General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[Exterminatus]

I can honestly see now why Leaflit doesn't collab much or interact with the larger vtuber community, even before she became political. It's a hellscape full of high school level drama and cliques.

Like Jim said, if you make online content, you don't have friends.

It's kind of sad but expected, especially when you spend enough time lurking around all the cows the farms already keeps tabs on. Bunch of them were 'betrayed' by people they met online to varying degrees or betrayed others.

Having read through what's been going on and Nanoless' Google Doc, as well as those insisting we wait for Synder to give a "proper" response, I will say this; if she tries to downplay or distance herself further from what's going on, she's effectively finished, even with her current simps.

On top of that, those that think she had no idea what her bf/manager RED was doing, keep in mind that in the VTubing space, managers are brought on, not only to help setup and maintain streams and schedules, they also speak, act and conduct business on your behalf. If they don't, then what's the point of having a manager.

Basically, if she's going to try to claim ignorance on what RED was doing, it looks worse for her since it would mean she isn't doing her due diligence and checking in on what said manager is up to.

The alternative isn't any better since, in that sense, she knew what was going on with what RED was doing and either let it happen or directed him on what to say and to who.

If this situation feels even the slightest bit familiar to y'all, I will remind you that this has SHADES of what Bunny Ayumi and Bahroo did to Layna. Basically, assholes backstabbing their way to the top.

Funny you mention Layna, she did post a comment under Nano's google doc and alluded to the drama she went through with Bunny and Bahroo, sounds like the situation was too similar for her to pass up on

https://archive.ph/9w3AQ

 

[Mussolini’s Merkin]

Ignore indie drama, the fox and the rabbit are doing an offcolab.

 

[Burnt Fish]

Also Mumei Totsu beginning in 10 minutes

 

[No-Eyed Square Guy]

Cover has serious management issues they have NOT fixed and don't really seem all that eager to fix either. If you have a good manager or live in Japan everything is great. If you don't, it's really bad.

Some people even here "oshi the company" instead of the girls who do the work, so the hundred times she's been cripplingly depressed about not being able to get anything done (just like Fauna and Gura) don't count.
Mumei coughs, Gura has imposter syndrome, and Fauna doesn't want to sing. The end.
That the company has thrown away three of the top four EN talents totally unnecessarily, due to some kind of office-politics shit can't be true. Cover has a ticker symbol, so it's righteous.

 

[Freezing Blue Gnu]

Also Mumei Tatsu beginning in 10 minutes

40 minutes now - she pushed it back half an hour,.

 

[Forte]

She said people acting like she was on deaths door or dying bothered her, not that people are citing it as a reason she's leaving (she herself listed it as one in her own announcement, be pretty silly to say it herself and then turn around and be unhappy people took her word for it)

The other stuff yeah, logistical issues with staff is something we've heard a good bit of over the years, a holdup on sending her her mail falls pretty well in line with other shit like that that's happend (Altaire's home 3d equipment) and her 1m Wish got delayed at which point she gave up on it because she said she had already decided on her graduation when they even told her about the delay saying basically "well I'm graduating so nevermind anyway" (keep in mind she only hit 1m in january of last year, and Bae's talked about Mumei knowing she was graduating for a very long time, this doesn't leave a very big window for when this model was supposed to be done, to when she decided to graduate meaning whatever delay that was couldn't have been that long off)

Definitely problems, but also definitely not nearly as dramatic as you tend to make them sound (the sky is falling, they're fixing nothing, if only you knew how bad it is!) as you have a track record of in the times you touch on these topics with talents you personally enjoy.

I'm in the process of archiving (or trying to anyway) all of her member's streams so worst case I'll upload the video in question so people can hear it for themselves. Suffice to say while you think I'm over emphasizing how upset she is, I think you are under emphasizing it. She did not sound please at all when talking about anything involving Cover.

On the plus side, she did confirm that she expressed that she did want her nendoroid to still come out and tried to talk to management to make sure it would happen, but given how shit management is these days who the fuck knows if it'll actually happen. At least it would be irrefutable proof of Cover being fuckups if it doesn't.

 

[Can of Bread]

Some people even here "oshi the company" instead of the girls who do the work, so the hundred times she's been cripplingly depressed about not being able to get anything done (just like Fauna and Gura) don't count.
Mumei coughs, Gura has imposter syndrome, and Fauna doesn't want to sing. The end.
That the company has thrown away three of the top four EN talents totally unnecessarily, due to some kind of office-politics shit can't be true. Cover has a ticker symbol, so it's righteous.

To be fair, the graduates have been, or at least have been perceived to be, temperate in their explanations of why they're leaving. Which is to be expected, since going all out shitting on your company for what amounts to internal management issues could harm their opportunities down the road, and, depending on contracts, can get them in legal trouble.

Holding back, though, gives some people the ammunition they need to go full cope and say that Cover is fine and it's just a difference in opinion between the v-tuber in the company. They have to have this cope, because the alternative means that, unless their oshi is someone like Mori, who is being handled exactly how she wants to, there's a good chance your oshi is going to be the next one out. A lot of people also really like the Hololive dynamic, and if Cover is really fucking up behind the scenes, that thing they really love is potentially death spiraling, which is not a fun thought.

It's cope from people who have a desperate need for Cover to be in an okay state. That said, though, it might not be that bad. I'd imagine the reality is that there are some really shitty internal things happening with Cover, but all-in-all, most people are in a fine position. I know from experience that, when working in a company, minor and moderate infractions against you can build up and make you emotional, and after a while you just need to get the fuck out and do something else, even though the actual last straw isn't that bad.

 

[Burnt Fish]

I'm in the process of archiving (or trying to anyway) all of her member's streams

she's said she's making them public though yeah?

Holding back, though, gives some people the ammunition they need to go full cope and say that Cover is fine and it's just a difference in opinion between the v-tuber in the company. They have to have this cope, because the alternative means that, unless their oshi is someone like Mori, who is being handled exactly how she wants to, there's a good chance your oshi is going to be the next one out. A lot of people also really like the Hololive dynamic, and if Cover is really fucking up behind the scenes, that thing they really love is potentially death spiraling, which is not a fun thought.

It's cope from people who have a desperate need for Cover to be in an okay state. That said, though, it might not be that bad. I'd imagine the reality is that there are some really shitty internal things happening with Cover, but all-in-all, most people are in a fine position. I know from experience that, when working in a company, minor and moderate infractions against you can build up and make you emotional, and after a while you just need to get the fuck out and do something else, even though the actual last straw isn't that bad.

to be fair as well though People react this way whenever they're told simply that things aren't as extreme as their personal inerpreatations make them out to be (we have several posters here that do that any time I just dial back what they're claiming even while still acknowledging problems with management)

Mori as well since she is my oshi, and you used her as an example, is not exempt from having problems herself and has had projects of her own cancelled or put on the back burner, cover songs she's fully produced and had MV's prepared for that get cancelled at the last minute because some perms issue fell through etc etc. So knowing that stuff goes on makes it a bit easier to point out that it's a bit silly for people to be like "unless you have a good manager or live in japan the company is crumbling" since Even Mori, happy with her situation, and living in Japan, still encounters her own issues.

"I know from experience that, when working in a company, minor and moderate infractions against you can build up and make you emotional, and after a while you just need to get the fuck out and do something else, even though the actual last straw isn't that bad."

This though I think is a fairly reasonable take and I think better falls in line with the kinds of things we generally hear about than Forte's usual "the sky is falling" shtick. There's absolutely issues but some folks act like if you don't buy into their worst case scenario then it means you're a company bootlicker. In my experience just in general things just rarely tend to be as dramatic as folks tend to want to assume and there are usually a lot more mundane explanations and problems. "Cover is majorly fucking up they're destroying their talent what the fuck are they thinking!?" just sounds a lot more appealing for some folks to bite into than "Japanese Bureaucracy is slow and unresponsive and annoying to deal with, so along with more mundane personal issues like their health they've decided to change jobs"

It's probably not a coincidence that none of the EN graduates in the last year lived in Japan.

the chicken or the egg observation.

Do they stay because they live in Japan, or did they move to Japan because they have no intent of leaving.

 

[Somar]

she's said she's making them public though yeah?

She said some of her members streams will likely go public, but the zatsus where she goes a bit deep into her personal life (including the one from yesterday) are getting nuked as soon as she graduates.

 

[Forte]

Which is why I'm trying to archive them. I may not be fast enough.

EDIT: Mumei seems to be having a hard time starting her last stream. This is very hard on her.

 

[Nonga Tork]

Damn. Gura didn't apply the Oblivion Remaster mod to fix the libshit out. Would have been fantastic as a parting fuck you to the twitterinas.

She was confused about the Body Type 1 vs Body Type 2 thing initially though, so she probably legitimately didn't know about it.

 

[Forte]

It's probably not a coincidence that none of the EN graduates in the last year lived in Japan.

There's a BIG reason for that: Work visas. It is not easy to live in Japan without having a company sponsor your continued existence there. The second you lose your job, you can be kicked out. That's why things like the JET program are so predatory and hard to deal with: You get stuck working at some backwoods shithole elementary school trying to teach kids that regularly try to shove fingers up your butt, and most likely you can barely, or not at all, understand anyone around you. It's why Mori speaks so poorly about her "Scythe Swinging Lessons".

So if you're looking at people who won't be graduating any time soon, it's gonna be Mori(Who probably doesn't have the visa trouble anymore, but does have a big fat UMG contract and is living a version of her dream), Ina(Though she also likely has a visa through the light novel art she does), Bae(Likely trapped in the visa, but also living her dream so probably doesn't want to go anyway), IRyS(Though I think she has citizenship due to her parents), Fuwamoco(Living the dream but also visa trapped), Biboo(Don't know if this is her dream but she's enjoying the fuck out of it, and visa trapped), Raora(She might have had a work visa prior?), and anyone else who decides to move to Japan. It's ironic then, that living in Japan makes you far more likely to have a good manager, or at least the ability to get a good one. It's those not living in Japan that have a lot more trouble, and thus more reason to want out.

 

[close]

cover songs she's fully produced and had MV's prepared for that get cancelled at the last minute because some perms issue fell through

That does seem strange to me, though. Surely starting work BEFORE perms are cleared is just setting yourself up for wasted effort. If I was Calli, I'd just make sure I have a pipeline of requests filled up, whenever one thing gets accepted or rejected, add another thing to the queue. I'd then grope my own tits.

 

[Burnt Fish]

That does seem strange to me, though. Surely starting work BEFORE perms are cleared is just setting yourself up for wasted effort. If I was Calli, I'd just make sure I have a pipeline of requests filled up, whenever one thing gets accepted or rejected, add another thing to the queue. I'd then grope my own tits.

For mori it's her having somewhat limited windows in which to put out covers because of her UM contract (she's said before that if she's in a leadup/promotional period for one of her original releases like an album or EP, UM doesn't want her doing covers since those Covers aren't UM projects and they want those windows of time when they're pushing her hard to be promoting their projects not her side projects.

On top of that she might have a song that she wants to cover because it just came out or is popping off at the time and you want to get that sort of thing out the door ASAP so she'll record it and get it ready so that the moment they give the Okay she's ready to go.

It's just bitten her in the ass before and led to her having wasted effort and money but she just keeps on while accepting that that was the risk she took by putting her eggs in that basket before knowing. But yeah all in all with some easy stuff to point to from mori, or JP members themselves having their own management issues, I don't really get the whole "If you live in Japan you get good managers" angle, as many of them have had the same stumbling blocks as the others. I really think it's looking at the situation backwards and that it's "they're in Japan because they're locked in and certain they want to stay" not that being there gets them some sort of magical managers that make them want to stay. (only strong benefit I'd point to is just having ready and steady access to the studio being there but that's not even a big deal for all talents barring someone like Fauna who disliked travel)

 

[ObeseScreamingBlackMan]

backwoods shithole elementary school trying to teach kids that regularly try to shove fingers up your butt

wow, that's an old reference.

I bet Azrael would've been a funny streamer.

 

[Big moth tiddies]

Having read through what's been going on and Nanoless' Google Doc, as well as those insisting we wait for Synder to give a "proper" response, I will say this; if she tries to downplay or distance herself further from what's going on, she's effectively finished, even with her current simps.

I have a hypothetical question.
What could Sinder possibly say that would absolve her? I'm all about two sides to every story, but unless she has verifiable screenshots showing that literally everything that has been said is wrong, and possibly one of Bao telling her to go kill herself, I don't think there's anything for her to say.

The shots show that she was well aware of what was happening, there's too many verifiable accounts of her constant snaking, it's just... overwhelming to overcome.

I think the only thing she could do is something someone like her is incapable of. Come clean, admit she was insecure and really wanted her career to work, and apologize for being a humongous piece of shit.
Sure, it won't stop her from being the evil one for a long time, but it's at least taking accountability.
Keep in mind though, the person who does this kind of backstabbing? They're not capable of coming clean. They're always scheming, and the throwing of Redacted under the bus immediately shows that.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

What could Sinder possibly say that would absolve her?

I don't think there is anything that can. The best possible outcome for her, besides just leaving the internet and riding off her vtubing money for as long as she can, is probably exposing the rest of that group as massive snakes as well, maybe spinning it as her just protecting herself against equally terrible people. Even if she did that it wouldn't absolve her of anything, but it would redirect and reframe the situation enough that it might let her come back just as strong.

 

[deerbeer]

She can always lie/gaslight and hope her simps believe her, that's what I think will happen.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

I have a hypothetical question.
What could Sinder possibly say that would absolve her? I'm all about two sides to every story, but unless she has verifiable screenshots showing that literally everything that has been said is wrong, and possibly one of Bao telling her to go kill herself, I don't think there's anything for her to say.

The shots show that she was well aware of what was happening, there's too many verifiable accounts of her constant snaking, it's just... overwhelming to overcome.

I think the only thing she could do is something someone like her is incapable of. Come clean, admit she was insecure and really wanted her career to work, and apologize for being a humongous piece of shit.
Sure, it won't stop her from being the evil one for a long time, but it's at least taking accountability.
Keep in mind though, the person who does this kind of backstabbing? They're not capable of coming clean. They're always scheming, and the throwing of Redacted under the bus immediately shows that.

nothing could really absolve her or discredit the current narrative that she is a snaking retard, but the only real option is a MAD situation where she exposes or somehow obtains relevant dirty laundry on everyone else. I have a feeling it was a mistake for people to expose her manager BF, the BF manager has been a meme among indies for literal years and more often than not its true, it has now been proven true for a big streamer, there is nothing stopping anyone from pulling the same exposure

 

[Burnt Fish]

nothing could really absolve her or discredit the current narrative that she is a snaking retard, but the only real option is a MAD situation where she exposes or somehow obtains relevant dirty laundry on everyone else. I have a feeling it was a mistake for people to expose her manager BF, the BF manager has been a meme among indies for literal years and more often than not its true, it has now been proven true for a big streamer, there is nothing stopping anyone from pulling the same exposure

Likely the reason for the BF exposure is the source of where it's coming from being people that won't have to deal with the consequences of making that rrat real.

It came from Vampeaches, a literal who 3 view streamer (looking at her stream stats right now and her average viewership is 122 ccv) and a male ASMRtist who I don't think is even active any more.