Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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Man, i didnt even register how Andre actually being super strong wizard while Stella has no powers accidentally makes her more sympathetic (again) because there is no way this didn't affect her personal growth.

If we assume owl magic is learned, then Stella never had the support, motivation or opportunity to learn which are all depressing to think about. If owl magic is a natural gift / bloodline related then it's even worse because Stella was basically born magicrippled or too weak while her brother was born with awesome ice powers.

Like, she seems to be in good terms with Andre but imagine being forced by your family to be a breeder while your brother is a free spirit with all the magic talent and keeps telling you're stupid and your only good trait is being pretty. Imagine the mental toll it takes on you.

Hell, Andre's "You're so lucky you're attractive" comments would become really fucked up in hindsight as, Andre isn't really complimenting her but actually insulting her for having literally no talent or purpose. If Stella was ugly, she wouldn't be able to marry a rich guy and her family would probably hate her, Andre included.
I know Viv said she was interested in doing a Stella backstory akin to Beatrice Horseman (Bojack Horseman), but if it was me I would go down something similar to Helga's (Hey Arnold). Andrealphus would be the Golden Child while Stella would be considered the Black Sheep of the family. I could imagine their parents giving all their attention to Andrealphus and neglecting Stella, constantly comparing her to him and saying "why can't you be more like your big brother?" It would even fall into my theory of Stella actually loving Stolas even though she acts cruel to him. In the same vein that Helga acts mean to Arnold because he's nice to her. If Stolas followed a similar suit while they were married, I can imagine her being confused and not being able to process this positive attention since she never received that during her childhood.
 
Times like these I wish fan art like this was the basis for the show instead of furry and fujo shit. A lovely normal straight family, just one, can appeal to most of not all fans of shows. But no, we are in clown world where antinatalism and anti nuclear family is just a staple of shitty 30 something year olds' fanfictions. *sigh*
Well, that would be swimming against the tide, and making a show which would in fact subvert expectations of today's society! And not check any checkboxes
I know Viv said she was interested in doing a Stella backstory akin to Beatrice Horseman (Bojack Horseman), but if it was me I would go down something similar to Helga's (Hey Arnold). Andrealphus would be the Golden Child while Stella would be considered the Black Sheep of the family. I could imagine their parents giving all their attention to Andrealphus and neglecting Stella, constantly comparing her to him and saying "why can't you be more like your big brother?" It would even fall into my theory of Stella actually loving Stolas even though she acts cruel to him. In the same vein that Helga acts mean to Arnold because he's nice to her. If Stolas followed a similar suit while they were married, I can imagine her being confused and not being able to process this positive attention since she never received that during her childhood.
This looks a bit more romantic, but also retains traces of imperfection, which I approve. You know, not a happy family, but one where husband and wife would say "Hey, we are on this together. You made me be who I am, and I am by your side."

Instead we get "Fuck you I want to party like it's 1920s Weimar or Sodom."
 
I know Viv said she was interested in doing a Stella backstory akin to Beatrice Horseman (Bojack Horseman), but if it was me I would go down something similar to Helga's (Hey Arnold). Andrealphus would be the Golden Child while Stella would be considered the Black Sheep of the family. I could imagine their parents giving all their attention to Andrealphus and neglecting Stella, constantly comparing her to him and saying "why can't you be more like your big brother?" It would even fall into my theory of Stella actually loving Stolas even though she acts cruel to him. In the same vein that Helga acts mean to Arnold because he's nice to her. If Stolas followed a similar suit while they were married, I can imagine her being confused and not being able to process this positive attention since she never received that during her childhood.
I don’t know if I found it on here or tumblr, but there was fanart of Stella’s diary that, TLDR, said something similar to this. Essentially little girl Stella writes that she is sad that her mom and dad loves her big brother more than her. But that’s okay, because her parents said that she’s engaged to a prince named Stolas, and once they fall get married they’re gonna have an egg and everything is going to be okay. The bottom of that page is a child’s drawing of Adult Stell, Adult Stolas, both of whom are happy, and between them is an egg.

I know I said this before, as I’m sure many others have, it’s very easy to make Stella and understandable villain. For me, it’s just give her the backstory above, but add onto it the twist of the knife that once she is married, once she is with Stolas, he doesn’t love her or hate her, he’s just indifferent to her. Suddenly you have a woman trapped in a marriage that really is a gilded cage, because it’s not like she can cheat. She’s the one that ays the egg, Instead of despairing like her husband does, she hardens herself and learns the game. Stolas may have the raw magical power, but she will have the cunning, the political connections, the political power to ensure her and her daughters future with or without Stolas.
 
I know Viv said she was interested in doing a Stella backstory akin to Beatrice Horseman (Bojack Horseman), but if it was me I would go down something similar to Helga's (Hey Arnold). Andrealphus would be the Golden Child while Stella would be considered the Black Sheep of the family. I could imagine their parents giving all their attention to Andrealphus and neglecting Stella, constantly comparing her to him and saying "why can't you be more like your big brother?" It would even fall into my theory of Stella actually loving Stolas even though she acts cruel to him. In the same vein that Helga acts mean to Arnold because he's nice to her. If Stolas followed a similar suit while they were married, I can imagine her being confused and not being able to process this positive attention since she never received that during her childhood.
Sorry but only characters Viv wants you to cheer for are allowed to have sympathetic backstories, knowing Viv's media literacy she'd probably just make it so Stella was somehow at fault for everything that happened during her youth.
 
I know Viv said she was interested in doing a Stella backstory akin to Beatrice Horseman (Bojack Horseman), but if it was me I would go down something similar to Helga's (Hey Arnold). Andrealphus would be the Golden Child while Stella would be considered the Black Sheep of the family. I could imagine their parents giving all their attention to Andrealphus and neglecting Stella, constantly comparing her to him and saying "why can't you be more like your big brother?" It would even fall into my theory of Stella actually loving Stolas even though she acts cruel to him. In the same vein that Helga acts mean to Arnold because he's nice to her. If Stolas followed a similar suit while they were married, I can imagine her being confused and not being able to process this positive attention since she never received that during her childhood.

Helga's was damaging as all hell. She was abandoned and forced to walk to school while her sister being the golden child has hints of HATING the attention she received, and while she tried to be kind to Helga, Helga had no interest in forming a relationship with someone she viewed as competition.


Meanwhile, Beatrice's backstory is similar to Helga's but slightly different, it was clear that both sides of parents had an interest in one child. (Crackerjack is Beatrice's mom's favorite and Beatrice is her dad's favorite) its encapsulated when her mother and Crackerjack had a special bond that she didn't have with her own daughter. Then CJ died. This caused a deep change in her mother which led to her nearly killing Beatrice and being forcibly lobotomized as a way to be fixed ultimately making her unable to be there for Beatrice, due to this, the Scarlet Fever, the clinical detachment from Beatrice's father and the constant bullying made Beatrice into a cold, unloving matriarch that proceeded (and with her husband) to raise BoJack. BH is oftentimes misunderstood for it's seriousness and if Viv wants to write something as nearly impactful as it, maybe don't make the person you instead on being a victim a piece of shit first. Beatrice had a level of nonce that lacks in Stella. Without that missing key and fixing the inconsistencies you'll ultimately fail in setting along a story, that and it needs to be different from BH. Copying something is unflattering.
 
I just remembered something odd when it comes to the "Does Stella have powers" discourse discussed and I think she may actually have them.

For the simple reason that Octavia breaks off the fight between Andre and IMP + Stolas by threatening Andre to stop hurting Stolas or she'd tell Stella that Andre got his ass kicked by IMP, which caused Andre to back off.

Like if Stella was without powers, why'd she be pissed that Andre get his ass kicked and why would Andre care about her seeing him fail especially when he has the edge.

Its such a weird detail to justify ending a fight scene.
 
I just remembered something odd when it comes to the "Does Stella have powers" discourse discussed and I think she may actually have them.

For the simple reason that Octavia breaks off the fight between Andre and IMP + Stolas by threatening Andre to stop hurting Stolas or she'd tell Stella that Andre got his ass kicked by IMP, which caused Andre to back off.

Like if Stella was without powers, why'd she be pissed that Andre get his ass kicked and why would Andre care about her seeing him fail especially when he has the edge.

Its such a weird detail to justify ending a fight scene.
Especially since we know that Andre insults Stella on a regular basis by calling her stupid. So either she is stronger than him, which would make sense if Piemon or whatever Stolas' dad's name is, wanted a strong heir from Stolas he'd make sure the person Stolas got with was potentially strong. Or he fears her because of some other reason but I honestly can't think of any reason for that
 
I just remembered something odd when it comes to the "Does Stella have powers" discourse discussed and I think she may actually have them.

For the simple reason that Octavia breaks off the fight between Andre and IMP + Stolas by threatening Andre to stop hurting Stolas or she'd tell Stella that Andre got his ass kicked by IMP, which caused Andre to back off.

Like if Stella was without powers, why'd she be pissed that Andre get his ass kicked and why would Andre care about her seeing him fail especially when he has the edge.

Its such a weird detail to justify ending a fight scene.

I think the intention is really as simple as it sounds. Stella wouldn't be "pissed", she would mock the fuck out of her brother and probably gossip to friends, which would hurt Andre's pride.

Of course, it's not that it's that easy to tell since Andre is really shallow and so is his dynamic with Stella so you can argue i'm headcanoning.

Either way i don't think Stella has powers cause Stolas never treated Stella like a threat of any level. If she had powers i think they'd make her threaten Stolas in S2E1 but instead she goes for a slap, fails and gives up. She doesn't seem like the type of person who would hide her powerlevel when angry either.

On a doyist point of view, Stella also shouldn't have powers since she isn't one of the 72 goetia demons. The ones we know are powerful are Paimon, Stolas, Vassago and Andrealphus who are certified Goetia. I think Vivzie will only give powers to true Ars Goetia demons (and octavia), which is, funny enough, sexist since there are no female goetia demons.
 
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I think the intention is really as simple as it sounds. Stella wouldn't be "pissed", she would mock the fuck out of her brother and probably gossip to friends, which would hurt Andre's pride.
Yeah that is a good point, Andre would be the type of guy who likes shit talking but can't handle it himself, especially when Stella is a professional shit talker.

Yeah but Stolas had to allow himself to be executed in court for his imp lover who he literally said loudly is the only thing that mattered to him.
 
Did they screw up Stella’s eyes there? She normally has white pupils and red sclera, and I think keeping that in mind changes the emotions being conveyed.
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Saw some people on twitter say "Millie told Sally and [didn’t] tell [Moxxie ‘c]ause she is cheating on him"[.]
What, with her brother? Who else does she talk to who has a penis besides her brothers and Blitz? This show has some dumb writing, but I don’t think it’s gonna be that dumb.

And yet people will tell you that there's no depth to Stella, that she was always horrible, and that any evidence to the contrary is headcanon or coincidence.
Well she's deliberately written that way[.]
Agreeing with Gondolindrim on this one. There isn’t any depth to her because she exists to rationalize Stolas’s behaviour - just like Paimon. All these contradictions demonstrate is sloppy writing, not depth. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong and you right by Viv elaborating on these things, but I doubt it.

Given that Viviz revealed Octavia is asexual during Pride Month
Seriously, how fucking hard is to give an ace character a proper representation
How do you represent something that doesn’t exist?

From what I've seen [asexuality is] more a symptom of autism in women, who already tend to have less interest in sex than men. The autism makes them more internally focused on their own interests and just the whole normal human mating desire just never kicks in at puberty.

Even bog standard lesbians suffer bed death because of the lower female libido, being an autist means you're already detached to some level from normal human functionality. Doesn't happen to all of them, but some just mentally never develop to that level where a partner seems interesting or worthwhile compared to collecting Sonic the Hedgehog dolls.

They could get sex if they wanted, because that's easy for a woman. A relationship would be out of reach, but random casual sex to not be a virgin. Effortless, but it's just not as interesting as whatever fandom they latched onto.
Emphasis my own to demarcate what I consider to be correct in this post.
I think you’re right about asexuality being a meme for mentally-ill, frequently autistic, teenaged girls. However, there’s a bunch of other stuff in your post (like the lesbian bed-death meme) that is neither substantiated nor necessary for your argument.

I think a better explanation is that people adopt the asexual label to escape awkward social situations. This allows them to reject someone without being labelled a “bigot”. It seems intuitive to me that a girl would feign asexuality as a means to reject Misters Gigahon and Creepybusguy without getting her skull bashed in. Asexuality is the new “I’m a lesbian”, which is the new “I have a boyfriend”. It’s a way of coddling angry autistic men who won’t take no for an answer; it allows them to reject these guys without revealing their specific disdain and causing offence.

I think spergs also have a very different experience of sexuality compared to normies. I’m reminded of this one vampire YouTuber who used to pal around with Lindsay Ellis (who, possibly like Millie, had an abortion). She called herself asexual despite being married to a man and having a kid with him. She was asked (via her Tumblr (archive 2)) about whether her husband - shown here on the right of the screen or her left - was a rapist / sex pest for having sex with her in spite of this admission. She came up with some bullshit non-answer about how asexuals will have sex for emotional or reproductive functions, or whatever. Honestly? I wonder if a lifetime of sexy vampire novels has rendered all ordinary men unattractive to her. I have a feeling that if a convincing Lestat cosplayer hit on her and proposed marriage, she wouldn’t be “asexual” anymore.

Why did she call Stolas a "cheating prick" on the phone with Striker if the cheating didn't hurt her?
I always assumed that she was less hurt and more humiliated. Like she never loved Stolas, but being cucked into oblivion by a lower-class sub-person (in her perspective) utterly demolished her self-esteem and social standing.

She found out she's having a baby after almost being executed by Satan, after a trial which ended up putting a Goetia in her workplace and after picking a fight with another Goetia.

She'd be fine if it was just Blitzo she'd be afraid of but now Stolas' incestious brother in law might be targeting IMP to prevent Stolas from getting his status back.
Excellent point. If I was suddenly caught up in a wild melodrama featuring several high profile celebrities, the last thing I’d want to deal with is pregnancy.

Lucifag who shat Charlie from his ass
Please tell me you’re joking. I looked it up, and it looks like that is just a rumour.

I'm sure people in Gaza are fucking worried about a show.
Is this not a reference to the boycott of Amazon?

I've got a schizo theory on that and why Pentious went to heaven.
The deciding factor that sorts people between hell and heaven is actually really simple, gays go to hell, straights go to heaven.
My theory is that Sir Pentious died for his friends, and that redemptive act sent him to Heaven. When Alastor has his meltdown in the finale song, the joke is on him. Alastor sees dying at Adam’s hands to save his friends to be horrifying and humiliating. However, had he followed through like Pentious, he would have been freed from whoever owns his soul. Alastor had his chance to slip through a “back door” in his deal’s “constraints” but he ruined it by being a selfish, cowardly loser.

There’s a reason the pilot episode is not canon.
I thought it was generally understood that pilots are never canon?

Beelzebub looks more like a fox than a bee, much less the disgusting fly creature people hoped she would be to make her design stand out
I’m still mad about this.

I’m honestly wondering where Vivzie even plans to go with this
My prediction is that IMP becomes a circus, just like Blitzo said when he was little. The summer camp episode and how happy Moxxie and Millie were to perform for others was foreshadowing of that. At least, that’s what competent writers would do.

She plans on making 6 seasons
That is fucking retarded. Most animated shows get two, maybe three.

Modern writers can't write good antagonists because they are blind to evil, even their own.
Exactly. That’s why the finale episode with the dead wife was so cringe-inducing for me. Whining about exposing children to a degenerate lifestyle is so 2004. Viv can’t even voice her bigots properly because she probably has a very shallow understanding of her opposition. And I doubt clowns like Mick are encouraging open-mindedness on this issue.

Didn't they try to do that with Hazbin a few years ago? I remember there were two comics, one involving Angel, and the other Alastor. I don't remember what happened with them but they haven't made any more of them again.
You’re correct, but that same comic was appropriated for storyboards when “Stayed Gone” was animated.
 
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I like Stolas because he is funny. The main issue is that Stolas has never accepted responsibility for any of his actions. He chose to be with Stella for as long as he did. He is the noble, she is not. He chose to cheat on her, and break the law by giving Blitzo his book. He chose to break his Promise with Octavia and prefer Blitzo.

Yet he expects there to be no consequences. He decides to cheat on Stella, and expects to maintain a semblance of regality. He expects to break the law without facing justice. He expects his daughter to love him after betraying her.

How Stolas should have handled Octavia if he really loved her would be to say what he did, completely accept responsibility, inform her that her parents are not her responsibility, and leave. That's the only way she can truly heal, and being raised by Stella who has never been shown to lie to her or abuse her is the best for her.
 
Firstly, I'm amazed people once thought vivzie was a "terf" she's long since proven that's not true, her latest episode where she destroys a nuclear family in favor of two fagolas rasing girls is the final proof of her being firmly a boot licker when it's on tye left foot.


Secondly it is awe inspiring how for as "questionable" to be generous, the helluva boss fanbase is. It can be capable at times of telling better stories than the fucking creator, filling in plot holes, even giving slightly better backstories that aren't (completely) stock arrested development ramblings of someone stuck in sophomore year.
 
A new Helluva Boss episode? And it sent the thread into overdrive? It's a Christmas miracle!
To give Vivzie some slack, I have seen other media do the whole "not telling the husband your pregnant right away" thingamajig.
I was recently watching this obscure and high class film called Fast and Furious. It's a bit artsy so I don't blame you for having not seen it, but the point is this film does something similar, where Mia, the wife of one of the primary protagonists, Brian, is established to be pregnant in the beginning of the film. She initially holds off on telling him, they're on the lam at this point, but eventually she works up the courage to tell him. His excitement at the news also serves a story purpose, giving the characters a reason to not split up at this point and go hide from the numerous gangers and ruthless federal agents hunting them. Fast 4 is hilariously unpozzed compared to Helluva, so I don't think this plot hook is entirely due to baby murder fetishism.

And to be a buzzkill, the baby plot is probably going to be milked for drama and then resolved instantly all within the first episode of the upcoming season. Vivzie's really bad at writing conflicts that stretch the whole season. Actually, she's really bad at set up and pay off in general, but that's no secret at this point.
 
Firstly, I'm amazed people once thought vivzie was a "terf" she's long since proven that's not true, her latest episode where she destroys a nuclear family in favor of two fagolas rasing girls is the final proof of her being firmly a boot licker when it's on tye left foot.
I'm tired. I just came from the thread about the happy perfect gay couple that's finally going to jail for sexuality abusing their adopted sons and I couldn't parse it from this thread for a second and confused myself.

Vivzie's really bad at writing conflicts that stretch the whole season. Actually, she's really bad at set up and pay off in general, but that's no secret at this point.
I feel this is the crux of the problem. She can do little skits, but she lacks the ability to build characters and worlds. She can't show, only tell. Whereas most people here, myself included, look at what's shown too and then get mixed signals between what we see happen, and what Vivz is telling is happening through exposition.
 
On top of how utterly cringe this episode was (except Octavia telling Stolas to fuck off, based), the amount of times all the characters seem to flip everyone off in the show comes across so weak and honestly dated.

Do people actually still do that in current year?

🖕🏼😏🖕🏼😝🖕🏼😈🖕🏼

It's juvenile in the cringiest 2008 invader zim holds up spork kind of way. She aggressively refuses to let go of shit from her peak deviantart days.
 
I just realized Stolas actually didn't put his life on the line for Blitzø in the court room because it's been established in the show that the only thing that can kill immortal high-power demons are angelic weapons.

And Blitzø didn't save Stolas' life from Andrealphus because Stolas couldn't die from him. If anything, it was more likely for Blitzø and his crew to have died.

This is why the "royal and their knight" dynamic doesn't work in this universe. Because here, the royal is way more powerful than the knight protecting them. It just come across as stupid and toxic for the mortal being to risk their life for the immortal being.
 
And to be a buzzkill, the baby plot is probably going to be milked for drama and then resolved instantly all within the first episode of the upcoming season. Vivzie's really bad at writing conflicts that stretch the whole season. Actually, she's really bad at set up and pay off in general, but that's no secret at this point.
Yeah I said this I don't know how many pages ago but Vivzie is honestly not the best at writing drama or romance. She has good strengths on action/comedy since the last Helluva Boss short (The Chupacabra one) was actually really good.

Any good drama that's found within her shows that isn't unintentional is usually because she had other writers to tard wrangle her (except Adam Neylan who is honestly a worse writer than Vivzie and it says a lot that his peak was the Weeb short in Helluva Boss, which is after the worst short in that shorts lineup, the swearing penguins one).
 
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