Game of Thrones Thread

[vulg]

Isn't that one of the reasons why Preston Jacobs believes the entire setting is a post-apocalyptic science-fiction one disguised as fantasy?

Preston and his community can often be histrionic fags, but he's fundamentally right that there's likely no Gods or "magic" in ASOIAF and that a lot of the supernatural/ mega structures can be explained through sci-fi (which George has a long history of writing about) reasoning.

The closest thing we'll probably get to "gods" is some of the Lovecraftian elements that has been hinting at.

I also feel like that George has been planning on some sci-fi reveal, but is extremely hesitant for fear of backlash, and this might also contribute to why it's taking so long for him to write (outside of his sheer procrastination).

The problem is even if we accept the secret sci-fi premise, there's still a lot of problems in the world building (like language and societal structure) that break the hyper-realism that George and his fans will claim he's aiming for.

 

[7he47r0n]

Preston and his community can often be histrionic fags, but he's fundamentally right that there's likely no Gods or "magic" in ASOIAF and that a lot of the supernatural/ mega structures can be explained through sci-fi (which George has a long history of writing about) reasoning.

The closest thing we'll probably get to "gods" is some of the Lovecraftian elements that has been hinting at.

I also feel like that George has been planning on some sci-fi reveal, but is extremely hesitant for fear of backlash, and this might also contribute to why it's taking so long for him to write (outside of his sheer procrastination).

The problem is even if we accept the secret sci-fi premise, there's still a lot of problems in the world building (like language and societal structure) that break the hyper-realism that George and his fans will claim he's aiming for.

What's your opinion on his theory that the main antagonist of the series are, in truth, the Children of the Forest?

I feel like all the people coming up with long, convoluted explanations for why GRRM hasn't finished Winds of Winter are giving the story and GRRM too much credit.

The multitude of subplots in the books aren't all that complex, and they will be consolidated very quickly once Winter encroaches on the south and forces all the different factions to smash into each other.

And GRRM isn't some overworked author, tirelessly trying to put together an overly complex narrative in a way that makes sense. No, he's a fat goon who got lazy and addicted to the immediate gratification endorphin rush that being a famous multi-millionaire brings you. Covid is the only reason he's gotten any work done in the last decade because it basically took all his toys away from him. No movie theatre to run. No conventions to fly off to. Can't take a impromptu vacation to Antarctica to rescue to a huskie. Etc., etc. He still manages to procrastinate by blogging and working on "projects" with Hollywood folk over zoom, but that only takes up so much time and with no filming taking place, he can't sit around set being fawned on all day as a visionary genius.

Now if we could get two more years of lockdown, GRRM might be able to finish Winds. But with things starting to open up, he's going to go from writing 200 words a day back to writing 200 words a year.

Does anyone on this thread still holds to the belief that Mr. Martin will actually finish his novels? By this point in time I've resigned myself to the thought that his work will be finished by someone much more disciplined - and hungry for success and recognition - once he passes away. I'm also fairly certain that said person shall also throw away half of the ideas Mr. Martin will leave behind, and try to live up to at least some of the complex theories out there. For all we know, and maybe it would even be the optimal route, the aforementioned future author shall simply pick the most interesting ones, and include them into his works.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Tell that to Johan DeWitt.

As a Dutch mob politely ate his liver.
Pretty fucking metal.

 

[vulg]

What's your opinion on his theory that the main antagonist of the series are, in truth, the Children of the Forest?

I'm not too familiar with that theory, but I feel like the Children covertly possessing a great amount of "evil" is definitely in line with the themes and plots of the story.

I feel like a lot of themes and elements of the books stem from Cold-War era hippie thinking, the era the author grew up in.

throughout the series powerful men/great houses fight with each other at the expense and suffering of the Small-Folk, all while the Small-Folk have no comprehension what's really going and is never to their benefit.

in this same vein, I feel like there are several "magical" factions, like the Children, Maestors, Essosi mystics, etc, who are fighting a similar Cold War like conflict internationally with each other. Like the Small-Folk, this is beyond the comprehension of the powerful figures of our story, and they will suffer from this Cold War being waged.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

What's your opinion on his theory that the main antagonist of the series are, in truth, the Children of the Forest?

The book series hasn't even established a "main antagonist" yet (if such a thing is even possible), so I don't understand the point of anticipating there being a super secret antagonist pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Is somebody sending dreams to characters to spur them into action? Possibly. But the world is too complex and there are too many moving pieces for anyone--even the Children of the Forest--to predict what effect a single person being motivated by dreams will have on Westeros.

I prefer the Littlefinger reading of the story. Everybody's just doing their own thing (including the CotF), and the cleverest and most bloodthirsty are using the resulting chaos to benefit themselves.

Shame Littlefinger came to such a stupid end in the show:

Spoiler

 

[7he47r0n]

I don't think it's a matter of scope but rather a matter of the plot being very much obvious at this point. Everything is way too telegraphed so the SUVERTING MAH EXPECTATION the series is known for will not work without risking massive changes. Which is a fitting fate for this kind of post modern type of writing.

It also doesn't help that, due to how many years have passed, every possible outcome has already been thought about and "theorised" by the larger community. At this point in time it's almost impossible to write something that will prove to be more interesting or unexpected.

 

[7he47r0n]

I've come to terms it will never come. Roy Dotrice was my personal homunculus hour glass - when he dies, my hope for Winds dies. Watching the series rape itself through House of the Dragon et all. provides it's own entertainment.

I haven't read it, truth be told, so I'll ask - what's wrong with House of the Dragon?

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

The one truly nice idea in the later seasons of GoT was the reveal that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers as a means to fight back against the First Men taking over their continent... so I expect that to be based on Martin's cliffnotes and one of the few things legitimately connected to how the book was supposed to end (at some point).
Doesn't mean the CotF are the big bad evil guys of the setting/story who secretly pull all strings from behind the curtains, it's just a detail about the origin of the White Walkers: The desperation of the CotF to push back against humans with catastrophic results that they didn't anticipate, that even threatened themselves. If you want some connection between Martin's supposed hippy-heritage and his work, you don't have to come up with silly ideas about the White Walkers being misunderstood and by the end, will live happily ever after with humans hand in hand - White Walkers are a personification of death and their creation to saveguard the CotF is a metaphor for nuclear arms being created to protect a nation and becoming an existential threat to every living thing.

Also, I doubt there is some "The world of ASOIAF is actually a post-apocalyptic wonderland of magic-like technology" nonsense twist.

 

[vulg]

I haven't read it, truth be told, so I'll ask - what's wrong with House of the Dragon?

its the upcoming show, one of three spinoffs to GoT, mostly likely going to be a trainwreck

 

[7he47r0n]

its the upcoming show, one of three spinoffs to GoT, mostly likely going to be a trainwreck

Oh, so that's why I never heard of it. For a moment I thought I'm really out of the loop. Thank you very much, friend!

 

[Tasty Tatty]

FYI, Preston isn't very liked in ASOIAF communities because he's the kind of obsessive fan who thinks every single word or action it's a hint for a secret conspiracy and he over analyzes everything.

"Acshually, such character isn't really dead despite we've seen his body because reasons reasons reasons".

Martin himself has said it's not that complicated and most of the plots in the books can be easily explained. If there was a sci-fi plot twist, we should now have obvious hints just like the red wedding had in the previous books.

 

[vulg]

FYI, Preston isn't very liked in ASOIAF communities because he's the kind of obsessive fan who thinks every single word or action it's a hint for a secret conspiracy and he over analyzes everything.

"Acshually, such character isn't really dead despite we've seen his body because reasons reasons reasons".

Martin himself has said it's not that complicated and most of the plots in the books can be easily explained. If there was a sci-fi plot twist, we should now have obvious hints just like the red wedding had in the previous books.

yeah I think he’s unironically on the spectrum.

broadly speaking he has good ideas, but when he zeros in on something it becomes an autistic tangled mess.

videos like The Frey Civil war are good examples of him moderating his autism.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

The one truly nice idea in the later seasons of GoT was the reveal that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers as a means to fight back against the First Men taking over their continent.

I hope that is a DnD idea because it ruined the hell out of the mystique of The White Walkers. "Oh the Children of the Forest are fuckups and didn't even own it to their allies after the peace was made."

 

[X Pac Heat]

Who would have thought the Night King was a fan of intergalactic basketball?

Does George get to sign off on this or do they just own the rights Night King and TV stuff straight up?

 

[Ginger Piglet]

I hope that is a DnD idea because it ruined the hell out of the mystique of The White Walkers. "Oh the Children of the Forest are fuckups and didn't even own it to their allies after the peace was made."

I have a horrible feeling it's a GRRM idea. As is Bran the Wheely Wheely Legs No Feely being king. I suspect the latter is an artifact of the very original plan he had when it was only going to be three books and not suffer from endless plot tumours. Dovetails with his defenestration as being the event which kicks everything off.

 

[7he47r0n]

I have a horrible feeling it's a GRRM idea. As is Bran the Wheely Wheely Legs No Feely being king. I suspect the latter is an artifact of the very original plan he had when it was only going to be three books and not suffer from endless plot tumours. Dovetails with his defenestration as being the event which kicks everything off.

Not to mention he REALLY enjoys the "crippled child with supernatural powers" trope.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

View attachment 2055889

Who would have thought the Night King was a fan of intergalactic basketball?

Does George get to sign off on this or do they just own the rights Night King and TV stuff straight up?

Probably no more than Anthony Burgess signed off on Alex and his droogs being fans.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I have a horrible feeling it's a GRRM idea. As is Bran the Wheely Wheely Legs No Feely being king. I suspect the latter is an artifact of the very original plan he had when it was only going to be three books and not suffer from endless plot tumours. Dovetails with his defenestration as being the event which kicks everything off.

I dunno, this feels so out of left field... if the show had actually worked towards this in the slightest, it might not be as terrible as it was, but it's still not a particularly good end. Bran seems to be on a trajectory for a different role at the end.

If I had to wager a guess, Jon Snow might become the future King, but it could easily go in several different directions in the books. One theory suggests that Jon Snow, Daenerys and Tyrion (supposedly being Aerys' bastard son) end up on the throne like the guy that conquered Westeros in the past with his two sisters.
Depending on how it's handled, there are many ways to go about the ending, but having Bran be King, Bron be the Master of Coin and Sam writing a book where he accidentally leaves out Tyrion has to be the single most idiotic ending to this series that I can imagine... Well, anything short of Hot Pie becoming King after a reveal that he was behind it all and that he was secretly Aerys in disguise all along or similarly deliberate attempts to come up with something more idiotic.

Not to mention he REALLY enjoys the "crippled child with supernatural powers" trope.

Can't say anything about his other works and if that's a trope that he liked to use there too, but ASOIAF has a plethora of characters with supernatural abilities, that pay a high price for those abilities, Bran is just one of them.

 

[LionoRaptor]

Im guessing the books will be the same as the show but with more care and detail in explaining the story.
Like the Snyder Cut.

NORTH:
Stannis beats Roose but dies. Jon unites everyone and slays Ramsay.
ESSOS: Dany goes full Dothraki khal and kills all challengers. Sends khalasar across the sea with Selmy alive having successfully defended Mereen.

Tyrion joins with fAegon and captures some place. Eventually unites fAegon with Dany into an arranged marriage. All Targs must stick together etc.
RIVERLANDS: Lady Stobeheart capping Freys mofos left and right. Eventually rakes iver the Twins.

LF and Sansa make a duo working with Jon to take back North. Putting power balance back in North.

Cersei eventually blows up Sept killing Sparrows. If Marg Tyrell is alive she could either marry Jon , FAegon or LF giving more power to LF.

Arya gets training and becomes Killer gets sent back to Westeros to cap mofos.

Sam learns all he can and get info back to Jon.
Will update this further but you get the gist.

 

[7he47r0n]

Is it confirmed that "Aegon" is in fact false?