Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


  • Total voters
    2,929
It's shitty fujo writing when it boils down to it in all honesty.
Given that Vizzy is a tumblr girl, it's sadly not shocking that things went this route, even though I was holding out hope for it being different.

The "Stolitz" arc so far has checked all examples of "fujoshi writing" that was popular back when being a fujo was just fetishization and not the "gay rep" they hide behind.

Classic plot would include:

  1. Forced marriage to a (yuck) woman.
  2. Girl is a huge bitchy brat who absolutely hates Bottom's love interest, she is also abusive towards Bottom and has no character outside of "bitch"
  3. Top is a bad boy and Bottom is an upstanding citizen who gets corrupted by him
  4. Top often times has near rape-y scenes of talking Bottom into shit
  5. Childhood friends forced to separate
  6. Bottom is a "pure bean"
  7. Bottom gets turned into a sex crazed lunatic who begs for it thanks to Top
  8. Top is uncaring and only likes Bottom to purely mess with him because he knows he can
I'm sorry for referring to the guys in the relationship as bottom/top but that's how their personalities are always displayed and it's even in HB.

These all are popular tropes that were very prevalent back in the 201+ internet era and probably are still around today, they were classic fujo topics used in their story to make their "gay babies" be together and make any contesting ship character, mostly girls, seem to be a horrible person for no reason other than she got in the way of their ship.
There's definitely more tropes, but this is all I can really recall from my time accidentally stumbling into one of those brain numbing writings. I could have sworn there was a post on tumblr, Amino, or another site talking about shitty bl tropes, but sadly I can't find it now, but it's kinda concerning that the new Helluva Boss plot checked a good amount off within the first episode, turning a somewhat complex relationship into a tumblrgrade yaoi.
Okay, but why would they NEED to?

This makes sense for fanfiction, where fujos need a reason to render canon ships non-canon, but for HB it's their own damn story. If all they wanted was to make the characters gay together, wouldn't they just DO that?

That's why you watch this show with headphones mate...
Wha'eva I do wha' I wan'.
 
I'm not a fan of Stolas and Blitzo knowing each other as kids either, it's a fanfiction-tier cliché - especially since Stolas fell in love at first sight - that only got worsened by Stolas and Stella's arranged marriage and Stolas blatantly not wanting any part of it. Honestly my least favorite aspect of the episode. I was more interested in how Blitzo and Fizz were as kids and their relationship in general, but I guess that'll be coming later.

And frankly you're not wrong, this was very much a "feel bad for Stolas" episode. That's not to say I don't think it succeeded, because it did (at least for me), but I'd prefer if there was a teensy bit less bias to show him as multi-faceted rather than a straight-up victim.

Re: the kid actors: I wasn't expecting it, but they were surprisingly good.
I guess maybe that's why I have a problem with the episode. It does come off as someone's fanfiction. It just felt like everyone was slightly out of character, especially Stella for some reason. Like I know she's supposed to be an angry bitch based off first season, but she felt like a different type of bitch? I don't know if I can exactly explain why. It could be because I had my own head-canon of her based off what I saw.
It's shitty fujo writing when it boils down to it in all honesty.
Given that Vizzy is a tumblr girl, it's sadly not shocking that things went this route, even though I was holding out hope for it being different.

The "Stolitz" arc so far has checked all examples of "fujoshi writing" that was popular back when being a fujo was just fetishization and not the "gay rep" they hide behind.

Classic plot would include:

  1. Forced marriage to a (yuck) woman.
  2. Girl is a huge bitchy brat who absolutely hates Bottom's love interest, she is also abusive towards Bottom and has no character outside of "bitch"
  3. Top is a bad boy and Bottom is an upstanding citizen who gets corrupted by him
  4. Top often times has near rape-y scenes of talking Bottom into shit
  5. Childhood friends forced to separate
  6. Bottom is a "pure bean"
  7. Bottom gets turned into a sex crazed lunatic who begs for it thanks to Top
  8. Top is uncaring and only likes Bottom to purely mess with him because he knows he can
I'm sorry for referring to the guys in the relationship as bottom/top but that's how their personalities are always displayed and it's even in HB.

These all are popular tropes that were very prevalent back in the 201+ internet era and probably are still around today, they were classic fujo topics used in their story to make their "gay babies" be together and make any contesting ship character, mostly girls, seem to be a horrible person for no reason other than she got in the way of their ship.
There's definitely more tropes, but this is all I can really recall from my time accidentally stumbling into one of those brain numbing writings. I could have sworn there was a post on tumblr, Amino, or another site talking about shitty bl tropes, but sadly I can't find it now, but it's kinda concerning that the new Helluva Boss plot checked a good amount off within the first episode, turning a somewhat complex relationship into a tumblrgrade yaoi.
I never noticed it that way till you pointed those tropes out, and now that you did I really dislike the episode even more.
That’s fair. Could just meant to be a low point for him. He was essentially a horny teenager at the beginning because he was finally able to fill express himself after essentially being sexually repressed his whole life. Now he’s hitting the “oh damn, I can’t just be a sex crazed horndog all the time now…” point.

I’m willing to bet that flashback but with Blitz saying he’d hire Stolas to work for him is foreshadowing. If Stolas does get his rank and social status revoked, I could see him trying to get a job at IMP. And since he’s still have knowledge on interdimensional travel would give him a reason to be able to work there, while changing the relationship dynamics and all.

Also, I can’t really hate on Vizie for maybe/maybe not pushing the gay pairing when she has one of the few really positive depictions of a straight couple in media these days.

It’s also only one episode of the season. Season 1 had plenty of assassination hijinks.
I guess I can see it from that point of view. Maybe I'm just getting tired of the focus being on the drama instead of the comedy, or it could be that it feels like it's going way to fast and trying to hit all of the emotional beats right away. Maybe we could have had one episode focus on the childhood (especially Blitzo's since his was much more interesting than Stolas'), one focused on the marriage in the past, or just bits sprinkled throughout the season.
And I don't want to just sound like "bad episode, no likey" because there were some parts I like. The voice acting was good, most of the animation felt right, Paimon was actually hilarious, and the song, even if the singing wasn't the best, was nice. Hell, even the argument at the end felt natural. And as you said, this is just the first episode of the season. Who knows what else is to come.
It was already strongly implied Blitzo stole the book in the first episode where we saw Stolas.
Yeah, I forgot about that happening in the pilot. It's been a while since I seen it.
 
  1. Forced marriage to a (yuck) woman.
  2. Girl is a huge bitchy brat who absolutely hates Bottom's love interest, she is also abusive towards Bottom and has no character outside of "bitch"
  3. Top is a bad boy and Bottom is an upstanding citizen who gets corrupted by him
  4. Top often times has near rape-y scenes of talking Bottom into shit
  5. Childhood friends forced to separate
  6. Bottom is a "pure bean"
  7. Bottom gets turned into a sex crazed lunatic who begs for it thanks to Top
  8. Top is uncaring and only likes Bottom to purely mess with him because he knows he can
How many books are out there where the guy is a cold, closed-off, abusive, rapey 'bad boy' and the gal is a naïve, ditzy, clumsy airhead who thinks she'll be his ~one and only~ to the point of excusing and romanticizing everything he does? How many period pieces follow a nobleman in an arranged marriage who lusts over a peasant girl? How many dating sims have a married love interest that presents his wife as a MegaBitch and the player character as an absolute angel?

It's not a uniquely gay-couple/fujobait-centric issue, these tropes are prominent across the board in romance - in large part because romance is aimed mainly at women and these dynamics serve as female power fantasies. Hazbin and Helluva are written by a woman and have a big female fanbase, and has been leaning into the romance subplots hard - no shit these tropes'll pop up.

TL;DR Eventually the subplot will be resolved and the relationship will either simmer into background decoration like Millie and Moxxie or blow up in their faces. Till then, welcome to just about every romance story ever. Good luck finding anything that avoids 'em all.

On the episode itself, yeah, using actual child VAs was an entirely unexpected choice and made the childhood segments drag on quite a bit.
Fuckin hated Blitz's dad's voice, they tried for the high-pitched country hick stereotype, but they needed to pitchshift it down a bit to avoid the grating chipmunk effect.
I actually like that Stella's an unapologetic bitch - it's an archetype that I haven't seen played straight a lot recently, there's always some attempt at justifying their actions. Stella's a gossipy, entitled noblewoman who only cares about her status, her reputation - to the point where she'd rather hire an assassin to kill Stolas than be known as the woman he left for an Imp. Genuinely ruthless, cutthroat, abusive female characters whose actions aren't downplayed or excused, but embraced aren't exactly common in modern media.
I don't consider cheating in an arranged marriage to be the same thing as cheating in a regular marriage - it's not a bond of love and trust, but of duty and status. Neither party chose the other, and compatibility isn't a factor, just pump out an heir for king and country so two noble families become one. It's a shit hand to be dealt, and there's a reason there are so many half-noble bastards out there.
So yeah.
The romance tropes of 'nobleman unfamiliar with genuine affection falls for the first non-noble that fakes it semi-convincingly', 'I can fix him', and the ever-present 'all this could have been avoided if the two parties fuCKING COMMUNICATED' strike again.
 
How many books are out there where the guy is a cold, closed-off, abusive, rapey 'bad boy' and the gal is a naïve, ditzy, clumsy airhead who thinks she'll be his ~one and only~ to the point of excusing and romanticizing everything he does? How many period pieces follow a nobleman in an arranged marriage who lusts over a peasant girl? How many dating sims have a married love interest that presents his wife as a MegaBitch and the player character as an absolute angel?

It's not a uniquely gay-couple/fujobait-centric issue, these tropes are prominent across the board in romance - in large part because romance is aimed mainly at women and these dynamics serve as female power fantasies. Hazbin and Helluva are written by a woman and have a big female fanbase, and has been leaning into the romance subplots hard - no shit these tropes'll pop up.

TL;DR Eventually the subplot will be resolved and the relationship will either simmer into background decoration like Millie and Moxxie or blow up in their faces. Till then, welcome to just about every romance story ever. Good luck finding anything that avoids 'em all.

On the episode itself, yeah, using actual child VAs was an entirely unexpected choice and made the childhood segments drag on quite a bit.
Fuckin hated Blitz's dad's voice, they tried for the high-pitched country hick stereotype, but they needed to pitchshift it down a bit to avoid the grating chipmunk effect.
I actually like that Stella's an unapologetic bitch - it's an archetype that I haven't seen played straight a lot recently, there's always some attempt at justifying their actions. Stella's a gossipy, entitled noblewoman who only cares about her status, her reputation - to the point where she'd rather hire an assassin to kill Stolas than be known as the woman he left for an Imp. Genuinely ruthless, cutthroat, abusive female characters whose actions aren't downplayed or excused, but embraced aren't exactly common in modern media.
I don't consider cheating in an arranged marriage to be the same thing as cheating in a regular marriage - it's not a bond of love and trust, but of duty and status. Neither party chose the other, and compatibility isn't a factor, just pump out an heir for king and country so two noble families become one. It's a shit hand to be dealt, and there's a reason there are so many half-noble bastards out there.
So yeah.
The romance tropes of 'nobleman unfamiliar with genuine affection falls for the first non-noble that fakes it semi-convincingly', 'I can fix him', and the ever-present 'all this could have been avoided if the two parties fuCKING COMMUNICATED' strike again.
It's personally why I always thought the relationships should have stayed more comedic instead of serious. Felt less stupid this way.
 
I actually like that Stella's an unapologetic bitch - it's an archetype that I haven't seen played straight a lot recently, there's always some attempt at justifying their actions. Stella's a gossipy, entitled noblewoman who only cares about her status, her reputation - to the point where she'd rather hire an assassin to kill Stolas than be known as the woman he left for an Imp.
If you think about her as a royal basically forced into an arranged marriage and not just that with a fag, and on top of that one who prefers an Imp to her, and that just to act as a broodmare for a substitute heir, is it really that unrealistic that she'd hate his guts?

I honestly don't mind her at all as an absolute bitch, I think it could be improved by making her more Cruella de Ville than just a one-note villain, but maybe she actually should just be an absolute bitch. Just a better one.
 
I guess that's something to realize; we don't know Stella's side of the story yet, only Stolas'.
I always think back to the second episode of the first season, how Octavia doesn't really hold any ill-feelings towards both her parents. She even said there was a time where her parents didn't hate each other. Again, that could be that Stolas just really hid all that abuse really well from Octavia, but I doubt that. Stella has been shown to be very vocal with her anger, so if she truly hated Stolas to begin with, why would Octavia not take note at that from the beginning?
If it's not that, it at least shows that Stella didn't yell in front of her daughter in the beginning. Stella showed some care towards her daughter then, as just like Stolas, she was trying to keep her daughter from knowing the truth between them.
And then I also think about their family picture at Loo Loo Land...if they didn't tolerate each other then, they at least acted like it.
Stella always seemed like to me someone who kept her poise out in public, but when she was home, all hell broke loose. I thought she would be the one to focus on the royal and public duties while Stolas would be more a stay at home dad. This would make sense for why Octavia has more pics of him with her instead of mom since she would be out and busy with work, yet still see her as her mom. This could also explain why we see Stolas go to comfort Octavia when she has a nightmare as Stella may just be exhausted from work. Her trying to keep everything together in public would explain why she's always so snappy at home. She knows that everything is not fine, but because she has to keep up reputation of the family name, she just has to go along with it. This wouldn't excuse her behavior at all, but it would give some sort of explanation.
Another thing I just noticed, but when she goes on emasculating her husband, she states that Stolas' just "lies there staring at the wall, while she has to do all the work". In her eyes, could she feel like she's doing all the work while he's doing nothing? It's possible.
Again this could all be some hopeful sperging on my part, but it just seems to me there has to be more than meets the eye.
 
All this show needed to do was amuse me for 23 minutes or so.

It did.

Now there just needs to not be so long in between episodes that everyone makes up their own stories/backstories (headcanon, if you will) and then gets mad about the way the show goes.
 
And then I also think about their family picture at Loo Loo Land...if they didn't tolerate each other then, they at least acted like it.
When they hated each other but still loved their daughter enough to pretend.
7bed4cfd77152be4c70670fdaa5d18a2.png
 
Why is Stella being a bitch bad? I’m honestly asking.
I would like it to have another dimension to it. Something more than bitch be bad so gay boys should be gay boys together.

I'm okay with her being evil. I'd just like to see more from her perspective. If you look at it objectively she has as much reason to be dissatisfied and pissed off as Stolas.
 
I'm less mad that he decided to cheat and more mad that he essentially became such a wet blanket.
But then again, it's not like I came for the show to see horny demons have relationship issues; I came for the what I thought would be hilarious adventures of a demon assanation business-group.
I think what would've made Stolas more balanced is if he was shown more cowardly. Like portray moments where he should've/maybe even could've stood up to Stella and his dad but didn't cuz he likes his comfy status quo living and doesn't like conflict.

Like maybe confronting his dad about being gay and chickening out (not that he'd ever get out of the marriage either way). Maybe having multiple opportunities to divorce but Stolas was too scared.

Also yeah them meeting as kids is kinda dumb lol. I think they only did that to justify not having stolas immediately kick blitz out of his house.
 
Why is Stella being a bitch bad? I’m honestly asking. Because every time she does something shitty, there’s always people going “okay, but how did Stolas make her do this?”
I'm gonna drum on the nuance drum again, but she does feel really one-dimensional in this episode. Granted, she's dissatisfied and bitchy, and Stolas is a doormat, but even from shitty marriages I've seen, they still at least somewhat respect each other. If you could redo the party scene, you could have it be where they're both waking up, disinterested in each other's company, but she isn't an outright cunt about everything, more just distant. Later on, she has a little too much wine and starts laughing hard and getting real friendly with some other demons, Stolas overhears her talking shit and lamenting her being forced into it. Stolas, feeling bitter about it, despite trying his best, demands the bottles of absinthe and retreats to his room, where he finds Blitzo attempting to rob him. Being drunk off his ass, he sees it as one of his servants that snuck in, and the scene goes on like normal.

Don't get me wrong, I like the episode, but if you're going for tugging at the heartstrings you should make both sides more nuanced. It makes it more interesting, people relate to it better.
 
I'm gonna drum on the nuance drum again, but she does feel really one-dimensional in this episode. Granted, she's dissatisfied and bitchy, and Stolas is a doormat, but even from shitty marriages I've seen, they still at least somewhat respect each other. If you could redo the party scene, you could have it be where they're both waking up, disinterested in each other's company, but she isn't an outright cunt about everything, more just distant. Later on, she has a little too much wine and starts laughing hard and getting real friendly with some other demons, Stolas overhears her talking shit and lamenting her being forced into it. Stolas, feeling bitter about it, despite trying his best, demands the bottles of absinthe and retreats to his room, where he finds Blitzo attempting to rob him. Being drunk off his ass, he sees it as one of his servants that snuck in, and the scene goes on like normal.

Don't get me wrong, I like the episode, but if you're going for tugging at the heartstrings you should make both sides more nuanced. It makes it more interesting, people relate to it better.
That scene really made my eyes roll. It almost felt like I was watching a parody but it was played off seriously.
It also ruined the impact of the previous episode in my opinion (and I didn't even really like that episode either to begin with.)
 
Also yeah them meeting as kids is kinda dumb lol. I think they only did that to justify not having stolas immediately kick blitz out of his house.
Is it really, though? He would suddenly get into rough trade as an adult?

He got into it when, like Chris-Chan, his parents tried to find a companion for him, and that would be one of the purchased kind.
disinterested
Also please quit using "disinterested" as a synonym for "uninterested." The connotations are completely different. "Disinterested" is much the same as "impartial." It's actually a good thing. It's what you want in a judge.

Quit misusing this word. Please.
 
Also please quit using "disinterested" as a synonym for "uninterested." The connotations are completely different. "Disinterested" is much the same as "impartial." It's actually a good thing. It's what you want in a judge.

Quit misusing this word. Please.
Disinterested means not having interest in something. She, in this case, would not be interested in interacting with him in the morning. Same with him. I'm not sure how I'm misusing the word, here.
 
How old are all you dudes obsessing about and probably jacking off to this cartoon made for bisexual furry teenagers? I thought this was the bully trans people into the 41% badass forum. Are you pedophiles?
You have a pink triangle, therefore your opinion is utterly worthless much like your existence.
 
Back