Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

Dave. said:
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Toes!
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Stop doxing me you fuck


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Some days I have this urge to risk my account just to call someone a nigger tranny
Today was one of those days.
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So here's something I've been wondering about a bit.

I noticed that Shadowbringers (and I think maybe Stormblood, too), bosses in dungeons had long, huge wind-ups for their 'tankbusters', but that earlier dungeons just sort of had them baked in and it was more of a timing issue.

Was this something that was an intended design choice, in that tanks were expected to kinda know the general timing to use a defensive, and they moved away from it, or was it just more or less a natural progression?

I know Aurum Vale was a nightmare for a lot of the pantshitters in this game because of untelegraphed attacks, so I was wondering if it was something they shifted towards being something only tanks having to worry about (as I think there's a few bosses in HW where you have to pay attention to what a boss is doing, animation wise), realized that the pantshitters are everywhere, so just put in huge, long wind-ups to placate the dummies.
 
Well Intentioned said:
So here's something I've been wondering about a bit.

I noticed that Shadowbringers (and I think maybe Stormblood, too), bosses in dungeons had long, huge wind-ups for their 'tankbusters', but that earlier dungeons just sort of had them baked in and it was more of a timing issue.

Was this something that was an intended design choice, in that tanks were expected to kinda know the general timing to use a defensive, and they moved away from it, or was it just more or less a natural progression?

I know Aurum Vale was a nightmare for a lot of the pantshitters in this game because of untelegraphed attacks, so I was wondering if it was something they shifted towards being something only tanks having to worry about (as I think there's a few bosses in HW where you have to pay attention to what a boss is doing, animation wise), realized that the pantshitters are everywhere, so just put in huge, long wind-ups to placate the dummies.
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Telegraphed cast bar tank busters didn't become a solidified mechanic until later on in development with Coil T5's Death Sentence being the first real example, followed by Raven's Beak in T9, and Akh Morn being a shared buster in T13 as being the big examples of "tank busters" being steadily more common place throughout ARR's development. By either SB to mid or so into HW they were just on every boss forever because it was the best way to ensure tanks knew what to do if SE wanted this very timing CD based gameplay style, many bosses just...kind of hit you in ARR and early HW. Ifrit EX and Titan HM/EX is infamous for this as Ifrit EX's flame breath can sometimes hit you 2 times in 5 seconds and sometimes you don't see it for about 20-30 seconds, and their is no tell when you get that situation besides just memorizing the timing and it applies a "get too many of these stacks or I kill you" debuff so knowing when Ifrit fire breaths is very important to ensure you don't get just blitzed from nowhere or even worse you swap and both tanks get hit at once.

Nowadays Titan's Mountain Buster isn't a huge deal, but 2.0 Titan HM, especially on fucking Warrior? Huge deal, you could legit die without a defensive CD or a Scholar shield as you didn't have enough HP to survive in i70 Darklight gear or god forbid AF1 i55 gear (if you wore this to Titan HM as a tank you were griefing 100%), and it happens at a specific interval in the fight in a perfect loop, their were charts for this stuff and if you didn't CD Mountain buster you probably died (and 2.0 had like no CDs so lmao). Double Wicked Wheel in Garuda EX was also pretty brutal for being untelegraphed, but that one was a good bit more obvious as it was during the add clone phase so if you just pressed anything right after you moved the adds you'll have something up. The infamous a3s had this too with Pepsiman's right hook cleaves being the main thing that fucked your tank up. Nidhogg EX also had a random fucking fire breath that could blast the tank instead of the traditional buster.

I personally don't mind this design choice because after doing Titan HM/EX and Ifrit EX on release, yeah fuck that. If your mechanic is "If this hits you without CDs, you die" then give me a cast bar or something. Dungeons ultimately are supposed to in theory tell you this stuff, so even if it matters much less there it should still be there for consistency purposes. Aurum Vale is overrated and hated, but general tank buster indicators are fine imo. These things may not matter today, but in say ARR tanks had about 2k less hp during progression then you see when you get ilvl sync'd, so missing timings was a much bigger deal. Current ilvl syncs do not properly convey how these fights used to be and even min ilvl doesn't fully convey it imo (mostly from a dps perspective though, tank/heal wise I'd say it is pretty close.)
 
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I wonder if people would be happier if instead of getting a new ability for your character the next expansion for reaching lvl 100 they instead give you a class specific mount
 
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Übertroon said:
I wonder if people would be happier if instead of getting a new ability for your character the next expansion for reaching lvl 100 they instead give you a class specific mount
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You mean more class-specific mounts?
 
Gravemind said:
You mean more class-specific mounts?
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No, as in you reach lvl 90 with each class and instead of the reward being more abilities to clog up the ability bar and leading to pruning of old abilities they instead get some other reward like a mount unique to each lvl 90.
 
Übertroon said:
No, as in you reach lvl 90 with each class and instead of the reward being more abilities to clog up the ability bar and leading to pruning of old abilities they instead get some other reward like a mount unique to each lvl 90.
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My point was that we already (technically) have class-specific/unique mounts in the game.
 
Gravemind said:
My point was that we already (technically) have class-specific/unique mounts in the game.
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Well you could always add more, they don't clutter up as much as the new abilities do. The problem with constantly adding new abilities is it has so far led to situations where classes need to be reworked so that it works with the eventual result at lvl 90 and above. Also mounts was just a suggestion. Could also be something else like a new emote or something like that
 
Übertroon said:
Well you could always add more, they don't clutter up as much as the new abilities do. The problem with constantly adding new abilities is it has so far led to situations where classes need to be reworked so that it works with the eventual result at lvl 90 and above. Also mounts was just a suggestion. Could also be something else like a new emote or something like that
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In most cases, the new level caps have just been tending to add more traits/modify existing traits on top of adding one or two more buttons though. And they've been taking away buttons to compensate.
 
Gravemind said:
And they've been taking away buttons to compensate.
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And that's usually where problems arise. There have been classes who have gotten better as a result. But there's also classes that people seem to all agree got changed for the worse. There's also the problem that they remove abilities from lower levels, leading to long stretches where the class remains barebones
 
Übertroon said:
And that's usually where problems arise. There have been classes who have gotten better as a result. But there's also classes that people seem to all agree got changed for the worse. There's also the problem that they remove abilities from lower levels, leading to long stretches where the class remains barebones
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They make retarded decisions with balancing sometimes, hence why Paladin is fucking dogshit. Go figure.

Literally every class is about barebones below 70 at this point except for maybe RDM. If anything, they could stand to improve that somewhat, but given how much oversimplification has gone into playing at cap, it's hard to imagine how they could retroactively spice things up when leveling since simplification seems to be the design goal here.

I'm not arguing that's a good thing. I still maintain that literally no one will ever be satisfied with any rebalances and additions because ultimately, you're either taking things away from autists who hate change, you are genuinely disrupting the feel of a class that some people have wasted hours of their lives perfecting, or you're dealing with a bunch of shitters who will never be satisfied unless the game is completely playing itself, and even then, they'll complain about paying for a video game they're not even playing.
 
Like I think the worst thing they could do is go the route WoW did where every expansion just as its own unique power wheel/slot/tree thing that got nullified the next year. But people will want to level to max anyhow, even if there isn't a shiny new ability at the end, but I think players want something to show off their new achieved power, and perhaps that can be something as simple as a unique fashion reward or a new animation of an old ability
 
Gravemind said:
Literally every class is about barebones below 70 at this point except for maybe RDM. If anything, they could stand to improve that somewhat, but given how much oversimplification has gone into playing at cap, it's hard to imagine how they could retroactively spice things up when leveling since simplification seems to be the design goal here.
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The best way is to make liberal use of traits so jobs actually have off gcds once in awhile and introduce 1 > 2 > 3 earlier for melee imo. I remember being bored for an hour while having a discussion like this and I tried to roughly fix ARR Dragoon/Lancer using this idea as Dragoon/Lancer doesn't even close like the job until Nastrond and I wanted to fix that, I'm sure some autismo Dragoon main could help me out here to ensure I didn't fuck something up because I messed with the dive ready mechanic a little to compensate, but here's what I made.

Introduce ability "Ghetto Jump" at level 10

Ghetto Jump: 30 second CD off gcd, 15 yalm gap closer, does 200 potency and cannot be used when bound or heavied. Gets traited into Jump at level 30 increasing the range and damage to what Jump currently is.

Remove Spineshatter dive, Jump becomes a gap closer now (inb4 old age FF fans bitch that Jump is supposed to return the Dragoon to their original position). Dragonfire Dive gives Dive Ready and its CD and damage is reduced to compensate (cut CD and potency in half-ish).

Move Lance Charge to level 26, move Full Thrust to level 18, Move Disembowel to level 20

Introduce Ghetto Nastrond (Precursor to Nastrond/Mirage Dive mechanic) at level 30 from class quest.

Ghetto Nastrond: 10 second cd off gcd, can only be used upon using Ghetto Jump/Jump and Dragonfire Dive three times. Deals 290 potency in a 10y straight line aoe 30% less to remaining enemies. Becomes Nastrond at level 70 to change potency to 360 and you only need two Jump/Dragonfire dives instead of three.

Introduce Chaos Thrust at level 45 instead of level 50
 
Vapewizard said:
The level roulette gods decided to fuck with me.
[gay cat snip]
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I would rather deal with a visibly gay male Miqo'te or no-taste whoreglam wearer than this. Hrothgar players are easily the highest up on the "i cannot shut up about how gay i am" totem pole, to the point that I thank god for every Hrothgar player I've done a dungeon or raid with somehow never being this cancer.
 
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