General GunTuber thread

[Antarctica]

The bill of materials in the complete WWSD rifle is more than $900. If we were to retail them direct at $1300, we’d make ~$100 after paying for the BOM and FET. And a rifle without all these parts and features is not the WWSD as endorsed by InRange.

The rifles were not a profit center. They were the attention getter to sell thousands of lowers, triggers, and other parts.

I'm not trying to argue with you chief. You could sell the fucker for $4,000 and retards would probably still buy it because of the WWSD Marketing.

 

[HumptiDouji]

Seems as time goes on the consensus on the WWSD seems to lean towards more and more towards "It's okay, but not worth it at the price point".

For the rifle, perhaps, but to me the lower seems worth it if you wanna build as light as you can. Ounces make pounds and all. Maybe I'll try something out one day.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Ye Olde Guntuber Nutnfancy did a review of the WWSD
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Mp6ojW1MAh4Results, upper is approved, trigger is great, that fucking slop on the takedown pins is horrifying, lower is meh. Fine but not $1700 fine.

Alright I decided to bite the bullet and actually watch the stupid thing.

Spoiler: WORDSWORDSWORDSWORDS

>so Nutn starts out being retarded by pointing out a patch he has on his jacket and asking if we can see what it says, as he does this the patch is literally being covered up by a bunch of post production text and then after he says the patch says "WWNFD (What Would NutnFancy Do?)
>Jesus fuck I forgot what a faggot this guy sounds like
>Nutn claims that he would typically "make it lighter" when it comes to gear. I do remember that being one of the things I mocked him for ten years ago when I watched him to laugh, but he says this without a hint of irony as he's holding the rifle that he's decked out with a massive heavy looking magnified optic and a superfluous VFG.
>I don't know who this Special Education kid he has with him is but he's retarded.
>Nutn performs a reload, he inserts a loaded mag into the rifle's magazine well on a closed bolt, he then operates the charging handle and a live round comes out of the chamber, Nutn proceeds to stare at this live round for a few fractions of a second as it spins through the air, he is clearly surprised that the chamber was not clear on the rifle he is holding.
>He's talking about how he's "doing the work for his viewers" and being a "consumer advocate" and that he "stands behind all the products he reviews" and as he's saying this I realize that the scope on his rifle is not only a Nikon but also appears to be a 3-9x and still has all the manufacturer stickers still on it. So it's good to see that Nutn is still just as poor as I remember and still doesn't actually use his equipment.
>We have reached the one minute mark
>Seriously who the fuck is this spergy rent boy? He's worse than Nutn somehow.
>I seriously had to skip forward to the five minute mark before the actual review got going, nice to Nutn is still the same long winded faggot he was a decade ago.
>Nutn zeroes his gun from a lead sled, what a faggot.
>I'm at the seven minute mark and they still haven't started actually reviewing the rifle.
>Nutn, Mr "Ounces equals pounds" himself starts talking about how the gun is too light because "the lighter it is the harder it is to shoot" and he "doesn't need a four pound rifle" as if the 5.56 has serious recoil or something. I think Nutn shouldn't be such a noodle armed little faggot and get a better optic but I'm not an elite tier zero sheepdawg.
>"The ammo is too heavy" Nigger what?
>"I wouldn't run it as a competition gun because it's polymer and a competition gun would have thousands and thousands of rounds put through it." Does this dumb nigger watch any of the creator's channels? There's plenty of video footage of the WWSD rifles getting thousands of rounds put through them at competition and doing fine.
>He complains that they're putting an A2 Birdcage on the rifle, "A $1700 rifle should not have a BUDGET muzzle device!" The A2 Birdcage is the gold standard for a reason man, it's light and compact while providing both a solid flash hider and a solid comp that doesn't just kick dust everywhere. Literally nothing wrong with it. But Nutn is serious big boy angry over this because he's a fucking gear queer.
>He's literally complaining that 1.8 inches is too fat for a handguard. Apparently he takes umbrage with this because "that's too fat for a semi auto SPORTIN-GING RIFLE!" and a handguard that thick is only good for full-auto fire.
>The rent boy disagrees and takes the more sensible stance that it isn't too thick and that a thick handguard can give you a more substantial grip
>I don't know why this matters in the first place since they're using a VFG with no C-Clamp anyways and so the thickness of the handguard literally doesn't matter for their grip, and even a manlet such as myself has no issues with wrapping my hands around a 1.8 inch wide foregrip.
>Now he's complaining about how slick the carbon fiber is and saying that you need skateboard tape to fix the lack of grip on the handguard but then says that you wouldn't want to cover the holes for ventilation. He says the VFG is "mandatory".
>Suddenly I remember why I can't even laugh at Nutn anymore.
>He's citing Brownell's reviews as legitimate sources of information. You would have to be even more retarded than the retards that leave those reviews to do this.
>He hates the polymer lower for being polymer, he also apparently never watched or read any of the development logs from KEArms about the manufacturing process of that lower since he once again bitches about the price, and he hates the lack of adjustability.
>Nutn is such a fucking boomer, he's bitching about the polymer buttpad on the KEArms lower but he doesn't seem to realize that milspec buttpads for the M16/AR15 have been polymer for a long time. He's literally just bitching about "muh' plastic!"
>He thinks the oblong sling cutout is an MLOK slot
>He bitches about how the QD swivel mount doesn't come with a QD swivel, as if any other AR with QD mounts does.
>They literally say that the KEArms lower is the same manufacturing and material quality as an original Carbon-15, which is patently untrue.
>He complains that he had a lot of light primer strikes but then admits that they were using steel ammo, which tells me he was using the cheapest ratshit ammo he could buy, because he's Nutn and he hasn't changed at all in over a decade.
>He shows the primers to the camera, they don't look like they've been hit by a light strike, they look like they were shitty stiff primers in shitty steel case.
>"It's an EXPENSIVE RIFLE! IT SHOULD SHOOT! IT!"
>Nutn keeps reminding us what a poor he is.
>This is all at about the 17 minute mark.
>Complains about the non captive pins, in all fairness this is a legitimate complaint but the fact that Nutn says it makes me think that it isn't a problem at all.
>Nutn throughout the entire video just waves shit right in front of the camera without waiting for it to adjust and so the things he wants to demonstrate are always blurry.
>I'm sure he wouldn't have an issue with these pins if he had a G3 in his hands, non captive pins never seem to be an issue on those.
>Of course he likes the captive spring and buffer, that thing's right up his alley.
>He bitches that there's wiggle between the upper and lower, even claims he's "never seen an AR like that" which is first off fucking bullshit and second off not an issue.
>He likes the BCG and the charging handle.
>The one thing they will not stop bringing up is the $1700 price tag, because Nutn is poor and will never not be.
>I'm skipping ahead at this point because the review is basically over anyways.
>They admit that the ammo used was Red Army Standard, no surprise they had ammo failures.
>Admits that when they gave it brass it was 100%, so obviously the issue isn't the rifle, but they insist it is.
>He was getting about 3MOA groups with Red Army Standard and he calls the accuracy "average".
>He's comparing the rifle to a 2A Armament rifle that he has a much better optic on to say that the gun is inaccurate and he blames this inaccuracy on the polymer lower.
>Personally I think he's just a shit shot.
>I can't bring myself to watch the rest.

To give you a bit of a TL;DR: Nutnfancy is the same retarded and poor niggerfaggot that he was ten years ago and he continues to slave under the delusion that the end of days scenario he envisions which is so bad that basic amenities, spare parts, and quality ammo will be impossible to find will also leave behind enough infrastructure to allow him to operate a gun and a vehicle at all for long enough for any of those things to actually matter. He's totally hung up on the polymer without understanding that the lower is not the issue. He's totally ignorant of InRange, FW, and Sinistral and all the DevLogs that went into this rifle. And he's a ratchet ass poor who bitches that a gun which costs less than $2000 is expensive because he lives in poverty.

Seriously hats off to you @SinistralRifleman I would not have the patience to run your business when retards like Nutn are running around, I don't know how you resist the urge to breaks their heads in with a rock.

Edited just to fix some spelling and add on a thought I had reading everything back to myself; I hate Hop for the same reason I hate Nutn. They're both incredible gear fags to the point where they get so focused on the gimmick that they end up missing the forest for the trees. They focus down so hard on one single little nitpick or they get so hyper focused on "THIS ISN'T THE ABSOLUTE BEST THING EVER AND THEREFORE IT IS TOTAL SHIT" that they miss the actual qualities behind what they're reviewing or talking about.

 

[HumptiDouji]

Thanks, that saved me an hour of my life.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I end up posting this same comment on every one of these 3rd party reviews with people mad about the price.

They aren't mad, they're skeptical and have lived in a world inhabited by PSA and Anderson*, not to mention endless amounts of nuanced builds to the point where buying a premade rifle is, socially and economically, seen as lazy and stupid even if you're using everything from the same brand anyway. Waving sales numbers around is also seen as dumb gloating as you cannot deduct unsatisfied customers from that total - they paid an entry fee, nobody knows if they endorse it.
I don't dislike you but, like Karl, you seem a tad out of touch with how the consumer perceives things.

*EDIT - Not endorsing PSA and Anderson since they're shit, but people buy them and promote them because they don't actually use them.

He's totally ignorant of InRange, FW, and Sinistral and all the DevLogs that went into this rifle.

To be fair, the majority of people buying rifles do not research them - nobody reads the manual, nobody should be expected to look up the philosophy of design in regards to a mass-produced racegun. People who knew of it balked at the price and built their own for cheaper because they can live without a cassette trigger and likely have spare BCGs lying around.
Also the guy beside him is his son, surprised you didn't notice the similarities.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Also the guy beside him is his son, surprised you didn't notice the similarities.

I did but not in time to care. I'm disappointed, but not surprised, to see that he took that one incident with the Garand and made it the roadmap for the rest of his life.

To be fair, the majority of people buying rifles do not research them - nobody reads the manual, nobody should be expected to look up the philosophy of design in regards to a mass-produced racegun. People who knew of it balked at the price and built their own for cheaper because they can live without a cassette trigger and likely have spare BCGs lying around.

Sure, for an average consumer that is a totally fair and accurate statement. Nutn is not an average consumer nor does he desire to be one, Nutn desires to be and sells himself as, a market expert and qualified tester/reviewer/buyer's guide of the products he features, he even states as much in his preamble on that very video. Someone in that position not only should have done some basic research into what he was reviewing by reading the manufacturer's notes and advertising especially when it is as freely and transparently available as it is for the WWSD, but someone in his position is in my opinion obligated to do that basic research since making ignorant and blatantly false statements like he was doing is outright unacceptable for someone who wishes to be seen as and who openly advertises themselves as consumer guides. This has always been Nutn's biggest failing, he wants to be the guy who has all the knowledge and can tell you what's hot and what's not, but he's too lazy to put in actual work and too stupid to know how hopeless he is.

A great example of this is in the WWSD review video, he states that he "Couldn't do a full test, you know 1,000 rounds. Like back in the 'old days'" and then cites "I just don't have the money-or the time for that matter-to really do those kinds of tests anymore." There are numerous problems with those statements, 1,000 rounds isn't that expensive especially since he admitted to using Red Army Standard in the test which is the cheapest shittiest ammo known to man, and driving out into the desert to fire off 1,000 rounds is not very much gas (which is another expense he mentioned so I know it's an issue for him) or time. If you get up at 0400 and bust your hump that's a day of filming, especially with how low effort and slapdash a NutnFancy video can get away with being. And that's totally ignoring the biggest problem with his statement which is that 1,000 rounds is not a comprehensive endurance test and is quite frankly not that many rounds period, I've had range days that were 1,000 rounds in the past. Now I get that it was a loaner rifle and he doesn't want to break someone else's shit, but the way it was worded made it sound like this was his gold standard test.

Another good example of Nutn failing to use his brain is the ammo itself. He bitched incessantly about how the WWSD he had lacked reliability, citing "light strikes" which caused multiple failures to fire. However he then stated later on in the video that they "ran three magazines, USGI, Magpul, and Lancer, magazines with brass. And those all ran flawlessly." They admitted that the only time the rifle caused a light strike was on the Red Army Standard (from here on out RAS) ammunition. Now whereas any moderately intelligent person with a working brain would say something to the effect of "Wow this ammo must have been a bad batch" or "Maybe I shouldn't purchase the RAS brand in the future" Nutn immediately turns around and blames the failures on the rifle having "Light strikes". The kicker is that he shows the primers of the rounds that failed to fire, none of them appeared to have any indication of a light strike, all the primers were dented in a manner that a fired round's primer would be expected to be dented, this probably means that they were either totally dud or overly stiff primers, which are both known issues with RAS 5.56. Instead of saying "Don't buy shit ammo, buy and stockpile quality equipment." he has deluded himself into thinking that quality ammo will be so scarce during the end of days that you need to immediately scav shit tier bottom of the barrel ammo and so if your gun can't fire that you're fucked, but he completely misses the subtext of "if ammo is that scarce you've reached the point in the End of Days where guns are going to be largely worthless anyways and you've also gone long past the point of running internal combustion engines anyways".

 

[Corn Flakes]

They aren't mad, they're skeptical and have lived in a world inhabited by PSA and Anderson*, not to mention endless amounts of nuanced builds to the point where buying a premade rifle is, socially and economically, seen as lazy and stupid even if you're using everything from the same brand anyway. Waving sales numbers around is also seen as dumb gloating as you cannot deduct unsatisfied customers from that total - they paid an entry fee, nobody knows if they endorse it.
I don't dislike you but, like Karl, you seem a tad out of touch with how the consumer perceives things.

Yeah, the point isn't that the gun isn't good. But something can be very good and still be (sometimes grossly) overpriced.

It's like with Ian's newest beloved the Laugo Alien: I'm sure it's a very nice gun. But it's not 4 grand nice. So even if the WWSD rifle is a perfectly competent race gun with all its i's dotted and its t's crossed, for a lot of people it's going to be too much because they wouldn't pay that kind of money for any rifle. Different value propositions for different people.

Russ might not care about it because these people aren't his target audience, but they're still fully entitled to their opinion there.

A great example of this is in the WWSD review video, he states that he "Couldn't do a full test, you know 1,000 rounds. Like back in the 'old days'" and then cites "I just don't have the money-or the time for that matter-to really do those kinds of tests anymore." There are numerous problems with those statements, 1,000 rounds isn't that expensive especially since he admitted to using Red Army Standard in the test which is the cheapest shittiest ammo known to man, and driving out into the desert to fire off 1,000 rounds is not very much gas (which is another expense he mentioned so I know it's an issue for him) or time. If you get up at 0400 and bust your hump that's a day of filming, especially with how low effort and slapdash a NutnFancy video can get away with being. And that's totally ignoring the biggest problem with his statement which is that 1,000 rounds is not a comprehensive endurance test and is quite frankly not that many rounds period, I've had range days that were 1,000 rounds in the past. Now I get that it was a loaner rifle and he doesn't want to break someone else's shit, but the way it was worded made it sound like this was his gold standard test.

Meanwhile some autist in Oregon is saying "they want to see a thousand round test? Alright, let's save up some Patreon money".

 

[TerminalTryHard]

I'd love to hear him try to explain the physics of the lower being made of polymer having an impact on accuracy.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I'd love to hear him try to explain the physics of the lower being made of polymer having an impact on accuracy.

I'll give you the short version, there was a bit of wiggle when the upper and lower were assembled (he claims 1/8 inch of slop but it wasn't that much, he also claims he's "Never seen an AR like that" which is total bullshit lots of ARs have a bit of wiggle between the upper and lower) and he claims that due to the material properties of polymer the tolerances would naturally need to be looser and so you'll never get as tight of a lockup between the upper and the lower so long as the lower is polymer.

Which is a good indication that he doesn't understand the material properties of polymer, the polymer manufacturing process, or what the term "tolerances" means in a manufacturing context.

Edited to add: He also bitches that the takedown pins aren't captive and that they have the ball detente in them. He seems to think that they will not stay in place properly when assembled and that them not being captive means they will automatically go to the Single Sock Dimension as soon as the rifle is disassembled. He advocates buying spare pins. I'd be willing to bet that if he had a G3 in front of him he would have no issues with the pins on that but then again who knows.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Nutn is not an average consumer nor does he desire to be one, Nutn desires to be and sells himself as, a market expert and qualified tester/reviewer/buyer's guide of the products he features, he even states as much in his preamble on that very video. Someone in that position not only should have done some basic research into what he was reviewing by reading the manufacturer's notes and advertising especially when it is as freely and transparently available as it is for the WWSD, but someone in his position is in my opinion obligated to do that basic research since making ignorant and blatantly false statements like he was doing is outright unacceptable for someone who wishes to be seen as and who openly advertises themselves as consumer guides. This has always been Nutn's biggest failing, he wants to be the guy who has all the knowledge and can tell you what's hot and what's not, but he's too lazy to put in actual work and too stupid to know how hopeless he is.

If he wasn't horribly wrong in an autistic fashion he wouldn't be the nutnfancy we all know and love, he would be a competent reviewer.
The fact that he actually reviewed it and is causing controversy past his prime is why he is my favorite pre-Gun Tube lolcow.

 

[Full Spectrum]

The bill of materials in the complete WWSD rifle is more than $900. If we were to retail them direct at $1300, we’d make ~$100 after paying for the BOM and FET. And a rifle without all these parts and features is not the WWSD as endorsed by InRange.

The rifles were not a profit center. They were the attention getter to sell thousands of lowers, triggers, and other parts.

Isn't the actual bill of materials more like $700 with the FET bringing it closer to $900?

Edited to add: He also bitches that the takedown pins aren't captive and that they have the ball detente in them. He seems to think that they will not stay in place properly when assembled and that them not being captive means they will automatically go to the Single Sock Dimension as soon as the rifle is disassembled. He advocates buying spare pins. I'd be willing to bet that if he had a G3 in front of him he would have no issues with the pins on that but then again who knows.

To be fair that was a noted deficiency noted by the military on the early M16s (that was able to be corrected) on the front takedown pin, which is now captive.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

To be fair that was a noted deficiency noted by the military on the early M16s (that was able to be corrected) on the front takedown pin, which is now captive.

A non captive pin is probably inferior to a captive one, yes. However I fail to see it as a serious deficiency, and I also see no reason why it would affect accuracy as Nutn asserts it would.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

A non captive pin is probably inferior to a captive one, yes. However I fail to see it as a serious deficiency, and I also see no reason why it would affect accuracy as Nutn asserts it would.

1. Again, it's nutnfancy.
2. It's a long since buried horse exhumed to be beaten based upon old arguments against the upper/lower receiver concept in general with the presumption that two halves meant to be separated cannot be consistent in position when together. Because the barrel is connected to the upper the argument is null and void and anyone who says otherwise is retarded(ie nutnfancy)
3. If you exempt a feature that's the norm and is expected, people will wonder why it isn't there even if it's not important.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

1. Again, it's nutnfancy.
2. It's a long since buried horse exhumed to be beaten based upon old arguments against the upper/lower receiver concept in general with the presumption that two halves meant to be separated cannot be consistent in position when together. Because the barrel is connected to the upper the argument is null and void and anyone who says otherwise is retarded(ie nutnfancy)
3. If you exempt a feature that's the norm and is expected, people will wonder why it isn't there even if it's not important.

Look man, it's been a few years since I've sat down and watched Nutn, I'm entitled to one Nutn related sperg out every few years to exorcise the demons.

 

[Full Spectrum]

A non captive pin is probably inferior to a captive one, yes. However I fail to see it as a serious deficiency, and I also see no reason why it would affect accuracy as Nutn asserts it would.

A lot of super serious AR accuracy shooters will get matched billet sets that do not have any slop to them in order to chase down vibrational node variability along with many other black magic tricks to squeeze every last ounce of accuracy. If you get into reloading you will see your group size wax/wane when going from min to max and beyond max charge weights which is commonly associated with these vibrational nodes. Now how much pin slop comes into play with polymer lowers, super pencil barrels, and whatever factory ammo nutn was using seems questionable to me, though there is some basis for it in extremis but probably well beyond what most people use the WWSD for. He was able to point out how a lighter gun does shoot better with multiple variables. How much of it is pin slop I have no idea.

I've only ever used reloads and chased serious accuracy on my mega arms billet set AR-10 and bolt guns so I can't say for myself how much of a variable it is other than I can get half MOA on my AR-10 with some basic load development and 3/4 MOA with federal gold medal match 175gr 5 round groups. All the glass bedding guys from M14s, bolt guns, etc would suggest that a properly supported action is more accurate than one that isn't and there's plenty of data to suppor that even with free floated bolt gun barrels on bedded actions.

Edit: What timing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrFx9UnGMHE

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

A lot of super serious AR accuracy shooters will get matched billet sets that do not have any slop to them in order to chase down vibrational node variability along with many other black magic tricks to squeeze every last ounce of accuracy. If you get into reloading you will see your group size wax/wane when going from min to max and beyond max charge weights which is commonly associated with these vibrational nodes.

I'm aware. None of which is Nutn's wheelhouse or the point in the video.

 

[Full Spectrum]

I'm aware. None of which is Nutn's wheelhouse or the point in the video.

He talks about it in isolation earlier in the video merely as a fit and finish issue but later again at 30 mins in comparison to the POF Renegade as an accuracy variable.

 

[Puff]

What timing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrFx9UnGMHE

Came back to post this, but then thought to actually check your link on the off chance it was the same video.
Also, have an embed.

 

[SinistralRifleman]

Isn't the actual bill of materials more like $700 with the FET bringing it closer to $900?

IIRC that was costs before rifles actually started shipping en masse with some costs being estimated. Costs went higher than that with actual production.

 

[Puff]

IIRC that was costs before rifles actually started shipping en masse with some costs being estimated. Costs went higher than that with actual production.

If that was from 2020, prices are definitely up now from that too, right?