Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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I really liked Addict compared to poison. Especially the scene where he is flashing back to being sad in bed, at first I thought it was a flashback to his death from ODing. Also explicit references to his death and addiction ("despite having overdosed and ending up comatose") and not metaphorical like calling an addiction, sex workers lifestyle etc. "poison".
 
So is Viv a good artist in the technical sense? Does she have formal training?
Yes. She graduated from the School of Visual Arts with a BFA in Animation. There were rumors from people that said they went to college with her that she never took the critique she got from there, but these are rumors so I don't know if they are true or not.

She is honestly a good animator, especially with hand-drawn animation as that in itself is a dying craft. But her character designs, settings, props, and narrative could really use some more work on. Which kind if makes sense, since they don't usually teach that stuff in animation.
 
The second one was more recent with another professor. I showed him a couple of character designs for the assignment I was working on and he told me to desaturate the colors more. He said that you don't want the audience's retinas to burn out and that "this isn't Hazbin Hotel".
I can scarcely imagine the hell of needing to stay current on contemporary animation in this day and age so you can understand the things your animation students are talking about.
 
Tbh, I didnt think Addict was that great for the show either. A fine enough music video as a little side thing, a little teaser of sorts, but I think inside the show itself it wouldn't have worked. Good as a fansong, and should stay as an animated fansong. However, with addict already existing as an animated!!! official side thing, with MILLIONS of views, poison isnt even telling us anything we dont already know, in a way worse way too. Its a fine dance song, but its not really filling any purpose.

HH and HB are supposed to be musical cartoons, are they not? Parry Gripps music is very cartoony, and hes an experienced almost 60 yo musician who was in his first band over 30 years ago. His songs match the energy I would expect of a cartoon, so no wonder they actually worked pretty well. Fun, catchy, quick paced is his style.

Sam Haft is best known for being half of The Living Tombstone, a duo thats best known for making remixes, and fansongs for fnaf and some other fandoms. But it apparently started out as a solo project in 2011 by the other dude who isnt sam haft, and haft only joined around 2017. The other dude is currently the producer and composer, haft the singer mainly and a songwriter. Haft has also been an actor, director and writer in some movies and shorts, apparently. The genre theyre known for is electro rock. Their songs also arent very comedic either despite being mainly fansongs. Just listen to My Ordinary Life, the song that gave him platinum for an example of their usual style.
Before this he was apparently part of some comedic music group thats so insignificant barely any info exists about it.

... so it sounds to me this is his first job actually making full songs not as part of a group for anything, at least on a serious level. And his non-HB/HH music is mostly electro-rock stuff that sounds extremely distant from musical theatre. The few non-HB songs he has on his personal artist page are also regular edm stuff. Good for him I guess, I dont think hes a bad musician and a few of his songs for the show are good, but why viv got a dude whos been a professional musician for like 2 years at that point, as part of a group that was already pretty big before he even joined, as the main dude for her cartoon musical is a mystery.

It also makes it suck extra hard that many HH voice actors were given the boot for bigger names, meanwhile this relatively inexperienced dude is basically put in charge of the music. Again, good for him ig, but kinda stinky that other people from the crew were not given similar opportunities.

Granted, can't blame him too much to begin with, for making good musical songs for current HB is a very large challange considering they're dependent on the plot and the characters, who are shit.
 
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Oh there were definitely modern cartoons that started comedic/action and took a turn for darkness and/or drama hard, especially post gravity falls. Adventure time is the most obvious one, owl house, amphibia, other gravity falls clones, Korra (compared to aang), Star vs Evil (huge offender), Steven universe, etc.

The difference is that those shows at least built something before they started shifting focus, while HB barely setup the groundwork and retconned the little it did, with viv revealing the pilot isnt canon anymore. You know shit is bad when fans considers the only episode that lives up to the title (cherub) to be "filler" since it's not about twinks being sad or traumatized.
I fucking loved Gravity Falls back in the day, but holy shit, I can't deny it's probably directly responsible for every following animated series thinking it can be the next big "lore" show before they ditch the premise to focus on relationship angst.
Sounds kinda familiar.
At least Gravity Falls had family angst in addition to "holy shit, this dream demon wants to kill us all" angst.
 
I fucking loved Gravity Falls back in the day, but holy shit, I can't deny it's probably directly responsible for every following animated series thinking it can be the next big "lore" show before they ditch the premise to focus on relationship angst.
Sounds kinda familiar.
At least Gravity Falls had family angst in addition to "holy shit, this dream demon wants to kill us all" angst.
It's one of those "'We wanna be like [thing]!', only for said thing to completely misunderstand why [thing] worked in the first place" type of deals. I'd say "plot-based comedies" were one of the general trends of 2010s cartoons, and it technically started with Adventure Time. I'd say Gravity Falls perfected the formula, and feel that 2 Seasons / 40 total episodes was just the right amount it needed to tell its story in full.

Compare that to Steven Universe. Steven had 5 seasons, the first of which was over twice as long as the following when it was still a "Monster of the week" show. Then after Jailbreak, the show tried to shift into being plot/lore-based like GF and AT, except it tried to spread its lore waaay out between dozens of filler episodes. Then they made a movie, then they made an entire epilogue series/season. Honestly, the show could've just been 3 or 4 seasons if they cut down a lot of the filler and I and maybe others would've been fine with it.

Adventure Time suffered from the same problem. The show lasted a lot longer than it probably should've, and by the time the show ended properly, many of the people who watched during the earlier seasons had jumped ship.

Come to think of it, HB's insistence of prioritizing character relationships over the show's premise or overall plot can be traced back to SU and its filler episodes about general Beach City happenings. Except now SpindleHorse doesn't have CN money. They don't have the time or budget to make a bunch of episodes that cover both bases, so they had to pick one of the two. And as luck would have it, they decided to just make the series nothing but relationship filler. Go figure.
 
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courtesy of @s3tok41b4 on Twatter, a redesign of the Hazbin crew
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my God, they actually look like....fantastical creatures from Hell, and not Hot Topic Tumblr Sexyman rejects?!
I don't know why but this reminds me of Drawn Together. Angel deserves no changes tbh.

For the next music video they should have Angel singing this instead.
 
Viv has liked a decent amount of white knight tweets that are fairly blatantly aimed at the recent payment allegation.
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Other than that, the animation reviewer Rebeltaxi has revealed that he's seen the first 5 episodes of Hazbin and announced that the review embargo lifts on the 11th.
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As I said earlier in the thread, even though I don't trust mainstream reviewers in the slightest, having a bunch of diversity crap in your product for glowing scores isn't nearly as foolproof as it was a couple years ago, so place your bets on the RT and Metacritic score. Predicted RT score: 50s-70s.
 
This writing style is very typical for tumblr girls, they're just now reaching the age where some of them can lead big projects like this. My dear homestuck may not have been a cartoon, but it started it very whacky, and when the author emotionally checked out and hired a bunch of tumblr chicks to finish it for him, it suddenly became very serious relationship drama with some attempts at humor. Looking at Owl House, you can probably expect to see more and more of this in mainstream animation, as severe shipping becomes less and less niche.
Oh there were definitely modern cartoons that started comedic/action and took a turn for darkness and/or drama hard, especially post gravity falls. Adventure time is the most obvious one, owl house, amphibia, other gravity falls clones, Korra (compared to aang), Star vs Evil (huge offender), Steven universe, etc.
Sorry, modern popular cartoons completely passed my mind since, unlike every other internet denizen, I pretty much haven't watched any televised cartoon since the original run of The Clone Wars because I'm an adult who instead watches vtubers and maybe an anime now and then. I guess it's then just remarkable in this aspect how quickly HB transitions from comedy to drama.

Speaking of which, now 3 episodes into season 2, and it definitely looks like it's at the point in which I describe the show as being a drama foremost, ramped up compared to even the latter part of season 1. I've now seen for myself the full transformation of Stolas into innocent sadboi (while heaping all the villainy onto Stella) that has people here annoyed so much. Now with almost the entire main cast (except Millie) being fashioned into tragic, crying victims, a couple of thoughts have occurred to me that I doubt have been mentioned here before:

First, it's becoming peculiar how VIv wants so hard for the audience to sympathize with demons from Hell. I place emphasis there because this setting is meant to be the Christian Hell, the place of eternal damnation for sinners rejected from Heaven. Now story sympathetic protagonists of some sort of demonic origin are nothing new, but when I think about it, I'm realizing that such stories seem to have some abstraction from Christian Hell to become more palpable. There's two main ways of doing this that come to mind. One is by having the afterlife be an all-encompassing neutral zone rather than a place of pure damnation and evil, like the underworld of Greek mythology as portrayed in the popular video game Hades. Another example is the main Netherworld setting of the JRPG series Disgaea. The other is by having demons share no connection with afterlife or even theology, but rather originating from some fantasy dark world that is alternative to our own, a premise that seems particularly popular with Japanese media with a love for "demon lords", including the Devil May Cry series. Even ghost-themed stories like Ghostbusters and Casper are often abstracted enough from Christianity to have room for good, sympathetic spirits. Now a counterexample to this whole notion I'm presenting here is Helltaker, but it seems to me from the outside that it has practically no story, completely unserious otherwise, and is only popular for its character designs. Point of all this being that I'm getting the impression of Viv through her own work of how scoffing she may be towards the Christian concept of Hell, suggesting of what's to come for Hazbin.

Second, while there certainly is a lack of focus on the main cast's business as hitmen against humans, it remains as they're business that they are enthusiastically dedicated to, which ought to make them villain protagonists especially since they're maliciously encroaching on the human world while their fellow demons apparently ordinarily do not. Now villain protagonists in cartoons can be quite popular with examples such as Invader Zim, Pinky and the Brain, and even Ed, Edd n Eddy. A common trait among these shows, however, is that the protagonists often face comeuppance for the villainy they strive for. In contrast, the HB cast appear to be constantly emerging victorious in their conflicts, frequently with violent glee. You'd think that Blitzo especially would be a karmic punching bag as the standout asshole, but nah, in the end he gets fashioned as a cool guy instead. I wonder if the oft-mentioned absence of hitjobs in the show is a conscious effort by Viv to turn a blind eye to the despicable business of IMP to pass them off as heroes to the audience.

On a final note, I was joking before about the unusual frequency of gay dudes in the show, but holy shit I was still surprised by the introduction of even more, including Moxxie getting promoted from mere effeminate wimp. I'll at least give Viv credit for going against the seemingly usual handling of "bisexual" characters (when they're not outright sex freaks) to mean that they settle into a gay relationship after a straight one.
 
Viv has liked a decent amount of white knight tweets that are fairly blatantly aimed at the recent payment allegation.
It's ironic cause these people will also block when they can't make a good comeback argument. Maybe you should hold up a mirror.

Anyway, Hazbin Hotel is having a free premiere screening today in New York.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfr4euN-L7j2hIodT-SUNnjLuEzOksMcEgJ3hhkdcITeaOHVg/viewform
Expect some leaks pretty soon.
 
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What? Are they broadcasting the first episode on that Times Square jumbotron or something?
From /co/, apparently the picture is from Twitter.
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On that topic I'm curious of just how expensive an early screening of a TV show at Times Square would be, Amazon has barely fucking advertised this thing at all even on their own platform.
 
>One of the official drinks at the premiere is named after a ship
>It's not even the supposed main character ship.
They're really not even trying to hide the fact that Husk and Angel's relationship is going to get at least twice as much screentime as Charlie and Vaggie's are they? I expected them to hijack the show, but I at least thought they'd hide it.
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