General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[Hee]

This doc from german tv is ever-so-slightly critical of transitionning, giving airtime to two detrans lesbians. It also feature a young transman diving deeper into the process and a middle-age transwoman, both are presenting themselves as happy and settled into their new identities.

I am frankly surprised that they decided to be a bit critical. It even mentions that terf island and other countries have tightened their laws without presenting this fact as über-negative.

Could you provide an archive of this video? Thank you very much. I'm surprised this video is restricted from my country.

 

[Sarcastic sockpuppet]

Could you provide an archive of this video? Thank you very much. I'm surprised this video is restricted from my country.

My computer is on it's last leg, so no

You can copy/paste the link into a youtube download thingy, or use a proxy locating you in Germany or France to watch it on youtube (search for Arte they have two youtube channels reposting their docs, one in deutsch and one in omelette de fromage)

www.youtube.com/

watch?v=rYagSfbCyRE (german)

watch?v=NhRYZ8hwsNE (french)

 

[RealMuthaForYa]

I’ve been wondering why a medical establishment, founded on the principles of “do no harm” and the Hippocratic Oath permits transsexual surgery.
The reasons I can see are a grifting, corrupt medical establishment, mainly in the US and South Asian shitholes, who gleefully take money from the deranged with no thought of the principles on which medicine is based.

There’s admirably theocratic reasons, notably in Iran where they do it out of religious spite of homosexual men.

But besides those two, the only reason why physicians carry out such procedures, and can claim to be doing “no harm”, is it gives them good practice for when normal, unfortunate people need operations such as mastectomies and penectomies.

A willing population of clinically insane Troons who are likely to join the 41%ers anyhow, are an invaluable resource for doctors to practice their skills without harming normies.

 

[Fliddaroonie]

I’m sorry but this Is simply not true, Transgenderism has existed for as long as modern humans had been around, It only seems that way because science and studies have advanced to the point where we can accurately assess and determine relatively accurate data on the prevalence and numbers of trans people there are. Similar to any other condition, I.e Autism, Bipolar, Parkinson’s, ADD etc.

Notice that whenever there is a huge discovery in the field of studying a particular condition, the national data about the frequency of those affected increases exponentially That’s doesn’t mean that there has just suddenly been a huge rise In Cases, it is normally because there has been improvement in the validity of researching those afflicted so people who went previously undiagnosed are discovered to have it. With a few exceptions of course.

The recent trans movement is no doubt recent, but likely an equal amount of trans people have always existed throughout history, it just went by unnoticed due to the general hostility towards LGBT people and the historic harsh social standards society had for so many centuries. They were forced into secrecy through fear of public ridicule and being outcasts, which you could argue is still continuing to this day.

No it had not. It's been how society has made homosexuality societally acceptable and palatable. Nothing more.

It was only a thing to hide the gays, and was very much a "spay away the gay". Just like it is now, you only have to find interviews with Susie green about her castrated and mutilated son, or any of the batshitfuckinginsane "mama bears" of "transgirls" to realise this is rife in that bent of society.

By all means keep believing the bullshit but you're wrong.


And stop shoving the troons in with the LBGs, the ts are a fucking pestilence.

 

[Deepland Bystander]

I’ve been wondering why a medical establishment, founded on the principles of “do no harm” and the Hippocratic Oath permits transsexual surgery.
The reasons I can see are a grifting, corrupt medical establishment, mainly in the US and South Asian shitholes, who gleefully take money from the deranged with no thought of the principles on which medicine is based.

There’s admirably theocratic reasons, notably in Iran where they do it out of religious spite of homosexual men.

But besides those two, the only reason why physicians carry out such procedures, and can claim to be doing “no harm”, is it gives them good practice for when normal, unfortunate people need operations such as mastectomies and penectomies.

A willing population of clinically insane Troons who are likely to join the 41%ers anyhow, are an invaluable resource for doctors to practice their skills without harming normies.

Trans legal identification had its root in Europe, even with socialised healthcare - the problem is that it is not all about money (directly), but that medical establishment see itself as an institution to create an order to the world and done away with people who are 'undesirables' while they're tryingg to cut the cost, this is how trannyism happened. Just like how much Lobotomy was used because no one wants to put a real resource to deal with mentally ill people, and not just 'mentally ill' in strict sense, but this includes political dissidents and even misbehaving children - trans surgery has been used to castrate and silo away the gays, gender role nonconformists, sexual perverts and sad formerly abused children who simply want an escape from themselves.

If you read papers regarding Chris Jorgensen - his transition was viewed as a way to castrate a homo while making it feels like he was making this choice. And in the cases in Weimar Germany (Dora Richter and Lili Elbe seem to be both AGPs), it was the social landscape of full blown decadency and economic downturn and the academic/medicine landscape of the time was the epitome of the question "How fast can medicine advance if you throw all the ethics away?" - this landscape produced many discoveries... but with a cost. The time where archetypal 'German mad scientists'' came from - The doctors who conducted Nazi death camp experiments and the ones who invented trannyism at the sex institute were cut from the same cloth. (and in a case, actually the same person - see Erwin Gohrbandt)

Although at the current day troons are more like priest-caste, the modern day eunuchs that control the public opinion and media... it's a strange development indeed. but many of the aspects related to trans, wokeness, encroachment of medicine of our current age feel very religion-like.

 

[RealMuthaForYa]

"How fast medicine can advance if you throw all the ethics away"

This has been demonstrated by how medical experts have responded to the Rona and what happens when you let them direct public policy.
There’s a reason why the over educated are put into universities and told to pump out learned papers: it’s because they’re borderline sociopaths and cannot be trusted.

 

[lolcow yoghurt]

I used to be a TRA, I was young and believed in their indoctrination. Every post I saw was about trans people and identities. I was blindly believing that trans men were men and trans women were women. At one point I called myself nonbinary. Then in 2019, I discovered kiwifarms

 

[thegooddoctor]

The vast majority of "hate crimes" these days are hoaxes.

Thé vast majority of trans crimes are hoaxes or vastly exaggerated, anti-trans and homophobes are far more antisocial and still commit more crimes than any trans person does.

 

[RealMuthaForYa]

Have I got this right?

1. Transsexuals who have had operations -clinically insane people who need mental health help.
2. Trannies - cross dressers/transvestites/perverts who should be encouraged to keep their kinks behind closed doors and away from children.
3. Non-binaries: flamboyant, androgynous narcissists who should have the piss taken out of them and not taken seriously. Treat them the same as Goths.

 

[PenneHead]

Am I transphobic for personally believing that being trans you have a mental illness (respectfully) with gender dysphoria? I’m more than willing to call someone by their preferred pronouns & will not treat them differently. Maybe I’m rather uneducated about the trans/gender dysphoria thing.

 

[thegooddoctor]

No it had not. It's been how society has made homosexuality societally acceptable and palatable. Nothing more.

It was only a thing to hide the gays, and was very much a "spay away the gay". Just like it is now, you only have to find interviews with Susie green about her castrated and mutilated son, or any of the batshitfuckinginsane "mama bears" of "transgirls" to realise this is rife in that bent of society.

By all means keep believing the bullshit but you're wrong.


And stop shoving the troons in with the LBGs, the ts are a fucking pestilence.

How could you possibly know this, gender dysphoria has probably always existed as long as humans have been around. Like when neurologists gained greater understanding of the nuances of bipolar, schizophrenia or psychosis in the mental health Revolutions of the 1980s, better research and simple evolution of neuroscience, they discovered many more people may have had particular illnesses or conditions than they previously thought. This doesn’t mean that they had only just acquired said condition. It was simply a new discovery of people who were previously thought neurotypical or asymptomatic to have actually possessed it.

The idea of Trans people literally just coming to existence in the 20th century is ludicrous, societies knowledge of its existence would have have been made more mainstream then certainly, due to the sexual revolution of the 60s and societies slow but steady lean towards tolerance towards LGBT people by the end of the 1900’s. But it doesn’t mean that there were no trans people in history before 1900 and gender dysphoria existed as a condition from then on.

No, mental illnesses and mindsets have existed all throughout history, our acknowledgment of their existence emerges only when science progresses and cultural forces dictate our perceptions of what ideology are acceptable and accessible through the changing social standards of each period in history. Our accepting or ignorance of a condition has no bearing in its existence. Just because something hasn’t been proven to yet exist doesn’t mean it doesn’t, there are untold millions of things humans haven’t discovered about the world yet Just we don’t know of their existence doesn’t mean they don’t exist. It is just simply currently out of our grasp. Just like transpeople.

Just because we didn’t know or understand what they were didn’t mean they hadn’t existed up until when we discovered them. Same for any illness or scientific discovery throughout history, use your brain please and thing about how long modern society has been around for , this is a far more deep and long running social phenomenon than you may have previously thought to be.

 

[PenneHead]

I just want to know if I’m transphobic man maybe someone can educate me on the matter so I can learn.

 

[Kung Pow Cream]

I just want to know if I’m transphobic man maybe someone can educate me on the matter so I can learn.

Anyone is transphobic if you don't keep up their delusions.

 

[DavidS877]

I just want to know if I’m transphobic man maybe someone can educate me on the matter so I can learn.

Do you believe that transwomen are exactly the same as women and can have periods, give birth, compete in sports, use the same restrooms, have sex with straight men, etc.

If no, then congratulations, you're transphobic, don't worry, we have cookies.

 

[Kung Pow Cream]

Am I transphobic for personally believing that being trans you have a mental illness (respectfully) with gender dysphoria? I’m more than willing to call someone by their preferred pronouns & will not treat them differently. Maybe I’m rather uneducated about the trans/gender dysphoria thing.

Let me give you a detailed answer. The definition of mental illness is basically something that is wrong with your thought processes that is causing you issues in your ability to function in society. Trans people are very distressed over their gender and appearance. It ruins their happiness and they are constantly having intrusive thoughts that cause a negative reaction within themselves. This is why many professionals back in the day listed it as a mental illness. And they were correct in that part.

However now that being trans is an identity, you can't say that they have a mental illness. At the most, you can say they have gender dysphoria and that's slowly losing steam because now people are saying you don't need dysphoria to be trans.

So long story short, if you were to say that all trans people are mentally ill, you would be considered a transphobe. If you said all trans people had dysphoria, you would be considered a transphobe. This is because you are not bending backwards to cater to their every will and allowing them to have no standards or rules. This is what I mean by not catering to their delusions. Anything that isn't constant approval or cheering is seen as transphobic.

 

[PenneHead]

Do you believe that transwomen are exactly the same as women and can have periods, give birth, compete in sports, use the same restrooms, have sex with straight men, etc.

If no, then congratulations, you're transphobic, don't worry, we have cookies.

I think trans women are not the same as biological women. I don’t even think trans women can give birth, I think if a trans woman has fully transitioned and she wants to date or have sex with a straight man she should tell them about her history first, I’m rather iffy about trans women in public restrooms as well. I did get called homophobic & threatened doxx by someone because I said that trans woman should not be able to compete in the olympics or competitions in a woman’s league, I think they should have their own league respectfully. I think that gender dysphoria should be classified as a mental illness but overall I wouldn’t treat a trans person any different than I would anyone else. I also don’t understand pronouns much because I’m never really in a position to use: they, them, xer and etc. on the topic of gender dysphoria, don’t you need to have gender dysphoria when you’re thinking about becoming trans?

 

[chiobu]

Could you provide an archive of this video? Thank you very much. I'm surprised this video is restricted from my country.

German

French

 

[batteredpancakes]

I have no idea what thread I should put this in so i'm just gonna put this here.
So I found a paper from a bunch of Trannies complaining to researchers about how they're being transphobic by making them look bad and they should only post research when it's positive and affirming.

Spoiler: Paper

As transgender people working in HIV research and public health, we express concern over the exploitation of transgender communities in academic research. Articles published in The Lancet have compelled our response, but in the spirit of calling our colleagues in rather than out, we are responding to the broader practice of studying transgender communities as so-called subjects of academic intrigue rather than real people with urgent health needs.
For example, we have observed a trend in public health literature concluding that transgender women partner with cisgender heterosexual men. Perhaps this finding is astonishing to the dominant research establishment, but it is not new information to transgender communities. Methods used to reach this conclusion include HIV-molecular and phylodynamic analyses—methods that are reported to have alarming limitations, questionable ethics, and potentially harmful consequences.

Use of potentially dangerous methods to reproduce knowledge that already exists in transgender communities exemplifies a systemic problem in public health research that prioritises so-called scholarship over the wellbeing of study populations who experience discrimination. Transgender people need not be subjected to these methods; knowledge of our partnerships is readily available in our lived experience. Furthermore, presenting this finding as unexpected perpetuates the transphobic notion that transgender women are not real women, and that heterosexual men's partnerships with transgender women should inspire bewilderment. We remind our colleagues of the serious danger of undermining transgender people's identities.

Researchers have a great responsibility: the creation and production of knowledge. Trans-gender people (including transgender academics) have to live with the knowledge that is created about us. We ask researchers who study transgender communities to consider the following questions. Who is the research for: the researchers or the study population? Does the project offer any meaningful benefit to transgender communities? Could the research question be reformulated to address more pressing needs among transgender people than what is being investigated? How does the project prioritise the needs of transgender people who are Black, Indigenous, and people of colour, whose health needs are most urgent due to enduring multiple forms of structural oppression? Do the methods include inherent limitations, ethical considerations, or potentially harmful consequences? How might the study portray transgender communities in stigmatising ways?

Over the years, transgender and allied responses to research in transgender populations have been reactive and proactive.We urge researchers studying transgender people to thoughtfully use these resources. Transgender people urgently need research that results in meaning-ful progress for our communities. We declare that research on transgender people must benefit transgender people.

We declare no competing interests.

Spoiler: Author Info

Brian Minalga - "Nonbinary transfeminine person" so a TiM

Cecilia Chung - TiM

Nicole Lynn Perry - TiM marine.

Alic G. Shook - TiF (Lesbian).
NY Times Post
He is a pediatric and population health nurse with experience in pediatric emergency medicine, pediatric oncology/hematology, pediatric intensive care, HIV services, and research. Most recently his research has focused on the healthcare-seeking experiences of transgender youth under 18 and how the intersection of age, race, gender, class, and transphobia influences their abilities to access a range of health and social services.

Aleks Martin - non binary Social Worker. TiM.

JD Davids - TiF (potential minor lolcow)
JD Davids is a white/Ashkenazi Jewish queer and trans organizer, writer, and strategist living with ME/CFS and several other chronic conditions in Brooklyn, N.Y, on Munsee Lenape and Canarsie land. He writes and hosts conversations for The Cranky Queer Guide to Chronic Illness at @TheCrankyQueer.

 

[Windows 10 Upgrade]

The idea of Trans people literally just coming to existence in the 20th century is ludicrous, societies knowledge of its existence would have have been made more mainstream then certainly, due to the sexual revolution of the 60s and societies slow but steady lean towards tolerance towards LGBT people by the end of the 1900’s. But it doesn’t mean that there were no trans people in history before 1900 and gender dysphoria existed as a condition from then on.

There's a big difference between the "crossdresser living as opposite gender/sex" of pretty much all of history, (and whether through necessity or fetish they've been evident in all societies) and todays tranny I suspect.

In nearly all of them there was a tacit awareness that they were not "true and honest male/females" and on some level were accepted despite of this. There was also a path out and back to the "other side". Probably the most that could be done was an orchi, castration or mastectomy, and this only fairly recently, and only on adults.

(Eunuchs are probably another story altogether)

The 20/21st Century tranny that has peaked most of us away from the "live and let live" is a creature who seeks to be utterly modified by surgery and artificial hormones.. Their entire being is utterly predicated on permanent poisoning, disfigurement and mutilation as a step towards their "truth". Even this would be fine for a consenting adult, but these monsters have started to proselytize, and this has of late been HUGELY aimed at children.

Even a few years ago, sex education with primary school kids was not a big deal - even a two-mommy situation was fine but now the fucking TRAs want their deviances to be presented as "normal" and everyone is understandably worried.

Because these deviances end up being mutilation, surgery, cutting in to flesh, endocrine poisoning, harm.

 

[AnOminous]

I’ve been wondering why a medical establishment, founded on the principles of “do no harm” and the Hippocratic Oath permits transsexual surgery.

The Hippocratic Oath is a quaint archaism to current medical "science."