Fallout: The Frontier - Done, and it's a hilarious shitshow

[A_Callow_Youth]

Literally not true, in my current normal difficulty playthrough almost all legionaries including assassins use guns against me.

What do words mean: the post

(Lucius is the commander of the Praetorians in the base game, he's saying that the Frontier isn't congruent with that)

 

[Gay_nig_from_outer_space]

What do words mean: the post

(Lucius is the commander of the Praetorians in the base game, he's saying that the Frontier isn't congruent with that)

Yes, I'm talking about the base game.

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

Yes, I'm talking about the base game.

Never mind, I'm a fucking retard. We actually had a pretty sizable discussion on the Legion over in the main Fallout thread, starting about here.

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN]

Actually if I remember correctly most of the lead devs admitted they'd never played New Vegas and didn't even particularly like the series.

Then why didn't they make their own fuckin' game? They obviously have no qualms about buying assets, so just license the Unity engine, that's gotta be easier than trying to massage the decrepit Gamebryo engine, have the similar yet legally distinct version of the NCR and Legion, and say it's part homage, part parody! I mean, it still would've been a shitshow but at least you wouldn't have people spamming "God Bless the Sneedclave!" at you 24/7.

 

[TerribleIdeas™]

Then why didn't they make their own fuckin' game? They obviously have no qualms about buying assets, so just license the Unity engine, that's gotta be easier than trying to massage the decrepit Gamebryo engine, have the similar yet legally distinct version of the NCR and Legion, and say it's part homage, part parody! I mean, it still would've been a shitshow but at least you wouldn't have people spamming "God Bless the Sneedclave!" at you 24/7.

Why would they make their own game, when they can shit on the hard work of someone else? People like this aren't particularly creative, beyond their ability to discover new and fascinating ways to be thin-skinned and angry at everything.

 

[Aquinas]

Why would they make their own game, when they can shit on the hard work of someone else? People like this aren't particularly creative, beyond their ability to discover new and fascinating ways to be thin-skinned and angry at everything.

because everyone wants to be the nehrim/enderal devs

 

[Maude Snew]

Making your own entire game is way different and way harder. Unless you do like Renpy or RPGmaker or some shit but in a proper engine you actually have to do a lot and say what you will about Bethesda, their mod tools are actually really convenient and user friendly comparatively. Even I managed to do some light modding on it back in the day and I can't code for shit.

 

[Dyn]

It was a dev team full of SJW retards with TDS, thus they're likely all euphoric atheists. They probably thought one Christian religion is exactly the same as any other Christian religion, but "Mormons were in Honest Hearts, so we'll make them Mormons!"

Don't mormons have a serious aversion to crucifix symbology? These dudes have crosses on all their armour.

 

[The Dude]

Don't mormons have a serious aversion to crucifix symbology? These dudes have crosses on all their armour.

Kinda. We view things like crucifixes as part of the "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images" part of the Ten Commandments. So we avoid that kind of iconography because prayer and worship should be directly to God and the Savior without any kind of idol or physical representation of Them involved. In our view, anyways. And we feel that crucifixes focus too much on Christ's death, and not enough on His resurrection and defeat of death.

 

[Watcher]

Then why didn't they make their own fuckin' game?

It's much easier to get devs to work for free on a project when it's a mod than if it's an indie game. The majority of the time you get people to work on an indie game they want to get paid for doing it. It's also a drastically different amount of work to start and finish a game with as many complex systems as Fallout New Vegas with devs working for free on it.

 

[Wawalian]

It's much easier to get devs to work for free on a project when it's a mod than if it's an indie game. The majority of the time you get people to work on an indie game they want to get paid for doing it. It's also a drastically different amount of work to start and finish a game with as many complex systems as Fallout New Vegas with devs working for free on it.

Free labor for hundreds upon thousands of hours. The things fanboyism makes one do.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Kinda. We view things like crucifixes as part of the "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images" part of the Ten Commandments. So we avoid that kind of iconography because prayer and worship should be directly to God and the Savior without any kind of idol or physical representation of Them involved. In our view, anyways. And we feel that crucifixes focus too much on Christ's death, and not enough on His resurrection and defeat of death.

Again, this goes to show why the Brotherhood Crusaders should have been Catholic. We know the Catholic Church survived the apocalypse in one form or another (there's the Church of Saint Monica in FO3's Rivet City, which is a Catholic Church run by a priest, and in FNV, Benny's gun Maria is a blatant nod to Our Lady of Guadalupe) and even if they didn't, some disillusioned Brotherhood unit could have found a book full of Catholic teachings and/or a Catholic Bible and adopted Catholicism along the way.

Mormons don't like Cross symbiology, but most mainstream Christian denominations, Catholicism included, use it all the time as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice for the sake of mankind's souls. Not to mention the fact that the real-world Crusaders were a Catholic religious/military movement, and Roger Maxson himself formed the Brotherhood after being inspired by the scribes and knights of the west who preserved the knowledge of the west after Rome fell-CATHOLIC knights and scribes. So a renegade Brotherhood of Steel outfit fully adopting Catholicism isn't out of the norm, when the Brotherhood itself was inspired by Dark Ages Catholic knights and scribes preserving what scraps of Roman knowledge they can get their hands on.

Why would they make their own game, when they can shit on the hard work of someone else? People like this aren't particularly creative, beyond their ability to discover new and fascinating ways to be thin-skinned and angry at everything.

Considering how edgy the NCR campaign was, the devs were just a bunch of unimaginative slobs who simply wanted to make their own fanfic take on FNV. But unlike most FNV fans who know the lore, these yahoos barely touched upon it. I knew it the moment they had you kill wounded NCR soldiers after the Helios One battle. The NCR would never do that. The NCR is many things, but they're not that kind of straight-up evil. At most, the soldiers would all be on stretchers, many of them might bleed to death, and some might even request to be killed instead of living on in pain, but they'd never resort to just shooting their own wounded soldiers without their consent. That, and the large number of vertibirds and tanks on the NCR side-that's just pure bullcrap. It would have made more sense if the Frontier NCR was actually a renegade Enclave op that went native and took in deserters from the NCR to boost their manpower, and they decided to rebuild America their own way up North, which would explain where they get all the cool shit from.

Making your own entire game is way different and way harder. Unless you do like Renpy or RPGmaker or some shit but in a proper engine you actually have to do a lot and say what you will about Bethesda, their mod tools are actually really convenient and user friendly comparatively. Even I managed to do some light modding on it back in the day and I can't code for shit.

The Enderal devs managed somehow. They came out with their mod 5 years after Skyrim was released. They came out with a unique game of their own in 5 years, while it took the Frontier devs 7 years to make a bad CoD ripoff that raped Fallout's lore to hell and back.

 

[Ruin]

Again, this goes to show why the Brotherhood Crusaders should have been Catholic. We know the Catholic Church survived the apocalypse in one form or another (there's the Church of Saint Monica in FO3's Rivet City, which is a Catholic Church run by a priest, and in FNV, Benny's gun Maria is a blatant nod to Our Lady of Guadalupe) and even if they didn't, some disillusioned Brotherhood unit could have found a book full of Catholic teachings and/or a Catholic Bible and adopted Catholicism along the way.

Mormons don't like Cross symbiology, but most mainstream Christian denominations, Catholicism included, use it all the time as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice for the sake of mankind's souls. Not to mention the fact that the real-world Crusaders were a Catholic religious/military movement, and Roger Maxson himself formed the Brotherhood after being inspired by the scribes and knights of the west who preserved the knowledge of the west after Rome fell-CATHOLIC knights and scribes. So a renegade Brotherhood of Steel outfit fully adopting Catholicism isn't out of the norm, when the Brotherhood itself was inspired by Dark Ages Catholic knights and scribes preserving what scraps of Roman knowledge they can get their hands on.


Considering how edgy the NCR campaign was, the devs were just a bunch of unimaginative slobs who simply wanted to make their own fanfic take on FNV. But unlike most FNV fans who know the lore, these yahoos barely touched upon it. I knew it the moment they had you kill wounded NCR soldiers after the Helios One battle. The NCR would never do that. The NCR is many things, but they're not that kind of straight-up evil. At most, the soldiers would all be on stretchers, many of them might bleed to death, and some might even request to be killed instead of living on in pain, but they'd never resort to just shooting their own wounded soldiers without their consent. That, and the large number of vertibirds and tanks on the NCR side-that's just pure bullcrap. It would have made more sense if the Frontier NCR was actually a renegade Enclave op that went native and took in deserters from the NCR to boost their manpower, and they decided to rebuild America their own way up North, which would explain where they get all the cool shit from.


The Enderal devs managed somehow. They came out with their mod 5 years after Skyrim was released. They came out with a unique game of their own in 5 years, while it took the Frontier devs 7 years to make a bad CoD ripoff that raped Fallout's lore to hell and back.

Isn't there a quest in Vanilla FNV where an NCR ranger orders you to mercy kill crucified NCR soldiers at Nelson though?

Edit: yes there is, it's called "back in your own backyard."

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Isn't there a quest in Vanilla FNV where an NCR ranger orders you to mercy kill crucified NCR soldiers at Nelson though?

Edit: yes there is, it's called "back in your own backyard."

That's different. Those guys are likely being tortured to death/used as hostages. However, in Camp Forlorn Hope, despite there being a lack of medical supplies, they haven't offed all the wounded soldiers yet.

Also, that was one ranger, and he didn't make it an absolute order the way the Frontier had both Oliver and Blackthorne order you to do it. You can choose to disobey and save those soldiers, the ranger just didn't expect you to stage an assault on Nelson and wipe out the whole place yourself.

Ranger Milo responds to the player saving the hostages with gratitude:
"I have to admit, I didn't think you could do it. Guess that makes me the sap and you the hero. I'm not authorized to pay for contract work, but here's something for the effort. And I'll make sure everyone hears about what you did. Thanks."

 

[Ruin]

That's different. Those guys are likely being tortured to death. However, in Camp Forlorn Hope, despite there being a lack of medical supplies, they haven't offed all the wounded soldiers yet.

Also, that was one ranger, and he didn't make it an absolute order the way the Frontier had both Oliver and Blackthorne order you to do it. You can choose to disobey and save those soldiers, the ranger just didn't expect you to stage an assault on Nelson and wipe out the whole place yourself.

Ranger Milo responds to the player saving the hostages with gratitude:
"I have to admit, I didn't think you could do it. Guess that makes me the sap and you the hero. I'm not authorized to pay for contract work, but here's something for the effort. And I'll make sure everyone hears about what you did. Thanks."

Also if you do storm Nelson and rescue the troopers single handedly that ranger reacts like "what the fuck even are you?"

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Also if you do storm Nelson and rescue the troopers single handedly that ranger reacts like "what the fuck even are you?"

Exactly. He didn't expect you to be the Mojave's Lord/Lady of Death.

Hell, my Courier was practically one step away from being Frank fucking Horrigan. She killed Ulysses at the highest difficulty when she was just level 19, she goes into battle with Enclave power armor and a plasma caster or a minigun, and her melee stats are so OP that she can straight-up kill Legate Lanius in a 1v1 fight. Without armor. So yes, Milo was fucking scared of her. And he had every right to be, especially after my Courier leveled that camp all by her lonesome, as if she wasn't even trying.

Still, going back to the Frontier, they portrayed the NCR with so much adaptational villainy it wasn't even funny anymore. I know there's a lot of players who like to rag on how corrupt the NCR is, but come on, they're corrupt, not obnoxiously evil. The way they portrayed NCR in their mod, it seems as if the devs just wanted to make them evil for the sake of being evil so they can justify treasonous acts like desertion.

 

[Radical Cadre]

Also if you do storm Nelson and rescue the troopers single handedly that ranger reacts like "what the fuck even are you?"

All open world adventure games should have contingencies and lines recorded for outcomes where the player does something completely unbelievable and (oftentimes) by themselves. I absolutely hate pulling off an amazing run on a mission and returning to town or whatever and nobody fucking cares that I literally just solved all of their problems in an afternoon and have the nerve to either complain or send me on a irrelevant fetch quest.

At least make them in awe of me or have some cool, rare dialog for having accomplished something. Killing Caesar was particularly egregious because as a story event it is basically ignored and reduced to "boy I wish I was there when you killed Caesar now let's get back to this war as if nothing ever happened."

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

All open world adventure games should have contingencies and lines recorded for outcomes where the player does something completely unbelievable and (oftentimes) by themselves. I absolutely hate pulling off an amazing run on a mission and returning to town or whatever and nobody fucking cares that I literally just solved all of their problems in an afternoon and have the nerve to either complain or send me on a irrelevant fetch quest.

It would have been funny if you could kill Blackthorne in the beginning of the Frontier NCR questline, then you have to escape to either the Northern Legion or to Crusader territory, and both factions have a positive view of you once you bring them Blackthorne's head on a stick.

At least make them in awe of me or have some cool, rare dialog for having accomplished something. Killing Caesar was particularly egregious because as a story event it is basically ignored and reduced to "boy I wish I was there when you killed Caesar now let's get back to this war as if nothing ever happened."

At least the radio acknowledged that I killed Caesar, and I could actually use that as a dialogue option with Chief Hanlon or Joshua Graham. I just wish I could have told Lee Oliver that when he started talking about planning an attack on the Fort.

"Hey, jackass, the Fort is already depopulated. I made sure of it myself. I took one of your First Recon snipers with me, we killed everyone there, and we now have Caesar's head on a spike, right outside the walls of New Vegas."

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

All open world adventure games should have contingencies and lines recorded for outcomes where the player does something completely unbelievable and (oftentimes) by themselves. I absolutely hate pulling off an amazing run on a mission and returning to town or whatever and nobody fucking cares that I literally just solved all of their problems in an afternoon and have the nerve to either complain or send me on a irrelevant fetch quest.

At least make them in awe of me or have some cool, rare dialog for having accomplished something. Killing Caesar was particularly egregious because as a story event it is basically ignored and reduced to "boy I wish I was there when you killed Caesar now let's get back to this war as if nothing ever happened."

There actually is one single mechanical effect of killing Caesar: the Legion troops at Hoover will panic more easily. It's just that nobody ever noticed this because by that point in the game you're just wiping them out by the score with a fatman.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

There actually is one single mechanical effect of killing Caesar: the Legion troops at Hoover will panic more easily. It's just that nobody ever noticed this because by that point in the game you're just wiping them out by the score with a fatman.

I always killed Caesar before getting to the final battle, so I never noticed. But yeah, I did see a fair amount of Legion troops panicking and running away once I killed a few with a minigun or a bumper sword.