since the dinosaur is a structure with a real life counterpoint. It isn't wacky so much as flavor. If it was a fictional animatronic that roared and shot fire out of its mouth or had a quest to make it functional and go on a rampage like Liberty Prime then your point would stand.

House saving you doesn't get you as much credit as it could because he does secretly through a proxy of a named friendly faced robot that watches out for you along the way. I think you forge a stronger connection to Victor then House for the first act even if Victor is a soulless robot acting on House's orders.

I'd say NV has as much wackiness as Fallout 4 at times but tries to justify or explain it rather then just throw it in for laughs. Since you brought up the Omerta's I'll bring up the Triggermen.

The Omerta's have their origins as a tribe that used to lure other people to their camps and then rob them or kill them and their one rule was never betray the family. House saw them and was reminded of the mafia's from his day and was planning on opening casino's. You want to set up prostitution and drug running and keep that shit secure who better then mob. Not only does House give them the means to learn the mob mentality but he gives them the mannerisms and style to create an exotic environment that would attract tourists to the casino too.

The Triggermen have their origins as some pre war wise guys became ghouls and independently created gangs that sort of functioned like a pre war family and got a bunch of suits and fedoras together somehow and lived like Raiders and sometimes smuggled drugs into Diamond City. They have as many members as Diamond City and Goodneighbor have people and not a real motivation other then being something for the player to shoot. I like their concept but they don't serve a purpose or do anything. I could see Obsidian having done something like keeping the origin but containing it to one prewar ghoul with a single crew and having you deal with them to rescue Nick but having a real pacifist opinion to do it and then setting up the option to do some work or them and letting you join the family as an associate.
 
I don't disagree with a lot of your points but I do have a problem with this one since the dinosaur is a structure with a real life counterpoint. It isn't wacky so much as flavor. If it was a fictional animatronic that roared and shot fire out of its mouth or had a quest to make it functional and go on a rampage like Liberty Prime then your point would stand.

House saving you doesn't get you as much credit as it could because he does secretly through a proxy of a named friendly faced robot that watches out for you along the way. I think you forge a stronger connection to Victor then House for the first act even if Victor is a soulless robot acting on House's orders.

I'd say NV has as much wackiness as Fallout 4 at times but tries to justify or explain it rather then just throw it in for laughs. Since you brought up the Omerta's I'll bring up the Triggermen.

The Omerta's have their origins as a tribe that used to lure other people to their camps and then rob them or kill them and their one rule was never betray the family. House saw them and was reminded of the mafia's from his day and was planning on opening casino's. You want to set up prostitution and drug running and keep that shit secure who better then mob. Not only does House give them the means to learn the mob mentality but he gives them the mannerisms and style to create an exotic environment that would attract tourists to the casino too.

The Triggermen have their origins as some pre war wise guys became ghouls and independently created gangs that sort of functioned like a pre war family and got a bunch of suits and fedoras together somehow and lived like Raiders and sometimes smuggled drugs into Diamond City. They have as many members as Diamond City and Goodneighbor have people and not a real motivation other then being something for the player to shoot. I like their concept but they don't serve a purpose or do anything. I could see Obsidian having done something like keeping the origin but containing it to one prewar ghoul with a single crew and having you deal with them to rescue Nick but having a real pacifist opinion to do it and then setting up the option to do some work or them and letting you join the family as an associate.

Right. Because it is totally logical for a tribe to change their entire culture (including the way they act in private) based on pre-war culture that they have no way of seeing or interacting with because someone told them to do it to attract customers. This definitely wasn't "Hey you know what would be cool? Lets have mafia dudes in New Vegas!" and than working backwards to justify that. How did that even work? Did he just give them a bunch of Godfather holotapes and say "This is your life now"? If we're comparing them directly Fallout 4's explanation makes far more sense.
 
Right. Because it is totally logical for a tribe to change their entire culture (including the way they act in private) based on pre-war culture that they have no way of seeing or interacting with because someone told them to do it to attract customers. This definitely wasn't "Hey you know what would be cool? Lets have mafia dudes in New Vegas!" and than working backwards to justify that. How did that even work? Did he just give them a bunch of Godfather holotapes and say "This is your life now"? If we're comparing them directly Fallout 4's explanation makes far more sense.
nigger people in real life LARP as shit from thousands of miles away for barely any reason, look at turkey pretending they have any relation to steppe nigs, or literal nigs pretending they have any relation to africa.
 
I would have liked 4 a lot better had it's just been focused on exploration without all the tedious Minecraft style base building and crafting shit.

I understand this is largely a matter of personal taste but I hate that crap, I just don't get the appeal of it at all, give me a well crafted game environment over one you have to build yourself any day.

And in the case of the weapons it sucked because one of my favorite things to do in New Vegas was to find the unique versions of all the weapons, it actually gave you good motivation to explore every nook and cranny, but that's mostly gone in 4 thanks to the crafting, there might be a few unique weapons and items but it's not for everything.

Another thing I hated about 4 though was you're forced to join all of these groups and then you're forced to pick a side and mercessly slaughter characters you may have grown to like? What the shit was up with that? It's an RPG, why can't I find middle grounds?
The more I played 4 and actually tried to hoard some shit to build a base on Spectacle Island, the more I kinda enjoyed the building portion but even then, it's all bad jank considering how you can't get shit to be built exactly the way you want it. Add to that some places even having too small a place to build stuff. I can get some places are better off as an outpost but even then, I feel Todd and his team should of at least extended the boundary line in some places and actually let you get rid of shit beyond furniture and trees, such as junk on the ground.

Fallout 4's weapon crafting was kinda decent but even then, the variety of guns was pretty damn lacking. I get one can say you don't need a bunch of different models of revolvers New Veags had because of weapon crafting but even then, most guns in 4 sucked beyond the 10mm, the handmade rifle, and a legendary double barrel that had the explosive effect. Mods kinda fix that but even then, having some AK ported from COD doesn't really give it much substance compared to what Todd and his team could of done if they took a note from Avellone and his team on weapons.

Random encounters in F1 and F2 are sometimes on the nose but overall easy to separate from the setting so i have little problem with them.
What i take issue with is when the setting itself becomes a meme, like F4.
>Old World Blues
Crazed, drugged, demented and eccentric scientists making weird shit in their own little heaven is wonderfully post apocalyptic and fits well.
>Boone shooting
How is this funny or a joke?

Thats a goatsy-tier stretch and you know it.
With random encounters 1 and 2 had, those can all be chalked up in being lucky to encounter the easter eggs compared to New Vegas. Also Boone shooting from a dinosaur isn't really absurd since he's using a tourist trap statue that he and another guy turned into a sniper's nest. It wouldn't be any different from raiders taking over the remnants of a theme park based around a soda but it would be less absurd since it's just two snipers vs two of three raider gangs consisting of people in furry costume armor and edgelords with knives and blood respectively.
 
Right. Because it is totally logical for a tribe to change their entire culture (including the way they act in private) based on pre-war culture that they have no way of seeing or interacting with because someone told them to do it to attract customers. This definitely wasn't "Hey you know what would be cool? Lets have mafia dudes in New Vegas!" and than working backwards to justify that. How did that even work? Did he just give them a bunch of Godfather holotapes and say "This is your life now"? If we're comparing them directly Fallout 4's explanation makes far more sense.
That's the way I always saw it. He offered them his stockpile of resources, he casino as a base so they could stop their wanderings, his limited military backing giving them an edge over the other tribes and the promise of much more wealth and power. In exchange they'd work for him and change to suit his tastes like any employee should. The Omertas you see today are all about strength and increasing their power so I could see such a deal being tempting to them. I'd like to believe House had enough first hand experience dealing with pre war Vegas types to show his new tribes what he wanted from them and was able to fill in the blanks with holotapes in the same Kings discovered Elvis. The suits were salvaged from the hotels. For his part House wanted to recreate the Vegas he knew and wanted his underlings to have a culture that wasn't alien and easier to manipulate. You make a good point about the in private part. I'd say the facade bled into their real lives over time due to strict enforcement from House as well as having a natural appeal to the Omertas and the change was gradual over the decades. My problem is that time from the forming of the three families to the present was a few decades and not a century.

I agree with you about the working backwards part though. Vegas to Casinos to the Mob.

For the Triggermen in 4 the origin story comes from a bit of dialogue of a ghoul triggerman talking to a human member about the vault they are guarding. All he says is that back in the day there was union construction rackets implying he was alive back in the day and in the mob. That's it, everything I said before is speculation based on this. We don't get any story about the mobsters that survived the war, we don't get a don figure who was possibly one of the ghouls, we don't get any real hierarchy of the faction. All the bosses of the faction are humans speaking like old timely gangsters and wearing these clothes for no given reason and there are hundreds of them in unrelated gangs.

That's my problem with Triggermen is they have nothing other then a unique aesthetic. They failed to do anything to make me believe they have a reason why they exist in this world. Its so weird to me how badly they dropped the ball. You have a cool gangster faction that has some ties to Goodneighbor but your primary interaction with them is not in Goodneighbor. You meet them in the course of saving the old timey detective that has beef with them. This detective also has beef with a ghoulified Whitey Bulger. The ghoulified Whitey Bulger is completely unrelated to the pre war like gangster faction.

Why wasn't Edward Winter the brains behind a singular Triggerman organization run out of Goodneighbor and you deal with them as a part of Nick Valentine's story? That way you get an explanation why they exist the way they do and some sort of stakes in the events of the game.

I'll take the Omertas and their backwards reasoning to explain something they thought would fit the setting and aesthetics of their world with the gaps being filled in with reasonable speculation from other given examples in the world to the almost absolute nothing Fallout 4 gives the Triggermen.

I don't mean to say I hate Fallout 4 or even the Triggermen. I like the idea a lot but the execution is so bare.
 
  • Like
  • Semper Fidelis
Reactions: c-no and Syaoran Li
Right. Because it is totally logical for a tribe to change their entire culture (including the way they act in private) based on pre-war culture that they have no way of seeing or interacting with because someone told them to do it to attract customers. This definitely wasn't "Hey you know what would be cool? Lets have mafia dudes in New Vegas!" and than working backwards to justify that. How did that even work? Did he just give them a bunch of Godfather holotapes and say "This is your life now"? If we're comparing them directly Fallout 4's explanation makes far more sense.

They don't really change their culture. When interacting with them in their quests it becomes pretty obvious the Three Families are still largely violent, fairly simplistic tribals, just with better weapons and forced to wear a cultured facade by House. The Omertas are just thugs that gladly back the Legion, and the White Glove Society still practices cannibalism because it's part of their tribal culture; the only one's that really seem to fully embrace their new life is the Chairmen.

Again, I think it all comes down to actual execution and writing. The Three Families have actual substance to them and exist as part of a greater narrative. The Triggermen barely exist outside of Nick's quest and seem to have been created because someone went, "We need some new enemies for this. Any ideas?" "Uh, mobster ghouls?" "Yeah, fine."
 
Look, when I said I'd take care of her and we could run away together I just meant for the night. She should really get off my back.



Yeah like the New Vegas factions! Like the Elvis cosplayers who cosplay as Elvis because they thought it was a pre-war religion. Much more logical, less wacky, a strong backstory that Obsidian is known for! Or the Mafia cosplayers on the Strip! With their deep backstory of "Mr.House told them to cosplay and they did"! Yeah, when you look at them side by side New Vegas is clearly less wacky than Fallout 4 with characters like that.

Honestly, the Kings thinking Elvis impersonation was an actual pre-war religion would be one of the less wacky things about Fallout precisely because a lot of the old pre-war culture got nuked and same goes for Caesar's Legion. It seems tacky and goofy, but the execution is a lot better than what we see in Fallout 4 and it explicitly addresses the issue of pre-war culture being seen as alien and unknown to most wasteland tribals.

Caesar himself explicitly says he picked Ancient Rome as the inspiration of his army because the tribals had no knowledge of the pre-war world and had no idea that they were cosplaying and LARP'ing.

Even Boone using a T-Rex as a sniper's nest makes sense because it's a tourist trap that actually exists in Nevada in real life. Hell, it was even in the Pee Wee Herman movie.

Right. Because it is totally logical for a tribe to change their entire culture (including the way they act in private) based on pre-war culture that they have no way of seeing or interacting with because someone told them to do it to attract customers. This definitely wasn't "Hey you know what would be cool? Lets have mafia dudes in New Vegas!" and than working backwards to justify that. How did that even work? Did he just give them a bunch of Godfather holotapes and say "This is your life now"? If we're comparing them directly Fallout 4's explanation makes far more sense.

Like everyone else already pointed out, the Three Families are descended from three tribes and Mr. House did give them all the old pre-War Vegas stuff for them to emulate. But to be honest, I think the Omertas you see in New Vegas probably aren't the original tribals but more like a later generation, so they probably think this cosplay stuff is a real thing.
 
>Old World Blues
The point of OWB and the other New Vegas DLCs is to give you a different experience from the main game.
Yes, it's not "true Fallout" and that's by design. It's a completely optional side adventure that doesn't touch the main world.
 
Another example of a faction that has absolutely no explanation is the Gunners. Yeah, they attacked the Minutemen at Quincy, but who's directing them? What set them down the path of taking contracts for money? Where did they get the idea to imitate the US Army? No one fucking knows, because the game doesn't explain. The only dialogue in the game that has you question where they come from has Deacon reply "I dunno". Ultimately they're no different from the Talon Company in 3: they exist to be slightly higher tier raiders to shoot.

It's not like Bethesda is incapable of writing backstory for enemy mook factions, either, the Forsworn have an actual reason for what they do and are fleshed out in the lore.
 
Another example of a faction that has absolutely no explanation is the Gunners. Yeah, they attacked the Minutemen at Quincy, but who's directing them? What set them down the path of taking contracts for money? Where did they get the idea to imitate the US Army? No one fucking knows, because the game doesn't explain. The only dialogue in the game that has you question where they come from has Deacon reply "I dunno". Ultimately they're no different from the Talon Company in 3: they exist to be slightly higher tier raiders to shoot.
Do you think the bethesda hat theory is correct?
The saying goes that there is a hat at bethesda studios and whenever devs get a cool idea they write it on a piece of paper and put it in the hat.
Then somebody takes the hat and tries to make a story out of those ideas.
That's how you end up with quests such as "kid survives apocalypse in the fridge" ripped from a indiana jones scene and such.
Basically one liners that get turned into a quest for no reason or thought put into them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: c-no and 2021Murder
Another example of a faction that has absolutely no explanation is the Gunners. Yeah, they attacked the Minutemen at Quincy, but who's directing them? What set them down the path of taking contracts for money? Where did they get the idea to imitate the US Army? No one fucking knows, because the game doesn't explain. The only dialogue in the game that has you question where they come from has Deacon reply "I dunno". Ultimately they're no different from the Talon Company in 3: they exist to be slightly higher tier raiders to shoot.

It's not like Bethesda is incapable of writing backstory for enemy mook factions, either, the Forsworn have an actual reason for what they do and are fleshed out in the lore.

There are some interesting ideas around the Gunners but for some reason they just never seem to come together. For one thing, I like the implication (never spelled out) that they've V'GER'ed their name from their apparent HQ: GNR Headquarters. GNR, Gunner, get it? It's interesting, but they never do anything with it.

Much more interesting, and much more frustrating, is the possibility that they're the result of the Vault 75 experiment. That's the one that's located under a school, where kids were bred for fighting traits or administrative/science know-how. Exactly what happened to that Vault is unclear, though it seems the test subjects found out what was going on and rebelled. No reason to connect the Gunners to it ... except they've taken over the Vault. The idea that they're securing the place where they all came from is super-intriguing, but nothing is done with it.

Anyway, having a mercenary company that's rational enough for people to hire them for jobs but who attack you no differently from Raiders 95% of the time (and 100% of the time outside specific quests) is as much of a waste of time as these unexplored plot threads.
 
Do you think the bethesda hat theory is correct?
The saying goes that there is a hat at bethesda studios and whenever devs get a cool idea they write it on a piece of paper and put it in the hat.
Then somebody takes the hat and tries to make a story out of those ideas.
That's how you end up with quests such as "kid survives apocalypse in the fridge" ripped from a indiana jones scene and such.
Basically one liners that get turned into a quest for no reason or thought put into them.

If that's true, I don't see why it would be the cause of a problem. People come up with cool sounding ideas for every kind of media and real life stuff and drop the ball on the implementation, making it seem stupid from the outset.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mola Ram
Back