Fallout series

Something Neo-Confederate. Like some bastard, inbred plantation families in the Deep South, who maintain control based on creating a cult of worship around Robert E Lee, the politicians of that era and the CSA. And who maintain a monopoly on near limitless power thanks to the crops they cultivate. Just hideously disgusting, with a lotta incest and pseudo-intellectualism based on stuff like eugenics and how they're of better stock.

If Fallout Miami doesnt include inbred Floridamen, and the Confederacy isnt involved, total missed opportunity.
. This is one explored in the HOI4 Fallout Mod, but a civilised gang of raiders. Thing the Powder Gangers, but with a bit of heart. Raiders who are really just young, dumb kids who want to revel in the spotlight. Sort of degenerate zoomers who want to avenge their captivity at the hands of their masters, but also want to build their own nirvana of sex, drugs and rock and roll in some cozy part of America.

Not gonna lie, I thought that'd what the Atom Cats were going to be when I went into Fallout 4 blind, but i was kinda dissapointed.
4. A doomsday cult at Yellowstone National Park, trying to bring about a permanent extinction of humanity by stockpiling as many Mini Nukes as possible, for the purposes of exploding them and causing irreversible damage beyond the already fucked nuclear war.

5. Another one based on the HOI4 mod, but Mexicans wanting to LARP as Santa Anna and the Mexican soldiers who once had reign over Texas. Wanting to create a new Mexican Empire, and in turn having to compete with people who've degenerated into Mayan and Aztec LARPers.

I love these ideas too. The Mexican faction reminds me of the cartel guys who boiled a college kid's brain to avoid karmic justice from the cops, and I can really see the ways Mayan and Aztec rituals could flavor and pervert the group for a Fallout series
 
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As for me, I already put my two cents on what I'd want in the next Fallout game in the Frontier thread, and as a big Enclave fan, I don't even care about "originality" so long as the factions are fun to play as. For me, I'd have the Fallout 4 East Coast Brotherhood of Steel go full fundamentalist and go back to the original teachings of the Brotherhood (ie. wiping out mutants, hoarding tech), and have them go up against a super-state controlled by Robert Edwin House that is a resurrection of America, after having devoured the NCR and the Legion, and after they decimated the Western Brotherhood of Steel. Canonically, I'd have the Brotherhood ending be canon for Fallout 3 and Fallout 4, and the House ending will be canon for New Vegas.

Robert Edwin House's United States of America, known by outsiders as the Vegas Enclave, sees itself as the rightful heir to the America of old, and it even claims to be the continuation of said regime. Being a capitalist, House obviously agrees with pre-war American exceptionalism and capitalist values. The people in this "New America" believe that America was right during the Cold War, that capitalism and working hard to earn your bread is the right thing to do, and that Cold War American Exceptionalism and capitalist ideas should once again be dominant. House is going on a Justinian-esque crusade to restore the American dream to the lands of its birth, and he seeks to destroy any retrograde influence that stands in the way. House still retains his fanatical hatred of the Brotherhood of Steel, and after he made concessions which led him to taking over the NCR and the Legion, he used their combined forces, as well as the help of Enclave remnants, to eradicate the West Coast Brotherhood, once and for all.

Meanwhile, the Brotherhood under Arthur Maxson, after having defeated the East Coast Enclave and the Institute, see themselves as the true heirs to civilization. They see the old world's values as dangerous, as it led to nuclear annihilation and the downfall of civilization. They see House handing away technology from the Big MT, the Sierra Madre, and the Enclave to random twats who join him as dangerous, since in their view, the Brotherhood should be the lone organization that should keep technology out of the hands of the wastelanders who might misuse it. After having fought the East Coast Enclave which dreamed of restoring America, the Brotherhood concluded that it was time to move on from the dream of restoring America, and it's time to accept the fact that it's not coming back, and that humanity should instead move forward and create something new, under the Brotherhood's protection, of course. The news of House's eradication of the West Coast Brotherhood eventually led the East Coast Brotherhood under Maxson to radicalize even further, seeing the Vegas Enclave as a threat, and eventually, both sides expand towards Louisiana, the site of their eventual conflict.

I would of course, shamelessly pander to Enclave and Brotherhood fans by rehashing the Enclave-Brotherhood War. Those two fanbases are the biggest ones aside from the Legion, so to get their attention, I'd include their factions. I'd have a story that takes place years after Fallout 4, where the Enclave manages to rebuild itself in the west while the Brotherhood takes over more of the East Coast after winning in DC and in Boston. I'd have it so that the New Vegas story ended with Robert Edwin House winning control of the Mojave with his Securitron Army and the Courier taking control of Hoover Dam.

Inspired by the Courier's use of ex-Enclave personnel in Hoover Dam, and seeing the need for a technologically advanced force that goes beyond his Securitron Army, House, with some persuasion from the Courier, Arcade Gannon, and the Enclave Remnants in the Mojave, invites other ex-Enclave personnel to go to New Vegas and sign on with him, which then leads to hundreds of ex-Enclave personnel and their descendants going to New Vegas, bringing their fighting skills, tech, and their expertise to House's cause.

At the same time, the NCR's failure to annex the Mojave has caused it to collapse from within. Spending a massive fortune to pay for the occupation of the Mojave, only to have no financial or political returns on it, has caused a strain on the NCR's economy. The NCR economy further gets strained by people leaving for New Vegas, spending their money there and working in the new tech sector jobs House provides by having ex-Enclave people help him set up new factories to produce technology. This causes the NCR's economy to collapse, further weakening the NCR and making it vulnerable to attacks from enemies like raiders, gangs, monsters, and the California Brotherhood of Steel.

Seeing the need for stability in California, House offers to aid the NCR if they submit to the rule of New Vegas, promising that he would use Vegas' wealth to aid in the NCR's recovery. With his factories producing more securitrons, energy weapons, and power armor, and his city being richer than ever from the casinos and the tech sector jobs, the NCR agrees, and House bails out the NCR from its financial troubles while at the same time, newly-produced securitrons and newly-trained "Vegas Enclave" troops start wiping out any threats like raiders and irradiated monsters, while driving the California BoS back to their bunkers. With Kimball being unpopular at the time, House was easily able to fill the void, and many NCR citizens looked to House's wiser leadership, seeing the prosperity of the Mojave under him and hoping that he can do the same for the NCR.

The Legion's failed attempt to conquer the Mojave also caused it to slowly break apart. Many Legion veterans died in the assault on Hoover Dam, victims of the securitrons' and the Enclave Remnants' superior firepower. Lanius, the once-mighty general of the Legion, had his reputation sullied by him retreating from the battle. This caused internal rebellions to pop up from within the Legion. Tribes that had once done everything Caesar asked are now re-asserting their identities and rebelling. With Lanius having little in the way of charisma, and Caesar becoming sick due to his brain tumor, the Legion also starts to fall apart as the NCR had. However, with all the trade routes that run through Arizona and New Mexico, House sees the Legion's problems as his problems, and he sends the Courier and some Enclave Remnants along with some securitrons and a detachment of NCR Rangers under Colonel Moore to assist Caesar's loyalists and keep the peace in Legion territory.

With the Legion falling apart, Lanius had no choice but to accept House's support, but Colonel Moore and Arcade Gannon managed to force Lanius to free most of the slaves in the Legion territories and pay them for their labor, with female slaves becoming freed laborers who are paid for both their work and for each child they bear and give to the Legion. After defeating the rebellious tribes and forcing them to swear allegiance to the Legion, the Enclave remnants sent Arcade Gannon to perform brain surgery on Caesar, which healed him of his brain tumor. Lanius then informs him that both him and the Legion now owe their new lease on life to House and his minions. With the Legion forces intimidated by the Enclave remnants and the securitrons, and Caesar owing his life to an Enclave doctor, Caesar has no choice but to swear allegiance to House, who accepts his oath of fealty in exchange for keeping the trade routes through his territory clear.

It was at this moment that some survivors from the East Coast Enclave under President Eden, as well as some survivors of the Boston Commonwealth's Institute, arrived at the west. Both groups were fleeing from the wrath of the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel, which has crushed President John Henry Eden's Enclave as well as the Commonwealth Institute under their iron boots. After arriving in Vegas through Legion territory, these survivors offered their aid to House, giving his forces the more up-to-date Enclave technologies like their newer power armors, as well as the Institute's technology in creating synths. Having created a makeshift synth production facility in an Enclave Base Crawler used by the East Coast Enclave, the Institute sought to prove their usefulness to Robert Edwin House by creating a synth body for him.

In less than a month after making contact, Robert Edwin House, who for centuries had been cooped up in his isolation chamber in the Lucky 38, was now able to walk freely in the streets of his beloved Vegas as a new man. The Courier and the Institute worked together to have House's brain implanted on a new synth body made in House's likeness, and the ruler of Vegas, the NCR, and the Legion was now able to walk around and survey his territories personally. Thanking the newcomers for their aid, House asked them what they would want in return. The survivors from Eden's Enclave and the Institute had just one request for their generous offerings: to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel, once and for all. House already had a smoldering hatred for the Brotherhood of Steel, so it was no surprise when he accepted the request.

Starting with the California Brotherhood of Steel, House sent the combined might of his forces, from the securitrons, to the Enclave forces (which now had remnants of both Richardson's and Eden's forces) along with the NCR Rangers and the Legion forces, to attack the California Brotherhood of Steel. Using a recent Brotherhood attack on a newly-built power armor production plant in California as his excuse, House had the California Brotherhood exterminated down to the last man. Leading the charge was Colonel Cassandra Moore, who hates the Brotherhood, Legatus Lanius, who had a reputation of eradicating the enemy down to the last man, and members of the East Coast Enclave, who were still bearing grudges against the Brotherhood of Steel.

The California Brotherhood fought bravely, but the war was futile, as House's forces now had access to newly-made power armor and energy weapons on a massive scale, as well as the numbers needed for a prolonged fight. With the Brotherhood forces fighting with antiquated armors and limited stores of energy weapons, and House's forces having no such limits, it didn't take long before the California Brotherhood was annihilated, their remaining forces surrendering after losing their remaining bunkers. House showed no mercy to the Brotherhood forces who surrendered, allowing Lanius and Moore to do as they pleased with their defeated foes. Lanius and Moore had a compromise: Moore had all the male Brotherhood paladins and scribes shot by NCR Ranger firing squads, while Lanius had the female Brotherhood members stripped of their armors and robes and set to Legion territory to be auctioned off as wives to ranking officers and veterans for a job well done.

House was elated with his recent victory. With morale soaring among the NCR, Legion, and Enclave ranks, and with his Enclave minions petitioning him for a revival of the old United States, House declared himself the new President of the United States, unifying his holdings in the Mojave, the NCR, and the Legion into a new American state. Officially, House calls his new domain "the United States of America", but those outside it continued to call it the "Vegas Enclave", refusing to recognize House's legitimacy as the President of the United States.

This new American state expanded eastward, forcing all territories it comes across to recognize the sovereign authority of the revived United States of America, with many tribes and communities who refused being annihilated by the bizarre combination of Legion, NCR, and Enclave forces, while communities and tribes who bent the knee got the benefits of education, technology, and protection from the harmful elements of the wasteland, courtesy of the new president and his forces. He then made a pact with Joshua Graham of the New Caananites, giving his protection to the tribes of Zion National Park in exchange for Joshua Graham becoming his new vice president.

Meanwhile, the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel, having defeated President Eden's Enclave in DC with the help of the Lone Wanderer and having defeated the Commonwealth Institute with the help of the Sole Survivor, was standing strong, gobbling up most of the East Coast United States and moving back westward. They made contact with and absorbed the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel, and as they expanded westward, they followed a singular pattern: they would leave communities in their territory alone, so long as they hand over all pieces of technology the Brotherhood sees fit to confiscate. Under Arthur Maxson, the Brotherhood swayed away from Elder Sarah Lyons' policy of protecting communities and instead focused on eradicating threats to their power as well as collecting technology.

The Lone Wanderer parted ways with the Brotherhood after Sarah Lyons' death, while the Sole Survivor was distraught over the death of the Institute leader, who happened to be their son, Shaun, causing the Sole Survivor to leave the Brotherhood as well. But despite their absence, the Brotherhood continued to grow as they recruited wastelanders into their forces, eradicated super mutants, ghouls, and synthetic life forms, and moved westward. After hearing of the California Brotherhood's destruction at the hands of Robert Edwin House and his forces, and upon hearing that elements of Eden's Enclave and the Institute have taken up residence in House's capital of New Vegas, Arthur Maxson declared war on Robert House, just as House also sought to destroy Arthur Maxson and his Brotherhood of Steel at the behest of the same people who gave him a new body and a new lease on life.

The two forces eventually meet in New Orleans, Louisiana. Apparently, Louisiana was used as a testing ground for weapons. Upon finding out that a prototype for a clean nuclear reactor was in the works in Louisiana before the bombs fell, and after both sides learned that an intelligent Super Mutant general and his minions have taken over the facility for the prototype reactor and were on the verge of finishing it, both the "Vegas Enclave" and the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel mobilized their forces for Louisiana, intending on seizing the reactor and destroying their enemy. Joshua Graham leads the combined forces of the Vegas Enclave along with General Cassandra Moore and Legatus Lanius, while Arthur Maxson personally leads the Brotherhood of Steel forces. Graham and his forces are using a Mobile Base Crawler to transport their elite troops, while Arthur Maxson is flying towards Louisiana on the Prydwen with his best Brotherhood forces.

You are a vault dweller from Vault 151, a vault that has its doors open, trading with local communities. It was a vault that was designed to reflect American family values before the bombs fell, and the vault has a rather "homely" feel where the neighbors and the Overseer all act nicely and politely towards you and each other. Recently, the Super Mutant attacks have the Vault Overseer at unease, and when a Super Mutant attack on your vault (which happens to be the tutorial segment) ends with more than half of your people dead and a crucial piece of technology stored in your vault stolen by the mutants, your overseer sends you to retrieve that crucial piece of technology.

At first, the bombed-out ruins of Louisiana don't have much civilization outside of other vaults and communities that have been isolated from the rest of the world. You begin your private war with the Super Mutants who raided your home and killed many of your childhood friends, but at the same time, scouting forces from both the Brotherhood and the Vegas Enclave start showing up. Legion and NCR troops accompanied by a handful of Enclave soldiers in power armor, a few Brotherhood scouts accompanied by the odd Paladin, but as the conflict escalates and you get closer to taking down the Super Mutants, both sides increase their presence, as more Legion Centurions, NCR Rangers, and power-armored Enclave troops show up to pick fights with increasing numbers of Brotherhood Paladins. Eventually, you get the access codes to the base where the Super Mutant general lives, meaning that you now have in your hands what both sides want: the keys to that prototype reactor that the mutants were finishing.

Once you're about to launch your final assault on the Super Mutants to take down their leader, both sides want to talk to you and get you on their side. On paper, they wish to see justice served and they want you to get revenge against the monsters who attacked your home, but in reality, they want to be with you when you crack open that base so they can take that reactor. That's when the point of no return kicks in; once you helped one side get to the reactor first, the other side declares you persona non grata and shoots you on sight.

You then have to go with one side or the other, and both sides have flaws. The Vegas Enclave shoots dissident communities on sight and forces all communities on their side of the map to join them or else, but they provide free technology, education, and protection for all communities who join. The Brotherhood of Steel isn't so authoritarian, unless they find out you have technology that they want, which means they'll kill you for it if you don't hand it over. While the Enclave shoots people who don't join them, the Brotherhood confiscates tech from those they deem unworthy. You see Enclave troops burning down settlements that have refused their offers one too many times, while the Brotherhood troops sack communities who don't want to hand over their tech to the Brotherhood.

So while you will see the Enclave gunning down communities that don't swear allegiance, they won't have a problem with a non-aligned player walking around with power armor and energy weapons so long as you don't shoot them. However, while the Brotherhood leaves the communities in their territory alone, if you walk around in their turf with power armor or energy weapons without having good rep or membership with them, and one of their patrols happens to run across you, they will ask you to hand over that tech. You can barter with them for it and get them to pay you to hand over the tech, or you can hand it over for free in exchange for good rep with them, but if you resist, they will shoot you.

The war begins once you've brought the prototype reactor to one side or the other, and the side you brought it to declares you one of their own and gives you a list of quests to help them tip the balance of power to their side before the final battle. There's main quests, given to you by Maxson or Graham, and there's side quests, given to you by other commanders and officers on the Prydwen or the Enclave Base Crawler. The final battle begins once you've finished the main quests, but finishing the side quests will make the final battle easier by weakening the enemy or adding friendly assets to help your forces out. The final battle has the Enclave's Mobile Base Crawler move to get in range of the Brotherhood's Prydwen airship so they can target it for a bombardment.

Brotherhood players have to board the Mobile Base Crawler after fighting off the Enclave's elite ground troops, then go from floor to floor clearing out NCR Rangers, Legion Centurions and Praetorians, and finally, Enclave elite forces and securitrons. Whereas the Enclave players have to protect the Base Crawler and destroy Brotherhood vertibirds trying to board it and kill off Brotherhood forces that manage to get inside the base crawler or on top of it. Brotherhood players have to face off against the likes of General Moore (who wears Sierra Power Armor and has NCR Ranger snipers for backup) Legatus Lanius, (who has Legion Centurions and Praetorians with ballistic fists and thermic lances for backup) and the top floor have the OG Enclave Remnants from New Vegas and securitrons backing up Joshua Graham for the final fight. Whereas the Enclave players have to face off against Henry Casdin, Star Paladin Cross, then Arthur Maxson, as each one leads waves of vertibirds and ground troops, trying to sabotage or destroy the Mobile Base Crawler.

Winning the battle for your side has the faction in question declare you their new champion and giving you lordship over New Orleans, with their troops saluting you and their base having disposable soldiers that you can use as party members alongside other party members you may have. The map will also have bonus bosses like sapient Deathclaws, Super Mutant Behemoths, an insane, renegade version of Liberty Prime that's gone out of control in a nearby factory, and a crazy AI that has its own robot army of assaultrons to sic at you. You can keep playing after the main story ends, to explore the map and play DLC missions that get released at a later date.

The "Vegas Enclave" (or the United States of America under House) basically has many things that were good and bad about America rolled into one package. Manifest Destiny, inclusion of diverse elements, capitalism, jingoism, and McCarthy-style paranoia about Communism, except this time, it's been changed so that they're paranoid against the Brotherhood of Steel.

Robert Edwin House is at the center of this new Enclave, since he is the new Enclave President, and he sees the Brotherhood of Steel as a relic of a bygone age of darkness when America was at its nadir. He sees them as relics of the Dark Ages, stifling progress while cosplaying as knights, while House sees himself as an enlightened man practicing the same enlightenment values the Founding Fathers preached, reviving America and leading mankind to a new future where they will eventually explore the stars.

While House has nothing against religion (indeed, he even makes compromises with churches that survived the apocalypse, especially Joshua Graham's Mormon Church) House does have a bone to pick with what he sees as superstitions that make no sense and have no value to the outside world, the primary example of that being the Codex of the Brotherhood of Steel, its ideas, its beliefs, and the way it preaches to the Brotherhood that they must keep technology to themselves while leaving the wastelanders to their fate. House sees that ideology as a complete waste.

The way House sees it, technology must be shared, and the wastelanders have to be uplifted. He manages the Vegas Enclave the exact same way he managed New Vegas. He uplifts tribes and communities who accept his rule, eradicates those who resist, and those tribals and primitives who are accepted into the system have the "tribal" taken out of them and forcibly civilized, the same way America tried to eradicate Indian culture by sending Indian boys to boarding schools to make them good little WASP boys in Indian skin. Once uplifted, these newly-civilized folk are made to work in factories, farms, and the service sector, or made into soldiers for the cause. Following a similar pattern to Caesar's Legion, House has large tribes and families either assimilated or broken up, has tattoos burned off, and forces mixed-race marriages to eradicate any previous loyalties, and with Caesar and the Legion helping him in that regard, House carries this pattern out, day by day, as they conquer lesser tribes on their march eastward.

Like Emperor Justinian before him, House seeks to bring the ideas of America back to the land that gave birth to it, just as Justinian sought to return the Roman Empire to its splendor by reconquering the lands that gave birth to the Empire to begin with. And like the Americans of the past, the Vegas Enclave has this "Manifest Destiny" idea that everything from sea to shining sea belongs to them, and they long for the day when they can take Washington DC from the Brotherhood of Steel and restore the American capital to glory. Some of the Enclave soldiers serving in House's armies were former East Coast Enclave troops under President John Henry Eden, and they've been looking for a chance to get some payback against the East Coast Brotherhood that drove them out of their nation's capital.

America's diversity is also part of the Vegas Enclave's makeup. The Vegas Enclave military is a hodge-podge of ex-NCR soldiers and Rangers, Legion troops, Enclave power-armored soldiers, and Securitrons, all under a single command structure. Each part of the Vegas Enclave military has its own operating procedures, even though by the end of the day, the Enclave soldiers sit at the top, commanding both California and Legion troops underneath their heel. The best of the latter two are admitted into the Enclave and given power armor, though some choose to stay within their respective groups due to nostalgia.

From the NCR Rangers, the Vegas Enclave forces learn survival skills out in the wild and accuracy with high-caliber ballistic weapons. From the Legion soldiers, the Vegas Enclave forces took their robust training regimen, their practice of taking healthy young boys to be trained as soldiers, and their proficiency with melee weapons. Other groups such as the Boomers and religious groups like the New Canaanites also contributed, with the Boomers teaching the Vegas Enclave their extensive knowledge on using explosives and bomber aircraft, while New Canaanites and other religious fighters serve as battle chaplains on the front lines, preaching the Good News while wielding weapons like .45 automatic pistols. And of course, the Enclave soldiers themselves teach power armor training and the use of energy weapons to new recruits.

However, the bad parts of each army also filtered into the Vegas Enclave and its military. NCR and Enclave soldiers have a propensity for shooting criminals and fugitives on sight, something which didn't go away when they were united under the umbrella of House's Enclave forces, and the Legion's propensity for cruelty also seeped in, with Vegas Enclave forces taking up their practices of torturing, beheading, crucifying, and enslaving those who did not bend the knee to them. Seeing power-armored Enclave troopers burning down whole towns and crucifying important dissidents with the help of Legion Centurions while NCR Veteran Rangers form firing squads to execute the rabble amongst the rebels is an increasingly common sight.

Like pre-war America, House's Enclave has a very "with us or against us" vibe going on. The constant propaganda that the civilians are bombarded with about life under Brotherhood control goes from realistic (people are constantly robbed of technological gadgets the Brotherhood sees fit to take from them) to exaggerated. (The Brotherhood butchers entire communities for having forbidden knowledge that they want to keep to themselves.) However, there are certain inklings of truth even in their propaganda broadcasts, as many of these tales are usually eyewitness accounts from people who fled Brotherhood territory for Enclave turf. Insults that the Legion once used against the NCR are used by the Enclave populace against the Brotherhood of Steel and its supporters, with the word "profligate" used often, as House sees the Brotherhood as profligates for wasting their technological resources on a petty preservation of power instead of helping to uplift mankind back from the Dark Ages.

Many intelligent Super Mutants, ghouls, and synths flee to Enclave territory, fearing the genocidal wrath of the Brotherhood, and the Vegas Enclave takes them all in, with House using them as propagandizers to rally support against the Brotherhood. Unlike past Enclave leaders, House has no problems with ghouls or Super Mutants, and he himself resides in a synth body, so he has no problem tolerating them so long as they follow his laws.

Local citizens are rewarded for turning in Brotherhood spies, while anyone accused of working with the Brotherhood of Steel are jailed at best, and executed at worst, with those who carry out Brotherhood operations on Enclave soil usually getting crucified, although some do end up getting enslaved if they were physically fit or desirable in the eyes of some buyers. Propaganda posters denouncing the Brotherhood are all over Enclave towns and cities, while major plays, TV shows, movies, and radio dramas based on the horror stories about Brotherhood rule have become some of the most popular media in Enclave territory, with some ghouls, synths, and super mutants even becoming rich celebrities for their acting roles in such works.

Speaking of celebrities making a killing, capitalism is in full force in House's America. Brahmin barons, landowners, factory owners, and other business leaders have many privileges in society, down to the point where they became a sort of nobility in the new Enclave. However, there is a limited form of welfare encouraged by groups like the New Canaanites and the Followers of the Apocalypse, and many people live content lives due to the fact that the government provides for education, medicine, technology, and new farming methods have allowed them to produce food at an astonishing rate. However, charity outside of religious leanings is still mostly frowned upon, and aside from the continued demonization of Communism, children are taught that America's capitalist values were always correct. The kids in schools are made to learn about how Mr. House built a corporate empire through his ingenuity and hard work, and they are taught to follow that example. House encourages those with bright young minds and potential to work for him in exchange for wealth, recognition, and fame.

The Brotherhood of Steel, on the other hand, has its own propaganda and its own views on the world. They see themselves as fighting the same war they were fighting all the way back in Fallout 2. They see themselves as the heirs of civilization, protecting humanity from making the same mistakes all over again, and to them, House is repeating the mistakes of the past. They see him as a dangerous renegade, giving away technology like power armor and energy weapons to savages, and upon learning that he's part-synth, to them, he's an inhuman abomination who should have died long ago.

Arthur Maxson's Brotherhood recalls the glory days of defeating the Master and his Super Mutant Army, of their victories against the Enclave in California and Washington DC, and their triumph against the Institute in the Boston Commonwealth. Upon learning that synths, Super Mutants, ghouls, and members of the East Coast Enclave have joined with House, the Brotherhood began seeing House's Enclave as the amalgamation of all the enemies they fought in the past, a representation of everything wrong in the wasteland, and they acted as if the Vegas Enclave was some sort of "final enemy" that has all their former enemies in one convenient package for them to blow up.

The Brotherhood, having been victorious in their previous battles thus far, continued to be set in their cultish ways. Arthur Maxson has his men teach their students the same lessons that the Brotherhood Codex taught initiates for years: that savages in the wastelands should not be allowed to have their hands on such dangerous technology. They see House giving away gifts like securitrons, power armors, and energy weapons to the profligates of the NCR and the savages of the Legion, and they see it as if House was giving away nuclear weapons to cavemen. They see more and more people wearing Enclave armors with pride, and many Brotherhood Paladins grow angry, remembering the days when Enclave soldiers gunned down wastelanders without a care in the world. They see House expanding his power and eradicating entire communities who don't bow down to him, and they take it as proof that House isn't out to revive America, but to just increase his own power at the expense of others.

After learning of the California Brotherhood's destruction at the hands of House's forces, Arthur Maxson's Brotherhood had their elite guard, known as the "Avengers of Steel", dress up in black and red armor to commemorate the dead, with black as the traditional color for mourning the dead, and red, to symbolize the blood of their California brothers whom they see as martyrs.

The people of the Brotherhood of Steel continued to mock the idea that House's "United States" is a revival of America, insisting instead that House is acting like every self-aggrandizing warlord in history, and that he's just using the symbols of old America to support his drive for power. To a certain extent, they are correct, as House's America is more authoritarian than America was during its golden years, but not during its pre-war years. Upon learning that House took over Caesar's Legion, Arthur Maxson once joked that House would be more fit to be called "Kaiser" than "President", which led to the Brotherhood Paladins calling the Enclave President "Kaiser House", an obvious reference to the autocratic Kaiser Wilhelm II and his aggressive expansion policy before World War 1.

The Brotherhood sees itself as the true inheritors of post-apocalyptic America, tracing their ancestry back to members of the United States Army who deserted upon finding out about the evils of pre-war America, and to them, fighting House is a war against the same evil system that Roger Maxson rebelled against. The Brotherhood continued to teach its students about the flaws of pre-war America, and in Arthur Maxson's mind, trying to revive the horribly flawed nation that ruled the land before it got nuked shows that House and his ilk have learned nothing from the nuclear war.

The fact that House continued to give away freely things that Arthur Maxson saw as dangerous technology made House an easy target for propaganda in Brotherhood circles, where he is portrayed as a madman who didn't care about the delicate balance of the wasteland. They compare House's brutal and imperialistic approach to outside tribes and communities to how tribes and communities in Brotherhood territory are left alone to manage their own affairs, and they take that as proof positive that they are the true defenders of democracy and freedom, while House's Enclave is just a mockery towards democracy and the American way that they say they serve.

The Brotherhood's actual record towards the communities under its umbrella, however, are mixed. While for the most part, they have eradicated groups of Super Mutants and ghouls that posed a threat, the Brotherhood also has a record of forcibly confiscating technology from places without the locals' consent. They had no problems taking bits and pieces of tech from Rivet City, Diamond City, and any other town that may have technology they deem fit to keep to themselves. At one point, they came across a town that used power armor and laser weapons to keep a bunch of Deathclaws at bay, but since the Deathclaws never threatened the Brotherhood, the Brotherhood came in and took the town's laser weapons and power armors for their war effort against the Enclave, leaving the town to fend for itself with low-caliber guns to use against the Deathclaws, which led to the town getting annihilated. Other towns and cities that resisted having the Brotherhood confiscating their tech would typically get sacked by the Brotherhood forces, with any Brotherhood members who objected to this sort of behavior getting expelled from the group.

At the same time, some communities who are attacked by human raiders get almost no help from the Brotherhood, since they're not being attacked by Super Mutants, ghouls, or synths, and so long as the raiders steered clear of any Brotherhood patrols and didn't hoard tech to themselves, they were left alone, forcing these towns and cities to arm themselves with ballistic weapons to fend off the raiders. Some paladins do occasionally help out against raiders, but usually because they felt like it, not because they were ordered to. The official standing order from Elder Maxson is to focus on mutant and synth threats, while preparing for the big war against the Enclave, so going off adventuring and killing raiders on their own was discouraged among the Paladins, as it would damage assets like power armors and waste valuable resources like energy weapon ammo on foes that were beneath the Brotherhood's notice, especially since, as some of the more senior Paladins point out, the larger towns and cities are perfectly capable of defending themselves with ballistic weapons.

Speaking of towns and cities, in a stark contrast as to how they are managed in Enclave territory, towns and cities in Brotherhood turf are mostly left alone, so long as they are mostly populated by humans. Similar to how many worlds in the 40K Imperium of Man are managed, many settlements have their own governments and ways of dealing with things, while paying simple lip service to the Brotherhood and occasionally sending out scavengers to find tech to trade with the Brotherhood for supplies. Some settlements have elections and councils, others have autocracies or a single magnate in charge. The Brotherhood cares little for how they manage things so long as things are peaceful, and so long as they keep the ghouls in line and turn over anyone who is a synth or a super mutant. This, of course, means that society in Brotherhood territory isn't as organized or as efficient as that of the Vegas Enclave's, especially since the Brotherhood gives little thought on developing communities and building up settlements, and worry more about scavenging tech and keeping it to themselves.

The Brotherhood's bias against ghouls, super mutants, and synths are still in full effect, especially since with the latter two, they were the enemies in the Brotherhood's past wars. Arthur Maxson still sees super mutants and synths as inhuman abominations who are a threat to humans, and those caught harboring synths or super mutants are considered guilty of a capital offense. They are either executed on the spot or enslaved by the Brotherhood by having them fitted with bomb collars and dispatched to help find tech in dangerous scavenging sites, with a Brotherhood agent ready to blow their heads off their shoulders should they run or resist. Ghouls are discriminated against and are kept restricted to ghettos, they are forced to register themselves and their communities. If they so much as insult a Brotherhood member, the ghouls can be shot on the spot without it being registered as a crime.

This explains why many ghouls, super mutants, and synths have been fleeing towards Enclave territory, where House doesn't care who they are so long as they serve him. Within Brotherhood territory, there is an "underground railroad" formed by super mutants, synths, and ghouls who have established themselves in House's lands, and they work to bring underground communities of ghouls, super mutants, and synths to Vegas Enclave territory where they bring their horror stories of being persecuted or hunted by the Brotherhood to the people of the west, where their wild tales become the stuff of movies and other media.

Enclave spies and refugees are also seen as persona non grata in Brotherhood lands. Just as Brotherhood agents are hunted in Vegas Enclave lands, so too are Enclave agents and remnants hunted down like dogs in Brotherhood territory, and civilians are paid well when turning them in. Remnants of the Enclave who were trained in the use of power armor and energy weapons are given one chance to join the Brotherhood, and if they refused, they are shot on sight or enslaved by scavenger teams with bomb collars. Enclave spies are captured and tortured before being executed. However, with the Legion training Frumentarii for the Vegas Enclave, the Brotherhood has a harder time ferreting out Vegas Enclave spies, as these Frumentarii are capable of infiltrating even the highest levels of the Brotherhood's command, with some even making it into Arthur Maxson's elite guard, giving House a good picture of what goes on in Arthur Maxson's court.

Basically, while the Vegas Enclave runs similarly to the Galactic Empire in Star Wars, this efficient bureaucracy that controls all cities and towns and has multiple groups pulling together under the leadership of one man, the East Coast Brotherhood runs more like the Imperium in 40K, where local settlements are rarely visited unless there's an actual problem the Brotherhood are interested in, be it technology, or fugitives from the Brotherhood's "justice".

This goes to show a real contrast in between the two systems, where the Brotherhood doesn't care what you do so long as you don't cross them, while the Enclave does care about who you work with, but they also care about protecting and helping you if you're on their team. This way, we don't just have two groups of idiots in power armor shooting each other, we have two groups that are ideologically different in every way. House and the Vegas Enclave sees reviving pre-war civilization as the way forward, the Brotherhood sees that as a folly and instead works with the new society of the wasteland instead of trying to turn it back into pre-war America. House wants to share technology and control everything, the Brotherhood doesn't care about control outside of keeping all the tech to themselves. The Brotherhood has a cultish view informed by their dogmas, while House is more pragmatic and looks to the future where he hopes to have the world cleaned up so he can go explore space for new worlds to colonize.
 
I'd like to see the NCR and the Shi return if they did a game in San Francisco (something not too farfetched after Bethesda told Obsidian to cut a line of dialogue that talked about the Enclave nuking it), and squabbling remnants of Caesar's Legion if the Southwest gets portrayed again (one could be trying to reunite by force, another could be trying to forge its own path with technology, and another could be trying to reconcile their tribal roots with their indoctrination). Should we get a chance to visit Chicago, the Enclave branch there and the Midwestern BOS are a must just to see how much of Tactics gets carried over to official canon.

If the new version of Creation can support ground vehicles, a biker gang would be neat to see.
 
I'd like to see the NCR and the Shi return if they did a game in San Francisco (something not too farfetched after Bethesda told Obsidian to cut a line of dialogue that talked about the Enclave nuking it), and squabbling remnants of Caesar's Legion if the Southwest gets portrayed again (one could be trying to reunite by force, another could be trying to forge its own path with technology, and another could be trying to reconcile their tribal roots with their indoctrination). Should we get a chance to visit Chicago, the Enclave branch there and the Midwestern BOS are a must just to see how much of Tactics gets carried over to official canon.

If the new version of Creation can support ground vehicles, a biker gang would be neat to see.
I was wondering how they'd finish the NCR-Brotherhood War, especially when it comes to the topic of the California Brotherhood. With the war in the Mojave secured for either the NCR, the Legion, or Vegas, the NCR would obviously turn towards this particular thorn on their behind. I can see a victorious NCR taking it easy with them since the NCR is still euphoric over its victory against the Legion, but a defeated NCR that had to run away with its tails between its legs from the Mojave would obviously turn violent against the Brotherhood, venting their frustrations towards the Legion or Vegas onto the California Brotherhood, using the Brotherhood as a punching bag to remind the people of California that the Republic is still a force to be reckoned with.
 
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I was wondering how they'd finish the NCR-Brotherhood War, especially when it comes to the topic of the California Brotherhood. With the war in the Mojave secured for either the NCR, the Legion, or Vegas, the NCR would obviously turn towards this particular thorn on their behind. I can see a victorious NCR taking it easy with them since the NCR is still euphoric over its victory against the Legion, but a defeated NCR that had to run away with its tails between its legs from the Mojave would obviously turn violent against the Brotherhood, venting their frustrations towards the Legion or Vegas onto the California Brotherhood, using the Brotherhood as a punching bag to remind the people of California that the Republic is still a force to be reckoned with.
(Can't reply to your Fallout 5 post directly)

One thing I would note is that there shouldn't be a large amount of Synths or Super Mutants fleeing to the Enclave.

The supermajority of Synths would have been with the Institute which in a Brotherhood ending is blown to bits, limiting the amount of human looking Synths significantly with follow up Brotherhood investigations meaning there should only be a small handful of Synths left to be persecuted by the Brotherhood.

Likewise, Super Mutants in the East are almost exclusively cannibalistic raiders with each East Coast game only having one or two non savage Super Mutants to interact with (I think less than 10 sane Super Mutants are on the East Coast).

So I think it would be almost exclusively ghouls that would be fleeing the Brotherhood in your scenario.
 
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I was wondering how they'd finish the NCR-Brotherhood War, especially when it comes to the topic of the California Brotherhood. With the war in the Mojave secured for either the NCR, the Legion, or Vegas, the NCR would obviously turn towards this particular thorn on their behind. I can see a victorious NCR taking it easy with them since the NCR is still euphoric over its victory against the Legion, but a defeated NCR that had to run away with its tails between its legs from the Mojave would obviously turn violent against the Brotherhood, venting their frustrations towards the Legion or Vegas onto the California Brotherhood, using the Brotherhood as a punching bag to remind the people of California that the Republic is still a force to be reckoned with.

I'm looking forward to fully reading your pitch, but I did skim through some of it

I personally wondered what'd stop House and an intelligent Courier from reaching the Institute for the events of Fallout 4, especially if the Courier explored and conquered all of Big MT (portable teleportation is an underrated advantage for cross country travel)

While the Institute pales in comparision to the resources of House and Big MT, it does have one thing they dont: Synths. Imagine what'd House would do if he can combine his longevity tech with a near perfect fasimile of a human being?

Not that we should ignore the lands in between, Id love to see creatures that spawn out outside the Mississippi, but the literal clash of east and west would be legendary
 
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(Can't reply to your Fallout 5 post directly)

One thing I would note is that there shouldn't be a large amount of Synths or Super Mutants fleeing to the Enclave.

The supermajority of Synths would have been with the Institute which in a Brotherhood ending is blown to bits, limiting the amount of human looking Synths significantly with follow up Brotherhood investigations meaning there should only be a small handful of Synths left to be persecuted by the Brotherhood.

Likewise, Super Mutants in the East are almost exclusively cannibalistic raiders with each East Coast game only having one or two non savage Super Mutants to interact with (I think less than 10 sane Super Mutants are on the East Coast).

So I think it would be almost exclusively ghouls that would be fleeing the Brotherhood in your scenario.
There could still be enough Synths that survived the Institute or escaped the chaos as the Brotherhood assaulted it.

As for the Super Mutants, most of the ones fleeing to the west are from the Midwestern territories being taken over by the Brotherhood, not from the East Coast, since by that time, most East Coast Super Mutants were dead.

I'm looking forward to fully reading your pitch, but I did skim through some of it

I personally wondered what'd stop House and an intelligent Courier from reaching the Institute for the events of Fallout 4, especially if the Courier explored and conquered all of Big MT (portable teleportation is an underrated advantage for cross country travel)

While the Institute pales in comparison to the resources of House and Big MT, it does have one thing they don't: Synths. Imagine what'd House would do if he can combine his longevity tech with a near perfect facsimile of a human being?

Not that we should ignore the lands in between, I'd love to see creatures that spawn out outside the Mississippi, but the literal clash of east and west would be legendary
It's not just a clash of East and West, but a clash between two schools of thought within the Fallout fandom:

One wants to have a world where people have moved on from America and are building something new. The other wants to bring America back, warts and all. Hence why the Brotherhood of Steel in my Fallout 5 remembers the glory days of Fallout 1 and 2 where they fought the Super Mutants and the Enclave, whereas to the Vegas Enclave, they try to bury that part of history and act as if their reborn state is America back from the grave.

It's the same case with the Fallout fandom; many Enclave fans, including myself, think that Fallout's American society should bounce back from the nuclear apocalypse, just as Old Rome's power bounced back after the Dark Ages in the form of a new empire centered around the Medieval Papacy and the Holy Roman Empire, or how Ancient Greek civilization found new life as the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire. But fans of the first two Fallout games want to make it clear that the pre-war America is gone for good, that it can never return, that pre-war America's faults caused their own downfall, and that society as a whole should move on. Hence why fans could join one faction or another based on what they believe in.

And the reason why the Vegas Enclave tolerates mutated creatures like sapient ghouls, intelligent super mutants, synths, and even sapient Deathclaws is that they're capitalist, just like old-world America was. They're led by an old-world capitalist who only cares about the bottom line. So long as you bend the knee and make money for the state, you're fine. But from the Brotherhood's perspective, such aberrations are leftovers from the nuclear apocalypse that must be cleansed for their new society to grow, and the Brotherhood has traditionally been hostile to non-human sapients, even ones that can talk and be reasoned with. Hence why House's America is more tolerant than the Brotherhood, since he doesn't give a wet fart so long as you operate within his parameters and do as he asks, while the Brotherhood has an in-born hatred of all things mutant.
 
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There could still be enough Synths that survived the Institute or escaped the chaos as the Brotherhood assaulted it.

As for the Super Mutants, most of the ones fleeing to the west are from the Midwestern territories being taken over by the Brotherhood, not from the East Coast, since by that time, most East Coast Super Mutants were dead.
But would there be enough Synths to justify being a significant persecuted minority? Remember, the only way to create new Synths is through the Institute and that's destroyed. Human looking Synths would already be a small portion of the Commonwealth population, combine that with the majority being killed in a Brotherhood ending and a Brotherhood controlled Commonwealth actively looking to finish the job and I can only really see a dozen or so Synths surviving or at the very least making their way West.

So Maxson would control the East Coast and the Midwestern Brotherhood?
 
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But would there be enough Synths to justify being a significant persecuted minority? Remember, the only way to create new Synths is through the Institute and that's destroyed. Human looking Synths would already be a small portion of the Commonwealth population, combine that with the majority being killed in a Brotherhood ending and a Brotherhood controlled Commonwealth actively looking to finish the job and I can only really see a dozen or so Synths surviving or at the very least making their way West.
Many of these synths were also spread out in the wild, impersonating one person or another. And of course, the Brotherhood eventually reverse-engineered Institute technology so they have scanners that allow them to know how to tell a synth from the person that the synth is cloned from, and civilians in Brotherhood territory are well-rewarded for turning them in. Needless to say, these synths joined intelligent super mutants and ghouls in trying to flee westward into the embrace of House's America, since at least there, they might get rude remarks from the populace, but the government will protect them so long as they bend the knee, and they can make a decent living working for the rich capitalists who form the elite of the Vegas Enclave.

So Maxson would control the East Coast and the Midwestern Brotherhood?
Eventually, yes. With the West Coast Brotherhood having been totally annihilated, Arthur Maxson's East Coast Brotherhood became the strongest Brotherhood faction around, due to the weight of their numbers and the spoils of war that they've taken from the East Coast Enclave and the Institute. Being the heir of the great Roger Maxson, Arthur Maxson has the authority and the muscle to "ensure" that the Midwestern Brotherhood branch cooperates with him. They defer to his authority and are eventually absorbed into the ranks of his army. However, dissatisfied members of the Midwestern Brotherhood have been known to disobey orders now and then. Some of them even pass on critical intel to Vegas Enclave spies, having been recruited by the Vegas Enclave as double-agents, working with imbedded Enclave Frumentarii to sabotage the Brotherhood from within while hiding their disgust with Arthur Maxson's ways......
 
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I feel like you're just ignoring the overall things I want to address in replying to you, so Ill just reiterate my position.

It's one thing to just dislike the aesthetic choices Bethesda made and leave it at that, but you aren't making much of a case for the conclusion that said choices are narratively disingenuous and unrealistic.

The two generations of Fallout obviously had different visions of the universe, and they individually take from different inspirations of the post apocalypse, but they're still thought through and justified in their respective lore. You can argue it's back breaking mental gymnastics, but that's just the nature of talking about vidya game lore online.
No, I'm not digging at aesthetic choices, there could be any number of justified reasons for why Diamond City looks like it does. I'm saying that several of the residents in Diamond City are basically equivalent to rich snobs in our modern day but Diamond City doesn't reflect that supposed sophistication. As in, again, Bethesda wants its cake and to eat it too. They want easy modern day character archetypes like rich snobs but they didn't think about what including the archetype would imply about the state of the world. For instance, the rich snobs in New Vegas have their own casino that they keep immaculately clean and have basically the Fallout equivalent of world class dining. That's what you'd expect. Anyways, this is a dumb discussion and got incredibly off track.
 
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No, I'm not digging at aesthetic choices, there could be any number of justified reasons for why Diamond City looks like it does. I'm saying that several of the residents in Diamond City are basically equivalent to rich snobs in our modern day but Diamond City doesn't reflect that supposed sophistication. As in, again, Bethesda wants its cake and to eat it too. They want easy modern day character archetypes like rich snobs but they didn't think about what including the archetype would imply about the state of the world. For instance, the rich snobs in New Vegas have their own casino that they keep immaculately clean and have basically the Fallout equivalent of world class dining. That's what you'd expect. Anyways, this is a dumb discussion and got incredibly off track.

It's entirely aesthetic decisions that dictate the layout of places like Diamond City, or whether abandoned buildings still have corpses or not. That's the reason why this discussion began, right?

While I cant dictate your opinions on the direction given for Fallout, I can maintain that said direction is narratively sound and justified, even if it doesn't sit well with you.
 
It's entirely aesthetic decisions that dictate the layout of places like Diamond City, or whether abandoned buildings still have corpses or not. That's the reason why this discussion began, right?

While I cant dictate your opinions on the direction given for Fallout, I can maintain that said direction is narratively sound and justified, even if it doesn't sit well with you.
The start of the discussion was that the series was always about moving from the post-apocalypse to the post-post-apocalypse and then a tangent began on whether it was good writing to have people that act like they're in the modern day but don't really repurpose all the old houses and buildings sitting around Boston, and whether aesthetic decisions can clash with the storytelling we're given, which then got onto whether it's because of Super Mutants or other bad shit running around. The original point was still very much that the series was never intended to be Mad Max forever. Bethesda moved the series to the east coast so they could keep that tone and invented narrative reasons for it afterwards. It's perfectly fine that they did that because, sure, different parts of the country could be at different stages of rebuilding, but it would be better to make sure that the characters were sometimes more tailored around that. I am not a dyed in the wool Bethesda hater by any means, I've defended them when it comes to modern day Elder Scrolls several times and said I don't want modern day Obsidian anywhere near the franchise. It's still okay to criticize them for some of their decisions, such as aesthetics clashing with worldbuilding or reusing factions and things like Super Mutants from older games over and over.
 
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The start of the discussion was that the series was always about moving from the post-apocalypse to the post-post-apocalypse and then a tangent began on whether it was good writing to have people that act like they're in the modern day but don't really repurpose all the old houses and buildings sitting around Boston, and whether aesthetic decisions can clash with the storytelling we're given, which then got onto whether it's because of Super Mutants or other bad shit running around. The original point was still very much that the series was never intended to be Mad Max forever. Bethesda moved the series to the east coast so they could keep that tone and invented narrative reasons for it afterwards. It's perfectly fine that they did that because, sure, different parts of the country could be at different stages of rebuilding, but it would be better to make sure that the characters were sometimes more tailored around that. I am not a dyed in the wool Bethesda hater by any means, I've defended them when it comes to modern day Elder Scrolls several times and said I don't want modern day Obsidian anywhere near the franchise. It's still okay to criticize them for some of their decisions, such as aesthetics clashing with worldbuilding or reusing factions and things like Super Mutants from older games over and over.

I never meant to insinuate that you were a blind Bethesda hater, nor am I adverse to criticise the company. In fact, I don't enjoy their radiant quest cycles, the quantity-over-quality attitude on npcs and locations. I also dislike Bethesda's insistance on dungeon-like environments, and question their use of leveled enemies. That's very much symptomatic of other titles like Elder Scrolls

However, I do think Bethesda's strongest trait is their art direction and worldbuilding, and there hadn't been many moments when I felt taken out of the immersion of the Bethesda titles. While that direction clashes with their questionable level design, I never saw it an issue of narrative or art direction.

I also disagree on your opinion on Super Mutants, as they're an integral aspect of Fallout like ghouls and Vault Boy's 50s charm. I like the concept of different strains of FEV that explain why eastern super mutants are so different from those from the west, and they make for some sense of intrigue unique from that of Elder Scrolls.

I think every Fallout game has their own strengths and weaknesses, and trying to force, say, Fallout 4, to adhere to Fallout 1 and 2 is never going to make anyone satisfied.
 
But I'd like to hear from you guys. What would YOU make as a new faction if you were given carte-blanche by Microsoft and Bethesda to design a Fallout game, with no limits attached?
During the Battle of Hoover Dam, the Great Khans quickly evacuated Red Rock Canyon and headed north and east into the plains of Wyoming. There, they reconnected with the Followers of the Apocalypse and rebuilt their strength. Bolstered by ancient knowledge of governance, economics, and transportation, they carved a mighty empire out of the ruins of the Northwest.
Wyoming Khanate, as mentioned in one of the Khan ending slides in New Vegas. Buddy buddy with the Followers, and well-informed on how to manage and organize everything across large tracts of land. Keep the biker aesthetic going, maybe even have some working bikes, and have the NCR start fucking with them because they're Great Khans, and war never changes.

"Hey NCR, want to buy some medical supplies? We've got all the Med-X, Hydra, and Anti-Rad you could want thanks to the Followers helping us out."
"You want to deal CHEMS? In the NCR? UNACCEPTABLE!"
 
I think every Fallout game has their own strengths and weaknesses, and trying to force, say, Fallout 4, to adhere to Fallout 1 and 2 is never going to make anyone satisfied.
The point of criticizing some of the newer games, outside the small minority of people who are so autistic that they want actually Fallout to be isometric again and such, isn't to say that they don't have strengths. It's to say, "why couldn't Fallout 4 have good gunplay and world exploration while still keeping the RPG elements and thematic plotting that we all know and love." I think I've said it before in this thread or another, and both extremes of the Bethesda debate are bad at this, it's not an either/or.
 
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The point of criticizing some of the newer games, outside the small minority of people who are so autistic that they want actually Fallout to be isometric again and such, isn't to say that they don't have strengths. It's to say, "why couldn't Fallout 4 have good gunplay and world exploration while still keeping the RPG elements and thematic plotting that we all know and love." I think I've said it before in this thread or another, and both extremes of the Bethesda debate are bad at this, it's not an either/or.

That's completely valid. I do feel that the vision of Fallout that Interplay and Bethesda are just incongruous with each other, which is why Obsidian's handling of New Vegas was so beloved as a bridging of two generations of Fallout. Even then, New Vegas doesnt satisfy everyone either.

For instance, I'm sure you fell in love with the bleak post apocalypse that Fallout originally offered, but I personally enjoyed the post-post apocalypse and wackiness of Fallout 2 and New Vegas.

This conversation we're having is one that's a decade old now, and at this point I want to appreciate what each title offers rather than bemoan and have false hopes for something that wont likely happen.

But maybe Ill be proven wrong. After all, I did enjoy Outer Worlds and their dlc, and Im looking forward to Obsidian and Bethesda working together again under Microsoft.
 
That's completely valid. I do feel that the vision of Fallout that Interplay and Bethesda are just incongruous with each other, which is why Obsidian's handling of New Vegas was so beloved as a bridging of two generations of Fallout. Even then, New Vegas doesnt satisfy everyone either.

For instance, I'm sure you fell in love with the bleak post apocalypse that Fallout originally offered, but I personally enjoyed the post-post apocalypse and wackiness of Fallout 2 and New Vegas.

This conversation we're having is one that's a decade old now, and at this point I want to appreciate what each title offers rather than bemoan and have false hopes for something that wont likely happen.

But maybe Ill be proven wrong. After all, I did enjoy Outer Worlds and their dlc, and Im looking forward to Obsidian and Bethesda working together again under Microsoft.
Fallout 2 was always my favorite of the Interplay games, actually. I prefer the rebuilding of society over a world that feels like the bombs dropped just a decade or so ago. It was novel in 1, and 3 doing it on the east coast was still fine, but it definitely wore out its welcome by 4 and especially 76. 76 at least does take place right after the bombs dropped, at least. And I agree that the discussion is worn out, but I've seen a lot of people just sort of default to defending Bethesda because some of their critics are obnoxious and repeat the same points over and over, and I think that often allows Bethesda to keep messing up in the places where they usually mess up. Point is, yeah, both extremes do no favors to the series.
 
Fallout 2 was always my favorite of the Interplay games, actually. I prefer the rebuilding of society over a world that feels like the bombs dropped just a decade or so ago. It was novel in 1, and 3 doing it on the east coast was still fine, but it definitely wore out its welcome by 4 and especially 76. 76 at least does take place right after the bombs dropped, at least. And I agree that the discussion is worn out, but I've seen a lot of people just sort of default to defending Bethesda because some of their critics are obnoxious and repeat the same points over and over, and I think that often allows Bethesda to keep messing up in the places where they usually mess up. Point is, yeah, both extremes do no favors to the series.

The largers issues Bethesda do have are unfortunately more a difference in philosophy than competence. Which is the same criticisms for Fallout 4 can be leveled to a game like Skyrim or ESO. Doesn't help the lead game developer has...questionable opinions on quest design.

We rightfully do question the writing in what should be a role playing game, but not even the best writer can do much when there's people interested in shoehorning something else.

To bring an entirely different game for example, Sonic the Hedgehog now has a brilliant writer to write the story for Sonic Frontier, Ian Flynn. Flynn is responsible for not only salvaging the Archie Sonic comics, but is the head of the Sonic IDW comics, some of the best storytelling Sonic had. But none of that is able to come out of what's been shown of Frontiers, and Im sure there'd be people who'll criticise the story even with someone like Flynn writing it.
 
The largers issues Bethesda do have are unfortunately more a difference in philosophy than competence. Which is the same criticisms for Fallout 4 can be leveled to a game like Skyrim or ESO. Doesn't help the lead game developer has...questionable opinions on quest design.

We rightfully do question the writing in what should be a role playing game, but not even the best writer can do much when there's people interested in shoehorning something else.

To bring an entirely different game for example, Sonic the Hedgehog now has a brilliant writer to write the story for Sonic Frontier, Ian Flynn. Flynn is responsible for not only salvaging the Archie Sonic comics, but is the head of the Sonic IDW comics, some of the best storytelling Sonic had. But none of that is able to come out of what's been shown of Frontiers, and Im sure there'd be people who'll criticise the story even with someone like Flynn writing it.
Didn't Flynn write a script for Forces that was so laughably bad it was rejected in favor of the one that was used in game?
 
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