Firearms Training and Practice - Focusing on skills, not gear.

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I literally didn't know what to do, he's about 5 yards away from me where the flashlight stopped him from advancing , the 27 is aimed at center mass and I'm thinking Do I just shot him in a lethal manner? do I shot into the sky? do I shoot into the dirt? Should I just aim for a lesser lethal extremity? He's holding a lethal weapon and ceased advancing, I'm in grey zone.
No one ever plans on killing someone and don't regret not pulling the trigger If you walked away. You got lucky as five yards is within eminent jeopardy zone. You weren't trained in verbal's or forgot them.?
On use of force continuum you're at deadly so now the rules of jeopardy are in play. They can very but normally it's 1. opportunity (he had the drop on you) 2. means/ability: (Knife) and 3. intent. If he charged you that's 3(intent) and you could've mag dumped him right there and you always want to mag dump (not legal advise, suggestion) so you can say you were in fear of your life.
People have gotten in shit because they put bullets in the right place and holstered after only 2-4 shots but when in court (in certain areas) A asshole prosecutor could argue you weren't in fear of your life and you shot poor Tyrone because your racist or a bully in uniform who wanted to kill. Hence the panic fire (mag dump) counter argument.
Don't recover your brass and don't say shit to the police other than you're in shock and need a moment and want a lawyer. Don't say shit as they will use it against you if your in a area hostile to self defense. ( he din do nuffen).
I'll have to do a write up in warfare and tactics thread on real De-escalation or " verbal judo" but for now when training work on your verbal's when shooting. It's sounds cringe and is when doing it at the range but if it's your job to carry a liability on your hip it can save from ending up in that situation again.
Verbal 1 -Stop/freeze! 2-Back up, 3-I'm armed, 4-Drop it/Show me your hands, 5-I will shoot if you don't stop i.e.(don't make me do it). You yell that shit as loud as possible to let them know you aren't fucking around and witnesses or audio recording can hear you yell your directives so your as clear as possible when it comes back in court. (you directed him to stop but...ect) So when at the range get in your normal shooting stance and mentality put yourself in that spot. Yell out your verbal's first only doing V1-Shoot then work your way up as you get used to yelling your COMMANDS ( remember you're not asking you're Commanding them to stop)
Verb-1,2,3,4,5 then go into your normal shooting. A lot even practice by being in your shooting stance and having your non dominant hand already out in the stop gesture :grab: with your shooting hand on you gun ready to draw. Yell verbal 1, from there transition into your normal draw, hold/grip and pull. Repeat working your way up. V1, V2,-Shoot, V1 ,V2 , V3-shoot ect. If they have real intent most shoots pop off at verbal 2 or 3 and you have to make the choice in 3 second's at 5 even 12 yards to pull and ghost his ass.( don't say that in court) If on duty and you make it V5 and you're a real smooth talker and good reader (Cough) you can chill them out with the most retarded Shit like if they wearing a sports ball jersey comment that they or you don't want to miss the next game or I always had the best successes with talking shit about myself or the job. Just don't ever say " I'm just doing my job" because that sets a nigger off: " Your job is keeeling black ppl" ( Monkey noises) annnd you shot or beat the shi--" assisted him to the ground". You made the right call as he had opportunity & means but not intent since he backed off and you would've been in court over that unless you live in a based area. Know your local laws and never cover up shit as it's not the 80 or 90's -It'll come back to you. look up "Verbal judo" if you want to study on your own.
 
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!

And yes, big part of training is training while you're tired and uncomfortable. Bad weather helps too. Try shooting that pistol red dot when it's raining, see how it looks when the glass is wet.
Wet glass sucks. It hasn't been my experience though that its a major issue unless it's just truly awful conditions.
 
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A few things in that vid are... innacurate... but over all a pretty good outline of red dot considerations.

Never liked the line of "Your brain will." When it comes to shooting. Lots of BS out there that lingers like "micro vs macro" movements, or "you can't look down when you holster" type stuff. It's sort of a cop out for not training through natural defficiencies.

And I would argue that a red dot's advantages persist even within 30ft.
 
You're not going to change mine or anyone's opinions when they notice the way certain npc's post. I already said you win, and you "win" again. You have the greatest training and knowledge we know.
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In my training and experience I disagree. Irons are not a core skill, exectuting the fundamentals of marksmanship are the core skills regardless of sighting system
That doesn't make it "better" than irons for EDC (although I would argue it is) and there are many reasons you might want to stick to irons for your conceal carry/handgun.
What exactly was the point of this post?. Your not convincing anyone but yourself. This is the same post where you invalidated yourself retard. Thank you, I needed a good lol
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Irons are not a core skill

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No one ever plans on killing someone and don't regret not pulling the trigger If you walked away. You got lucky as five yards is within eminent jeopardy zone. You weren't trained in verbal's or forgot them.?

As I said I won't post openly the details about the "incident" it didn't end when he ran away, wasn't going to let him off the hook that easy I put the fear of God into that nigger.

No, never trained or planned for verbal anything. Like I said I posted the story as a parable to inform people to actually have a plan, a plan I did not have that night. To be perfectly honest that's why I made sure him running away wasn't going to be the "out" he hoped for. He brought a knife to gunfight but I felt as if I didn't make him live to regret it further I wasn't doing my job as a man. I can only hope he told all his friends.
 
A quick write up for how to get into defensive training. This is all "101" stuff, but until you are familiar with basic weapon safety handling, the fundamentals of marksmanship (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9oF05mqdvo&t=86s), and especially the weapons safety rules, you need to start there. This guide is generalized for any weapon or equipment in the first half, and specific to handguns in the second. I'll get around to a first day with a carbine at some point. I strongly suggest making your first purchase a chrome lined barrel AR-15 and a Glock that suits your needs. This guide also assumes your personal goal is self defense or tactical application of your firearms.

Before you hit the range: (Part One)

Clearing:
You must know how to properly clear your gun of ammunition and know when it is clear. Be 100% confident in your certainty of what condition your gun is in, and what procedure to follow to know if the weapon is hot.

Reloads:
At home before you head out to start shooting be sure you know how to conduct both a tactical, emergency, and administrative reload.

Tactical reload: This is reloading the weapon with a round still in the chamber. The gun did not run dry, and you are replacing one still loaded magazine with another, and then stowing the old magazine on your person.

Emergency reload: This is reloading your firearm after it runs out of ammo completely. You'll eventually learn to do this faster and faster, but for the time being, focus on doing it right.

Administrative reload: Unlike the other two types of reloading, this one might involve reloading the weapon, removing the magazine, and topping off the magazine again. Or, it might mean putting a specific magazine in the gun to conduct a particular drill. Maybe this particular drill involves starting on an empty chamber. Basically, you aren't on the firing line and are situating yourself and your weapon for a particular drill. Typically, this manifests as a normal loading/inserting the magazine on an empty gun. This falls under a different category because this is the place to conduct a chamber check, or check to make sure the magazine is fully seated with a tug. Habits you might not want to mix in with other reloads.


Malfunctions:
Malfunctions happen, even on extremely reliable weapons. Sometimes it is the gun, sometimes the ammo, sometimes a bad magazine, sometimes it is because you did something wrong. Knowing how to clear common malfunctions safely and efficiently doesn't just get your gun back on the line, but is is a safety consideration. Typically malfunctions are cleared with either a "remedial action" or an "immediate action". Look up these procedures for your gun and memorize them, and know when to apply which. Other malfunctions might require further or different actions, but these need to work their way into your subconscious.

Holstering:
You need to own a holster. You also have to be able to safely holster your pistol, every time. You can not practice this enough. The majority of negligent discharges happen during the holstering of a weapon, and they can easily be lethal. It is 100% okay to look at your holster while holstering. The old adage that you shouldn't look at your holster while holstering applies exclusively to Law Enforcement, you as a civilian, should not be putting your gun away while any threat is apparent. Where as a cop might have to stay in contact with a dangerous suspect that doesn't require lethal force, you aren't pulling out your gun without articulatable imminent lethal threat. If you aren't comfortable taking your eyes off the threat for the half second it takes to holster, they are still a threat who know you have a gun, and they might want it. So its fine to look while you holster at first, but work your way up to doing it without looking as you become comfortable and familiar with the movement.

First Day at the Range: (Part Two)

Bring with you a box of index cards, disposable backers of some sort to put those index cards on, a good target to zero on (a classic bullseye is fine, the grid square zeroing targets are handy though) and a stapler.

These index cards will do an excellent job simulating the size of a heart and "T box" zone on a human. They will be your standard of accuracy throughout all your self defense drills from here on out. Other targets can be useful for other reasons, but this standard of accuracy is what you should strive for from now on.


The 10yd line:
Start at the 10yd line. Any closer and you might have difficulty diagnosing your shot patterns because you likely won't be missing by enough to get usable data. Too much further and your groups will open up so much it can be hard to pin down what you are doing wrong. Draw 1" diameter dots in sharpie on 3 index cards. Staple these to your fresh target backer spaced around the target. Draw, fire one round at one of your three targets and then re-holster. Repeat for each of your three targets for three ten round groups on your three distinct index cards spaced on your target.

I wrote up a shot group diagnostic earlier in the thread, even with the typos it is a good place to get started. There are many good sources of information available on the internet. Some of the best people to get advice form are competition shooters who put tons of resources out for free. But analyze where you are hitting and reference a trusted source for how to adjust your grip, sight picture, trigger pull, presentation, etc The following are some helpful drills you can run to work out some common errors.

Recoil anticipation:
If you are flinching the gun down when shooting, run a few mag dumps. Seriously, it will work out the jitters. Flinching does result in recoil anticipation, but it addressing the issue when it presents itself less dramatically typically needs to be addressed. Two great drills you can do to work out recoil anticipation, one requires some "Snap cap" dud rounds, and the other is known as the "Paul Howe Drill"

If you buy snap caps, load up several magazines with a mix of snap caps and live rounds in them. The higher the ratio of snap caps to live rounds the better (more duds, less live ammo). Pay attention and carefully align your sights, get front sight focus, and pull the trigger smoothly. If the gun goes bang, assess your impact to see if you are still shooting low. If it does not, cycle the weapon and repeat. If you are shaking right before the trigger breaks when dry firing, correct it as you go. This is where that "smooth steady squeeze" adage comes to play pulling the trigger. The live rounds are there to give you real feedback, the dry fire is for you to work out that anticipation and tendency to try to counteract the recoil.

If you don't want to commit to buying snap caps, you can get the same practice doing the "Paul Howe Drill". Simply cycle the gun manually doing dry fire between 3-5 times, insert a live mag, shoot, observe impact, remove the mag, cycle it again and repeat the dry fire. You'll end up with a little pile of live rounds to collect, but its a well known and proven way to work through that recoil anticipation.

Both of these methods will only work if you are paying attention to what happens with your sights on each trigger break and you are honest with yourself about what you are doing.


Your first strings of fire:
Once you can get 5 consecutive hits on the index card doing single shots, you can move on to firing multiple shots between holstering. Set up fresh index card targets, and fresh backers. Draw, fire 5 shots as quickly as you think you can hit the index card, and re-holster. Be very wary of keeping your grip consistent through all the shots, and your trigger reset. As you shoot, you need to make sure you don't let your finger leave the trigger. You start slow, releasing pressure on the trigger as it returns to its position until you feel a distinctive click. Building this habit properly now will save you much trouble down the line. Be sure not to look where each shot hits after you fire. Stay focused on that front sight (or target aim point if using a red dot) for each shot, and observe how you did once all rounds are fired.

Consecutive shots need to be practiced with either special tools you put in your gun or with live rounds. Recoil control and maintaining a sight picture is a matter of repetition. But each shot needs all of your attention and the application of the fundamentals individually.

If you can get 5 shots on the index card in 5 seconds or less at 10yds congrats, you've made greater strides on your first serious training outing than most Americans will in their lives. If not, that's okay, typical even. In my experience I can coach someone to achieve that degree of speed and accuracy in fewer than 100 rounds, without the benefit of a competent coach, it will likely take you more.

Cool down/self assessment:
Starting today, and whenever possible in the future, end your day doing a 25yd slow fire. Just to see where you are at. It will keep you humble, and will be very telling of how much progress you are making. It is entirely possible (and frankly not all that impressive) to hit a 8inch target at 100yds without much trouble. That type of slow fire is towards the endgame for pistols. So until you get there, 25yds is a good stand in for you to consider your maximum engagement range with a pistol. Stretching the range out also helps expose errors you are making in your shooting. Your groups at this distance will be telling of your habits once you are consistent enough to be making dinner plate sized groups at this range.

Obviously this isn't all encompassing, but it does contain some effective drills that nearly all beginners need to work on. I'm looking forward to any discussion around this, and answering any questions you might have about how to get better or my methodology.
 
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Reading this thread has blackpilled me heavily because I realize that in the unlikely event that I am ever able to own a firearm, it will not be a suitable gun for self-defense and I will not be able to train with it in such a way that I will be even remotely prepared to use it for that purpose.
 
Reading this thread has blackpilled me heavily because I realize that in the unlikely event that I am ever able to own a firearm, it will not be a suitable gun for self-defense and I will not be able to train with it in such a way that I will be even remotely prepared to use it for that purpose.
Dry fire and draw can get you like 80% there man. Criminals aren't out there training.
 
Any tips for practicing shooting from retention? Would it be worth buying laser snapcaps or something similar to practice with at home before I live fire?
 
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Any tips for practicing shooting from retention? Would it be worth buying laser snapcaps or something similar to practice with at home before I live fire?
Laser systems as a whole are useful, some better than others. I think the Mantis products are hands down the best I've used. Frankly though they are adding a little bit of complexity and extra steps in exchange for some accuracy in the feedback you can see for yourself through your sights, so their usefulness drops off as you get better.

As far as practice from retention, aside from just getting in the reps make sure your gear, specifically the holster, is actually positioned in a good spot for you and your aren't fighting your own body's ergonomics. And make sure you are happy with your retention system, be it a finger or thumb release. Start everything going slow and build good habits doing it the right way every time. Speed comes with repetition, so don't worry about clocking yourself until you get further along and you have some realistic benchmarks to measure yourself against.
 
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Laser systems as a whole are useful, some better than others. I think the Mantis products are hands down the best I've used. Frankly though they are adding a little bit of complexity and extra steps in exchange for some accuracy in the feedback you can see for yourself through your sights, so their usefulness drops off as you get better.

As far as practice from retention, aside from just getting in the reps make sure your gear, specifically the holster, is actually positioned in a good spot for you and your aren't fighting your own body's ergonomics. And make sure you are happy with your retention system, be it a finger or thumb release. Start everything going slow and build good habits doing it the right way every time. Speed comes with repetition, so don't worry about clocking yourself until you get further along and you have some realistic benchmarks to measure yourself against.
Maybe I was imprecise. I'm comfortable using a Level II retention holster. I'm asking about shooting from retention as in shooting from a position too close to fully present the gun. Basically point shooting from close to your chest.
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Maybe I was imprecise. I'm comfortable using a Level II retention holster. I'm asking about shooting from retention as in shooting from a position too close to fully present the gun. Basically point shooting from close to your chest.
Oh! Gotcha.

One of the few skills that can actually be trained with airsoft and lasers very effectively actually. Not quite as hard as it looks and it is pretty fun.

The other is you want to train two bent elbow positions. The first being the one the lady is demonstrating in your post. The second being from having the gun right over and in front of your shoulder. This second higher one is a bit more risky to do, but it is much easer to shoot into the thoracic cavity and head from there. if someone needs to be shot and they are that fucking close ending them quickly is a priority.

A good exercise to do is shoot from the hip then bring the gun up as you step backwards. One shot from the hip, bring the gun up, finish your string of fire. You don't stop shooting until you land a head shot. Lovingly referred to as the "Oh shit drill" in my circle. It's efficacy is sworn to by some and laughed at by others.
 
Reading this thread has blackpilled me heavily because I realize that in the unlikely event that I am ever able to own a firearm, it will not be a suitable gun for self-defense and I will not be able to train with it in such a way that I will be even remotely prepared to use it for that purpose.
You can accomplish a lot with dry practice which doesn’t necessarily involve real firearms. There was a video on YouTube where a guy practiced a bunch with airsoft, and then was able to fire real guns for the first time and did surprisingly well.
 
I like this video with Jerry Miculek on how to shoot pistols fast (keep in mind though they're using ported barrels):
 
You got lucky as five yards is within eminent jeopardy zone.
Five yards is puckered sphincter close.
I remember watching that old training video I think from the 70's or 80's, with a cop getting rushed at progressively closer distances by a dude with a knife, and within that distance very few of the cops managed to get their side arm out in time, but that wasn't even the pucker factor.
What brought the pucker was even the guys that started the drill ready like they knew what was gonna happen, they already had their hands on their gun, some of them still didn't manage to get their shots off before the assailant got too close.
People don't drop like they do in movies, if a guy has a knife and gets within rushing distance there's a huge chance that even if he gets shot you're still gonna get cut up before it stops him.
Knives probably scare me more than guns for some reason especially when they're close.
 
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