Fallout series

Actual Bethesdrone.
To be fair, NMA isn't much better when it comes to defending F1, 2 and NV. They jump through the same amount of hoops when it comes to discussing weird writing decisions in those game's stories.

I once saw a discussion where they theorized the Wasteland Survival Guide in New Vegas wasn't the same one as the F3 one because "It wouldn't be realistic for Moira's book to reach the West Coast so clearly this is just someone else's book with the same cover and name!" That was their unironic argument to that odd writing decision.
 
ITT: delivery note sperging

Regarding the delivery note, I assume it's just some sort of protocol that Johnson Nash has never bothered to change over the years.

Perhaps Mojave Express' policy become lax as the years have gone by, so that notice doesn't really reflect current policy? If you talk to Mr. Nash himself he's actually pretty cool about it and doesn't threaten you with getting the chip back at all.

I mean, my theory isn't too far-fetched as even in reality some companies still rely on old ass policies written decades ago that no one bothered to change by today's standards.

Or perhaps that's just a minor plot hole, really. And we are being autistic over something that even Obsidian didn't give much of a thought to.

The threat on the not could have probably been enforced, if it wasn't for the fact that putting in timed quests in open world games ended in disaster for Bethesda, so Obsidian decided not to go through with it.
 
ITT: delivery note sperging

Regarding the delivery note, I assume it's just some sort of protocol that Johnson Nash has never bothered to change over the years.

Perhaps Mojave Express' policy become lax as the years have gone by, so that notice doesn't really reflect current policy? If you talk to Mr. Nash himself he's actually pretty cool about it and doesn't threaten you with getting the chip back at all.

I mean, my theory isn't too far-fetched as even in reality some companies still rely on old ass policies written decades ago that no one bothered to change by today's standards.

Or perhaps that's just a minor plot hole, really. And we are being autistic over something that even Obsidian didn't give much of a thought to.
There's no plot hole or even oddity about it. At most you could say that the Courier might get fined or something because the package was lost, regardless of the circumstances. The argument's based on the autistic assumption that because the Courier was robbed, Benny isn't to blame and the Courier has to get the chip back or else the Mojave Express will hire mercenaries to find him and kill him, or have the NCR shoot him on sight, on top of the equally autistic assertion that that was Obsidian's plan and they just didn't do it because of gameplay reasons. There's literally nothing supporting these assertions and literally nothing in the game to suggest them, they're weird headcanon/fanfic.

There are dumb writing decisions in 1, 2, and NV, but there are reasons why those decisions are dumb and you don't have to make up reasons yourself. Running into Mike Tyson in 2 is dumb because it's a weird pop culture reference that's funny but not really reasonable in the lore. It's not dumb because "Well if Mike Tyson exists then how come the war happened when the US would've just sent him to go box with China's leaders and make them surrender? That's what would've happened but Black Isle didn't do it because there'd have been no war. That's so stupid and it's just as bad as 4's writing so stop complaining!"
 
Last edited:
Sure hope Microsoft does something to get new Fallout games done faster than the 2030s, if only so you guys can have something new to bitch at each other about. The idea that we could have about 8 more years of squabbling over games from 2010 and 2015 makes me sad. I don't even know if that TV show is going to be... "interesting" enough to give us new material to bitch about (unless it pulls some truly heinous shit like that Halo TV show did).
I'd hope that for every gaming studio because this is getting ridiculous. We're literally depending on projects like Fallout London and then we can't be sure it's gonna be another Frontier situation (although I always thought the gunplay in FO4 to be fun so if you give me new baddies to shoot I don't care)
 
If I had to imagine anyone sending mercenaries to go after the Courier, it would probably be Mr. House rather than the Mojave Express since the platinum chip is his ace in the hole for the war effort. I believe Mr. House already knew that Benny had the chip by the time you wake up so sending mercs after you would be a waste of time. Sending them after Benny wouldn't work either since Mr. House even explains that he can't get close lest Benny uses the chip as a hostage.
 
You are an authorized agent of the Mojave Express Package until delivery is complete and payment has been processed, contractually obligated to complete this transaction and materially responsible for any malfeasance or loss. Failure to deliver the proper recipient may result in forfeiture of your advance and bonus, criminal charges, and/or pursuit by mercenary reclamation teams. The Mojave Express is not responsible for any injury or loss of life you experience as a result of said reclamation efforts."
-Mojave Express Delivery Order

May means might. It does not not mean will, must, shall or has. This isn't a legally binding contract simply because there are no courts to legally enforce anything until the Second Battle of Hoover Dam is over so at the time the player is woken up by Doc Mitchell the Courier is not being sought by anyone, even the Mojave Express. Mr House is watching over the Courier and Victor saves the Courier, he doesn't kill him or her.
 
If I had to imagine anyone sending mercenaries to go after the Courier, it would probably be Mr. House rather than the Mojave Express since the platinum chip is his ace in the hole for the war effort. I believe Mr. House already knew that Benny had the chip by the time you wake up so sending mercs after you would be a waste of time. Sending them after Benny wouldn't work either since Mr. House even explains that he can't get close lest Benny uses the chip as a hostage.
It quite obviously IS Mr. House. He needs that chip, and if you're not going to follow Victor's directions to help him get it, and instead, you're just going to spend weeks or months exploring the Mojave, realistically, he would retaliate, since he needs that fucking chip, and if you're not going to help him get it, he's obviously going to be pissed, since the Legion and the NCR are gearing up for a final battle, and realistically, neither side is going to wait for some dumb mailman to get to Vegas before they put in place their final plans. Especially the Legion, which already has a plan, and has most things already in place.

In the same vein, once House or Caesar start giving you quests, it also makes no sense that you can put them off for hundreds of hours of gameplay-time (which translates into weeks, or even months of ingame time) while they wait for you to finish your task. Caesar, especially, has an extensive spy network and hit squads all over the Mojave, so taking too long with his quests would realistically end with him getting pissy with you and either sending someone to threaten you or kill you, especially if he finds out that you've just been taking a break and wandering around town instead of say, killing the Mojave BoS, assassinating Kimball, or recruiting the White Gloves or the Boomers for him. Caesar doesn't give the impression of a very patient man, so it's highly unlikely that he'd just let his agent take a vacation after they've been given a task.

But that never happens, since the last time where they did have timed quest in a Bethesda-style open world game, it was a mess. Sure, it adds realism, but gameplay-wise, it is very constricting. So while lore-wise, the note is important, gameplay-wise, it's hot gas, like the Sole Survivor being obsessed about their kid. Sure, he says he wants his kid back, but in the end, it gets in the way of playing an open-world game, just like how timed quests do, so it's just hot gas and nothing else.

May means might. It does not not mean will, must, shall or has.
It still leaves the possibility open. Meanwhile, no one is going after the Sole Survivor if they fail to find their son.

This isn't a legally binding contract simply because there are no courts to legally enforce anything until the Second Battle of Hoover Dam is over.
You haven't been reading the loading screens, have you? Criminals in the Mojave are shot, not tried. There's no courts, just a Judge Dredd-style of enforcing the law by gunpoint, and nothing else. Especially after the Powder Gangers broke free.

so at the time the player is woken up by Doc Mitchell the Courier is not being sought by anyone, even the Mojave Express. Mr House is watching over the Courier and Victor saves the Courier, he doesn't kill him or her.
Victor obviously is trying to get the Courier to confront Benny. If the Courier doesn't do that and faffs around for weeks or months on end, Victor and House would clearly be displeased, and would realistically hold the Courier responsible.

But that never happens, because timed quests in open world games, while realistic, end up being a mess, so gameplay-wise, it ends up being an empty threat.
 
Last edited:
If you're wondering why they wait and wait
And other time-based facts (la la la)
Then repeat to yourself 'It's just a game,
I should really just relax'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AnotherPleb
If you're wondering why they wait and wait
And other time-based facts (la la la)
Then repeat to yourself 'It's just a game,
I should really just relax'.
My point exactly. It's just a game. They could not put in timelimits for the game's quests because it would not be fun. So whining that the SS doesn't go immediately after their kid is pointless, because gameplay-wise, it gets in the way of gameplay. It's just a general motivation for your main quest, just like the Courier's obligation to deliver the chip.
 
Last edited:
  • Autistic
Reactions: Nien Nunb
The Mojave Express is just a vehicle to put the Courier where the game wants you to start, and a reason to be involved in the game's main storyline

That's it

Fallout: New Vegas is an open world video game where there is going to be inevitable tension between the story and the gameplay. It isn't a standard narrative structure that goes from plot point to plot point in an inevitable, inexorable progression A-B-C until it reaches conclusion

Imperator's endless sperging about the writing, like on any topic where his autistic sense of order is offended, misses the point entirely. Perhaps the Mojave Express and House don't send mercs to find you because House already did with Victor? House paid millions of caps to find the chip, then hired multiple couriers to confuse anyone trying to waylay his shipment, and hired mercs to scout the travel routes. All very secret. Doesn't want anyone to know shit. Everyone who wants the chip wants to keep the whole thing hush hush. Why would House draw attention by having the ME send out its own mercs and sending out his mercs? He has Victor handling it discreetly

Being autistic as fuck Imperator latches on to the first thing he thinks makes sense like a bulldog and never lets go. It doesn't make sense if you think about it for a minute? Nah, there's a note! It says this! That means this other thing makes no sense! Except it does. The writing concerning the immediate events prior to the start of the game makes sense just fine. It's an open world game, the writing shouldn't cramp that and it doesn't. House doesn't want half the wasteland knowing he is looking for something very important to him so he doesn't send a bunch of guys out. He knows which courier had the chip, he knows the route, he sends Victor to find the courier when the chip doesn't show up. Victor finds the courier. The courier wants revenge on the guy who shot him and took the chip. This gives House a direct route to getting the chip back without spreading dangerous rumor around. No need for reclamation teams. It all makes sense
 
It feels like by the time I finished the first quest of Preston Garvey and lead his group to Sanctuary Hills I would already have killed Benny in NV instead.

Does anybody else feels the same or I'm just too stupid? I really want to like Fallout 4 but so far I just get bored and quit after 10 minutes.
You killed Benny in 10 minutes on your first run? Lolno.

I don't understand your post. You start off complaining about F4 being a drag and how other games are more intense, despite F3 and NV being walking sims until the moments you cited (and I'm ignoring side quests and attractions given how you're explicitly talking about story), and F4 being the most Michael Bay Fallout... But then say you got bored after 10 minutes. Are you speedrunning the games? I don't know anyone who gets to Three Dog/Benny/reclaim Concord Museum that fast, while also saying it was a slog. It doesn't make sense.
 
Here's an idea. That note is the Mojave Express covering their own arses.

They're not sending out merc teams or pressing charges. But they're saying they're not responsible if the client does those things.
Also doesn't Johnson Nash not even give a shit when you mention you lost the package? He works for the Mojave Express.
 
The Mojave Express is just a vehicle to put the Courier where the game wants you to start, and a reason to be involved in the game's main storyline

That's it

Fallout: New Vegas is an open world video game where there is going to be inevitable tension between the story and the gameplay. It isn't a standard narrative structure that goes from plot point to plot point in an inevitable, inexorable progression A-B-C until it reaches conclusion

Imperator's endless sperging about the writing, like on any topic where his autistic sense of order is offended, misses the point entirely. Perhaps the Mojave Express and House don't send mercs to find you because House already did with Victor? House paid millions of caps to find the chip, then hired multiple couriers to confuse anyone trying to waylay his shipment, and hired mercs to scout the travel routes. All very secret. Doesn't want anyone to know shit. Everyone who wants the chip wants to keep the whole thing hush hush. Why would House draw attention by having the ME send out its own mercs and sending out his mercs? He has Victor handling it discreetly

Being autistic as fuck Imperator latches on to the first thing he thinks makes sense like a bulldog and never lets go. It doesn't make sense if you think about it for a minute? Nah, there's a note! It says this! That means this other thing makes no sense! Except it does. The writing concerning the immediate events prior to the start of the game makes sense just fine. It's an open world game, the writing shouldn't cramp that and it doesn't. House doesn't want half the wasteland knowing he is looking for something very important to him so he doesn't send a bunch of guys out. He knows which courier had the chip, he knows the route, he sends Victor to find the courier when the chip doesn't show up. Victor finds the courier. The courier wants revenge on the guy who shot him and took the chip. This gives House a direct route to getting the chip back without spreading dangerous rumor around. No need for reclamation teams. It all makes sense

The only thing that would hound the Sole Survivor for not going after their son is their conscience. The Courier has a legal fucking threat in their possession that openly states that if they don't deliver, they could be charged as a criminal and have mercs come after them. In a world where criminals are shot. Of course, this only matters in the narrative, but shitting on Fallout 4 for letting you go off rails when the narrative acts like finding your son is top priority makes no sense when New Vegas does the same with its main quest.

It's the same vein as with Skyrim, where the narrative tells you that the Dragonborn has to stop Alduin NOW, since the lore says he becomes stronger with every person slain as the civil war for the land drags on, and if he gets strong enough, he can end the world. But that isn't reflected in the gameplay. When I first played Skyrim, I bought into the narrative and I hurried on to beat the main storyline, killing Alduin at level 20. Now, I don't even go near Alduin until I'm level 220. The same went for New Vegas. When I first booted up the game and found that note in the Courier's pocket, I hurried as fast as I could to Vegas so that I could kill Benny and give the chip to House. When I figured out that the note was just for narrative's sake and that I can faff around all I want, I decided to beat all the DLCs before going to Vegas, so that I'd be fully armed and armored once House/Caesar/the NCR start giving me orders.

It doesn't take a genius to see that a game's narrative can be separate from the gameplay, especially in games where you can faff around and explore. The last time they had time limits like in Fallout 1 and Elder Scrolls 2, people complained, so they got rid of that in the later games. So it makes no sense to whine that Fallout 4 has that divide from its narrative (where the SS wants to find their son as fast as possible) and its gameplay (where the SS faffs around for 400 hours exploring the Boston Commonwealth). The other Fallout/Elder Scrolls games have the same separation between the narrative and the gameplay, even New Vegas.
 
Last edited:
It still leaves the possibility open. Meanwhile, no one is going after the Sole Survivor if they fail to find their son.
You have been assuming the Courier has been judged and convicted, not that it's a possibility, for the last several pages.
You haven't been reading the loading screens, have you? Criminals in the Mojave are shot, not tried. There's no courts, just a Judge Dredd-style of enforcing the law by gunpoint, and nothing else. Especially after the Powder Gangers broke free.
Frontier justice ≠ court orders. You calling it "a Judge Dredd-style" legal system just shows your age, that you're a coomer or both. Not a single loading screen states the Courier is considered a criminal at the start unless you go ham and kill every single person in Goodspring.
Victor obviously is trying to get the Courier to confront Benny. If the Courier doesn't do that and faffs around for weeks or months on end, Victor and House would clearly be displeased, and would realistically hold the Courier responsible.
I don't think you understand RPG mechanics, you can kill Benny or not kill him. Just like you can kill/not kill Caesar, Elder McNamara, House, et cetera. This is why people replay this game with different Courier builds, it adjusts itself accordingly.
 
Fallout 3 is better than NV

I just want Fallout: Rust Belt. 3 set-up a Canadian city-state that moving into New York, I’d want a continuation of the Pitt storyline by having the MidWest Brotherhood as a regional power fighting the advance of a hostile foreign power.
Really what made New Vegas shine was every faction was vying for power and could be inclined to back either of the two biggest factions if it meant they’d pull ahead.

I’d honestly like if they did what Fallout 3 did and partition the map in some way like they did with the DC subway. Have the game in Indiana-Ohio-Michigan, but with small railways to have some locations like Detroit. You could probably have angry natives in Michigan being courted by either party because Detroit has a bulk of munitions and raw materials that would lead to a regional superpower.

The easiest way to appeal to fans would be to have old factions show up. A Legionary serving under Lanius is with the MidWestern brotherhood as an ambassador hinting that Lanius. Ashur from the Pitt lobbying the player for Ronto.

Probably do more Local factions like the Knights of Columbus, Wolverines, and Hoosiers.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Spicey McHaggis
You have been assuming the Courier has been judged and convicted, not that it's a possibility, for the last several pages.
They don't bother with judging or convicting. If someone is labeled a criminal for not delivering something they were supposed to deliver within an acceptable timeframe, they'll just get shot. Period.

Frontier justice ≠ court orders. You calling it "a Judge Dredd-style" legal system just shows your age, that you're a coomer or both. Not a single loading screen states the Courier is considered a criminal at the start unless you go ham and kill every single person in Goodspring.
There is no court order in the Mojave. There's just death penalties. Especially since holding people prisoner kinda backfired for the NCR. Maybe the Legion might enslave you, but everyone else deals with criminals at gunpoint. And again, the note says that the Courier can be charged as a criminal if they fail to deliver the chip. Hence why, narratively speaking, the Courier would have made their way to New Vegas as fast as humanly possible to deliver the chip to House.

I don't think you understand RPG mechanics, you can kill Benny or not kill him. Just like you can kill/not kill Caesar, Elder McNamara, House, et cetera. This is why people replay this game with different Courier builds, it adjusts itself accordingly.
No, YOU don't understand RPG mechanics. Specifically gameplay/story segregation. The last time Fallout had a time limit for its questline, people complained about it. Same thing went for Elder Scrolls. These open world games do not work well within time limits.

I disagree, but I can understand people who think that way. Especially since New Vegas is more KOTOR than Fallout in terms of story.

I just want Fallout: Rust Belt. 3 set-up a Canadian city-state that moving into New York, I’d want a continuation of the Pitt storyline by having the MidWest Brotherhood as a regional power fighting the advance of a hostile foreign power.
Really what made New Vegas shine was every faction was vying for power and could be inclined to back either of the two biggest factions if it meant they’d pull ahead.
That can work. The Midwestern Brotherhood is a very interesting Brotherhood faction.

I’d honestly like if they did what Fallout 3 did and partition the map in some way like they did with the DC subway. Have the game in Indiana-Ohio-Michigan, but with small railways to have some locations like Detroit. You could probably have angry natives in Michigan being courted by either party because Detroit has a bulk of munitions and raw materials that would lead to a regional superpower.
I prefer the Mojave and being able to travel on a flat plain to wherever you wish, but that's also an interesting idea.

The easiest way to appeal to fans would be to have old factions show up. A Legionary serving under Lanius is with the MidWestern brotherhood as an ambassador hinting that Lanius. Ashur from the Pitt lobbying the player for Ronto.
My way would be to combine Enclave remnants with a victorious Robert Edwin House, and have him use both diplomacy and force to take over a weakening NCR and a fragmenting Legion. Then have them face off against a powerful, but cocky, East Coast Brotherhood who are all sniffing their own farts after stomping out the East Coast Enclave and the Institute.

Probably do more Local factions like the Knights of Columbus, Wolverines, and Hoosiers.
Knights of Columbus sounds interesting. Are they some kind of Catholic faction like the real-world version?
 
Last edited:
You know, imagine, if you will, you are the Enclave hot off your defeat from the Oil Rig. You lost your president but there is a new one, there is still hope for America after all. You are very far away from the BOS, NCR and the unstoppable man that you got reports over how he and a few others were able to annihilate any enclave forces sent their way.
Cue years later and you are not only faced with the BOS AGAIN but with another unstoppable man that is even younger and capable of slaughtering your teammates like nothing.

I mean, lets face it, from the point of view of their foes, the Fallout protagonists are basically unstoppable demigods that they cant seem to kill no matter what.
 
You know, imagine, if you will, you are the Enclave hot off your defeat from the Oil Rig. You lost your president but there is a new one, there is still hope for America after all. You are very far away from the BOS, NCR and the unstoppable man that you got reports over how he and a few others were able to annihilate any enclave forces sent their way.
Cue years later and you are not only faced with the BOS AGAIN but with another unstoppable man that is even younger and capable of slaughtering your teammates like nothing.

I mean, lets face it, from the point of view of their foes, the Fallout protagonists are basically unstoppable demigods that they cant seem to kill no matter what.
Any RPG character basically becomes an unstoppable god of death and destruction. Even a fucking mailman or a confused child who came out of a vault. Enough leveling up and items can mean that you can practically cheese through almost anything.

The Courier either wins the war for the NCR or the Legion, or they make a mockery of both the NCR and the Legion and either secure the Mojave for House or takes it over as a tinpot dictator with an army of super battle droids. And in three out of four of those outcomes, they wandered into a Brotherhood bunker full of guys with heavy power armor and gauss rifles, and massacred them all in a one-man version of Order 66.

The Lone Wanderer and his robot friend annihilated an entire Enclave army in the Jefferson Memorial, and even when the Enclave got rid of the robot, the Lone Wanderer staged a one-man assault on Adams Air Force Base and decimated a power-armored Enclave army on their own.
 
To be fair, NMA isn't much better when it comes to defending F1, 2 and NV. They jump through the same amount of hoops when it comes to discussing weird writing decisions in those game's stories.

I once saw a discussion where they theorized the Wasteland Survival Guide in New Vegas wasn't the same one as the F3 one because "It wouldn't be realistic for Moira's book to reach the West Coast so clearly this is just someone else's book with the same cover and name!" That was their unironic argument to that odd writing decision.

It is canon that the Survival Guide was completed to perfection and its actually very damn useful, so of course traders would find worth it bringing to the other side of the country and that it even increases the Courier's survival skills, its that good.
I legit dont know what these people are talking about, wow.
Any RPG character basically becomes an unstoppable god of death and destruction. Even a fucking mailman or a confused child who came out of a vault. Enough leveling up and items can mean that you can practically cheese through almost anything.

The Courier either wins the war for the NCR or the Legion, or they make a mockery of both the NCR and the Legion and either secure the Mojave for House or takes it over as a tinpot dictator with an army of super battle droids. And in three out of four of those outcomes, they wandered into a Brotherhood bunker full of guys with heavy power armor and gauss rifles, and massacred them all in a one-man version of Order 66.

The Lone Wanderer and his robot friend annihilated an entire Enclave army in the Jefferson Memorial, and even when the Enclave got rid of the robot, the Lone Wanderer staged a one-man assault on Adams Air Force Base and decimated a power-armored Enclave army on their own.

I know, I just find it hilarious/scary/frustrating that the Enclave was unluckly enough to not only meet one of these but TWO during their campaigns. It might make one wonder if they are cursed or something. Imagine being an enclave vet from the Oil Rig and seeing it happen all over again and now the kid from Vault 101 is aiming right at you with their plasma rifle.
 
Back