Fallout series

First time I did Old World Blues I was so tired of Ulysses blathering on that when I got to the end, I came in the door, saw him standing up there, unlimbered Ye Olde Sniper Rifle, and fucking cavitated his melon. Then fought everything else.

My friend told me "His speech was pretty cool!" and I was all "What speech?"
 
Fallout mod makers tend to be radical communists who see no hope in liberal democracy.


Seeing everybody left of Lenin as a fascist is also becoming popular again. The widespread belief that the Social Democrats were equivalent to the Nazis contributed to the rise of Hitler as it divided the left and made everybody think leftists were unhinged extremists. Not exactly healthy.
Ah, that makes sense even more. Especially when the NCR in FNV is an openly capitalist state (both Caesar and Chief Hanlon complain that rich folks like Brahmin Barons have a lot of pull with the government) so it makes sense that leftist modders would portray them as the kind of evildoers who shoot their own men and hunt former heroes down.

What is it with people's obsession with radical communism, anyways? It's the Team Rocket of politics. Everywhere they tried it, it failed, and things either became a horrible, ungodly mess, or they had to revert back to partial capitalism to survive. You'd think people would stop after an entire century of people trying out that idea and horribly failing to the point where millions died.

Well, considering how many leftists are signing on with radical communism, maybe leftists today are unhinged extremists. Anyone to the right of Karl Marx is automatically targeted as a Nazi, that kind of shows how leftists are psychologically unstable. Especially when these dolts blame the way America was going for the nuclear war in Fallout. Instead of, you know, China running out of oil and waging war on America, then launching nukes when the Americans kicked them out of Alaska and began counter-invading them?

No wonder we got those Frontier devs who whined about how joining the Enclave is a "fascist power fantasy" for "Trump supporters". If most of them veer to the left of Lenin, then of course they'd think that way.

Fallout's politics really aren't that deep either and it's just as funny watching these spergs clamoring on about how super political it is when it's just their blind confirmation bias and general retarded interpretations of the lore. They think they're hot shit because they read the fallout wiki or watched shoddycast's storyteller.
To be fair, the first two Fallout games were slanted slightly to the left. Especially Fallout 2, where the Enclave is a parody of American patriotism and militarism, while right-wing NCR folks are painted with the same brush as the evil Enclave:

"Shaken by the assassination of Vice-President Carlson, right-wing elements seize control of the Congress and set the New California Republic on a path to military rule. Eventually the survivors of the Enclave found a new home in the ranks of the NCR."
-FO2 "bad ending" for the NCR

No wonder why I felt something wrong with the first two FO games that I didn't sense in New Vegas or the Bethesda games. The Frontier devs and the other left-leaning Fallout fans did have to get it from someplace, after all.

I do love how FNV reverses this, though. The "good" ending for Fallout 2 and the NCR has them expanding:

"Your help with Vault 15 launched the New California Republic's push to civilize its neighbors. Though there were many more obstacles to overcome, the NCR now had a foothold into the northern wastes."

Then FNV comes along and says that the NCR's expansion really screwed them over as it stretched them too thin, and the fact that they weren't a military state meant that they couldn't protect their trade routes or territory as well as the Legion can.

"They try to put their stake in everything they see. Nobody's dick's that long, not even Long Dick Johnson, and he had a fucking long dick. Thus, the name. So NCR, tries to hold on to everything. They can't, because it's too big for them to get their arms around. They can't guard the roads, they can't put a line of troops around the Mojave... it's just greed that makes the heads back West even try. Aside from the people in the towns, it's the soldiers that suffer for it most. Ever seen NCR troops asked to go after gangs at three-to-one odds? That bear flag doesn't make them bulletproof. And when those gangs were caused by NCR in the first place, like the Powder Gangers? Caesar on a crutch, don't get me started there."

-Rose of Sharon Cassidy, Fallout: New Vegas

It kinda goes to show that maybe, they should have become a military state before expanding. Then maybe they'd be able to defend their expansions and their territory, and you wouldn't have problems like Caesar's Legion because Edward Sallow would just be some NCR peon paying homage to the militaristic government of the NCR without becoming Caesar.

FNV also tried to portray the Enclave in a different light, with sympathetic characters like the Remnants and Arcade. Not to mention they also had smart fascists and capitalists like Caesar and Robert Edwin House. If they were written with the same kind of brush as the FO2 writers did, House and Caesar would be parodies of fascism and capitalism, while expanding without militarism would be portrayed as a good thing for the liberal NCR.

Well, if liking the Enclave is a fascist, right-wing power fantasy, that kind of explains why they're loved by many fans. People like to play as the bad guys, they also like patriotism in video games, so a bad guy faction that's extremely patriotic will get a lot of fans. It's quite funny how that's probably not what the FO2 devs intended, but it's where the fanbase eventually wound up. They made the Enclave as a parody of everything bad about American patriotism, it ended up being the most popular faction in Fallout outside of the Brotherhood of Steel.

It made him just much more unlikeable and looking like an edgelord. He literally looks like some dork trying to pull off a Cyberpunk cosplay.
That's further confirmed by the fact that he uses Enclave eyebots to heal himself and repair his stuff during the battle. Which makes him more of a pussy who relies on technology instead of a man who can win a stand-up fight.

Which is why nonstop sperging about The Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout 4 is so funny.

Yeah why would they want to kill the synths off, is it because they're genocidal fascists or the fact they're a byproduct of a faction playing god and doing ethically dubious things with their creations such as slave labor, infiltration, or espionage?
Mostly because the Brotherhood doesn't like it when A) someone does technology better than them, and B) someone makes a piece of new tech that far outstrips the limits for society the Brotherhood desires. Those outsiders are only supposed to be primitive savages, dammit!

So no, I don't see the Brotherhood as genocidal fascists. Nor do I see them as good guys who are trying to stop a faction from playing God. In the end, all the Institute did was make clones of people, which is nowhere near as dangerous as activating a three-story robot that chucks nukes at the enemy. The Brotherhood is doing what they're doing because of the same reasons that Father Elijah didn't want outsiders to get their hands on technology: they want to keep it all to themselves, and keep the rest of the outside to a lower level of tech which would make them easier to control or keep down from the POV of the Brotherhood. To call them fascist is to imply that they're actually trying to build a state, which they're not. They're just techno-bandits who want to keep all the world's tech for themselves. They would rather see all the tech be destroyed rather than for it to be handed out to others.
 
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Fallout's politics really aren't that deep either and it's just as funny watching these spergs clamoring on about how super political it is when it's just their blind confirmation bias and general retarded interpretations of the lore. They think they're hot shit because they read the fallout wiki or watched shoddycast's storyteller.


It made him just much more unlikeable and looking like an edgelord. He literally looks like some dork trying to pull off a Cyberpunk cosplay.


Which is why nonstop sperging about The Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout 4 is so funny.

Yeah why would they want to kill the synths off, is it because they're genocidal fascists or the fact they're a byproduct of a faction playing god and doing ethically dubious things with their creations such as slave labor, infiltration, or espionage?

Ironically enough, people like Caesar best represent these people.

New Vegas does one thing few games do and that is represent extremist politics accurately. Marx literally originates in Hegel just like Caesar.
 
I do believe I have the definitive litmus test of who you are based on your preferred new Vegas ending
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Yeah why would they want to kill the synths off, is it because they're genocidal fascists or the fact they're a byproduct of a faction playing god and doing ethically dubious things with their creations such as slave labor, infiltration, or espionage?
People really like to give the brotherhood in 4 a ton of crap. One thing I've seen a ton of people ignore is that Elder Maxson here is literally the same Arthur Maxson from 3. The little kid that had a crush on Saran Lyons.

Now imagine if you will, growing up in the complete fucking ghoul/super mutant/robot infested hellhole that was downtown DC, and the kinds of shit they got up to. (some brotherhood members can be heard talking about seeing a super mutant rip a human right out of their suit of armor fist first. That's just kind of horrifying to think about), and their propensity to stuff entire net sack bags of meat and bones. Then you get to the Behemoth...

Fast forward 11 years, and seeing the kind of horrifying shit he did, on top of Lyon's ideology failing under Sarah's leadership and then unceremoniously dying, it's no wonder Maxson adopted a "kill ALL of them" route, and I really don't blame him either.

Fallout 4 was undeniably shit in a lot of ways, but it had some great spots inbetween them. Credit where it's due, right? You'd never really know this unless you took the time to learn some of the background details, and their constant upheaval of the Brotherhood is emblematic of their failure to look beyond the surface. Are the brotherhood assholes? Sure, but not without reason.
 
I do believe I have the definitive litmus test of who you are based on your preferred new Vegas ending
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MysterymachineX route: All four of them are fascists and you never explain exactly why they are, you just keep insisting they are.
People really like to give the brotherhood in 4 a ton of crap. One thing I've seen a ton of people ignore is that Elder Maxson here is literally the same Arthur Maxson from 3. The little kid that had a crush on Saran Lyons.

Now imagine if you will, growing up in the complete fucking ghoul/super mutant/robot infested hellhole that was downtown DC, and the kinds of shit they got up to. (some brotherhood members can be heard talking about seeing a super mutant rip a human right out of their suit of armor fist first. That's just kind of horrifying to think about), and their propensity to stuff entire net sack bags of meat and bones. Then you get to the Behemoth...

Fast forward 11 years, and seeing the kind of horrifying shit he did, on top of Lyon's ideology failing under Sarah's leadership and then unceremoniously dying, it's no wonder Maxson adopted a "kill ALL of them" route, and I really don't blame him either.

Fallout 4 was undeniably shit in a lot of ways, but it had some great spots inbetween them. Credit where it's due, right? You'd never really know this unless you took the time to learn some of the background details, and their constant upheaval of the Brotherhood is emblematic of their failure to look beyond the surface. Are the brotherhood assholes? Sure, but not without reason.
Not to mention Lyons had basically caused a schism in the brotherhood and caused many members in DC to abandon him and continue their own mission they believed was really in the best interests of the brotherhood before eventually rejoining the ranks of the eastern BoS after Maxson took power.
 
I do believe I have the definitive litmus test of who you are based on your preferred new Vegas ending
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Couldn't almost every main title Fallout protagonist be considered a bit of a Mary Sue? I mean, the Vault Dweller takes on an army of super mutants all by himself, both the Chosen One and Lone Wanderer wage a more-or-less one man war on the Enclave and win. Beating the everloving shit out of not one but 2 entire armies seems like a logical progression here.
 
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Couldn't almost every main title Fallout protagonist be considered a bit of a Mary Sue? I mean, the Vault Dweller takes on an army of super mutants all by himself, both the Chosen One and Lone Wanderer wage a more-or-less one man war on the Enclave and win. Beating the everloving shit out of not one but 2 entire armies seems like a logical progression here.
Thing is, you're a fucking loser in 1&2. Just some little smartass goody-two-shoes who can't disobey his elders in a meaningful manner. Fact that's Canon is just perfect. Even if you do, you obey their dying order anyway. Talk about cucked.

LW is either the Messiah who walks alone or the anti-christ who fucks DC one more time or saves it to benefit from the prosperity that'd come. It's vague what happened in 4 but it's open enough that just the BS bad ending is non-Canon and you went in or a companion did instead of Lyons.

If there's one thing that can be said of the new Fallout's, your only the bitch to whoever you decide to be.
 
Couldn't almost every main title Fallout protagonist be considered a bit of a Mary Sue? I mean, the Vault Dweller takes on an army of super mutants all by himself, both the Chosen One and Lone Wanderer wage a more-or-less one man war on the Enclave and win. Beating the everloving shit out of not one but 2 entire armies seems like a logical progression here.
I guess it kinda depends on how you look at it in 1 and 2 it's not as if you're treated as some messianic figure who can do no wrong besides that it's not necessarily the point of the image as I was mostly mocking a very specific type of yes man player who characterize their courier as effectively an infallible renaissance man who is a perfect statesman and is incapable of ever failing or making a mistake in achieving their yummy wholesome 100 Keanu chungus independent ending
 
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Couldn't almost every main title Fallout protagonist be considered a bit of a Mary Sue? I mean, the Vault Dweller takes on an army of super mutants all by himself, both the Chosen One and Lone Wanderer wage a more-or-less one man war on the Enclave and win. Beating the everloving shit out of not one but 2 entire armies seems like a logical progression here.
The Chosen One is at least mentioned to have brought Marcus along (and likely others) to storm the Oil Rig, though it reduces it from one man army to 'one squad of wanderers'.
 
I guess it kinda depends on how you look at it in 1 and 2 it's not as if you're treated as some messianic figure who can do no wrong besides that it's not necessarily the point of the image as I was mostly mocking a very specific type of yes man player who characterize their courier as effectively an infallible renaissance man who is a perfect statesman and is incapable of ever failing or making a mistake in achieving their yummy wholesome 100 Keanu chungus independent ending
How dare you impugn my unrealistic Mary Sue power fantasy self insert! Have at thee!
 
The Chosen One is at least mentioned to have brought Marcus along (and likely others) to storm the Oil Rig, though it reduces it from one man army to 'one squad of wanderers'.
in both fallouts it's said he didn't wreck shit alone or that the happenings wasn't fully of the protagonist but he was rather a kickstarter, unlike in FNV where you go to a research facility with muh adult jokes and fix it all by yourself while mobius is just a passenger giving you lore filler.
Who wins NV Legion or Van Buren Legion
the one with less gayness because the centurions won't be caught with their pants down.
Ironically enough, people like Caesar best represent these people.
New Vegas does one thing few games do and that is represent extremist politics accurately. Marx literally originates in Hegel just like Caesar.
this is avellone's work, of course the wikia and the tarded fans with their interpretations of the lore and meems do thatever floats their boat anyway.
Yeah why would they want to kill the synths off, is it because they're genocidal fascists or the fact they're a byproduct of a faction playing god and doing ethically dubious things with their creations such as slave labor, infiltration, or espionage?
you forgot the killings
 
I do believe I have the definitive litmus test of who you are based on your preferred new Vegas ending
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I've always been NCR since I like their aesthetics the most, never understood why people go with yes man. There isn't a story its just "I wanna kill all the bad people" with no interesting repercussions
 
The Brotherhood of Steel doesnt like technology they dont control or that is too advanced in their opinion because of how the Brotherhood was founded, Maxson's outrage at discovering the FEV research. Irresponsible people at West-Tek and in the government had betrayed MURICA with what they were doing with FEV. Maxson swore never again and the Brotherhood was how he tried to make sure never again.
 
I've always been NCR since I like their aesthetics the most, never understood why people go with yes man. There isn't a story its just "I wanna kill all the bad people" with no interesting repercussions
But that’s exactly the reason to do so- you, bumble-fuck mail man with the luck of a gambling god to survive being shot through the skull, back out of a grave, travel to hellish and unforgiving waste of a world gone by, with the key‘s to a kingdom come or then end of all ends, can set out for yourself.

You can be your own force, your own ruler, your own master of your own destiny. No longer are you the henchmen or side-hand of any force, you’re the new god of Nevada and no one can stop you.

I don’t find it interesting as you said, but that’s probably because we don’t get to make much of our own story post game. To me, siding with yes-man feels like wasted potential. But, at the same time, many people don’t play fallout for it’s story, just RPG elements, or perhaps they’ve already gone through the New Vegas rodeo once before, and just want a rip roaring time massacring people.

Narratively it’s objectively uninteresting, but it’s also exactly what you make of it. Personally I lean towards Mr. House as being a visionary with old world knowledge of tech and a new world knowledge of politics, while having the timeless understanding of how human beings work.
 
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Unpopular opinion. The Minutemen failed due to corrupt/ineffective leadership. With the sole survivor at the helm they are the best faction to take control of the commonwealth.
 
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But that’s exactly the reason to do so- you, bumble-fuck mail man with the luck of a gambling god to survive being shot through the skull, back out of a grave, travel to hellish and unforgiving waste of a world gone by, with the key‘s to a kingdom come or then end of all ends, can set out for yourself.

You can be your own force, your own ruler, your own master of your own destiny. No longer are you the henchmen or side-hand of any force, you’re the new god of Nevada and no one can stop you.

I don’t find it interesting as you said, but that’s probably because we don’t get to make much of our own story post game. To me, siding with yes-man feels like wasted potential. But, at the same time, many people don’t play fallout for it’s story, just RPG elements, or perhaps they’ve already gone through the New Vegas rodeo once before, and just want a rip roaring time massacring people.

Narratively it’s objectively uninteresting, but it’s also exactly what you make of it. Personally I lean towards Mr. House as being a visionary with old world knowledge of tech and a new world knowledge of politics, while having the timeless understanding of how human beings work.
Mr house is too much of a wimp, in my opinion, the strip is too small for a proper defense, if the boomers were to fire into the strip it would destroy the entire thing, Mr house shows that he only cares for his land, which if it was the size of a state would be ok. But it's not its literally 1 street and like 12 buildings, it's too easy to destroy. Mr house's isolationism is going to be his downfall.

EDIT: To add on to this , Before the NCR and Legion houses only threats were raider gangs and maybe the BOS, The BOS could be a massive threat but I doubt they'd attack vegas, raider gangs would easily be scared off by the securitrons.
The NCR and legion can easily take over vegas on a whim, and they have the proper resources to hold it too, House has never had a threat that could move up supplies along roads and mount proper assaults. Remember that for the past 200 odd years house has been running the strip as a city-state in a world where nothing bigger than a city-state could exist, ignoring the two major factions that could hurt the strip, the BOS and Enclave , He could just sit in his own little nation without worrying.

A lot of my issues with house also carry over to the boomers, and I think both would eventually fall to the NCR or Legion or some new faction , but they are off the beaten path for most gangs and people AND DON'T HAVE LITERAL SHINING BEACONS THAT CAN BE SEEN FOR MILES. Their arty can easily nip any threat in the bud if needed and if that doesn't work they all of missile launchers it seems.
 
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Unpopular opinion. The Minutemen failed due to corrupt/ineffective leadership. With the sole survivor at the helm they are the best faction to take control of the commonwealth.
I’m curious why you think that. My guess it has something to do with them focusing on community/settlements and support via material, emotional, and moral preservation, via guns, good men, and medical/food supplies. But you can go on about it, since I’m not you and don’t know all the things you could be alluding to. :popcorn:
 
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