General GunTuber thread

White Devil said:
"Competition experience" in a war zone. God I would pay money to see this clusterfuck as gamer gunners get absolutely BTFO'd in the real thing.
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I find it incredibly ironic that the guy behind "bolt actions are obsolete" is using evidence from bolt-action target shooters during the turn of the century shooting at columns of troops freezing in knee-deep snow to say 2 or 3-gun shooters would perform well in modern engagements.
Granted, videos of Russian conscripts show it's a clusterfuck but benchshooting and kettlebells don't account for combined arms or shellshock.
 
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WhoBusTank69 said:
I find it incredibly ironic that the guy behind "bolt actions are obsolete" is using evidence from bolt-action target shooters during the turn of the century shooting at columns of troops freezing in knee-deep snow to say 2 or 3-gun shooters would perform well in modern engagements.
Granted, videos of Russian conscripts show it's a clusterfuck but benchshooting and kettlebells don't account for combined arms or shellshock.
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Also situational awareness, terrain tactics, overlapping fire, avoidance of crossfire, cover and advance, etc etc. I share Ian's hope that more euros start thinking about the value of guns in a constructive way, but the rest of that video was cringe.

Also, I had a bit of a stroke when he said a donation link goes "straight to the Ukrainian government, not a middleman".
 
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The Ian "hope Europe will reform gun laws soon because Ukraine" was adorable. How can a man be so out of his depth, I've heard better plans from drunkards.

It's the gunsperg equivalent of saying "why we don't simply adopt the Nordic welfare model everyone it looks so nice". The Finn model "works" because it's Finland, let's see Moldova, Romania or Slovakia on it, the Southern/Eastern Euro countries are corrupted shitholes and giving them guns and training like the Commies did ended in tears, imagine the Romanians having means of opposing their robber government instead of pathetic protests or escaping the country.
 
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White Devil said:
It doesn't and anyone who thinks so is a faggot that deserves what happens when they get return fire.
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It certainly beats talking shit on the internet and shooting at trash in the gravel pit.

The ability to shoot fast and accurately is never a bad thing. And if you can’t handle the stress of the clock in public, and some physical exertion degrades your marksmanship appreciably I don’t know how you’d expect to do well in combat.

If you get mentally defeated and can’t perform because you’re tired and sore on the clock how can you expect to do well in combat. if weather conditions destroy your will to win at an 4-8 hour match, how can you expect to maintain fighting mindset over the course of days, weeks, months? Watching peoples mindset and psychology degrade at matches under a mild amount of stress and perhaps public embarrassment is very enlightening.
 
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SinistralRifleman said:
It certainly beats talking shit on the internet and shooting at trash in the gravel pit.

The ability to shoot fast and accurately is never a bad thing. And if you can’t handle the stress of the clock in public, and some physical exertion degrades your marksmanship appreciably I don’t know how you’d expect to do well in combat.

If you get mentally defeated and can’t perform because you’re tired and sore on the clock how can you expect to do well in combat. if weather conditions destroy your will to win at an 4-8 hour match, how can you expect to maintain fighting mindset over the course of days, weeks, months? Watching peoples mindset and psychology degrade at matches under a mild amount of stress and perhaps public embarrassment is very enlightening.
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Working with others and communicating clearly are far more important in combat than raw accuracy under fire. Doesn't matter whether we are talking about war in Ukraine or fucking Team Fortress 2.

That is not to say there is not value in accuracy under pressure, but fucking up a push/withdrawal because you can't figure out what your battlemates are doing is going to get you killed far quicker than having a 50 MOA grouping at 50 yards.
 
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SinistralRifleman said:
It certainly beats talking shit on the internet and shooting at trash in the gravel pit.

The ability to shoot fast and accurately is never a bad thing. And if you can’t handle the stress of the clock in public, and some physical exertion degrades your marksmanship appreciably I don’t know how you’d expect to do well in combat.

If you get mentally defeated and can’t perform because you’re tired and sore on the clock how can you expect to do well in combat. if weather conditions destroy your will to win at an 4-8 hour match, how can you expect to maintain fighting mindset over the course of days, weeks, months? Watching peoples mindset and psychology degrade at matches under a mild amount of stress and perhaps public embarrassment is very enlightening.
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Give me a guy who can start a fire, tie knots, fish, obtain clean water, crawl for a mile without making noise but doesn't know how to shoot, and I'll train him with the trash in the gravel pit.
 
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SinistralRifleman said:
It certainly beats talking shit on the internet and shooting at trash in the gravel pit.

The ability to shoot fast and accurately is never a bad thing. And if you can’t handle the stress of the clock in public, and some physical exertion degrades your marksmanship appreciably I don’t know how you’d expect to do well in combat.

If you get mentally defeated and can’t perform because you’re tired and sore on the clock how can you expect to do well in combat. if weather conditions destroy your will to win at an 4-8 hour match, how can you expect to maintain fighting mindset over the course of days, weeks, months? Watching peoples mindset and psychology degrade at matches under a mild amount of stress and perhaps public embarrassment is very enlightening.
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You're not even wrong but I'd like to see you guys incorporate real world scenarios like an ambush or IMT's into your training regime. There is also a lack of small unit tactics on display, I know you guys have done various courses but this type of stuff isn't real you can learn in a week or whatever.

I know that you're hamstrung by safety concerns, the practicalities of running a competition and the law but if your goal is soldiering then you're off the mark. It's funny but being a soldier is as much about shitting in a MRE bag next to your mate as it is about shooting people.

At the end of the day we're all just talking shit.
 
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UVB-76 said:
Give me a guy who can start a fire, tie knots, fish, obtain clean water, crawl for a mile without making noise but doesn't know how to shoot, and I'll train him with the trash in the gravel pit.
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Give me a guy who can start a fire, tie knots, fish, obtain clean water, crawl for a mile without making noise and knows how to handle a gun well enough not to shoot me, the other people, or himself in the gravel pit, and I'll take that one instead.

Whether or not on-the-clock competition shooting helps (it doesn't), there's literally no downside to a population that's familiar with guns if you need to raise a lot of militia/territorial defense troops quickly. Every minute not spent teaching your merry band of butchers, bakers and candlestick makers which end of the gun should point towards the enemy is a minute you can spend teaching them how to keep their head down or how aim the damn rocket launcher.
 
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Corn Flakes said:
and knows how to handle a gun well enough not to shoot me
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Touché. Yeah it's kind of a false dichotomy but my point is how little the type of range matters. There's a lot more to soldiering that can't be taught in a rush, while a gun familiarization course can be done in two days. Could be at the Blackwater training facility or the local gravel pit.
If anything, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers who never touched a gun wouldn't even be the hardest to train. It's the lawyers, accountants and marketing types with shooting competition experience that are going to be a nightmare due to training scars and ego.
 
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UVB-76 said:
Touché. Yeah it's kind of a false dichotomy but my point is how little the type of range matters. There's a lot more to soldiering that can't be taught in a rush, while a gun familiarization course can be done in two days. Could be at the Blackwater training facility or the local gravel pit.
If anything, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers who never touched a gun wouldn't even be the hardest to train. It's the lawyers, accountants and marketing types with shooting competition experience that are going to be a nightmare due to training scars and ego.
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No the hardest to train would be the guys who did 4 years in the Army and think they already know everything.
 
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SinistralRifleman said:
It certainly beats talking shit on the internet and shooting at trash in the gravel pit.

The ability to shoot fast and accurately is never a bad thing. And if you can’t handle the stress of the clock in public, and some physical exertion degrades your marksmanship appreciably I don’t know how you’d expect to do well in combat.

If you get mentally defeated and can’t perform because you’re tired and sore on the clock how can you expect to do well in combat. if weather conditions destroy your will to win at an 4-8 hour match, how can you expect to maintain fighting mindset over the course of days, weeks, months? Watching peoples mindset and psychology degrade at matches under a mild amount of stress and perhaps public embarrassment is very enlightening.
Click to expand...
How to say you've never been shot at without saying you've never been shot at.

If anything, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers who never touched a gun wouldn't even be the hardest to train. It's the lawyers, accountants and marketing types with shooting competition experience that are going to be a nightmare due to training scars and ego.
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It's easier if you have no bad habits to break, unlike gamer faggots who shoot two or three times, then drop a mag out of sheer habit. There was one department that had a gamer train their officers and they developed stupid habits like that, I'm trying to remember which one... Anyway because dipshit thought he was an actual trainer despite no combat or LE experience, he got a few officers shot because they were trained to fire X amount of times, drop their mags, and reload. A shoot out while on the job is one thing, but can you imagine going into actual combat like that?
 
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