Game of Thrones Thread

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Euron winning would be cool because of the cthulu shit finally adding up to something

That could be the case. Or it could be just one big fat lie and all the Cthulhu shit was just building up for nothing.

Martin is quite critical of modern feminism, or was when he wrote Cersei's Feast chapters.

He whines about the Middle Ages being sexist as hell against women, when in reality, there were things women could do in the real Medieval Europe that women couldn't do in Westeros. Like say, join female knightly orders. Or run businesses or towns on their own. That whole legend about Lady Godiva riding naked through the town of Coventry to protest her husband's taxation policy was nonsense; she owned the fucking town and could raise or lower taxes at will.

The Dance wouldn't make sense if Rhaenyra was not a woman.

The Dance doesn't make sense at all. Rhaenyra had all the advantages, from the strongest fortresses, more dragons, the strongest navies in the realm, more lords on her side, and she still fucking loses. Talk about grasping defeat from the jaws of victory. What should've been a crushing victory ended in a gruesome defeat.

 

[God of Nothing]

That could be the case. Or it could be just one big fat lie and all the Cthulhu shit was just building up for nothing.

It wouldn't surprise me at this point, to be honest. I don't even expect to ever see the next book.

 

[madethistocomment]

The Dance doesn't make sense at all. Rhaenyra had all the advantages, from the strongest fortresses, more dragons, the strongest navies in the realm, more lords on her side, and she still fucking loses.

The Greens going up against all of the most powerful kingdoms in Westeros, the most powerful navy in the world, and 13 fucking dragons with only three dragons and a dream and still managing to squeak out a victory is fucking hilarious to me.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It wouldn't surprise me at this point, to be honest. I don't even expect to ever see the next book.

I'd be fine if the magic in the series was at least somewhat of a coincidence and illusion rather than literal assassin fetuses. Makes you wonder why anyone would worship the Seven when they seemingly the only ones without magic. The answer is probably that the Seven is Christ analogy, so therefore must be fake, while only Pagans can have their gods be real in modern media.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The Greens going up against all of the most powerful kingdoms in Westeros, the most powerful navy in the world, and 13 fucking dragons with three dragons and a dream and still managing to squeak out a victory is fucking hilarious to me.

My point exactly. If I were GRRM, I'd have made this war less lopsided and more grueling. Like, more along the lines of WW1.

I'd be fine if the magic in the series was at least somewhat of a coincidence and illusion rather than literal assassin fetuses. Makes you wonder why anyone would worship the Seven when they seemingly the only ones without magic. The answer is probably that the Seven is Christ analogy, so therefore must be fake, while only Pagans can have their gods be real in modern media.

Which is fucking hilarious. Christianity spread through the Roman Empire through faith healing and other things that people would consider supernatural power. Countries today where a lot of faith healers and mystics wander about are also bastions of faith, especially Christian faith. Places like Eastern Europe and the Philippines have a lot of faith healers and fortune tellers, and you'll see a lot of Jesus banners on the streets. It's only the detached modern liberals who pretty much think all Christ-analogies must be fake. Although I wouldn't be too quick to accuse GRRM of being one of them, since there are still some very Christian things with the Lord of Light religion; especially with Stannis' symbol of the flaming heart looking like the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

Disney damage control shills of breadtube are now defending GRRM. Go figure.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The show changing it so that Alicent thought Viserys had a last-minute change of mind about the succession muddles the story in more shades of grey morality. In the books, the Greens are just usurping bastards, they knew Viserys wanted Rhaenyra on the throne, but they defied him after he died anyways. But in the show, with Alicent's testimony, they honestly believed that the king was on their side, approving of Aegon's ascension into the throne. Now, both sides think that Viserys blessed their side's candidate for the throne. Granted, the Greens in the Small Council were going to usurp Rhaenyra anyways, but then they heard about the king's supposed change of mind, and they thought that he blessed their long-laid plans to replace Rhaenyra with Aegon.

Disney damage control shills of breadtube are now defending GRRM. Go figure.

Of course. Just like Disney, GRRM hates the ''toxic fans'' and he promotes leftism through his works. This whole ''Dance of Dragons'' thing was him whining about the patriarchy not accepting female leaders and the problems it caused; the idea that they would turn down a perfectly good leader just because she doesn't have a chubby between her legs.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

Of course. Just like Disney, GRRM hates the ''toxic fans'' and he promotes leftism through his works. This whole ''Dance of Dragons'' thing was him whining about the patriarchy not accepting female leaders

He and his butt buddy Micheal Moorcock popularized bashing Tolkien in the first place. Yet GRRM can’t write a single medieval society that functions logically.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

He and his butt buddy Micheal Moorcock popularized bashing Tolkien in the first place. Yet GRRM can’t write a single medieval society that functions logically.

Exactly. If Rhaenyra becoming the heir was handled logically, it would have the king say something along the lines of ''you will become my heir until a son is born to me''. Fuck, Stannis even told Renly that back in Game of Thrones Season 2.

GRRM and Michael Moorcock bashing Tolkien is fucking hilarious, given that those two will forever be in Tolkien's shadow since the latter's work is legendary when compared to Elric or ASOIAF.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

GRRM and Michael Moorcock bashing Tolkien is fucking hilarious, given that those two will forever be in Tolkien's shadow since the latter's work is legendary when compared to Elric or ASOIAF.

What did Moorcock make that stuck around besides maybe the idea of dark elves (which is very basic subversion)? Even the Order vs Chaos war is more well known for Warhammer than Elric.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

What did Moorcock make that stuck around besides maybe the idea of dark elves (which is very basic subversion)? Even the Order vs Chaos war is more well known for Warhammer than Elric.

It had a rather large influence on earlier editions of D&D before it became gay superfriends with zippertits in wheelchairs.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

The show changing it so that Alicent thought Viserys had a last-minute change of mind about the succession muddles the story in more shades of grey morality. In the books, the Greens are just usurping bastards, they knew Viserys wanted Rhaenyra on the throne, but they defied him after he died anyways. But in the show, with Alicent's testimony, they honestly believed that the king was on their side, approving of Aegon's ascension into the throne. Now, both sides think that Viserys blessed their side's candidate for the throne. Granted, the Greens in the Small Council were going to usurp Rhaenyra anyways, but then they heard about the king's supposed change of mind, and they thought that he blessed their long-laid plans to replace Rhaenyra with Aegon.

The show is quite obviously making Alicent a victim. I can't remember any moment in the book when she's portrayed as this. They even had that semi sex scene when she's so disturbed as if arranged marriages weren't a norm. Seems like whoever writes the show wants to imply she's jealous that Rhaenyra can sex whoever she wants...

Exactly. If Rhaenyra becoming the heir was handled logically, it would have the king say something along the lines of ''you will become my heir until a son is born to me''. Fuck, Stannis even told Renly that back in Game of Thrones Season 2.

Making Stannis a hypocrite because he then says Shireen is his only heir his men should fight for. He has no problem with a woman leader if it's his own...

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Making Stannis a hypocrite because he then says Shireen is his only heir his men should fight for. He has no problem with a woman leader if it's his own...

By that time, Renly was long dead. So it makes sense that Stannis would make his men fight for Shireen.

The show is quite obviously making Alicent a victim. I can't remember any moment in the book when she's portrayed as this. They even had that semi sex scene when she's so disturbed as if arranged marriages weren't a norm. Seems like whoever writes the show wants to imply she's jealous that Rhaenyra can sex whoever she wants...

It's to contrast between the two; like what Honest Trailers said about it, about how Rhaenyra fights for women's rights against the women's wrongs of Alicent Hightower, because the latter is willing to work with the patriarchy while the former wants to press her claim against it.

What did Moorcock make that stuck around besides maybe the idea of dark elves (which is very basic subversion)? Even the Order vs Chaos war is more well known for Warhammer than Elric.

Albino spellswords, I suppose. Razorfist, a Moorcock fanboy, cannot shut his mouth over how every long-haired albino with a sword is somehow Elric.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Albino spellswords, I suppose. Razorfist, a Moorcock fanboy, cannot shut his mouth over how every long-haired albino with a sword is somehow Elric.

I refuse to believe that Moorcock was the first person to think of an idea of magical albino, it's not only one of the most mary-suish traits, but even in Africa they think those people are magical.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I refuse to believe that Moorcock was the first person to think of an idea of magical albino, it's not only one of the most mary-suish traits, but even in Africa they think those people are magical.

Exactly. He probably got the idea from other cultures. Just as GRRM got the idea for ASOIAF from the Wars of the Roses.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

It's to contrast between the two; like what Honest Trailers said about it, about how Rhaenyra fights for women's rights against the women's wrongs of Alicent Hightower, because the latter is willing to work with the patriarchy while the former wants to press her claim against it.

That's also a very shallow interpretation. Rhaenyra ain't fighting for women's rights: she's fighting for HER rights which shouldn't be put aside because she's a woman. It's not the same. She wouldn't make her first born daughter his heir against her second child if he was a boy.

That's why I don't like the show. These elements aren't present in the books. It's not even personal interpretation, it's an statement of the writers using the show. The difference between HotD and other media is that HotD isn't as messed up.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Hell, one thing I've always found puzzling was how Robb Stark managed to give Tywin such a hard time militarily. Given Tywin's reputation, you'd think he was comparable to Richard the Lionheart, Cao Cao, or Alexander the Great, yet he spends a good chunk of his time in the books getting turkey-slapped by a Northern boy less than half his age, a fucking teenager. Sure, the Stark boy has veteran commanders with him, but is Tywin not a veteran as well? A veteran of wars against the Reynes and the Gold Company who were also experienced warriors? Tywin should've been more than well-equipped to handle Robb Stark.

Tywin had more men than Robb, his men were more well-equipped, and he had more than enough cash to hire entire companies of foreign sell-swords to join their ranks. The fact that the war between him and Robb didn't end quickly with Robb's head on a pike is baffling. It would've made more sense if Ned escaped to the North and led their armies against Tywin, and their armies were of equal size. Then at least a stalemate between them would've made sense; with Stannis relying on Ned to stall Tywin while he took the capital.

That's why I don't like the show. These elements aren't present in the books. It's not even personal interpretation, it's an statement of the writers using the show. The difference between HotD and other media is that HotD isn't as messed up.

Both the books and the show were meant to protest against male primogeniture being a thing in medieval times, but the book wasn't thorough enough about it, so GRRM and the show-writers added in more things like Aegon II being a degenerate piece of shit to further drive home that Rhaenyra had the legal right of way. Especially with how they changed Vaemond's death to make it more sympathetic to the Black faction, with Vaemond rejecting a perfectly good deal just to press his claim and getting decapitated for it. In the books, Rhaenyra cruelly executed him. In the show, he idiotically pressed his claim against the Strong children who were going to marry other Velaryons anyways.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Hell, one thing I've always found puzzling was how Robb Stark managed to give Tywin such a hard time militarily. Given Tywin's reputation, you'd think he was comparable to Richard the Lionheart, Cao Cao, or Alexander the Great, yet he spends a good chunk of his time in the books getting turkey-slapped by a Northern boy less than half his age, a fucking teenager. Sure, the Stark boy has veteran commanders with him, but is Tywin not a veteran as well? A veteran of wars against the Reynes and the Gold Company who were also experienced warriors? Tywin should've been more than well-equipped to handle Robb Stark.

Tywin had more men than Robb, his men were more well-equipped, and he had more than enough cash to hire entire companies of foreign sell-swords to join their ranks. The fact that the war between him and Robb didn't end quickly with Robb's head on a pike is baffling. It would've made more sense if Ned escaped to the North and led their armies against Tywin, and their armies were of equal size. Then at least a stalemate between them would've made sense; with Stannis relying on Ned to stall Tywin while he took the capital.

I always saw Tywin as an expert statesman rather than a military leader. Jaime was more of the military leader and he was taken prisoner fairly early. It also helps that the northmen were probably more capable (due to harsher living environment) and had better moral (due to actual grievances rather than a pointless war due to your retarded princeling). Plus there's always the handy "people underestimated Robb due to his age".

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I always saw Tywin as an expert statesman rather than a military leader. Jaime was more of the military leader and he was taken prisoner fairly early. It also helps that the northmen were probably more capable (due to harsher living environment) and had better moral (due to actual grievances rather than a pointless war due to your retarded princeling). Plus there's always the handy "people underestimated Robb due to his age".

Jaime was more a grunt/sentry than a military leader. Dude spent the last war cooped up in the Red Keep with the Mad King until Tywin sacked the city. Tywin has led men to war and fought wars before. And as Robb said, ''we need our men more than Tywin needs his!'' Every man Robb loses is more of a drain on his cause than Tywin's. Also, living in a harsher environment doesn't help when most of the action was in the South, not the North. Not to mention that the moment Robb captured Jaime, Tywin did stop underestimating him. Yet he still kept losing up until the Red Wedding, which just showed to the world that the Lannisters are weak and need traitors from the other side to get anything done. Who the hell will fear them after that?

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Tywin has led men to war and fought wars before.

Has he?

Like, I know he kind of just utterly destroyed the few houses that rebelled when he called in their debt, but other than that he specifically stayed out of Roberts Rebellion, and his one action in it was basically just fucking over someone that thought he was an ally.

Like I said, been a long time since I cared so what am I forgetting?