Game of Thrones Thread

Again, it's D&D misunderstanding the source material, but absent GRRM's input it's hard to tell if the series will end with magic being normalised again or dying with the dragons in the final fight against the ice zombies. I'm inclined to think even GRRM doesn't know how that'll go.

What's troubling to me is that GRRM is of a generation that went through Catholic school and has his worldview framed by opposing its authority. Being atheistic was transgressive 50 years ago but now it's unironically boring. Still, he's writing a series set in a medieval analogue and he figured it needs a Catholicism analogue too. TROUBLE IS, from the frozen north to the Ancient East, their minority religions have verifiable powers. Be it resurrection, shape shifting, and so on. Even the fucking goatpeople are able to prevent death--even choosing their preferred degree of what qualifies as "alive". Maybe these skills are independent of their faiths but they're presented as exclusively used by one faction or another, and the religious rituals clearly facilitate them somehow. How the hell could The Seven ever take hold if they don't have anything supernatural going for them? I don't think GRRM considered such reciprocity when worldbuilding, and it stems from his own biases of it all being made up lmao.
Rhallor seems to be the more appropriate christian analogue but the whole concept of religion seems to be a mess in the ASoIF world even without factoring magic. It's like if you pulled a card out of the hat for each region rather than think of an organic spread of religion that is affected by the different locales.
 
Rhallor seems to be the more appropriate christian analogue but the whole concept of religion seems to be a mess in the ASoIF world even without factoring magic. It's like if you pulled a card out of the hat for each region rather than think of an organic spread of religion that is affected by the different locales.

It's because todays TV writers live in an atheistic bubble and have no concept of the idea that people might serve or revere something higher than themselves. Even their Social Justice crusades are nothing more than self-serving ego trips. They'll turn on values on a dime if doing so will net them more status. And none of them have the time to research religion and moral philosophy, and probably think that people who do have something wrong with them.

There's also the "throw something in because it looks cool" aspect of fantasy writing. That's why you'll see a lot of mixing and matching in fantasy when it comes to clothing and architecture. Hell, even Tolkien had his Hobbits wearing 18th Century style coats while most of the human/elf characters wore medieval robes. It's why in Japanese anime you'll see religions that mix Catholic iconography and Eastern philosophy, or shows that throw angels and crosses around, that bear no resemblance to their counterparts in Christianity.
 
The books and the tv series are fundamentally different creatures. ASOIAF is GRRM melding his simplistic disdain for the Vietnam war and the Bush adventures (bad people do bad things when they have power) with a pretty overt climate change analogue, which everybody ignores because it isn't an immediate threat to them.

Game of Thrones as a tv production, is sort of a monument to whats wrong with Western Culture in the 2010s. Subversion for its own sake, resulting in an inferior product to the original.
It tries to distinguish itself from past eras by being both grander in vision to what came before but also darker, and more cynical. It's not afraid to offend with sex and gore, and yet at the first sign of real public outcry crumbles like an old woman's hip. Child sacrifice got virtually 0 backlash on grounds of morality, whilst a forced marriage and rape earlier in the season was triggering enough to get all future sex scenes scrubbed and sanitised henceforth.
The stately figures are demonstrably past their prime, and feel like they squandered their youth, while the younger characters have been given a multitude of reasons to be unhappy with the status quo only to have their energies misdirected in the worst of ways. Eventually, the ones that survive to the final series have developed skills to be game-changers in their own right, but the pay-off isn't proportional to their efforts, if it's even there at all.
There's plenty to be optimistic about, and the long-term threats can be tackled constructively, but instead ugliness and nihilism wins out almost all the time, and in the cheapest of ways. And then, because the writers want to chart their own path and reject the tropes of past eras, wind up creating a story that still relies on those same tropes by way of subversive contrast, and is nonetheless inferior for it. Any potential hero that naturally arises over a nigh-decade of constant loss and bloodshed has to be quickly taken down a notch in case the audience is confused the show will have a happy ending. "There are no heroes, that's all folks!" is not a compelling and timeless tale.
It's nearly a case study in why literary tropes became tropes. Because running away from them invariably results in crafting something that just fails to resonate with people.
At some stage, probably when writing season 5, D&D realised the trajectory they've got the important characters on was so fundamentally divergent from their book counterparts, that they could have pitched to GRRM a different ending more befitting them. Instead, they continued haphazardly towards an end goal that no longer made sense, and fans in the final seasons were totally wise to things just happening because the writers demanded it occur. When it should have been, and originally was, an organic consequence of character motivations and the world itself.
D&D? More like TNT haha. They blew this franchise's cultural impact up in the space of about 4 weeks with those final episodes.
The only reason I can't agree with this wholeheartedly is that this feels like it gives Dumb&Dumber way more agency and attributes way more thought processes onto them than I expect them to have.
It makes it seem like they had some sort of plan or idea that they build up and I think they just flew by the pants of their seats, going "We'll figure it out eventually", which - as we all saw - they never did. So they just went with some bizarre bullshit, yapping "bet you didn't see that comin'!"
 
Ok im sorry to necro this thread but something hilarious occured to me today.

What if the reason the overrated walrus hackfraud has taken so fucking long releasing the next book is because he is in actuality rewriting A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons to fit the original "time skip" idea?

Just imagine.... Every embittered fanboy is checking every day for an update, still burning with fury at the shitshow of the tv series, and then one day there is an announcement that "THE NEW BOOK WILL BE RELEASED NEXT MONTH" and in mindless consoomer joy they all pre order it, and after weeks of furious masturbation as to finally being able to see what "really" happened next, on the day of release they all get their packages in the mail and open them up......only to discover that George R R Martin has just reset the fucking timer back to 2005.
 
Ok im sorry to necro this thread but something hilarious occured to me today.

What if the reason the overrated walrus hackfraud has taken so fucking long releasing the next book is because he is in actuality rewriting A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons to fit the original "time skip" idea?

Just imagine.... Every embittered fanboy is checking every day for an update, still burning with fury at the shitshow of the tv series, and then one day there is an announcement that "THE NEW BOOK WILL BE RELEASED NEXT MONTH" and in mindless consoomer joy they all pre order it, and after weeks of furious masturbation as to finally being able to see what "really" happened next, on the day of release they all get their packages in the mail and open them up......only to discover that George R R Martin has just reset the fucking timer back to 2005.

Nah, he's just aping Tolkien in the last years of his life, puttering around his garden and playing solitaire while telling everyone he was totally working on The Silmarillion. Except Tolkien had laurels to rest on in the form of a story that was actually finished.
 
Ok im sorry to necro this thread but something hilarious occured to me today.

What if the reason the overrated walrus hackfraud has taken so fucking long releasing the next book is because he is in actuality rewriting A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons to fit the original "time skip" idea?

Just imagine.... Every embittered fanboy is checking every day for an update, still burning with fury at the shitshow of the tv series, and then one day there is an announcement that "THE NEW BOOK WILL BE RELEASED NEXT MONTH" and in mindless consoomer joy they all pre order it, and after weeks of furious masturbation as to finally being able to see what "really" happened next, on the day of release they all get their packages in the mail and open them up......only to discover that George R R Martin has just reset the fucking timer back to 2005.

That implies that this fat, lazy fuck is working, which I seriously fucking doubt.
 
Not another word.

 
Not another word.


Can we just add that this whole "muh entitled fans" thing needs to die horribly? Of course the fans are entitled. They pay your fucking wages. The least you can do is provide a quality product. This doesn't mean provide something that everyone likes, but that even the people who don't like it can understand the thought processes behind and respect. I mean, I don't like documentaries about the history of German diesel locomotives and how they work and their importance in the grand scheme of rail transport, but I can respect the work and the scholarship that has gone into it. But Game of Thrones series 8 was just a lazy crock of shit writing because Dumb & Dumber couldn't be arsed which was fundamentally misconceived and just plain stupid, and the rest of the work that went into it was just polishing the turd.
 
Can we just add that this whole "muh entitled fans" thing needs to die horribly? Of course the fans are entitled. They pay your fucking wages. The least you can do is provide a quality product. This doesn't mean provide something that everyone likes, but that even the people who don't like it can understand the thought processes behind and respect. I mean, I don't like documentaries about the history of German diesel locomotives and how they work and their importance in the grand scheme of rail transport, but I can respect the work and the scholarship that has gone into it. But Game of Thrones series 8 was just a lazy crock of shit writing because Dumb & Dumber couldn't be arsed which was fundamentally misconceived and just plain stupid, and the rest of the work that went into it was just polishing the turd.

I'd like to add to this with my dumb take on Neil Gaiman's "GRRM is not your bitch" when it comes to the books. Obviously artists are not forced to do their work (not by us, but the publishers in general anyway) But imagine if that was accepted and the norm:

author: "Hey I am a writer and I will write these X amounts of books in Y amount of years"
reader:"Well okay, but you might not finish it so there's no reason for me to be emotionally or financially invested, so I'll get back to you in Y years when and if you're done."

We would have no franchises, which in this era of endless sequels and remakes might not sound such a bad idea, but such long form storytelling is great. In GRRM's case there's an extra slap in the face because he was writing other books in the franchise just not the flagship books. And nobody would give a shit about the Silmarillion if the LotR books werent finished, and nobody will give a shit about the ASOIAF history books because the main series books will never be finished.
 
Everyone has forgotten this series so hard, it's like it never existed.

Well, the last season killed whatever enthusiasm people might have had for the prequel series HBO was developing. And its been eight years since Dance was released, so the books have been thoroughly dissected. There's not really anything to discuss until the new show comes out and/or GRRM dies (heck, I'd even be excited for The She-Wolves of Winterfell at this point).
 
Well, the last season killed whatever enthusiasm people might have had for the prequel series HBO was developing. And its been eight years since Dance was released, so the books have been thoroughly dissected. There's not really anything to discuss until the new show comes out and/or GRRM dies (heck, I'd even be excited for The She-Wolves of Winterfell at this point).
I would kill for another Dunk and Egg, but those are even more dead than TWOW.
People are also generally more apathetic regarding the series, even when newbies come along. If the broad strokes of the show's ending are accurate (and GRRM claims they are, more or less) then he either needs two massive books or, more likely, a third to get there with any buildup. It's been 9 years now, and fewer and fewer people get mad and link you Neil Gaiman's whining about GRRM not being anyone's bitch when you say the series is never coming out or that GRRM has written himself into a corner/lost interest.
 
Everyone has forgotten this series so hard, it's like it never existed.
It's fascinating just how quickly the "greatest show of all time" faded into irrelevancy after shitting the bed so hard the last two seasons. It's almost a case study in how to run a franchise into the ground. Martin has been described as the American Tolkien, the difference is that Tolkien actually finished his works and they will be remembered for generations to come (unless the IP holders ruin that as well). A Song of Ice and Fire has not been finished yet and Martin is already in his 70s while the show's subversion of expectations has left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. I get that it's not all Martin's fault, but if he had finished the books first, then maybe this whole thing could have been avoided.
 
Everyone has forgotten this series so hard, it's like it never existed.

And amazingly enough, the memory hole seems to have eaten Dan and Dave as well. Remember how M. Night Shamalamadingdong was able to coast for about fifteen years on about 1.75 good movies? D&D botch the landing and move on to other projects... all of which unceremoniously shitcanned. Are they currently doing anything above infomercial tier right now?
 
And amazingly enough, the memory hole seems to have eaten Dan and Dave as well. Remember how M. Night Shamalamadingdong was able to coast for about fifteen years on about 1.75 good movies? D&D botch the landing and move on to other projects... all of which unceremoniously shitcanned. Are they currently doing anything above infomercial tier right now?

The sad part is the two of them have enough money not to give a shit if they ever write another word.
 
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