GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[TheRaptorJesus]

"So GN has a contact who is a large intel customer (maybe largest, though I don't know who that is) with over 8 million 13th gen CPUs and they listed these as having problems at the rate of 10-25%: i9-13900T, i9-13900, i9-13900F, i7-13700K, i7-13700KF, i7-13700, i7-13700T, i5-13600K, i5-13600KF, i9-13900K, i9-13900KF"

Looks like i5s and i7s aren't safe. They flew too close to the sun and are now reaping the results of being such desperate whores for years now.

Its a good thing I waffle, I've made several 13th gen builds on PCPP and almost pulled the trigger several times. Guess my 11900k will have to last a while longer.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Its a good thing I waffle, I've made several 13th gen builds on PCPP and almost pulled the trigger several times. Guess my 11900k will have to last a while longer.

Ngl, I was considering intel for the first time since my core 2 quad q6600 and almost got one of those intel 13k bundles from microcenter. Instead went for a ryzen 7900x combo for the same price and included ram.

Bullet. Dodged.

 

[TheRaptorJesus]

E-Core less 14th gen? Wonder how they fare in this degradation issue.

Intel Silently Intros 14th Gen Desktop CPUs Without E-Cores: Core i9-14901KE Flagship With 8 P-Cores, 5.8 GHz Clocks, 125W TDP​

Seems to be an embedded version, do they normally make K SKUs of embedded chips?

Ngl, I was considering intel for the first time since my core 2 quad q6600 and almost got one of those intel 13k bundles from microcenter. Instead went for a ryzen 7900x combo for the same price and included ram.

Bullet. Dodged.

I've been debating a swap, but that'd also have to include a new AMD compatible waterblock so that adds another ~$125 ($50 or so to convert my optimus to AMD) to a build.

 

[The Ugly One]

Meh, every year to a degree, but not every month. When somebody says "I want to get a new laptop" the response is going to differ between them saying that when a new generation is 11 months away and when that new generation is a few weeks away.

And I'll only grant it as true every year in a very qualified terms. The jump from 12th gen Intel to 13th gen or 13th gen to 14th gen is looking to be a Hell of a lot less significant than the jump to Lunar Lake or what the new Ryzen processors might be. For the past two years, Intel's generational update can be summed up as "force more power through it". This is not the same. Or doesn't look likely to be.

When Intel launches Lunar Lake laptops, assuming there's a gaming machine based on this CPU (there wasn't for Meteor Lake), it's going to be a lot more expensive than Alder Lake + 4050.

Seems to be an embedded version, do they normally make K SKUs of embedded chips?

They didn't with 12th gen. But more to the point, an i9-12900E was an 8+8 config 65W chip clocked up to 5 GHz. This is officially a shitshow. i9-14901KE is basically compensating for the E-cores by doubling the power consumption so it can clock 20% higher.

 

[TheRaptorJesus]

They didn't with 12th gen. But more to the point, an i9-12900E was an 8+8 config 65W chip clocked up to 5 GHz. This is officially a shitshow. i9-14901KE is basically compensating for the E-cores by doubling the power consumption so it can clock 20% higher.

They really need to stop making new CPUs every year if its just gonna be frequency pushing. Lets have some real advancement.

 

[Barry McKockner]

The new connector is unnecessary and derbaur had a video talking about it. 8 pins have a larger safety gap than the 12vhpwr. I don't know why nvidia doesn't admit defeat with this connector.

View attachment 6195035

I do like that it's a single connector. One cable running out to the front of the PC is cleaner than two, and my only gripe is that the stock adapter splits it at the card, and doesn't allow you to put the connection somewhere below or hidden in the case.

The problem with this connector is not in it's specs. It's literally EXACTLY the same thing as a 2x8pin PCIe set up. both have 6 12v+ and 6 common wire, and the 12vhpwr connector specs require the use of 16awg instead of the smaller 18. So he's wrong when he says that the theoretical max is different, it's not. It's either the connectors aren't physically large enough, thereby acting like a fuse of sorts, or they need to go up to a 18 pin connector with 9 12v+ and 9 commons for this high of a draw (or like he said, do two of those. But this video is comparing apples to oranges. He should have compared 2 x 8pin to compare apples to apples, but when he did, he found that they were the exact same, and he wanted to bash the connector instead of Nvidia for not using enough connectors to give the appropriate amount of headroom to not overload the pins.

In summary, the connector is fine for most applications. The dumbfucks at Nvidia just need to learn to use more of them or make a larger one for their ultra high powered cards because not only does overclocking add current, but transient spikes when you only have roughly 180w-200w of headroom above stock max power draw on a connector is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Freedom Fighter]

They really need to stop making new CPUs every year if its just gonna be frequency pushing. Lets have some real advancement.

Gotta have a different number in each year's laptops.

 

[WULULULULU]

They really need to stop making new CPUs every year if its just gonna be frequency pushing. Lets have some real advancement.

That involves Intel imploding by themselves.

 

[WelperHelper99]

"So GN has a contact who is a large intel customer (maybe largest, though I don't know who that is) with over 8 million 13th gen CPUs and they listed these as having problems at the rate of 10-25%: i9-13900T, i9-13900, i9-13900F, i7-13700K, i7-13700KF, i7-13700, i7-13700T, i5-13600K, i5-13600KF, i9-13900K, i9-13900KF"

Looks like i5s and i7s aren't safe. They flew too close to the sun and are now reaping the results of being such desperate whores for years now.

12th gen chads STAY WINNING. So glad I bought a 12900k. Kek.

So it's safe to get a 12th gen intel cpu? I'm shopping for a laptop and there's a good deal on one with a 4050 and 12th gen intel cpu.

Yes. 12th isn't even the same die size as 13th or 14th, it's 10nm, not 7nm. They completely retooled for 13th and 14th. Clearly they fucked up in the process.

i9-14901KE is basically compensating for the E-cores by doubling the power consumption so it can clock 20% higher.

How do you even cool that? Seriously, fucking how?

 

[The Ugly One]

Yes. 12th isn't even the same die size as 13th or 14th, it's 10nm, not 7nm. They completely retooled for 13th and 14th. Clearly they fucked up in the process.

12th, 13th, and 14th are all on the same process, Intel 7, and they are nearly identical designs. For 13th & 14th, they changed the L3 cache and added a couple E-cores.

There is some confusion because Intel rebranded "Intel 10nm Enhanced Superfin" as "Intel 7." Intel 7 approximately the same transistor density as Samsung 7LPP and TSMC N7, hence the name change to be more consistent with how other foundries started doing things.

 

[WelperHelper99]

12th, 13th, and 14th are all on the same process, Intel 7, and they are nearly identical designs. For 13th & 14th, they changed the L3 cache and added a couple E-cores.

There is some confusion because Intel rebranded "Intel 10nm Enhanced Superfin" as "Intel 7." Intel 7 approximately the same transistor density as Samsung 7LPP and TSMC N7, hence the name change to be more consistent with how other foundries started doing things.

Ah. So it's 10nm but not 10nm, it's more like 7nm. Ok, I see what's happening.

 

[The Ugly One]

Ah. So it's 10nm but not 10nm, it's more like 7nm. Ok, I see what's happening.

What happened is that former guidance on how to name a process became obsolete.

There are a bunch of features on a chip...DRAM, MPUs, MCUs, etc. In the early days of semiconductors, everything shrank at the same rate. So if the gate pitch on a new process was half the size of that of the old process, so was every other feature on the chip.

Feature shrinks are no longer uniform, so there's no "correct" way to name a feature. Intel used one convention, while Samsung & TSMC came up with a different convention. The Samsung/TSMC naming convention made it sound like they were a lot further ahead of Intel than they really were.

 

[macrodegenerate]

Broadwell chads keep winning gonna pick up a pair of 2690v4s from a friend for $25. Toss em in the old server with a p100 and go ham. Finally up to 40GB vram with the 3080 and 3060

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Intel Publishes Official Response To 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPU Instability Issues: Cites Elevated Operating Voltages As Root Cause, New Microcode Patch In August

Based on extensive analysis of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. We are continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Intel is currently targeting mid-August for patch release to partners following full validation.

Intel is committed to making this right with our customers, and we continue asking any customers currently experiencing instability issues on their Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance.

Intel Community

I guess this explains why something like an i9-13900T would be affected, not that the 35W base TDP chips can't draw a lot of power normally.

 

[WULULULULU]

Desktop dream: complete

Spoiler: Desktop Specs

Ryzen 9 7800X3D
Asrock B650M HDV/M.2
Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120
G.Skill Flare X5 6000Mhz, CL32
(2) Western Digital SN850X 1TB NVMe
ASUS RX 6750XT Dual OC 12GB
Corsair RM650 (2023)
Corsair 4000D Airflow Case
Gigabyte GS27Q-C Monitor

 

[Fcret]

Apparently Intel has released an interim microcode fix to stop degradation of the affected 13th and 14th gen CPUs. It comes with a small performance penalty but is supposed to keep your CPU from dying. Apparently the full fix is due out in late August and will bring performance back in line with what was advertised but without chip degradation.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Just bought a very nice WD Red m.2 drive to replace the Kingston nv2 drive occupying the 3.0 slot on the motherboard. And heatsink too. Has very high durability, 2000 TBW for the 1tb model, which is what I want considering this is where I store my files and important shit, which currently the VERY cheap Kingston is doing. Feels good upgrading the weak points on my PC now that I can. All in all, it was roughly $120 for the drive and heatsink.

 

[seri0us]

I was honestly too lazy to check if my M.2s were throttling without heatsinks but it's just one of those things that feels good to have, you know?

 

[WelperHelper99]

I was honestly too lazy to check if my M.2s were throttling without heatsinks but it's just one of those things that feels good to have, you know?

I just figure it's 10 bucks, might as well so it doesn't throttle in the first place. Yeah it just feels good to have

 

[4090 Chad]

I just figure it's 10 bucks, might as well so it doesn't throttle in the first place. Yeah it just feels good to have

To my knowledge. You should only hitting those kind of SSD temps if you were running work loads where there was prolonged reads and writes to the drive.

Gaming shouldn’t be pushing a drive to throttling temps as far as I am aware, but having a heat sink obviously doesn’t hurt and could prolong the life of the drive.