Firearms Training and Practice - Focusing on skills, not gear.

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Procrastinhater said:
Five yards is puckered sphincter close.
I remember watching that old training video I think from the 70's or 80's, with a cop getting rushed at progressively closer distances by a dude with a knife, and within that distance very few of the cops managed to get their side arm out in time, but that wasn't even the pucker factor.
What brought the pucker was even the guys that started the drill ready like they knew what was gonna happen, they already had their hands on their gun, some of them still didn't manage to get their shots off before the assailant got too close.
People don't drop like they do in movies, if a guy has a knife and gets within rushing distance there's a huge chance that even if he gets shot you're still gonna get cut up before it stops him.
Knives probably scare me more than guns for some reason especially when they're close.
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And this goes to highlight just how critical marksmanship is. The goal in any self defense situation is first round lethality. And it is a realistic goal for the average joe. Heads and hearts people.
 
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Pretend To Imagine said:
For those of you using an optic on your pistol, what has been useful for proper indexing and maintaining target focus? It was a difficult switch for me after 20+ years of shooting irons.

I had heard to imagine putting the back of the slide in front of your nose from Aaron Cowan, and this was somewhat useful.

What helped me the most was imagining a small spot where I want the bullets to go and fitting the pistol to my hand from Ben Stoeger.

I also saw a video about the angle of your elbow during the draw and that does seem to make a difference. I think it was Baer Solutions.
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Something I saw in a video that was a total game changer for me was to practice pointing at things with your off-dominant hand's thumb. Using this grip that was posted earlier I just point with my thumb like I practice and things just automagically line up, after doing the pointing practice I didn't have to do any extra practice to make things click, it just worked.

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I do most of my practice one-handed though, so I don't have the thumb crutch to help line things up. I knew it would be a problem in stressful situations so I went with an optic that does a bit to help. Rather than just a dot, it has a 32 MOA ring as well as the 2 MOA dot (HS507K X2 GR). As you might can guess the ring is much, much easier to find and honestly I think it's all you'd need at self-defense ranges, though it doesn't hurt to have the dot as well

I forget who made it and it may not have even gone into production, but something I saw at a trade show was an optic with like a 128 MOA ring, absolutely massive. While looking through the optic straight-on you literally couldn't see it, but if you were off it seemed to make it extremely easy to correct and get your center. If I was buying another CCW optic I'd definitely be looking into that, though I'm extremely satisfied with the holosun. Aside from hair and dust getting into it, which is basically a nonissue but not ideal, I don't have any issues with it. If they did an enclosed version of it for a similar price I'd definitely consider upgrading
 
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The_Red_Man said:
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO PRACTICE WHEN IM POOR AND THE JEWS HAVE MADE AMMO TOO EXPENSIVE
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Airsoft. Not joking. Some airsoft jap managed to place in a competition with almost no firearms training or experience and it was all airsoft experience. A replica gas blowback at a room range is pretty decent practice. A hoodie and a hat are decent targets to use. Even better if it’s a hoodie with graphic logos you can pick out. You can practice draws from concealment, draws from concealment while moving, sitting draws, reloads, etc
 
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AncientPhosphur said:
Airsoft. Not joking. Some airsoft jap managed to place in a competition with almost no firearms training or experience and it was all airsoft experience. A replica gas blowback at a room range is pretty decent practice. A hoodie and a hat are decent targets to use. Even better if it’s a hoodie with graphic logos you can pick out. You can practice draws from concealment, draws from concealment while moving, sitting draws, reloads, etc
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As long as we are qualifying that airsoft falls under dry fire practice, 100%. Please keep in mind that Botkin is an expert coach and that air softer had what amounts to thousands of hours of dry fire. Airsoft, the gun, is a useful tool for getting a fast sight picture and such. Airsoft the sport will instill in you some bad habits, such as "dragging" your string of fire and one hit KOs
 
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Boney said:
Botkin is an expert coach
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Was with you except for this. Like what he does for the 2A and can be an excellent source of info on some topics but he’s just not a coach and has zero experience real world or competition (couldn’t lift a 100lb dummy in one competition and dropped from it). His shooting videos are all flash and repeat runs. The time he had a special forces group come out to the range he just did photos and videos while they did their drills. The rest of SF found out and that team got bullied to hell.

I’d say the biggest issue with airsoft as a substitute is if you’re watching for hits instead of sights. It’s the same for some shooters who instead of following up with the sights on target they pull the gun back and look at their groups. But for basics like target transitions and reloads it’s pretty good. You have to be aware you’re doing down the sights and not walking it in however.
 
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AncientPhosphur said:
Was with you except for this. Like what he does for the 2A and can be an excellent source of info on some topics but he’s just not a coach and has zero experience real world or competition (couldn’t lift a 100lb dummy in one competition and dropped from it). His shooting videos are all flash and repeat runs. The time he had a special forces group come out to the range he just did photos and videos while they did their drills. The rest of SF found out and that team got bullied to hell.

I’d say the biggest issue with airsoft as a substitute is if you’re watching for hits instead of sights. It’s the same for some shooters who instead of following up with the sights on target they pull the gun back and look at their groups. But for basics like target transitions and reloads it’s pretty good. You have to be aware you’re doing down the sights and not walking it in however.
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I'll walk back expert. He's a very good coach. His videos instructing people how to shoot are mostly spot on, easy to follow, good advice, but if the limitations of his coaching are reached in his video guides than I would say he falls short of expert.

I don't put a lot of stock in gun tuber speculations. In my experience what you see is what you get with these guys.

Way to damn quite in here.
 
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AncientPhosphur said:
I’d say the biggest issue with airsoft as a substitute is if you’re watching for hits instead of sights. It’s the same for some shooters who instead of following up with the sights on target they pull the gun back and look at their groups. But for basics like target transitions and reloads it’s pretty good. You have to be aware you’re doing down the sights and not walking it in however.
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Holy fuck, couldn't agree more with target focus and sights telling you what you got instead of waiting for/looking for hit confirmation. You're way behind the curve if that's how you're shooting. Anyone can train how they want to but I achieved master status in production and CO just doing dry fire in my office with different targets I taped to the wall.

An excellent video I saw the other day related to grip training is this one. Worth a watch if you have the time and the environment to concentrate.
Pretend To Imagine said:
People are over in the gun thread jerking off about gear that most of them probably aren’t proficient with.
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How dare you!
 
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Dean Pentel said:
Holy fuck, couldn't agree more with target focus and sights telling you what you got instead of waiting for/looking for hit confirmation. You're way behind the curve if that's how you're shooting. Anyone can train how they want to but I achieved master status in production and CO just doing dry fire in my office with different targets I taped to the wall.

An excellent video I saw the other day related to grip training is this one. Worth a watch if you have the time and the environment to concentrate.

How dare you!
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It’s unfortunate but true that most people aren’t proficient.
 
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Pretend To Imagine said:
It’s unfortunate but true that most people aren’t proficient.
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I think the core problem is people don't realize how accessible a lot of this is. Finding a decent range is a lot harder than acquiring a new toy.
Dean Pentel said:
Anyone can train how they want to but I achieved master status in production and CO just doing dry fire in my office with different targets I taped to the wall.
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Master status, Jesus Christ. Was humbled recently shooting with some USPSA guys. Could barely keep up with the B class.
 
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Pretend To Imagine said:
It’s unfortunate but true that most people aren’t proficient.
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There’s definitely a huge curve. If you’re taking classes and shoot regularly you’re above 90% of all gun owners. If you’re competing you’re at like less than a percent and even at that level you’ll still find a ceiling you can’t reach.

The shooting requirements for my ccw and hearing my family talk about guns really opened my eyes to just how bad some gun owners are and how autistic I am about guns. There’s a 70% accuracy test on a fuck huge silhouette target up close and I’ve seen people fail that.

Boney said:
I think the core problem is people don't realize how accessible a lot of this is. Finding a decent range is a lot harder than acquiring a new toy.
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I’m thankful for some of the guys who travel and teach because they introduce me to a bunch of ranges I never knew existed and hoping on practiscore introduced me to a small place I pass by regularly I didn’t know existed. Right now I’m trying to find a decent 200-300 yard range to practice on that isn’t membership only with mandatory days I have to be there.
 
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Boney said:
Nice. Any particular skill you are working on?
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First drill of the day: 4 teams of 2. Rifle. Shooting at a 8” steel plate at 100 yards from multiple positions on a vtac, and shooting at 2/3 silhouette from a folding chair (top, seat, and under). First team to complete wins.

Second drill: 4 teams of 2. Pistol. Shooting at 2/3 silhouette from vtac at 40 yards then standing unsupported at an A Zone. 60 seconds to get as many hits as possible. Team with most A zone hits wins.

Third: individual. Pistol. Standing unsupported. Draw and engage a 8” plate and 4” plate from 10 yards. Move then engage 2/3 silhouette at 25 yards, move then engage silhouette again at 25 yards.

Forth: individual. Rifle. Standing unsupported. Move then engage 2/3 silhouette at 50 yards, move then engage 2/3 silhouette at 50 yards, move then engage two 2/3 silhouettes at 50 yards.

Fifth: individual. Pistol. Seated. Draw and engage two 4” paper targets at 7 yards, then engage 2/3 silhouette at 25 yards.
 
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