Google Diversity Memo

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Jordan B. Peterson chimes in. And as ever is plagued by technical difficulties. I especially enjoyed them talking about echo chambers... while the audio was echoing.

I'm not so sure this constitutes salt mind you but it ought to generate a fair bit.

Felt bad for the lack of salt contained and updated to the full video and collected some salt from the Escapist's Wild West forum! I'm thinking of just starting an Escapist thread because the place clomps with cows. The salt begins around the third post.

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White men are the cause of pretty much everything, says Dobbo. Do you like not being dead of smallpox? A white man invented that. Do you like cars? White men again. Electricity? Wow! White men did that too!

We should seriously get rid of white men and go back to living in caves and dying of polio.
 
I don't get the hate. He makes GOOD POINTS and even if you don't agree with him or if he is in fact wrong on some things - NOTHING justifies this insane witch hunt.
He didn't write the memo because he hates women or minorities. He wrote them because he wants to help to get MORE women into engineering.

He also says that he still likes google - which is heartbreaking because they don't deserve this. If I was the google CEO, I would offer him another job and work with him to establish ACTUAL diversity. This might be the only thing to end this PR nightmare.
 
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I don't get the hate. He makes GOOD POINTS and even if you don't agree with him or if he is in fact wrong on some things - NOTHING justifies this insane witch hunt.
He didn't wrote the memo because he hates women or minorities. He wrote them because he wants to help to get MORE women into engineering.

He also says that he still likes google - which is heartbreaking because they don't deserve this. If I was the google CEO, I would offer him another job and work with him to establish ACTUAL diversity. This might be the only thing to end this PR nightmare.
Because it broke ranks with the narrative. It asked questions that can't be asked, because the entire worldview that leads to the idea "women are underrepresented in tech because they're oppressed!" falls apart when you ask whether most women are actually interested in the field.
 
I don't get the hate. He makes GOOD POINTS and even if you don't agree with him or if he is in fact wrong on some things - NOTHING justifies this insane witch hunt.
He didn't wrote the memo because he hates women or minorities. He wrote them because he wants to help to get MORE women into engineering.

He also says that he still likes google - which is heartbreaking because they don't deserve this. If I was the google CEO, I would offer him another job and work with him to establish ACTUAL diversity. This might be the only thing to end this PR nightmare.

The hate is because there's an entire cottage industry of professional grievance mongers and full time "activists" in Corporate America who know full well that if they were judged on anything more than the shallowest aspects of their character they wouldn't hold on to the cushy HR or "development" titles that pay them six figures to obsess over social media while doing little-to-no actual work. That, and Google's executives have, for years, built up a cult of personality around the company that gets thousands of nerds to work 80+ hour weeks without asking for overtime.

So you get a guy arguing on their internal social media that Google should stop focusing quite so much on discriminating against the majority and implementing a top down diversity model that prioritizes more surface level diversity ASAP, and instead argues that they should change the corporate culture to reward more stereotypically female concerns like work-life balance and a more social development model. This threatens both the diversity hires who know they can't cut it if that really happened, and the management who will be unable to take advantage of all the free/cheap labor ingrained into Google culture.
 
I don't get the hate. He makes GOOD POINTS and even if you don't agree with him or if he is in fact wrong on some things - NOTHING justifies this insane witch hunt.
He didn't wrote the memo because he hates women or minorities. He wrote them because he wants to help to get MORE women into engineering.

Worth noting that in his interview with Peterson he says he was prompted to write his memo after being pulled into a "diversity" meeting that apparently was one of the few cases where Google doesn't share it with the employee network, and was advocating (apparently) illegal practices. He wrote the memo because he wanted to be proven wrong about what he suspected in regards to how they were handing diversity issues.

In all honesty he's not wrong, pair programming is a nice idea maybe while learning code (to appeal more to the social side of girls) - but in a work environment, business won't want girls in pairs for various economic and efficiency issues. At the same time, retooling code projects to appeal to women's social or maternal natures a good idea.

Sadly a lot of Progressives don't actually want to improve things for anyone (at least not massively) - they'll improve it for close friends, but also not actually "cure" the issue enough so they can still complain about the man keeping them down anyway. Easier than actually going for proper equality
 
Because it broke ranks with the narrative. It asked questions that can't be asked, because the entire worldview that leads to the idea "women are underrepresented in tech because they're oppressed!" falls apart when you ask whether most women are actually interested in the field.
THIS! FUCKING! POST! I hereby bestow upon it all my Winner, Agree and Like ratings! I mean how many times have we heard "Women are under represented REEEEEEEEEEE" "OH thats bad, what STEM are you studying?" "Oh STEM is misogynistic I'm doing black womens sexual rape studies at an independent feminist college in Puerto Rico!"
 
This is all true. Go read Assange's When Google Met Wikileaks. It's all in there, and it's scary as hell.
Its obvious as hell though, they out competed the other search engines largely thanks to unlimited "investor" funding, no ads, while always finding the money to eat its competitors and bury them and remain ahead of the competition with its search engine, which used to be pretty good. I miss having yahoo as a home page, purely for the news section. I miss Ask Jeeves, Dogpile, and others being relevant.

work 80+ hour weeks without asking for overtime.
The fuck?
 
Because it broke ranks with the narrative. It asked questions that can't be asked, because the entire worldview that leads to the idea "women are underrepresented in tech because they're oppressed!" falls apart when you ask whether most women are actually interested in the field.

I think there actually are artificial barriers to entry that disproportionately affect women. Few of these, now, are actual, deliberate, malicious sexism. Many are structural or inadvertent, or just related to the fact people hire people who are like themselves, and many of these people are men.

Still, even if you removed every single artificial barrier and installed active measures to recruit and foster women in tech, I think you're just going to find fewer women who actually want to be there than men.

I think the women (and other minorities) who actually do succeed in the field are entirely the equals of their male counterparts.

Still, there are fewer of them, and there probably always will be. This isn't a bad or a good thing. It's just a thing.
 
Meanwhile, a wild irony appears:

Google's diversity efforts fall flat

Bottom line: Despite Google and its parent company's public statements in support of diversity in technology and multiple outreach and community programs, it seems to have made little headway since it began publishing its workforce demographic data three years ago. For example, U.S. Latino employees now make up 5% of the overall workforce and professional jobs, up from 3% each in 2013, and women now hold 13% of leadership positions, up from 8%. At the same time, black employees still only make up 2% of all U.S. jobs, 2% of technical ones, and 3% of executive roles.

Google declined to provide additional information when asked how it evaluates the effectiveness of its efforts, pointing to its diversity website.

:story:
 
I think there actually are artificial barriers to entry that disproportionately affect women. Few of these, now, are actual, deliberate, malicious sexism. Many are structural or inadvertent, or just related to the fact people hire people who are like themselves, and many of these people are men.

Still, even if you removed every single artificial barrier and installed active measures to recruit and foster women in tech, I think you're just going to find fewer women who actually want to be there than men.

I think the women (and other minorities) who actually do succeed in the field are entirely the equals of their male counterparts.

Still, there are fewer of them, and there probably always will be. This isn't a bad or a good thing. It's just a thing.

Studies have shown Women don't tend to hire other Women, especially if they are going to be working in the same section/department. Women are more likely to hire Men. Various reasons have been theorised as to why that is.

However in the retail and service sector, it's Women that are preferred. In the past only Women were allowed to serve customers at some restauraunt chains. It's only in the past 20 or so years that's changed.

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