General GunTuber thread

[UVB-76]

Yeah good luck getting any new Russki shit into the US now. There's a reason US companies are making crap AKs, it's because we can't buy good surplus AKs anymore. They should be thanking God someone is at least making a good replacement for Russian product.

Not to mention that when you're out searching for tubes and rockets, you have to check if they're all compatible because there could be slight differences between production dates and country of origin. The tales about RPG-7 warheads blowing up when someone trips could probably be due to clones built in sand nations that omitted the inertial safety so you have to always mind the source of what you're getting. Even if you managed to get it all on US shores without any laws prohibiting you from importing them and selling them to the government, the DoD would still laugh in your face and tell you that none of that slavshit obeys any MIL-STD.

 

[ILikeForwardAssists]

Yeah good luck getting any new Russki shit into the US now. There's a reason US companies are making crap AKs, it's because we can't buy good surplus AKs anymore. They should be thanking God someone is at least making a good replacement for Russian product.

I forgot to ask this on my diatribe, but what is the hate for on PSA ARs and PSAKs to begin with? I just see @White Devil wig the fuck out anytime someones mentions those supposedly accursed letters.

From my experience they're not that bad. I will admit, me and my father built our PSA AR-15 lower from the parts kit they sold, and bought the upper from them. So we did not buy a complete rifle, but around almost 10 years later, that rifle runs just fine after the 1000s of rounds we passed through it.
So is it an issue of just factory workers being niggers? and not building the complete guns right?

If it is an issue, does this issue extend to the PSAK as well? From what I can tell from complaints here are that the main issue is the front trunnion sucks dick and fitment is shit. Fair enough, as my experience is limited with PSAKs with only a few mags shot out of one a friend lended to me to try. The only two AKs I own are a WASR-10 and Pre-Obama import ban AMD-65.

 

[Smoke Manmuscle]

Not to mention that when you're out searching for tubes and rockets, you have to check if they're all compatible because there could be slight differences between production dates and country of origin. The tales about RPG-7 warheads blowing up when someone trips could probably be due to clones built in sand nations that omitted the inertial safety so you have to always mind the source of what you're getting. Even if you managed to get it all on US shores without any laws prohibiting you from importing them and selling them to the government, the DoD would still laugh in your face and tell you that none of that slavshit obeys any MIL-STD.

The big selling point for the PSRL is that it has modern optics and is compatible with all existing RPG-7 ammunition. The secret squirrel guys are wanting it because of that. the eastern bloc countries are interested as it is a cheap way to update their squad level anti tank and not have to surplus out existing stocks of rockets.

 

[HelpingNoone]

Even though I had fun at lower tiers I got so pissed off I just switched to DCS.

Funny, I took a year hiatus and just got back into the A10C II this week. Head mounted HUD makes the A10 even more of a beast. Upgraded my slew sensor on my HOTAS for one of these and i wish I would have done it sooner.

 

[wopirish]

I forgot to ask this on my diatribe, but what is the hate for on PSA ARs and PSAKs to begin with? I just see @White Devil wig the fuck out anytime someones mentions those supposedly accursed letters.

From my experience they're not that bad. I will admit, me and my father built our PSA AR-15 lower from the parts kit they sold, and bought the upper from them. So we did not buy a complete rifle, but around almost 10 years later, that rifle runs just fine after the 1000s of rounds we passed through it.
So is it an issue of just factory workers being niggers? and not building the complete guns right?

If it is an issue, does this issue extend to the PSAK as well? From what I can tell from complaints here are that the main issue is the front trunnion sucks dick and fitment is shit. Fair enough, as my experience is limited with PSAKs with only a few mags shot out of one a friend lended to me to try. The only two AKs I own are a WASR-10 and Pre-Obama import ban AMD-65.

Two real reasons:
1) PSA has QA issues and their customer support is fairly notoriously bad from what I've seen.

2) The way the AK trunnions are made (being cast) create an inevitable fail point within the metal itself. Imagine that you have a car with a known engine problem where the pistons will blow out of the engine block. The manufacturer knows it exists but keeps making it the same way. You could have that engine block survive 100 years or 100 seconds. You never know.
Century arms is also fully guilty of these.

Case in point.

Century Arms AK-74 Blows Up!

For licensing / usage, please contact licensing@viralhog.comNew Century Arms AK-74 blows up in face while shooting it. This was the first time we had fired t...

youtu.be

Herrera did a fairly decent video explaining it.

Why Cast Trunnions SUCK!

You hear all the time to stay away from AK’s with cast trunnions, but why? Forget the bro-science, here’s the real reason why cast trunnions fail, and billet...

youtu.be

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I forgot to ask this on my diatribe, but what is the hate for on PSA ARs and PSAKs to begin with? I just see @White Devil wig the fuck out anytime someones mentions those supposedly accursed letters.

PSA ARs are fine for the price, but with that said they are very much so the Hi-Point of the AR world. They work, mostly, and the warranty cannot be beat, but it's a crapshoot as to whether or not yours is one of the ones that got the proper attention from the quality assurance department or not. Honestly I'd still take a PSA over something like Bear Creek or DPMS but that isn't exactly a compliment.

The AK is an entirely different animal, there are three essential pieces to an AK that must be made to an exacting standard or else the whole rifle becomes a time bomb. Those three pieces are the bolt, bolt carrier, and the front trunnion, and those three pieces are made from (on a properly built AK) forged steel. Forging is a very expensive process compared to casting or milling and requires a different skill set and a slightly different body of knowledge and expertise, furthermore the entire rest of the rifle requires a bit more attention and TLC to get everything just right such as the heat treatment, rivet forming, and parts fitment. These sorts of things just aren't an issue on an AR, or at least not to anywhere near the same degree as they can become on an AK, and they require an experienced machine operator and specialty tools which once again are things that most American manufacturers just don't have. Another odd quirk of the AK compared to the AR is that the AK can be built sloppier while maintaining function, a bad AK can be built to a far lower standard than a bad AR before it starts to cease functioning. This means that you can get away with shoddy workmanship on an AK and still sell a functional rifle onto the market, however that rifle will not remain functional for a very long time and will start to break down and shear parts very quickly, which is what happens with PSAK rifles.

 

[ILikeForwardAssists]

Two real reasons:
1) PSA has QA issues and their customer support is fairly notoriously bad from what I've seen.

2) The way the AK trunnions are made (being cast) create an inevitable fail point within the metal itself. Imagine that you have a car with a known engine problem where the pistons will blow out of the engine block. The manufacturer knows it exists but keeps making it the same way. You could have that engine block survive 100 years or 100 seconds. You never know.
Century arms is also fully guilty of these.

Case in point.

Century Arms AK-74 Blows Up!

For licensing / usage, please contact licensing@viralhog.comNew Century Arms AK-74 blows up in face while shooting it. This was the first time we had fired t...

youtu.be

Herrera did a fairly decent video explaining it.

Why Cast Trunnions SUCK!

You hear all the time to stay away from AK’s with cast trunnions, but why? Forget the bro-science, here’s the real reason why cast trunnions fail, and billet...

youtu.be

I was already aware of front trunnions being basically the heart and soul of a good AK and casting in general for applications that are under high loads is a bad time, but the fact that PSA trunnions are cast is completely new to me. Thanks for telling me.

On the subject of their customer service, my experience has been fine. But they have been bitches to my friend who visited their location.

 

[ellroy]

Edit: Video explaining the FA as well as a link to the test document directly below

That was a really good video. I sent it to my buddy who is anti-FA. Of course his reaction was "you will not convince me."

My favorite part was him showing Karl being a sperg to own the haters. Classic.

 

[UVB-76]

The big selling point for the PSRL is that it has modern optics and is compatible with all existing RPG-7 ammunition. The secret squirrel guys are wanting it because of that. the eastern bloc countries are interested as it is a cheap way to update their squad level anti tank and not have to surplus out existing stocks of rockets.

Yeah Ukraine started buying in 2017.

Upgraded my slew sensor on my HOTAS for one of these and i wish I would have done it sooner.

I'm actually considering just making my own HOTAS through arduino micro or leo bodnar boards, because it's the perfect justification to get a 3d printer. It'll pay for itself in one project considering how pricy they are.

I was already aware of front trunnions being basically the heart and soul of a good AK and casting in general for applications that are under high loads is a bad time, but the fact that PSA trunnions are cast is completely new to me. Thanks for telling me.

GF3 and onwards are forged. Their Gen 1 was cast, Gen 2 was machined from raw stock, Gen 3 onwards they use forgings. If I'm not mistaken, they were actually the ones who started doing forged front trunnions on domestic AKs after all the drama with cast trunnions, and Kalashnikov USA was the second. I might be wrong because I haven't kept up with the AK world.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Edit: Video explaining the FA as well as a link to the test document directly below

You know, this paired with the weight comparison(posted here) really does dismantle the "WWSD" concept to me. You don't save weight, you have to compensate transporting with the A1 stock length/your loose takedown pins, you limit your parts compatibility, you remove function for remedial action - and with the point about the forward assist being accused of being potentially destructive, not that I wish it upon anyone, I also wonder what would happen to the KP lower during a catastrophic failure.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

and with the point about the forward assist being accused of being potentially destructive,

I'll be completely honest in saying that I think it would probably take an incredibly strong person to hold that rifle against the barricade hard enough to prevent the FA popping it forward a bit, especially if you weren't aware that you were doing it. That's my biggest reason for disbelieving that story.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I'll be completely honest in saying that I think it would probably take an incredibly strong person to hold that rifle against the barricade hard enough to prevent the FA popping it forward a bit, especially if you weren't aware that you were doing it. That's my biggest reason for disbelieving that story.

The amount of confirmation bias needed to accept that sort of claim is astounding. Sure, you can hunker down and accidentally press in on the FA while taking a shot, but to resist the pressure that instead pops open your gun? That is gargantuan strength even with parts wear considered.
Even though MAC is a massive gay, he did do a test on it that I found admirable even at the time.

ETA: there's testimony in the pinned comment that the FA breaks in such an event done by hand, so there's some seriously questionable shit about grenading a rifle with the push of a button.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

The amount of confirmation bias needed to accept that sort of claim is astounding. Sure, you can hunker down and accidentally press in on the FA while taking a shot, but to resist the pressure that instead pops open your gun? That is gargantuan strength even with parts wear considered.
Even though MAC is a massive gay, he did do a test on it that I found admirable even at the time.

ETA: there's testimony in the pinned comment that the FA breaks in such an event done by hand, so there's some seriously questionable shit about grenading a rifle with the push of a button.

I never liked MAC's stuff and so I was unaware that someone had actually done a test on this. Thanks for posting it since it saves me doing it to my beater rifle.

 

[ellroy]

The amount of confirmation bias needed to accept that sort of claim is astounding. Sure, you can hunker down and accidentally press in on the FA while taking a shot, but to resist the pressure that instead pops open your gun? That is gargantuan strength even with parts wear considered.
Even though MAC is a massive gay, he did do a test on it that I found admirable even at the time.

ETA: there's testimony in the pinned comment that the FA breaks in such an event done by hand, so there's some seriously questionable shit about grenading a rifle with the push of a button.

I think the more amazing thing is Ian taking that claim at face value when he was doing that video with Karl a while back. For a guy trying to make himself into a firearms historian, taking in hearsay without being skeptical and looking into yourself is pretty damning.

I’m glad I never bought Ian’s books given his penchant for cognitive dissonance.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I think the more amazing thing is Ian taking that claim at face value when he was doing that video with Karl a while back. For a guy trying to make himself into a firearms historian, taking in hearsay without being skeptical and looking into yourself is pretty damning.

Well there's even the argument about Stoner being forced to add a forward assist when his only input was suggesting a physical charging handle, and so much more.
Pointing to the Air Force for adopting it and refusing the forward assist when the other branches wanted it, not knowing the Air Force also wanted their ammunition yesterday resulting in shit performance in the hands of grunts tomorrow(and blaming it on "bean counters"), misattributing this and that to they and whomever all while marketing a product that represents those claims like a late-night infomercial stating matter-of-factly that, yes, you are washing your cat wrong and here's just the thing to solve that.

 

[ILikeForwardAssists]

Considering the first linked got bungled with, I'm gonna go on a bet that something might be changed again. So I'm dumping the PDF test here. I've tried to get the Ichord hearings downloaded, bu no fucking way am I going to do 1 page at a time, and I'm mobile fagging currently.

Just having this here for posterity sake. This is the testing done to show the Forward assist actually works.

I want to have a custom AR built with Forward Assists on both sides of the rifle.

 

[HelpingNoone]

You know, this paired with the weight comparison(posted here) really does dismantle the "WWSD" concept to me.

I wonder how well received a non polymer 6 lb WWSD build with pencil barrel, CF handguard, and FA would go over on the inRange subreddit?

 

[ILikeForwardAssists]

I wonder how well received a non polymer 6 lb WWSD build with pencil barrel, CF handguard, and FA would go over on the inRange subreddit?

The hivemind would do whatever to stop you ruining their operator speed 2-gun dream. They have the knowledge, they have the skills. They will find you...
But mom needs to drop them off first.

Legit, I wouldn't be so adverse to the idea of a Polymer lower if the whole "Wuh-ate Reduction" shtick was dropped and the lowers be seen as a cheaper alternative to aluminum receiver, thing is... The plastic stripped lowers are even MORE expensive than an entry-tier aluminum lower, even with the added cost of buying a stock and pistol grip.

Also, who was the one who ordained the rifle to have carbonfiber handguards, a pencil barrel and whatnot? Karl? Ian?

 

[Shaka Brah]

The hivemind would do whatever to stop you ruining their operator speed 2-gun dream. They have the knowledge, they have the skills. They will find you...
But mom needs to drop them off first.

Legit, I wouldn't be so adverse to the idea of a Polymer lower if the whole "Wuh-ate Reduction" shtick was dropped and the lowers be seen as a cheaper alternative to aluminum receiver, thing is... The plastic stripped lowers are even MORE expensive than an entry-tier aluminum lower, even with the added cost of buying a stock and pistol grip.

Also, who was the one who ordained the rifle to have carbonfiber handguards, a pencil barrel and whatnot? Karl? Ian?

I'm pretty sure the full loadout comes from the 2-gun zeitgeist. Racegun weight saving strategies are codified into whatever the operator version of fuddlore is called.

 

[The Man With No Name]

I forgot to ask this on my diatribe, but what is the hate for on PSA ARs and PSAKs to begin with? I just see @White Devil wig the fuck out anytime someones mentions those supposedly accursed letters.

From my experience they're not that bad. I will admit, me and my father built our PSA AR-15 lower from the parts kit they sold, and bought the upper from them. So we did not buy a complete rifle, but around almost 10 years later, that rifle runs just fine after the 1000s of rounds we passed through it.
So is it an issue of just factory workers being niggers? and not building the complete guns right?

If it is an issue, does this issue extend to the PSAK as well? From what I can tell from complaints here are that the main issue is the front trunnion sucks dick and fitment is shit. Fair enough, as my experience is limited with PSAKs with only a few mags shot out of one a friend lended to me to try. The only two AKs I own are a WASR-10 and Pre-Obama import ban AMD-65.

Can't speak to the AK bit because I'm not interested in them, but I love PSA's ARs, especially pre-2020. You could get a fully functional rifle, or the parts for one, for less than $400, and splurge a little more for extras if you really wanted. Put it together, beat the shit out of it. It's a great gun to learn shit on, and you won't be worried that you're going to break anything expensive. Hang a bunch of bullshit off it to test any attachment you want.

Then get Aero parts or Daniel Defense when you have more money and know what you're doing. You'll still have the PSA to teach people on. Great investment.