GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[CreamyHerman’s]

It's more useful for stuff like CAD, machine learning, and deepfakes than gaming. In some cases you could tweak your settings to easily use up all of the VRAM (Ctrl+F for VRAM on this MrDeepFakes guide). The professional and content creation angle leads to GPUs like this being labeled "prosumer". It's not a workstation Quadro GPU, but it's encroaching on the same territory.

It would be more useful if the silicon wasn't trash. There's a reason why there hasn't been a proper Titan from this generation of reason GPU'S, and it has to do with efficiency and heat.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Holy moly, that's a lot of VRAM. What's that much even for?

One thing I'm reminded of is when 20gb hard drives first appeared and people were saying that was an insane amount of space and there was no way a sane person could fill it. Now many games are bigger than that.

(I remember this being around 2008 or so. But articles of that time say 512gb and 1tb drives were common, so I don't know if I have the size right, but the point is the same.)

With film companies trying to push 4k and sometimes 8k as the new standard, I can see high end games having an option for 16k uncompressed textures.

 

[Pissmaster]

One thing I'm reminded of is when 20gb hard drives first appeared and people were saying that was an insane amount of space and there was no way a sane person could fill it. Now many games are bigger than that.

(I remember this being around 2008 or so. But articles of that time say 512gb and 1tb drives were common, so I don't know if I have the size right, but the point is the same.)

With film companies trying to push 4k and sometimes 8k as the new standard, I can see high end games having an option for 16k uncompressed textures.

Probably more like 1998. My dad's computer from 2000 came with a 40gb HDD, and that at the time seemed huge. I currently have, let's see... Eight Steam games installed that exceed 40gb, and 22 that exceed 20. Granted, that does sound like a colossal amount of space at a time when even the biggest individual files never exceeded a gigabyte, and high res mode in games were like, 1024x768. I think that was the high res mode in The Sims 1.

Just to be funny, here's a (thumbnailed) 1024x768 image for you to enjoy in all of its now-tiny glory:

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

One thing I'm reminded of is when 20gb hard drives first appeared and people were saying that was an insane amount of space and there was no way a sane person could fill it. Now many games are bigger than that.

(I remember this being around 2008 or so. But articles of that time say 512gb and 1tb drives were common, so I don't know if I have the size right, but the point is the same.)

With film companies trying to push 4k and sometimes 8k as the new standard, I can see high end games having an option for 16k uncompressed textures.

There's a pretty big difference between cramming more useless uncompressed shit on a disk, and a GPU having the power to render a game that would be actually putting that ungodly amount of vram to use. Does anything even come close to 16gb of usage nowadays?

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

It's more useful for stuff like CAD, machine learning, and deepfakes than gaming. In some cases you could tweak your settings to easily use up all of the VRAM (Ctrl+F for VRAM on this MrDeepFakes guide). The professional and content creation angle leads to GPUs like this being labeled "prosumer". It's not a workstation Quadro GPU, but it's encroaching on the same territory.

It's a good hook too, the Quadro have features that the consumer cards don't and a hobbyist might start lower on the GPU totem pole as they are learning, work their way up to something prosumer like a x090 and in some cases eventually bump their head against the limits of what that card allows. Now they need a Quadro and they understand why.

It also works in reverse, some professionals have stopped buying Quadros because 80's and 90's works just as well in what they're doing. They could even get two of them (before the price insanity). And there's pro/enterprise/studio drivers for the consumer segment from both Nvidia and AMD. Everything is pretty nice and accessible these days and it is both exciting and boring.

One thing I'm reminded of is when 20gb hard drives first appeared and people were saying that was an insane amount of space and there was no way a sane person could fill it. Now many games are bigger than that.

You got me thinking about how things have scaled over the years. In 2000 a 1 CD game(650MB) on a 20GB HDD occupies as much space(relatively) as a 65GB game does on a 2TB drive today.

 

[StopSneeding]

Hit 5.4ghz on i5-12600k, but temps and voltage increase just aren't worth it right now. Even on a custom loop I'm hitting 90-95C with OCCT. Minimum of delid and possibly direct die would be needed to run 5.5ghz+. 5.3ghz requires around 1.32V with properly set AC/DC loadline and hits 80-85C. I'm going to stay at 5.2ghz for now, only 1.24V required, probably less.

Right now I'm overclocking ring bus cache freq and e-cores. Easily overclocked e-cores and cache to 4.2 ghz with no increased voltage requirements. They can be clocked independently, but are more stable when running 1:1. Once I max them out I will tighten RAM timings. Will have to likely crank DDR4 volts to 1.45 and maybe play with system agent volts. Tightening timings is probably the only move, my sticks probably won't do much higher frequency. Aiming for CL of 15.

 

[Brain Problems]

Hit 5.4ghz on i5-12600k, but temps and voltage increase just aren't worth it right now. Even on a custom loop I'm hitting 90-95C with OCCT. Minimum of delid and possibly direct die would be needed to run 5.5ghz+. 5.3ghz requires around 1.32V with properly set AC/DC loadline and hits 80-85C. I'm going to stay at 5.2ghz for now, only 1.24V required, probably less.

Right now I'm overclocking ring bus cache freq and e-cores. Easily overclocked e-cores and cache to 4.2 ghz with no increased voltage requirements. They can be clocked independently, but are more stable when running 1:1. Once I max them out I will tighten RAM timings. Will have to likely crank DDR4 volts to 1.45 and maybe play with system agent volts. Tightening timings is probably the only move, my sticks probably won't do much higher frequency. Aiming for CL of 15.

Genuine question and no snark at all: why are you overclocking?

I feel like Back In The Day this was a big deal and everyone was always going on about OCing and water cooling and the rest but the pay off always confused me beyond looking at the entire thing like you would a souped-up Honda that some guy is telling you can go so fast it can fly; you appreciate the know-how and tech that goes into making it work that way but confused about the long-term benefits/viability.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Genuine question and no snark at all: why are you overclocking?

I feel like Back In The Day this was a big deal and everyone was always going on about OCing and water cooling and the rest but the pay off always confused me beyond looking at the entire thing like you would a souped-up Honda that some guy is telling you can go so fast it can fly; you appreciate the know-how and tech that goes into making it work that way but confused about the long-term benefits/viability.

Overclocking can be fun. I have a 6800xt watercooled that beats out a fair number of air cooled 6900s.

Brought it back down because honestly running it at 1.25v and pulling 400+ watts just isn't worth it when it already maxes out everything I play at 1440.

 

[StopSneeding]

Genuine question and no snark at all: why are you overclocking?

I feel like Back In The Day this was a big deal and everyone was always going on about OCing and water cooling and the rest but the pay off always confused me beyond looking at the entire thing like you would a souped-up Honda that some guy is telling you can go so fast it can fly; you appreciate the know-how and tech that goes into making it work that way but confused about the long-term benefits/viability.

I enjoy overclocking a lot and have been doing it for quite a long time. For the last few years new chip generations have had little headroom to overclock. Alder Lake architecture is different and is excellent in how far it can go and be configured. Intel essentially removed all built in power limitations. For an hour of work (mostly setting a stress test to run and walking away) I gained 15% performance on the CPU. Thermals are great and voltage requirements are acceptable.

I'm just an enthusiast and love building PCs and watercooling setups. Enjoy modding hardware and circuitry. Guess it's like how some people enjoy modding cars. Will you ever be able to push a car with a turbo or nitro that hard daily? Probably not, but it's interesting to push it to the limit and fuck around. Sometimes you break shit, but hopefully not too much. Overclocking and pc building/modding are sort of the same.

Im not too crazy into it. Some people use car rads, thermoelectric cooling peltiers, and build radiators into the floors of their home. Extreme overclockers use liquid nitrogen to cool the CPU to achieve world records. In the enthusiast scene it is a kind of sport. There's a lot of room to do pretty crazy shit. Only limit is ingenuity and how much $ you can spend.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Genuine question and no snark at all: why are you overclocking?

I feel like Back In The Day this was a big deal and everyone was always going on about OCing and water cooling and the rest but the pay off always confused me beyond looking at the entire thing like you would a souped-up Honda that some guy is telling you can go so fast it can fly; you appreciate the know-how and tech that goes into making it work that way but confused about the long-term benefits/viability.

Raspberry Pi 4 owners have to overclock or die.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Okay, I keep having an issue and I'm at my wits end here. I have an AMD Zen2 CPU/ CGN GPU and I keep having an odd issue where it will turn off and reboot with no error sometimes, and other times if an AC or some large power draw turns on it will black screen my computer to where I have to manually pull the plug. I'm pretty sure its not a driver issue, so what's broken? I've swapped GPU/RAM/ disk (SSD to NVME), so I'm guessing the MB/CPU/PSU are shot.

Or is this just a "your building is a fire hazard"?

Thoughts on SFF with iGPU ryzen? How's it compared to a 1060?

 

[StopSneeding]

Okay, I keep having an issue and I'm at my wits end here. I have an AMD Zen2 CPU/ CGN GPU and I keep having an odd issue where it will turn off and reboot with no error sometimes, and other times if an AC or some large power draw turns on it will black screen my computer to where I have to manually pull the plug. I'm pretty sure its not a driver issue, so what's broken? I've swapped GPU/RAM/ disk (SSD to NVME), so I'm guessing the MB/CPU/PSU are shot.

Or is this just a "your building is a fire hazard"?

Thoughts on SFF with iGPU ryzen? How's it compared to a 1060?

What type of PSU are you using and how old is it? If you look at voltage rails and put the system under load how do they look (12v, 5v, 3.3v)? You can look at this with HWInfo. Motherboards rarely fail in my experience, and if they do it's because they are DOA and never work to begin with. CPUs also rarely fail when run at acceptable voltages and temps, I don't think I've ever had one go bad.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

12V: 11.484
5V: 4.853
5VSB: 2.790
3.3VL 3.146
It's a ATX Rosewill Photon from 2015/2016
Crashes seem to only happen when I turn on heavy power draw stuff in my room/building like bathroom fan, AC, etc.

 

[StopSneeding]

Tolerance of +/- 5% on voltage rails is generally acceptable. You are on the lower end of that which potentially has to do with the age of the PSU and the quality of the power it provides. Nearing the max of 5%, a slight transient fluctuation in power going to the PSU due to other devices powering on could be pushing your system over the edge. If the 12V rails are dipping below 11.4V for a second it may be producing system instability. The same might be true of the other voltage rails. Only thing to really do in this situation is get a new PSU in my opinion. Curious if anyone else has any input.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Tolerance of +/- 5% on voltage rails is generally acceptable. You are on the lower end of that which potentially has to do with the age of the PSU and the quality of the power it provides. Nearing the max of 5%, a slight transient fluctuation in power going to the PSU due to other devices powering on could be pushing your system over the edge. If the 12V rails are dipping below 11.4V for a second it may be producing system instability. The same might be true of the other voltage rails. Only thing to really do in this situation is get a new PSU in my opinion. Curious if anyone else has any input.

Thanks. I got 11.408 consistently while under moderate load (but not heavy) , so I guess time to get a new one.

Anyone got SFF PCIE GPU suggestions? Wanted a 5700 XT from powercolor but could never find one instock.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Okay, I keep having an issue and I'm at my wits end here. I have an AMD Zen2 CPU/ CGN GPU and I keep having an odd issue where it will turn off and reboot with no error sometimes, and other times if an AC or some large power draw turns on it will black screen my computer to where I have to manually pull the plug. I'm pretty sure its not a driver issue, so what's broken? I've swapped GPU/RAM/ disk (SSD to NVME), so I'm guessing the MB/CPU/PSU are shot.

Or is this just a "your building is a fire hazard"?

Thoughts on SFF with iGPU ryzen? How's it compared to a 1060?

I had a similar issue on my 3800x. System would shut off without reason and reboot as if nothing happened. It turned out to be a memory voltage issue while running my RAM on docp at 3600. I changed something from 1.1v to 1.0v. If your problem persists checking that might be your next step.

 

[Judge Dredd]

After much deliberation and research, I'm torn on my two builds and want your opinions.

1. A basic bitch AM4 build, with either a 5600 or a 5800x3D. Maybe 32gb of RAM since it's cheap. Hopefully this will last me 5-8 years like my current build.

2. An ultra budget build with an over the top PSU. The goal here to would be to upgrade to AM5 after a year or two.

My goal is to have a good VR capable rig when the Valve Deckard releases next year, and have something that is good at emulation. However, new GPUs are coming out later this year, and while AM5 is looking amazing, I don't want the headaches and high prices of being an early adopter.


As I said in another thread, I'm upgrading from a 4690k, a solid CPU that has lasted me a long time. I still like it and it handled everything I've thrown at it. It's only recently it's started to struggle in newer games.

I technically don't need a new computer, I can wait, but it feels like there's always going to be something to wait for. Waiting for GPU prices to fall, waiting for DDR5 prices to fall, waiting for AM5 to release, waiting for AM5 to mature/work out the bugs, waiting for next gen GPUs, etc. It's why I'm considering the ultra budget option because, ignoring parts I can reuse like case and PSU, the total cost divided by 12 months would be less than a netflix subscription.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Thanks. I got 11.408 consistently while under moderate load (but not heavy) , so I guess time to get a new one.

Anyone got SFF PCIE GPU suggestions? Wanted a 5700 XT from powercolor but could never find one instock.

If it tends to happen when you start something that draws a lot of power it could be caused by a voltage dip. You could try to find out which circuit(don't know the name in english) everything is connected to and place the computer or the AC on outlets at separate circuits. Do you still have the manual with diagrams for how your home is wired? No? Then go to the fusebox and flip some switches/pull fuses, one by one, and see which outlets are affected. You would want AC/microwave on one fuse/circuit, computer and screens on another. Buy a long fucking extension cord if necessary.

The Ryzen APU is not near a 1060 yet, new games are still playable but when I looked into this a month or so ago it looked like there were driver issues not seen on their discrete cards, or on Nvidia or an Intel iGPU.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

After much deliberation and research, I'm torn on my two builds and want your opinions.

1. A basic bitch AM4 build, with either a 5600 or a 5800x3D. Maybe 32gb of RAM since it's cheap. Hopefully this will last me 5-8 years like my current build.

2. An ultra budget build with an over the top PSU. The goal here to would be to upgrade to AM5 after a year or two.

My goal is to have a good VR capable rig when the Valve Deckard releases next year, and have something that is good at emulation. However, new GPUs are coming out later this year, and while AM5 is looking amazing, I don't want the headaches and high prices of being an early adopter.


As I said in another thread, I'm upgrading from a 4690k, a solid CPU that has lasted me a long time. I still like it and it handled everything I've thrown at it. It's only recently it's started to struggle in newer games.

I technically don't need a new computer, I can wait, but it feels like there's always going to be something to wait for. Waiting for GPU prices to fall, waiting for DDR5 prices to fall, waiting for AM5 to release, waiting for AM5 to mature/work out the bugs, waiting for next gen GPUs, etc. It's why I'm considering the ultra budget option because, ignoring parts I can reuse like case and PSU, the total cost divided by 12 months would be less than a netflix subscription.

If you can find a cheap ass AM4 motherboard, maybe go for the ultra budget option. That's where a lot of the cost that you have to throw away could be. I feel like you would end up going for the 5600 in that scenario anyway, unless you really want to save $50 and go for a Ryzen 3 4100. Even that should outperform the 4690K because of hyperthreading and somewhat higher single-thread/clocks. You would put your old GPU in it?

If you do a solid AM4 build instead, a 5600 or 5800X3D might be sufficient for VR later. Shouldn't it be more GPU than CPU intensive?

I've never heard of Valve Deckard until now. A quick search makes it sound like it will be standalone, not just wireless. Do you need a gaming PC for it?

 

[StopSneeding]

After much deliberation and research, I'm torn on my two builds and want your opinions.

1. A basic bitch AM4 build, with either a 5600 or a 5800x3D. Maybe 32gb of RAM since it's cheap. Hopefully this will last me 5-8 years like my current build.

2. An ultra budget build with an over the top PSU. The goal here to would be to upgrade to AM5 after a year or two.

My goal is to have a good VR capable rig when the Valve Deckard releases next year, and have something that is good at emulation. However, new GPUs are coming out later this year, and while AM5 is looking amazing, I don't want the headaches and high prices of being an early adopter.


As I said in another thread, I'm upgrading from a 4690k, a solid CPU that has lasted me a long time. I still like it and it handled everything I've thrown at it. It's only recently it's started to struggle in newer games.

I technically don't need a new computer, I can wait, but it feels like there's always going to be something to wait for. Waiting for GPU prices to fall, waiting for DDR5 prices to fall, waiting for AM5 to release, waiting for AM5 to mature/work out the bugs, waiting for next gen GPUs, etc. It's why I'm considering the ultra budget option because, ignoring parts I can reuse like case and PSU, the total cost divided by 12 months would be less than a netflix subscription.

Hey there, can you list your current full system specs to determine what you are working with? I was going to go with a AM4 build, however Intel has the better price:performance ratio for gaming right now. If you are strictly gaming and not doing seriously intensive workloads which would benefit for more cores, I recommend going with Alder Lake. The i5-12400 is a great CPU and is well priced. If you are looking for a bit more power the value of the 12600(k) is excellent also if you like overclocking/tweaking. This path is more expensive, but it will get you through a few years while DDR5 matures.

If you want to go AMD, the 5600 is currently $165 ish and an MSI B550-M PRO is about $100 - $115. With either board I recommend 16gb to 32gb in 2 sticks of 3200 to 3600mhz. The DDR4 is around $70 for 16gb and $120-130. Right now, I cannot recommend spending so much for DDR5 as it is very immature. It will take a while for DDR5 to become worth it as the platforms supporting it mature. I would consider going Ryzen 5XXX or Alder Lake and waiting ~2 years and determine if you want to go for DDR5.

Also consider the cost of a CPU cooler. Both Ryzen 5 series and Alder Lake run very hot. I recommend an AIO cooler for them as they put out so much heat. A six core Alder lake or 6-8 core Ryzen will serve you very well. Either path is a good decision, just depends on what you're using it for to get best price-to-performance value.