General GunTuber thread

[WhoBusTank69]

operator version of fuddlore

I was thinking about that during this whole debacle. There's just no term for it yet, but that's a damn close descriptor for spreading myths about the forward assist.

 

[Still Anonymous For This]

Can't speak to the AK bit because I'm not interested in them, but I love PSA's ARs, especially pre-2020. You could get a fully functional rifle, or the parts for one, for less than $400, and splurge a little more for extras if you really wanted. Put it together, beat the shit out of it. It's a great gun to learn shit on, and you won't be worried that you're going to break anything expensive. Hang a bunch of bullshit off it to test any attachment you want.

Then get Aero parts or Daniel Defense when you have more money and know what you're doing. You'll still have the PSA to teach people on. Great investment.

An overwhelming majority of people aren't going to be putting enough rounds through their ARs or taking them in such poor environments to need the autistic levels of quality you're going to get out of buying a Daniel Defense or '____ high-end brand' AR15. Most people are going to go out to the range every few months or so, dump a few hundred rounds, and then go back home. The rifle will then live in their closet or gun safe. Same thing with optics. Unless this is a duty weapon that's getting banged around all the time, a Holosun will likely be just fine for you. You really don't need an Aimpoint or Trijicon.

Buy whatever you want, but it reminds me of bootheads who go out and spend $500+ on a pair of boots from Nicks or wherever, get it custom-made to their foot, and then proceed to only wear them to Wal-Mart and their office job.

 

[Mr. Confederate Man]

The amount of confirmation bias needed to accept that sort of claim is astounding. Sure, you can hunker down and accidentally press in on the FA while taking a shot, but to resist the pressure that instead pops open your gun? That is gargantuan strength even with parts wear considered.
Even though MAC is a massive gay, he did do a test on it that I found admirable even at the time.

ETA: there's testimony in the pinned comment that the FA breaks in such an event done by hand, so there's some seriously questionable shit about grenading a rifle with the push of a button.

"The forward assist sucks because it won't let me chamber a spent cartridge case and jam the gun up"
Amazing MAC. Such wow, much tactical

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Well there's even the argument about Stoner being forced to add a forward assist when his only input was suggesting a physical charging handle, and so much more.
Pointing to the Air Force for adopting it and refusing the forward assist when the other branches wanted it, not knowing the Air Force also wanted their ammunition yesterday resulting in shit performance in the hands of grunts tomorrow(and blaming it on "bean counters"), misattributing this and that to they and whomever all while marketing a product that represents those claims like a late-night infomercial stating matter-of-factly that, yes, you are washing your cat wrong and here's just the thing to solve that.

I really, REALLY, hate to invoke Godwin's Law here, but a lot of the rhetoric surrounding the early M16 and the forward assist honestly reminds me of wehraboos quoting German generals and scientist's post war biographies.

"I invented the Blitzkrieg! I was an amazing battlefield commander who always conducted myself with grace and dignity and I followed my orders! My men loved me and I was a consistent tactical genius! The only reason the Russians beat me was because they'd throw so many bodies at us we'd run out of bullets! Surely it isn't MY fault we lost, it's all because of HITLER!" -Heinz Guderian (paraphrased)

 

[Quantrell Bishop]

I don't think the video by MAC (he does jokingly call it redneck science) or the TECOM test entirely settles it. The TECOM people used some type of tape and a "spring-loaded battery connecting clip". Four times with the tape, one time with the clip. Or maybe four times with the tape, one of them paired with the clip? They interchangeably used the words trial and occasion. There's a lot of variables missing like the barrier itself, condition of the weapon, forces imparted by the user, etc. I think Karl got the story from P&S ModCast 100 - Gun Nerds 5: AR15 Theory

Go to 12:25:

WWSD: Aero Upper

Myth Testing: Will holding the forward assist on an AR15 blow it up?

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

You know what might be useful is knowing the actual force that pushes against the bcg on cycling since that would tell you how much force you would have to resist to manually hold the bolt closed with the forward assist.

 

[Trig.Point]

This guy claims that Ian McCollum copyright struck him, for his response to his and Vickers Rhodesian FAL videos.

 

[Molly White's Breast Milk]

Ian probably didn't like being equated with the alt-right by some faggy breadtuber wannabe.

 

[Archie_Kimkicker]

Ian probably didn't like being equated with the alt-right by some faggy breadtuber wannabe.

I can sympathize, but running to youtube's copy strike system is playing with all kinds of fire.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

Any actual proof or is it just this commie's word for it?

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Any actual proof or is it just this commie's word for it?

Saying and not showing really just looks like he's trying to kick a hornet's nest for his 15 minutes of fame.

 

[ILikeForwardAssists]

I don't think the video by MAC (he does jokingly call it redneck science) or the TECOM test entirely settles it. The TECOM people used some type of tape and a "spring-loaded battery connecting clip". Four times with the tape, one time with the clip. Or maybe four times with the tape, one of them paired with the clip? They interchangeably used the words trial and occasion. There's a lot of variables missing like the barrier itself, condition of the weapon, forces imparted by the user, etc. I think Karl got the story from P&S ModCast 100 - Gun Nerds 5: AR15 Theory

Go to 12:25:
View attachment 2842181

WWSD: Aero Upper
View attachment 2842163

Myth Testing: Will holding the forward assist on an AR15 blow it up?
View attachment 2842242

View attachment 2842255

What the "spring-loaded battery connecting clip" is is basically a heavy duty jumper cable. For the cloth tape, we're shown what type it is: PPP-T-60 Type 3. Which by all accounts, is expensive as shit as this is essentially mil-spec tape and no fucking way am I spending 220+ dollars for a roll.
It's showing that under extreme force, more than a human would realistically be able to pull, even under extreme circumstances, the rifle would be fine and the forward assist would simply act like a piston and push against the opposing force pushing the gun away.

Mixed with MAC adding essentially a block to stop the BCG, it still moved, even if slightly, showing just how much punch the bolt has moving back. And even when blocked, the bolt still turned out fine.

TL;DR: They applied more force than a human could realistically pull and showed that the FA would just piston back and push the gun away.

Saying and not showing really just looks like he's trying to kick a hornet's nest for his 15 minutes of fame.

Look at the rest of his videos. Something about femboys, him calling Kyle a murderer with no understanding of self-defense (typical bong)
It's a story that writes itself. He's a ticking time bomb where he'll pull the whole children-can-consent shtick. Just you watch.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I think Karl got the story from P&S ModCast 100 - Gun Nerds 5: AR15 Theory

Well that looks even worse for Karl since the story was entirely hypothetical without even a hinting at grenading the receiver as was proposed in his video. Chuck said he could definitely understand a grunt bracing their rifle with the forward assist against a surface. Even Jordan says just the forward assist would break, as people have seen happen.

 

[DocAwe]

This guy claims that Ian McCollum copyright struck him, for his response to his and Vickers Rhodesian FAL videos.

The FAL is an inanimate object.
It's not capable of "racism".
More importantly, having what amounts to a poster of yourself, holding the cringe as fuck Guy Fawkes mask no less, screams narcissistic faggot to me.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

TL;DR: They applied more force than a human could realistically pull and showed that the FA would just piston back and push the gun away.

Literally every over pressure AR explosion I've ever heard of was caused by a barrel obstruction anyways. Even if you put a piece of steel round stock into the buffer tube to completely prevent even the tiniest amount of BCG movement I don't think it would really make a difference since a barrel is proofed for that kind of pressure anyways due to engineering safety standards. So even if someone were strong enough to hold the bolt closed it wouldn't make a difference, maybe it breaks the tip of the forward assist claw or one of the ratchet teeth but I doubt it would be able to. Now you wouldn't want to do it consistently and if the barrel or the BCG were already compromised due to previous damage maybe it works but the chances of all the stars aligning in such a way to cause that are so astronomically slim that only the most tacticool of the tacticool would factor it into their "prepare for absolutely everything ever" mindset.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

I'll admit I'm not gonna watch this a nearly half hour long video of some commie bong whining about a rifle and a no longer existing country but I will look at his channel.

And we have:
Being salty about Jon Tron
Being salty about Chris Pratt
Being salty about no nut november
Being salty about Liberty Prime
Being salty about Alex jones
Being salty about the salt bae meme
Still being salty about Jon Tron
Still fucking salty about gamergate in 2021

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I'll admit I'm not gonna watch this a nearly half hour long video of some commie bong whining about a rifle and a no longer existing country but I will look at his channel.

And we have:
Being salty about Jon Tron
Being salty about Chris Pratt
Being salty about no nut november
Being salty about Liberty Prime
Being salty about Alex jones
Being salty about the salt bae meme
Still being salty about Jon Tron
Still fucking salty about gamergate in 2021

 

[ILikeForwardAssists]

I think the more amazing thing is Ian taking that claim at face value when he was doing that video with Karl a while back. For a guy trying to make himself into a firearms historian, taking in hearsay without being skeptical and looking into yourself is pretty damning.

I’m glad I never bought Ian’s books given his penchant for cognitive dissonance.

I wanted to reply but the thought escaped my mind.

You can take a lot of what Ian says scholarly as fact, especially when it comes to his books as I am 90 percent sure some of them come from knowledge he's garnered from other people, particularly people who are less likely to be strictly biased like Karl.
At the same time, he can be wrong. Particularly in the case of the Forward assist. Though I do have to say I'm surprised he's not aware of the TECCOM trials.

The fault lies where I believe he is absolutely fucking stupid in terms of how things work "field wise." His video on drum mag reliability spouting about how they're atrocious when there have been great strides technologically to make them run better, and more consistently, to the point the Marines are testing them with the M27 IAR.

And if I remember CORRECTLY, they (As in Karl and Ian) even perpetrated the myth that you couldn't fire a lever-action while prone when there are a plethora of videos proving otherwise

 

[WhoBusTank69]

And if I remember CORRECTLY, they (As in Karl and Ian) even perpetrated the myth that you couldn't fire a lever-action while prone when there are a plethora of videos proving otherwise

The difference in height required for an M16A# with 30 round magazine is relatively comparable to the distance needed to cycle a lever; even then, that being the reason for a lack of military adoption is silly as there were more sensible reasons, be it ammunition logistics(soldiers on the frontier barely had ammunition for their Springfields) or questionable durability - Othais from C&Rsenal stated their 1895(in 7.62x54R no less) had a forward bend in the lever just enough to disrupt function, and I would suspect that would be much more common if more were used.

 

[DocAwe]

The difference in height required for an M16A# with 30 round magazine is relatively comparable to the distance needed to cycle a lever; even then, that being the reason for a lack of military adoption is silly as there were more sensible reasons, be it ammunition logistics(soldiers on the frontier barely had ammunition for their Springfields) or questionable durability - Othais from C&Rsenal stated their 1895(in 7.62x54R no less) had a forward bend in the lever just enough to disrupt function, and I would suspect that would be much more common if more were used.

Agree for the most part.
The "problem" of not being able to cycle a lever gun while prone is nonsense.
If the situation permits, you can simply claw out a space for the lever to travel.
Otherwise simply rolling the gun to its side should yield ample room.
Long term durability, complexity, and parts interchangeably were probably bigger factors.
I think the ammo thing works itself out as the revised supply chain catches up.

As far as the forward assist goes I'm not sure it's necessary.
I doubt your rifle grenades if it were held down when firing but anything is possible.
Most likely, it simply doesn't cycle.
Worst case, the pawl breaks off and finds it's way into the fcg and mucks it up requiring disassembly to fix.
I think there is also the chance you could make things worse mashing on it when something else is the problem. But that's avoidable by looking before you leap.
Other than being unsightly I'm not really paused by it's existence.
I think it's far more likely that the buffer shears off the tip of the retaining pin and jams up the workings.