Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[didelphigina]

By Viv's admission, when HB's pilot came out Stolas was planned to be an antagonist, by S1 that changed to Stolitz clearly going to be a thing, but a Goetia prince fucking an Imp while giving them an extremely powerful magical grimoire wasn't going to be taken lightly, and importantly was also going to be a slow burn, finally people have described the train wreck that is S2 Stolas and Stolitz better than I could.

Hah, yep. Still waiting for Stolas to actually experience consequences for once in the show. Waiting for him to get chastised by the entire Goetia bloodline...

But Viv won't allow that. I know she won't. I know once that Blood Moon ball episode comes out, the rest of the Goetia's gonna exist for one episode to add in some angst and then are forgotten because the plot doesn't demand them anymore and Stolas still learns nothing.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

You think the supposed "progressives" would have a problem with this. I remember in Steven Universe when it was revealed that Rose Quartz was actually Pink Diamond, and everybody was talking about how problematic the relationship was between her and Pearl, equating to a slave falling in love with their master.

I mean... that was the point, wasn't it? Rose only wanted Pearl to be free, but Pearl was physically incapable of breaking the programming. It was SUPPOSED to be fucked up.

 

[Trollblade69]

Been on a TVTropes binge. Somebody threw out the Draco In Leather Pants articles on Blitzo and Stolas.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Apparently I came across two things that are alleged about Helluva Boss:

- The show is planned for only 4 seasons long

- Viv has written the episodes for season 2 years in advance

Been on a TVTropes binge. Somebody threw out the Draco In Leather Pants articles on Blitzo and Stolas.

Mind showing screencaps, I don't want to get a TVTropes account to see.

 

[Trollblade69]

Mind showing screencaps, I don't want to get a TVTropes account to see.

Too big to screencap on my phone, but I can do this:

• Blitzo is treated amongst the fandom as being a misunderstood Woobie simply because he had a rough childhood, is loved by no one, and desires to be a good father to Loona. These massively overlook the fact that Blitzo is a Byronic Hero whose abrasiveness and unwillingness to ever open up or connect to anybody are exactly why he's in the situation he's in, despised by his favorite employee Moxxie (at least in the non-canon pilot. He and Moxxie seem to be on good terms in the show proper, at least relative to everyone else Blitzo knows), in a tryst with a lover he's stringing along and having a list of enemies a mile long. They also overlook that fact that it's implied that Blitzo adopted Loona as a way of finding someone to reciprocate affection unto him despite doing nothing to deserve it. "Seeing Stars" basically outright confirmed this viewpoint, showcasing how Blitzo is so delusionally protective of Loona that he has a panic attack over some random dog that reminded him of the day he adopted Loona and starts massacring innocent strangers. The show does portray possibilities of Blitzo being able to mend these relationships and get his life in order in the future, but acting like he is purely a victim of circumstance is ridiculous given the situation.
• A lot of fans seem to conveniently forget how Stolas treated Blitzo in the first six episodes. Stolas does have feelings for Blitzo, who does have feelings for Stolas but due to his own deep-seated issues pushes Stolas away as he did so many others, telling himself he's just using Stolas to gain access to his magic book which lets him open portals to the human world. However, unlike every past instance where Blitzo has done this, Stolas has given him every reason to think there's nothing between them other than transactional sex. Stolas's behavior towards him in public is extremely inappropriate, outright referring to him as a "plaything" in "Truth Seekers". Stolas also roped him into having sex once a month in exchange for letting Blitzo keep the book he needs to run his business while Blitzo was being shot at and thus not in a position to decline or even negotiate. For some reason, people tend to think the toxicity in their relationship is coming entirely from Blitzo's end and that Stolas has done everything he could to be a good boyfriend. And then there's the matter of Stolas's relationship to his daughter, Octavia. People tend to say that Stolas loves his daughter and that in and of itself makes him a good father. While he does love her very much he's largely oblivious to how upset Octavia is by her the deterioration of her parents's marriage caused by Stolas sleeping with Blitzo. When Octavia first started showing signs of resentment towards Stolas, Stolas suggested going to a theme park for little kids to take her mind off things. He then decided to hire Blitzo, who anyone with half a brain should know is the absolute last person that should be invited, as hired security which is pretty much just a thinly-veiled excuse to hit on him and have his fantasies of Blitzo rescuing him fulfilled. And he was completely oblivious to the fact that this was doing the opposite of making Octavia feel better until she ran off and he found her crying by herself in an empty ride. Yeah. Father and Boyfriend of the year material for sure.

 

[Viper the rappah]

Sorry, that was a lot of words but Cartoonshi is self-diagnosed?

I fucking knew it.

I am betting on my 50 bucks he may cow out in about 2-3 years minimum
All cartoon reviewers are retarded to an extend so it's easy to say if they keep going that they will eventually sperg.

It really does feel like season 1 and season 2 are completely different shows. Season 1, for the most part, felt like an actual show you could see on TV. Season 2 on the other hand feels like the fanfiction that is written about the characters from Season 1.

My theory is that the second she saw success she over time became obsessed with shipper pandering.
Think about it she is a fanfiction fag that didn't grow out of 2000s and 2010's tumblr/deviantart internet phase. Shipping is like music to her ears. To her opening twitter and seeing stolitz yaoi is like birds chirping in the morning.
Of course she will bend over fans. Imagine giving tumblr fanfic lunatic show with their cringy ocs and somehow they succeed. To them this is golden chance because in past she couldn't control actual characters of show to become what she wanted off her headcanons but now she is the show writer and her ocs are popular snd shit so ofc she thinks "now it's my turn i can do whatever i want with it and make all fan shit real because i am the creator"

 

[Clancee]

Viv has written the episodes for season 2 years in advance

She wrote this years in advance, but it still reads like a Wattpad fanfiction crapped out in one night. She needs better writing skills. Or wranglers.

 

[LucasSomething]

Gee I’m shocked.
View attachment 6119250

https://www.tumblr.com/chaifootsteps/754147571034980352/got-proof-that-stolas-as-a-sympathetic-uwu-baby

I can see what this person means. Vivzie is the kind of writer who prefers "shipping dynamics" over writing a relationship. Stolitz was written like "horny blackmailer x choiceless servant" and the next logical step is the realization that one of them actually loves the other, starting the new Sad blackmailer x resentful servant dynamics..

But i'm not sure vivzie "skipped" to the part. Vivzie did not make Stolas fall in love blitz and left fanon to explain the process. She hard retcons his backstory to make Blitzo the most important man in Stolas' life. She just deleted the previous dynamic for the sake of another (less toxic) one.

Been on a TVTropes binge. Somebody threw out the Draco In Leather Pants articles on Blitzo and Stolas.

It's already back, it was simply removed for 2 hours and rewritten by the same person who might've botched or deleted them by accident. They actually added the Draco in leather pants of Stella which is certainly not biased at all.



One curious thing to me tho is that this is different from the example in the helluva ymmv page, which i know cause ichecked it a few days ago when people mentioned tv tropes here. Someone edited that page on june 18 to remove the "overwhelming foreshadowing" part because it sounded like a stretch so this person saved the older version for some reason.

And just for fun, here are some other mentions of Stella in the page:


(Yaoi fanfic turning the ex wife into screaming harpy strawman? THE HORROR!)


(I like how in example, the user was already arguing Stella never loved Stolas before it was canon, aka making shit up)


From "Fan disliked explanation" (Actual critical thinking? In MY tvtropes?)


From "Wasted a perfectly good character"

 

[AnOminous]

But i'm not sure vivzie "skipped" to the part. Vivzie did not make Stolas fall in love blitz and left fanon to explain the process. She hard retcons his backstory to make Blitzo the most important man in Stolas' life. She just deleted the previous dynamic for the sake of another (less toxic) one.

I get insulted when a creator expects me to forget what I saw with my own two eyes like I'm some kind of fucking retard. I can let a few retcons slide but when it's just nonstop, go fuck yourself, you've broken the suspension of disbelief, often called a "willing suspension of disbelief" for good cause.

 

[FatalTater]

This actually makes me feel physically ill.

These two who despised each other are now suddenly lesbians because the Lord their Goddess Viv says so.

Kinda reminded me of youtubers Sam and Yaba, discussed in the Gorl World + Haydur Nation thread in the Deathfats discussion.

This latest episode was 21 minutes to be a music video for a song that might have been appreciated in the late 90's.
Not my favorite.

 

[Trollblade69]

It's already back, it was simply removed for 2 hours and rewritten by the same person who might've botched or deleted them by accident. They actually added the Draco in leather pants of Stella which is certainly not biased at all.

It was gone for two months, not two hours.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I don't know where people are getting this notion, but at least for me personally, I never thought of Stella to be soley innocent. Especially after she put a hit on her husband. It made sense though, because not only did her husband cheated on her, but he cheated on her with the lowest of the low. Whether it's betrayal, embarrassment, or a mix of the two, in her eyes at least, a dead husband is better than an ex-husband, especially in these circumstances. It's not an excuse; just an explanation.

This was of course when we didn't know the age of Stolas, so everyone just thought these were very ancient demons that have been together for a long time. Falling out of love would make sense (especially if Stolas feels like his time is running out in this realm, aka his lullaby to Octavia). Again, I just don't understand how these two never did love each other when they slept in the same bed, even after Octavia was born. Stella even refers to it as "our bed".

And speaking of Octavia getting used to her parents arguing...OF COURSE SHE HAS! The affair has at least happened twice at this point when we get to the Loo Loo Land episode. That means at least two months have passed (or if you want to be lenient a month, cause that is technically possible too). That would give Octavia enough time to get into the routine of drowning her parents out. Again, Octavia soley blames Stolas for what is happening in her home life; not Stella. She's not ranting about her mom's screaming or throwing items around her house; she's afraid that her father is going to leave with the imp that he's been cheating with.

 

[AnOminous]

Falling out of love would make sense (especially if Stolas feels like his time is running out in this realm, aka his lullaby to Octavia). Again, I just don't understand how these two never did love each other when they slept in the same bed, even after Octavia was born. Stella even refers to it as "our bed".

Completely forget all this bullshit though. It's been retrocanonized out of existence and if Vivz literally did write all this years ago and just bring it now, without ever realizing in the intervening time that it's absolutely retarded, she's an idiot. I actually think she's not that much of an idiot, though, she just realized which audience she needed to be a pander bear to.

And of course failed to learn anything from Zoophobia crashing and burning for very similar reasons.

 

[didelphigina]

From "Fan disliked explanation" (Actual critical thinking? In MY tvtropes?)

Fans prefer group think, as in, echo chamber think. Why'd you think they get so defensive when anyone criticizes Stolitz or defends Stella? They don't want explanation, they just want things they can agree with. TVTropes's the last site you should ever go to for critical thinking. They don't like that.

(Yaoi fanfic turning the ex wife into screaming harpy strawman? THE HORROR!)

"Scarily realistic abuse"????????? Excuse me? STOLAS is the one who depicts mental, emotional, and psychological abuse much more than Stella could ever do! What's scarily realistic about Stella's abuse? Hmm... she screams, okay, she nearly slapped him, okay, she threw an imp at him, okay, she hired an assassin at him, a bit far but doesn't really count as abuse, okay. She called him a pathetic man, yeah, no, he can just brush that off... okay.

Now, what did Stolas do? Hmm... emotionally manipulated Blitzo by getting fussy at him and making him the bad guy for reasonably being upset that Stolas was trying to turn a literal prostitution deal into a romantic relationship... okay. Coerced and forced Blitzo to do sexual acts with him monthly lest he wants to lose his only ticket to continue his assassination job (that the show completely forgot exists except for brief moments). Got upset and cried like a baby because Blitzo slightly raised his voice at him.

Gaslighted Blitzo constantly in S2:E9 by constantly saying "NUH UH I DIDN'T DO ALL THOSE MEAN THINGS TO YOU! YOU'RE L-LYING! YOU'RE NO DIFFERENT FROM STRIKER!! MEANIE!! I'M GIVING YOU THE COLD SHOULDER!!".

How does no one see this as abuse? How does this fandom see this as Blitzo getting his just desserts? Why is this fandom so blind to just... everything?? I've never seen a fandom lack critical thinking skills this hard, man.

 

[Activelo]

stuff

Just as a warning, the TVT mods have banned people for posting on this site before. They can read PMs whenever they want, so you might want to be careful that your account isn't discovered just by saying that much.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Just as a warning, the TVT mods have banned people for posting on this site before. They can read PMs whenever they want, so you might want to be careful that your account isn't discovered just by saying that much.

Wow, how homosexual of them. and retarded.

Also I can't believe that I'll say this, but the fanfiction "My Immortal" from Harry Potter had more foreshadowing than this. At least in some aspects.

 

[Roger Dennis]

Obligatory Stella posting

 

[Grimoire Canthari]

Wow, how homosexual of them. and retarded.

Also I can't believe that I'll say this, but the fanfiction "My Immortal" from Harry Potter had more foreshadowing than this. At least in some aspects.

My Immortal was also funnier

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

My Immortal was also funnier

"WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!" It was................................. Dumbledore!

 

[Resident Knievel]

I say we put a One Piece glazer and a Viv glazer in the same room and see who has the bigger tolerance for dogshit writing.

Ngl that playmat is pretty neat. Even if that whole scene is blatantly stolen from Naruto.
The trick is finding that person and marrying them.

At my LGS I’ve earned a reputation as a true, professional, hot-blooded hater, and nothing is easier to hate than Hazbin/Helluva. There’s like three people with those mats and if they sit down across from me for a commander game I kill them first