Fallout series

[Dave.]

I may be of the unpopular opinion, but I didn't get any pedophilic vibes from the person who wrote Mae. I do genuinely think he was telling the truth when he said the character is supposed to be in the wrong and you're supposed to strongly disagree with her lifestyle decisions especially at that young of an age. And there are many movies that have touched this same topic (Gummo, Kids, Bad News Bears). And with stuff like Tiktok and Deviantart and Tumblr there are actual underage artists who do draw pretty bad stuff and face no repercussions. I just think it's not a good fit for a game like Fallout and unfortunately it sends false signals because of all the other contexts defined. But I legitimately don't think that guy is into pedophilic stuff.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

I may be of the unpopular opinion, but I didn't get any pedophilic vibes from the person who wrote Mae. I do genuinely think he was telling the truth when he said the character is supposed to be in the wrong and you're supposed to strongly disagree with her lifestyle decisions especially at that young of an age. And there are many movies that have touched this same topic (Gummo, Kids, Bad News Bears). And with stuff like Tiktok and Deviantart and Tumblr there are actual underage artists who do draw pretty bad stuff and face no repercussions. I just think it's not a good fit for a game like Fallout and unfortunately it sends false signals because of all the other contexts defined. But I legitimately don't think that guy is into pedophilic stuff.

I also think he kinda missed the joke with her offering up her virginity. She's being sarcastic as fuck. Especially because the next line is her saying that she knows her brother is sick. She's outright mocking you.

And yeah, it looks like some of these idiots took their personal jokes only they get (like some people mashing through speech checks instead of actually reading them) and figured to inflict them on everyone else not realizing that everyone else isn't in on the joke.

 

[Sir Joahim Browinson III]

self-proclaimed Kojima disciple

*Sigh*
Alright.
If you want to be like Kojima you should learn to write your own damn stories.
You know what Kojima doesn't do? Leeching on someone else's games to make his own projects. Yes, he was making Silent Hills, but had Konami covering him up for a time.
Kojima makes sure that if he is refrencing movies, it'a a careful homage or refrence.
You know what also Kojima has? Full creative controll. He can add any bullshit in MGS and get away with it, because it was his from the start. And he also has full controll over the tone of the game, so he can get away with being overly pretentious and dramatic and also get away with it.
And yeah, back in the days of MGS, Kojima had a second writer who was keeping Kojima's wave of ideas at bay.
If you think that copying MGSV and pasting it into other games is a way to go you are as much Kojima's aprentice as author of "My immortal" is an aprentice of J.K. Rowling.

 

[Snekposter]

Why not have an Enclave civil war? I've seen mods have that idea. One side wants to maintain the whole "purity of humanity" thing, the other wants to help wastelanders by rebuilding America and rebuilding a sense of law and order on the lawless and chaotic wasteland. And as a role-player, you can join either one. You can join the "pure humans only" side of the Enclave and help them defeat the nicer Enclave and the other factions, or you can help the nicer side of the Enclave and have them either join or defeat the other factions based on your judgement. One side would be trying to continue the plan that Richardson and Eden started, the other side is basically what if Arcade Gannon had his own Enclave faction.

Remember, this very conflict is part of what makes the Remnants in FNV so interesting. Daisy just wanted to fly and let's face it, that's hard to pass up. Hard enough to the point she'd deliberately disobey orders by taking long scenic routes while on missions. Johnson was incredibly sympathetic to the wastelanders and twisted mission orders into a pretzel whenever he could to keep them alive, and Moreno... Moreno followed orders. As to the boss, Kreger:

"I miss those days sometimes. We all had a purpose, you know? I admit that some of the folks in charge were pretty ruthless. The rest of us, though - we were just trying to civilize things. The NCR was still new and it didn't look like they'd last all that long."

Dude had a point.
EDIT: You can say he was just rationalizing things with a statement like that, and you might actually be correct. Doesn't change the fact things were decidedly unpleasant in the wastelands before the NCR takeover.

Also many people in the Enclave were extremely unhappy with their leadership and the things they did. Granite and his squad can be convinced to help you take down Horrigan. You know, the squad in charge of perimeter security for the Oil Rig and supposedly some of the most loyal and trustworthy guys. They didn't like what he was, what the Enclave did to him, or how he acted. Something tells me the Curling Virus and its plan weren't exactly common knowledge.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Remember, this very conflict is part of what makes the Remnants in FNV so interesting. Daisy just wanted to fly and let's face it, that's hard to pass up. Hard enough to the point she'd deliberately disobey orders by taking long scenic routes while on missions. Johnson was incredibly sympathetic to the wastelanders and twisted mission orders into a pretzel whenever he could to keep them alive, and Moreno... Moreno followed orders. As to the boss, Kreger:

Dude had a point.

Exactly. Shit, you can even have that conflict play out in people's faces with that Enclave Civil War mod someone made for FNV. The guys who want to do good are battling the guys who want to follow orders. The side that recruits you is more akin to Cannibal Johnson, while the guys who want to continue Richardson's legacy are more extreme versions of Orion Moreno.

The fact that people in the Enclave found purpose in it outside of just "MUH FASCISM" goes to show that having an Enclave playthrough for a mod that has multiple factions can be meaningful more than just having it be some kind of fascist power fantasy. It's not just a juvenile fascist power fantasy, it's people finding their purpose in preserving a country many believe to be dead, trying to civilize a wasteland that's basically a dog-eat-dog world. Were there reckless assholes in charge? Yes. Did they do evil things? Yes. But the rest of the Enclave is just as human as the Legion, the Brotherhood, the NCR, and every other faction in the Fallout world, and they deserve the same respect, or at least, they deserve not to be dismissed as a fascist power fantasy when factions like the LEGION are given the time of day.

 

[Gravemind]

Mr. House is wise when it comes to the Brotherhood. But many Brotherhood fans shit on him for bullshit reasons despite the fact that he's the reason that New Vegas is prime real estate in the first place.

I feel like most of the Brotherhood's fans these days probably come from people who played Fallout 3 as their first game and bought into the narrative that the Brotherhood is a force for good just because the one chapter in the Capital Wasteland decided to be a bunch of "DEFENDERS OF JUSTICE". Despite having an "outcast" branch in the same area that more closely sticks to the Brotherhood's original principles. Which... Would make the official chapter more like the real outcasts themselves, shouldn't it?

 

[Vault Boy]

Moreno... Moreno followed orders.

It was more than that, he genuinely believed in the Enclave, thinking that it was the best chance to revive America.

As the NCR/Brotherhood sacked Navarro, every shred of hope & optimism died in him, leaving him to become a broken old man that couldn't let his hatred for the NCR go (didn't help that they thought he was squatting on their territory when they arrived in the Mojave).

Much as he's an asshole, there was a point when he believed in a cause, and seeing it die just broke him.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I feel like most of the Brotherhood's fans these days probably come from people who played Fallout 3 as their first game and bought into the narrative that the Brotherhood is a force for good just because the one chapter in the Capital Wasteland decided to be a bunch of "DEFENDERS OF JUSTICE". Despite having an "outcast" branch in the same area that more closely sticks to the Brotherhood's original principles. Which... Would make the official chapter more like the real outcasts themselves, shouldn't it?

Apparently, they missed the part where the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 got denounced for heresy by their Lost Hills compatriots. A lot of Brotherhood fans even defend the BoS' genocide against synths, despite the fact that Fallout 3 shows them to be nothing more but mechanical humans with the same thoughts, dreams, and desires for freedom as regular humans do. (The priest in Rivet City even covers for a Synth hiding there.) A lot of BoS fans seem to miss a lot of lore that doesn't jack their faction off.

It was more than that, he genuinely believed in the Enclave, thinking that it was the best chance to revive America.

As the NCR/Brotherhood sacked Navarro, every shred of hope & optimism died in him, leaving him to become a broken old man that couldn't let his hatred for the NCR go (didn't help that they thought he was squatting on their territory when they arrived in the Mojave).

Much as he's an asshole, there was a point when he believed in a cause, and seeing it die just broke him.

Again, it shows how even the most stubborn Encalve soldier isn't just some Nazi with an American flag. They honestly believed themselves to be continuing the tradition of Washington and preserving the American nation. Moreno's an Enclave zealot, but he's far from the stereotypical fascist that many Enclave-bashers like to paint the entire Enclave as.

That's why it was always fun for me to fight for or against the Enclave; they were a worthy foe that has all the best tech and gadgets post-apocalyptic America can cough up, and they honestly believed in their cause and would even die for it. It's like fighting the Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders in KOTOR: they were the best enemies one can ask for, and to fight alongside the Enclave in Fallout New Vegas, even for a brief while, gave me a sense of joy, as I blasted away Legion/NCR troops while blaring Enclave radio music and equipped with Enclave armor and weapons. We got to show these new dogs that Old America wasn't ready to kick the bucket just yet.

 

[Snekposter]

It was more than that, he genuinely believed in the Enclave, thinking that it was the best chance to revive America.

As the NCR/Brotherhood sacked Navarro, every shred of hope & optimism died in him, leaving him to become a broken old man that couldn't let his hatred for the NCR go (didn't help that they thought he was squatting on their territory when they arrived in the Mojave).

Much as he's an asshole, there was a point when he believed in a cause, and seeing it die just broke him.

Well, yeah. That's why he followed those orders. To him there was no Enclave. Just the same USA George Washington helped establish. "Unbroken chain from Washington to Richardson." Incredibly tempting to believe in something like that given the world. That something could and can endure even beyond the nukes.

 

[Dave.]

I feel like most of the Brotherhood's fans these days probably come from people who played Fallout 3 as their first game and bought into the narrative that the Brotherhood is a force for good just because the one chapter in the Capital Wasteland decided to be a bunch of "DEFENDERS OF JUSTICE". Despite having an "outcast" branch in the same area that more closely sticks to the Brotherhood's original principles. Which... Would make the official chapter more like the real outcasts themselves, shouldn't it?

It’s been a while since I played fallout 1 but doesn’t the brother hood of steel send you on a mission to join them, but in reality they’re just getting you killed so you’ll stop bothering them?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Well, yeah. That's why he followed those orders. To him there was no Enclave. Just the same USA George Washington helped establish. "Unbroken chain from Washington to Richardson." Incredibly tempting to believe in something like that given the world. That something could and can endure even beyond the nukes.

Exactly. Guys like Moreno believed themselves to be continuing that very same Revolution George Washington and the other founders began in 1776. To them, fighting for the Enclave isn't about just being a lot better than everyone else, it's about preserving the country that your ancestors protected. The whole world believes America to be dead, but to the Enclave, that fire hasn't died out just yet. And given how many factions in the games, from the Brotherhood of Steel, to the NCR, and the Children of the Cathedral seem to be headed by paste-eating retards, it's not that hard to see some people sticking with the Enclave and seeing these new nations and groups as pretenders.

It’s been a while since I played fallout 1 but doesn’t the brother hood of steel send you on a mission to join them, but in reality they’re just getting you killed so you’ll stop bothering them?

Yep. That's how the first Fallout game portrayed the Brotherhood. I get the feeling that they would have genocided the world with the FEV the same way Richardson would have done just so they can keep everyone from the tech they wish to heard.

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

I feel like most of the Brotherhood's fans these days probably come from people who played Fallout 3 as their first game and bought into the narrative that the Brotherhood is a force for good just because the one chapter in the Capital Wasteland decided to be a bunch of "DEFENDERS OF JUSTICE". Despite having an "outcast" branch in the same area that more closely sticks to the Brotherhood's original principles. Which... Would make the official chapter more like the real outcasts themselves, shouldn't it?

The wasted potential is actually one of my favorite parts of the Brotherhood. They have the potential to do so much good for the wasteland, but instead they curl up in their bunker throwing an autistic fit about how everybody but them is a retard who can't be allowed to have nice things. Since we've been talking personal playthroughs and headcanons, my personal interpretation of the Yes Man ending includes the Courier giving the Brotherhood and the Followers joint custody of Helios One, one to guard, the other to study, and not-so-subtly suggesting "please get along, you two would make a great team". Brotherhood of the Apocalypse has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The wasted potential is actually one of my favorite parts of the Brotherhood. They have the potential to do so much good for the wasteland, but instead they curl up in their bunker throwing an autistic fit about how everybody but them is a retard who can't be allowed to have nice things. Since we've been talking personal playthroughs and headcanons, my personal interpretation of the Yes Man ending includes the Courier giving the Brotherhood and the Followers joint custody of Helios One, one to guard, the other to study, and not-so-subtly suggesting "please get along, you two would make a great team". Brotherhood of the Apocalypse has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Yeah, no. The Brotherhood would sooner slaughter the Followers rather than share anything with them. Remember the alternate ending to Veronica's questline? The one that you get if you send her to join the Followers?

Hence why in all endings save for the NCR ending, I always eradicate them all, Order 66-style. The best I can do with them is make them NCR meatshields. Other than that, they've got to go, and House, Yes-Man, and Caesar all agree with me.

 

[Snekposter]

The wasted potential is actually one of my favorite parts of the Brotherhood. They have the potential to do so much good for the wasteland, but instead they curl up in their bunker throwing an autistic fit about how everybody but them is a retard who can't be allowed to have nice things. Since we've been talking personal playthroughs and headcanons, my personal interpretation of the Yes Man ending includes the Courier giving the Brotherhood and the Followers joint custody of Helios One, one to guard, the other to study, and not-so-subtly suggesting "please get along, you two would make a great team". Brotherhood of the Apocalypse has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Assuming the Securitrons can keep the two sides from killing each other, yes. The BoS may have guns and power armor, but the Followers have the smarts to play dirty. The BoS has never been able to handle foul play like that, always assuming power armor and Gatling lasers are enough to win the day no matter what. Never learned their lesson after a single poisoned arrow killed their boss...

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Assuming the Securitrons can keep the two sides from killing each other, yes. The BoS may have guns and power armor, but the Followers have the smarts to play dirty. The BoS has never been able to handle foul play like that, always assuming power armor and Gatling lasers are enough to win the day no matter what. Never learned their lesson after a single poisoned arrow killed their boss...

The Brotherhood doesn't know how to play fair. Their history with the NCR is proof of that. The NCR was their ally, but just because it was playing with Enclave tech, it went from ally to enemy in the BoS' eyes, and they attacked the NCR despite the NCR having more manpower than the BoS can control. They'll make the same mistake and think they can defeat the Securitrons and the Followers, which will end up necessitating a massacre against them.

The only thing that can keep them in line in the long term is the NCR, because if they enter into an alliance with the NCR, they'll be forced to play nice in exchange for some concessions.

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

Yeah, no. The Brotherhood would sooner slaughter the Followers rather than share anything with them. Remember the alternate ending to Veronica's questline? The one that you get if you send her to join the Followers?

Hence why in all endings save for the NCR ending, I always eradicate them all, Order 66-style. The best I can do with them is make them NCR meatshields. Other than that, they've got to go, and House, Yes-Man, and Caesar all agree with me.

That wasn't a sanctioned operation, though, those were Hardin's loyalists. It also wasn't a random culling, it was--as you noted--a response to what they took as a betrayal. The real question is how much McNamara and Veronica can influence the Brotherhood onto a less fuck-the-world path. McNamara would likely at least take up the offer of "I will give you back Helios, on the conditions of 1: make sure that ARCHIMEDES remains offline and 2: let these guys in the lab coats pick over the building for any non-military tech that could improve peoples' lives." McNamara is about the best shot that the Brotherhood is ever going to get to lighten up, and it would be a shame to not at least give them the chance. If everything goes to shit, then as @Snekposter mentioned, there's always the securitrons.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

That wasn't a sanctioned operation, though, those were Hardin's loyalists. It also wasn't a random culling, it was--as you noted--a response to what they took as a betrayal. The real question is how much McNamara and Veronica can influence the Brotherhood onto a less fuck-the-world path. McNamara would likely at least take up the offer of "I will give you back Helios, on the conditions of 1: make sure that ARCHIMEDES remains offline and 2: let these guys in the lab coats pick over the building for any non-military tech that could improve peoples' lives." McNamara is about the best shot that the Brotherhood is ever going to get to lighten up, and it would be a shame to not at least give them the chance. If everything goes to shit, then as @Snekposter mentioned, there's always the securitrons.

It probably will go to shit, and it probably will end up with Securitrons massacring the Brotherhood of Steel, with House's ghost telling you "I told you so!" when it comes to the Brotherhood not being trustworthy.

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

It probably will go to shit, and it probably will end up with Securitrons massacring the Brotherhood of Steel, with House's ghost telling you "I told you so!" when it comes to the Brotherhood not being trustworthy.

Maybe, but the opportunity to bring about a group that combines the Brotherhood's firepower and desire to prevent the apocalypse from occurring again with the Followers' knowledge, expertise and genuine desire to un-fuck the world is not something I'm prepared to just throw away without giving a shot.

(Basically, if I had been a writer for The Frontier, it would have been a Brotherhood/Followers hybrid, instead of a Brotherhood/Mormon one. There would also have been less fetish shit.)

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Maybe, but the opportunity to bring about a group that combines the Brotherhood's firepower and desire to prevent the apocalypse from occurring again with the Followers' knowledge, expertise and genuine desire to un-fuck the world is not something I'm prepared to just throw away without giving a shot.

You're better off getting the Enclave Remnants and the Boomers to do that. At least they're both easier to control since the former are just reasonable old folks while the latter swore to fight on your behalf. The Brotherhood with their own wackadoo religion needs to be put six feet under before they start bothering people for using tech that the BoS believes should belong to them.

 

[Iceland Heavy]

Apollodown should have a thread here. He's another one of those guys who started taking estrogen and cut his dick off to "own Drumpf."

Is this a shitpost or did he actually start taking steps towards joining the 41%? I know he melted down after November 2016 and his mod descriptions were reddit cringe incarnate so it wouldn't at all surprise me.