Fallout series

[Maurice Caine]

"You must find X" has been the basis for every Fallout game, not just the Bethesda games. 1 had you be a Vault Dweller looking for a water chip, 2 had you be a Tribal looking for a GECK, and New Vegas had you be a Courier looking for Benny & the Platinum Chip. People can argue for motivations all they want, finding something has always been the basis for every Fallout narrative, so I'm not sure why Bethesda gets singled out for it (well, I have a suspicion regarding certain portions of the Fallout fanbase).

I would say NV is more about revenge than the platinum chip but yeah I get your point. Van Buren had an interesting concept in which you were a fugitive from an NCR correctional facility.

 

[Snekposter]

At least Fallout 3 had The Lone Wanderer sort of "earning" the attention of both factions through the events of the main game. In New Vegas they really are counting on you going off and doing quests, which works from a gameplay perspective but not from a character perspective if that makes any sense.

To be fair, coming back from the grave kinda earns one a reputation. House lets you into the Lucky 38 as the first person ever since the bombs fell (earning you a visit from the NCR ambassador because the man needs an in and you're it), and the Legion sends you an invite because walking into a casino and offing one of the heads isn't exactly child's play... assuming you do that, but if Benny escapes Caesar decides to make use of the bad blood between you two to his own ends.

 

[Mega Black]

The fucker wants his chip, dipshit.

Seethe more dumb fuck. If your autism addled brain could process things beyond a fundamental level you'd understand.

you have a sensical explanation for why you're a highly-militarized bug-stomper in the most dangerous part of post-nuclear america, and a believable motive for why you want to intertwine yourself with the main conflict of the story

I honestly wouldn't mind a Fallout without a heavy handed core motivation honestly. I understand stories need hooks and other gay shit like that to get people interested, but some of the most fun I've had with these games is when I install an alternate start mod and just get dumped into the world with freedom to come up with my own motives for everything.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Seethe more dumb fuck. If your autism addled brain could process things beyond a fundamental level you'd understand.

That's not me seething. That's the man being honest. House wants that chip, and he needs it NOW.

Otherwise, he's fucked when the Legion or the NCR win at the dam, because they'll obviously turn around and come for him. No chip means no Securitron upgrade or army, no Securitron upgrade or army, he's fucked when the Legion or the NCR come to take Vegas by force once they're done fighting over Hoover Dam.

 

[The handsome tard]

A kid that, in the Sole Survivor's eyes, was kidnapped moments ago. They literally go 'regular Saturday Morning -> nuclear Armageddon -> frozen in the Vault -> Shaun kidnapped and spouse killed -> thawed to see all neighbors dead' in an hour's worth of memories. Fallout 4 has a lot to shit on, but the dogged pursuit of their kid is fully understandable.

When you put it that way, its actually really fucking amazing that the Sole Survivor doesnt go apeshit insane from all the trauma. I would still be hoping its all a bad dream after leaving the vault and seeing all I knew reduced to ashes.

Really makes it seem like TSS was going after Shaun because they legit had nothing else and focusing on him helped them remain relatively sane.

I don't mind the dogged pursuit, but it makes it hard for anyone that actually likes to roleplay in this RPG. No sane parent will just shrug off their kidnapped baby to do menial tasks for random wastelanders.

Honestly, I think we just gotta accept that this is something that most RPGs suffer from. Its not just Bethesda, or Fallout, its even amazing ones like Mass Effect trilogy, KOTOR and the list goes on and on. You are supposedly on a time limit but not really apparently (and F1 adding an actual time limit wasnt particularly fun so...suspension of disbelief then).

To be fair, coming back from the grave kinda earns one a reputation. House lets you into the Lucky 38 as the first person ever since the bombs fell (earning you a visit from the NCR ambassador because the man needs an in and you're it), and the Legion sends you an invite because walking into a casino and offing one of the heads isn't exactly child's play... assuming you do that, but if Benny escapes Caesar decides to make use of the bad blood between you two to his own ends.

Yeah, I suppose that actually makes sense.
Even tho its actually better gameplay wise to do most stuff in Act 1 so you get a reputation clean slate entering Act 2.

I honestly wouldn't mind a Fallout without a heavy handed core motivation honestly. I understand stories need hooks and other gay shit like that to get people interested, but some of the most fun I've had with these games is when I install an alternate start mod and just get dumped into the world with freedom to come up with my own motives for everything.

Oh oh, I got it! its really original. How about we are a prisioner and we are then freed and then........................wait a minute

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Oh oh, I got it! its really original. How about we are a prisioner and we are then freed and then........................wait a minute

GOD DAMN IT TODD YOU DID IT AGAIN! YOU GOT US TO BUY SKYRIM BUT WITH GUNS!

 

[Snekposter]

Oh oh, I got it! its really original. How about we are a prisioner and we are then freed and then........................wait a minute

"Hey, you, you're finally awake. Got caught crossing the border with us and that Brahmin thief over there."

 

[Vault Boy]

"Hey, you, you're finally awake. Got caught crossing the border with us and that Brahmin thief over there."

"Damn you Legionaries. The Mojave was fine until you came along. NCR was nice and lazy. If they hadn't been looking for you, I could've stolen that brahmin and been halfway to California."

 

[Mega Black]

That's not me seething. That's the man being honest. House wants that chip, and he needs it NOW.

You can say this as many times as you want but it's still wrong. Your fanfic has no bearing on anything. Keep seething. Keep coping.

Even tho its actually better gameplay wise to do most stuff in Act 1 so you get a reputation clean slate entering Act 2.

I think there are several major quests you're heavily incentivized to do in Act 1 because the game flows best if you do that. The ghoul rocket one, the powder ganger stuff, meeting Vulpez, turning on the reactor. House and Benny are kind of in a stalemate at the start of the game so it stands to reason that you'd have some time to dick around and get side jobs done while on the way to Vegas.

DLCs have always felt much more like an Act 2 thing to me, though. Maybe because they're geared towards characters with higher levels. Something about doing all the DLCs before killing Benny just seems wrong and like an incorrect order of events. Then again, Lonesome Road should have taken place after The Battle for Hoover Dam anyway so they've always felt kind of out of place time-wise.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You can say this as many times as you want but it's still wrong. Your fanfic has no bearing on anything. Keep seething. Keep coping.

It's no fanfic. It's the truth. House needs the chip to upgrade his Securitrons and awaken the majority of his army. No courier means no chip, no chip means no army or upgrades for his robots, which means he's screwed if the final battle starts without him, because whoever wins will screw him over since he doesn't have upgraded securitrons or an army. It's even a major criticism that has been levied towards House by many fans of the NCR and the Legion that everything in his plan hinges on that one delivery, and how foolish that is.

 

[The handsome tard]

that everything in his plan hinges on that one delivery, and how foolish that is.

Then again, he was suppose to get that chip much earlier but then something called nuclear war happened before he could get his still fresh hands on it. He just doesnt have a good track record with delieveries I guess.

Thats what happens when you want to cheap out on expresso, lol

 

[Lone Star]

Honestly, I think we just gotta accept that this is something that most RPGs suffer from. Its not just Bethesda, or Fallout, its even amazing ones like Mass Effect trilogy, KOTOR and the list goes on and on. You are supposedly on a time limit but not really apparently (and F1 adding an actual time limit wasnt particularly fun so...suspension of disbelief then).

At the very least, with Mass Effect 3, the sidequests are sort of part of the main mission. Just about everything you do bolsters the war assets a bit. In any case, I guess I get on Fallout's case because of just how much there is to do to waste time with compared to other games. You can spend a hundred hours doing stuff while avoiding the main quest altogether. Doesn't help that, in Fallout 4's case especially, the main quest is extremely personal.

 

[Snekposter]

You can say this as many times as you want but it's still wrong. Your fanfic has no bearing on anything. Keep seething. Keep coping.

I think there are several major quests you're heavily incentivized to do in Act 1 because the game flows best if you do that. The ghoul rocket one, the powder ganger stuff, meeting Vulpez, turning on the reactor. House and Benny are kind of in a stalemate at the start of the game so it stands to reason that you'd have some time to dick around and get side jobs done while on the way to Vegas.

DLCs have always felt much more like an Act 2 thing to me, though. Maybe because they're geared towards characters with higher levels. Something about doing all the DLCs before killing Benny just seems wrong and like an incorrect order of events. Then again, Lonesome Road should have taken place after The Battle for Hoover Dam anyway so they've always felt kind of out of place time-wise.

I don't know about major quests, but the Powder Ganger stuff for sure, helping out Ghost and Jackson at the Outpost, possibly even getting a Sheriff for Primm in My Kind of Town... anything in that SW corner exclusively is meant to be done before you cross east over into the Vegas area proper.

It's no fanfic. It's the truth. House needs the chip to upgrade his Securitrons and awaken the majority of his army. No courier means no chip, no chip means no army or upgrades for his robots, which means he's screwed if the final battle starts without him, because whoever wins will screw him over since he doesn't have upgraded securitrons or an army. It's even a major criticism that has been levied towards House by many fans of the NCR and the Legion that everything in his plan hinges on that one delivery, and how foolish that is.

Except you've already lost the chip at game start, and House is more likely than not to just enlist someone else if the Courier doesn't feel like playing along. He wants the Chip, not the Courier, and Benny has the Chip and is safely back in his casino. You don't throw good assets after bad, and House would be unhappy not angry. You'll note he's not all that furious with Benny for betraying him, mostly just disappointed, both with Benny for obvious reasons and himself for thinking tribals could make for useful and loyal employees. However you do track down Benny, even if just for revenge, and then House makes you an offer to become his protege.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I don't know about major quests, but the Powder Ganger stuff for sure, helping out Ghost and Jackson at the Outpost, possibly even getting a Sheriff for Primm in My Kind of Town... anything in that SW corner exclusively is meant to be done before you cross east over into the Vegas area proper.

Except you've already lost the chip at game start, and House is more likely than not to just enlist someone else if the Courier doesn't feel like playing along. He wants the Chip, not the Courier, and Benny has the Chip and is safely back in his casino. You don't throw good assets after bad, and House would be unhappy not angry. You'll note he's not all that furious with Benny for betraying him, mostly just disappointed, both with Benny for obvious reasons and himself for thinking tribals could make for useful and loyal employees. However you do track down Benny, even if just for revenge, and then House makes you an offer to become his protege.

For some ungodly reason, House waits for you to get the chip instead of asking someone else to retrieve it from Benny on the Tops. In my first playthrough, I machine-gunned everyone at the Tops, took the chip from Benny's cold, dead hands, and gave the chip to House. Then I wondered "is that it? Is that all he needed?" House could have paid some jet-addled merc from Freeside to do the job. Instead, he waits for you and relies on you to make the delivery.

 

[Snekposter]

For some ungodly reason, House waits for you to get the chip instead of asking someone else to retrieve it from Benny on the Tops. In my first playthrough, I machine-gunned everyone at the Tops, took the chip from Benny's cold, dead hands, and gave the chip to House. Then I wondered "is that it? Is that all he needed?" House could have paid some jet-addled merc from Freeside to do the job. Instead, he waits for you and relies on you to make the delivery.

Gameplay reasons, my man. Something you are completely incapable of understanding.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Gameplay reasons, my man. Something you are completely incapable of understanding.

Oh, I understand it completely. They call it "gameplay and story segregation."

Narrative-wise, the Courier hurried to New Vegas to get the chip and deal with Benny, not only because of legal obligations that can end with a second bullet to the brain, but because of revenge. Gameplay-wise, the Courier could have faffed around and beat the DLC missions before setting foot in Vegas.

In the same vein, narrative-wise, the Sole Survivor hurried to get their kid, but gameplay-wise, faffed around for God knows how long building settlements and finishing sidequests.

It's the same deal with both games, and you people just don't want to admit it.

 

[CWCissey]

Pretty sure that's what everyone said from the start Autismo...

 

[TheArtilleryman]

Next Fallout should start as you just being a generic vault citizen, the vault gets raided/malfunctions or whatever, and you're ejected in to the wasteland. No pre-amble, no macguffin, no lost relatives, just a blank slate with no background beyond what your own build and headcanon dictates.

Let the main quest line be something you can get tangled up with later, it doesn't need to be outlined and given a personal connection to your character before you start playing. It could involve a prevalent problem that becomes apparant the more you explore the world and eventually you are organically presented and/or stumble upon opportunities to get involved in this quest from numerous different angles and faction alliances that all play out differently.

I feel like this would be the closest we could get to true role playing freedom in a Bethesda style game.

 

[Mega Black]

Doesn't help that, in Fallout 4's case especially, the main quest is extremely personal.

This is why it feels much more egregious in Fallout 4. Your BABY is stolen from you, the SS is characterized as deeply caring about the child and almost everyone understands that the moral imperative to rescue a small child is more important than gunning down ghouls.

At least in Fallout 3 you can rationalize fucking around a bit because your dad is a grown ass adult who abandoned you. You're not the one with the moral imperative to find him, he was in the wrong for leaving you. On the surface of it, 'you have to find this person you like' is a good inciting incident for getting people out into an open world to explore, but it winds up grating on the back of the player's mind and reflects poorly on them as a moral judge of character.

New Vegas is smart in that the objective at the start is characterized through the lens of vengeance, or at the very least personal curiosity, which is something you will have to go out of your way to seek out. The world won't end if you take a stop in a town to do some odd jobs for extra pocket money. Benny might get away, someone might come after you to ask questions about the chip, but there's nothing that you can't shrug off at the end of the day.

But in Fallout 4 someone might be fucking dissecting your infant. That's always going to be niggling at the back of the player's mind and makes the SS look like a lunatic, even if you want to play them as someone who is morally upright.

At the very least, with Mass Effect 3, the sidequests are sort of part of the main mission. Just about everything you do bolsters the war assets a bit.

Except for stuff like dancing in the club. Shepard gyrates while Earth burns.

It's the same deal with both games, and you people just don't want to admit it.

Seething.

Next Fallout should start as you just being a generic vault citizen, the vault gets raided/malfunctions or whatever, and you're ejected in to the wasteland. No pre-amble, no macguffin, no lost relatives, just a blank slate with no background beyond what your own build and headcanon dictates.

I'd personally prefer being a generic wastelander since it offers more room for character history. I'd love it if the game had like a 'background select', maybe tied into classes, that offer you a potential background and different set of starting gear for your character. That'd be a lot of fun, I think.

I actually almost like that about 76, that you wake up after a big party in the Vault and just waltz out to begin your adventure in the open world. No obnoxious tutorial setpiece, no heavy-handed exposition, just you, your pip-boy, and the wide open world. Shame the rest of the game is such a shitshow.

Let the main quest line be something you can get tangled up with later, it doesn't need to be outlined and given a personal connection to your character before you start playing.

And for the love of God don't force a random backstory on the PC with the final DLC.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Pretty sure that's what everyone said from the start Autismo...

No, they were all "it's realistic for the Courier to faff around but not the Sole Survivor!"

Realistic my ass. As if Fallout is anywhere close to realistic.