Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Outer Space Traveller]

I'm assuming this is being talked about because this section of some review is making the rounds lately.
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As @Doctor of Autism said, I think the point is that once someone ends up in Hell, they inevitably shed their empathy and virtues since they're surrounded by other flawed people who already did so, plus a ton of murderers, rapists, and others who already who completely awful before they ended up in Hell. But the show doesn't show it.

Where is this 'toss review from? I swear I saw it in this thread, but I can't find it now.

 

[Re(Runner)48]

Honestly they could make some interesting sinners "who shouldn't belong in hell". That would be an interesting concept and actually refreshing. Some examples of morally grey sins that could of been tackled on.

-A war veteran who killed alot of people for his country. Who was merely following orders. And accidentally killed innocent people from the war without his knowledge. Murder and killing are still a sin.

- A theif who was stealing for people to survive. Such as relics and or other rarities and only got a cut for their work. They could of been super poor, as stealing is still a sin.

- A guy sees a crime that's commited. And it could of been someone they were related to or close to, so when they testified against them. They lied though they know the person commited the crime. And got into more crime because of them. As it's someone they are close to its alot harder to want to go against someone in your family, or someone who is your friend.
(Ignoring Sir Pentious as that story made no sense, they didn't even question him or do anything that they suggested)

- Someone hails a fake god they didn't know. Goes to hell.

- A billionaire is more obsessed with his money than his family. Coveting money and being a scrooge, he ignores his children growing up he doesn't rasie them himself and has maids do it, his wife keeps trying to fix their marriage but he ignores her just throws money at her for the problem to go away. Children grow up distant don't even want his money because of what they've seen first hand of what it does to someone. His wife dies he doesn't care, some of his children dies, he doesn't care, only until he's dying he realizes how lonely he is still doesn't attone for his sins before death.

- Someone who cheats on their partner, and was selfish in life didn't appreciate what they had and ruined their child's life on earth. (Instead of excusing the cheating because of GAY SHIT)

- A person who's a home wreaker goes around ruining marriages. Only for the thrill of it, a tempter who goes to wives and husband's to tempts them only because they enjoy spreading chaos. Perhaps they have trouble with their autonomy and can't produce children of their own, so they live vicariously through others because they are infertile.

- Someone who's an addict falling down the wrong path. A younger person perhaps (not AngelDust who's like fucking 30-40+ and is a mafioso's son) could be a woman who got into drugs in her teens and spirals, steals, cheats, becomes a day walker. Dying before she can even legally drink. It would make the sinner more sympathetic as it's a younger unexperienced person who gets caught up and was manipulated at a very young age.

These are just some ideas to make them somewhat sympathetic  Viv.

Not fucking rapists, cannibals, abusers, sexual deviants, murders, neptobabies coddling grown people who all exhibit these traits. Which make them unredeemable and reprehensible. Undeserving of redemption because you can't redeem these people. She unironically made Alastor be her own version of Jeffrey Dahmer, with only peppering in that he's black targeting white people, does voodoo, and he's not fucking the corpses/ is ACESEXUAL.

Dahmer was a white guy who targeted black people, was a former of Satanist, who was turbo gay and had a drinking problem. I hope I'm not the only one seeing the similarities of these two as hes just a "edgy" deviantart oc version of a real life cannibal serial killer.

 

[Tablet County]

Honestly they could make some interesting sinners "who shouldn't belong in hell". That wo7kd be an interesting concept and actually refreshing. Some examples of morally grey sins that could of been tackled on.

I remember hearing a long time ago something along the lines of "you're only a prisoner of Hell by choice" and that idea's always fascinated me. The idea that there's an entire group of people who are only in Hell not necessarily because they're bad people, but because they're people who are so conscientious that they're wracked by guilt from some great wrongdoing and they loathe themselves. They see themselves as beneath absolution and so don't even attempt to ask for it. I think there's a rich vein of drama there.

 

[FK009]

I just find this entire situation ironic, isn't "forgiveness" like a core tenet of Christianity? they're fans of a show that very obviously tries to be anti-christian despite the fact that the morals it pushes are rooted in Christian ideology. It's like the perfect microcosm of everything wrong with this show and it's fans.

It is, but that’s one side of the coin, and not the side they take issue with. Forgiveness goes hand in hand with the other core tenet, repentance, and that’s where the breakdown starts happening with these sorts of things. God will forgive us and we should forgive, however, God also requests that we truly try and repent of the sins we commit to be forgiven, and we need others to repent of their sins as well, which comes in the form of trying to be better.

These people love what I call Hippy Jesus, where he tells you to be nice to everyone no matter the sin, and be cool to one another, and that so long as you’re generally nice, you’re good. This ignores actual Jesus, who says “Your sins are forgiven”, which everyone loves, but then adds a line, that they don’t like.

What they absolutely despise is: “Go and sin no more.” Which indicates you need to stop the behavior that was sinful. In their view, those standards are evil and oppressive, because you should be able to do whatever you want, whenever you want, without thought to either the future or other people. So long as you don’t do something really bad, like murder someone (and if Luigi M. taught me anything, even murder isn’t that evil, depending on who you kill, which should worry everyone and anyone who has ever interacted with those sociopaths because they have a very loose and liquid definition of who’s deserving to be killed) then Heaven isn’t something that is given, Heaven is owed to you. You are perfect the way you are, and if someone tries to hold you to a moral standard, they’re the issue, not your behavior, God included.

As an afterthought, People here also joke about the Sad Backstory thing excusing all actions, I have met people that actually think that if someone does something like steal or rob someone, it’s not their fault for making the choice, no they’re has to be a reason they’re doing it that’s understandable and thus, just need some kindness.

Source for this: Atheists and Leftists in the family/People that utterly despise Christianity, but constantly try to co-opt the church for their own shitty beliefs.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I'm assuming this is being talked about because this section of some review is making the rounds lately.
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As @Doctor of Autism said, I think the point is that once someone ends up in Hell, they inevitably shed their empathy and virtues since they're surrounded by other flawed people who already did so, plus a ton of murderers, rapists, and others who already who completely awful before they ended up in Hell. But the show doesn't show it.

Again, it's one of those lines that needs fixing. If Emily has said something along the line of "murdering countless souls", that would have worked fine. But no. She says "bringing misery to thousands of innocent people". Sweetie. The people were already bringing their own misery to each other down in Hell without the angels contributing. In fact, it's you could argue that the angels are bringing a sense of mercy to those people since they're ending their eternal suffering. Also, yeah...the people in Hell aren't innocent either. The majority of them are causing suffering to one another and even enjoying it.

Now, maybe the original line could have work if it was to show how naive Emily was. But it's not really framed that way. Sera, the supposedly wiser and older angel, doesn't counteract that question. She doesn't bring up any of the points that I did to make Emily rethink her previous stance. She just tells her that she shouldn't be questioning these ort of things, otherwise there could be a chance that she could fall like Lucifer did. This is why many of the villains and antagonists in these shows don't work. They never bring up any valid points that could make the protagonist question themselves. The "good guy" is always 100% correct, while the "bad guy" is always 100% incorrect.

I'll also talk about the other thing that has been brought up here a lot: the idea of a Sinner that has not committed as egregious crimes. We get that with Sir Pentious, as his worst crime is not reporting a murder he witnessed. I can't remember if he also sold his inventions to the murderer, but the point is that compared to the other characters, his sins are not as bad.

The thing is that once he got into Hell, that's a different story. He's actively trying to make himself be a threat and a Mastermind villain. He's engaging in turf wars, destroying property, and attacking other people. Now, here's another argument that can be made. If people become worse in Hell because there's nothing preventing them from engaging in their bad vices, it could be stated that people also become worse to survive in Hell. Because, let's face it; trying to be a good person in Hell is nearly impossible. Sin is not only encouraged, it is rewarded. So if you don't want to be actively prey on by shit-stains, you yourself have to become a shit-stain.

This could be an interestin to go in to more depth in the show; that for some Sinners, they have to be terrible people because that's really the only way to live in such an environment as Hell. But I doubt this will even be a point that is brought up.

 

[Saxxon]

My favorite part of keeping up with the merch drops is to see the creative ways that Viv and Spindlehorse find to rip off their loyal fans;

Like how about 66 dollars plus tax and shipping for a giant piece of cardboard with you favorite gay spider on it?


Or more coomer merch for a minor side character that feels that should have come in February along with the others?

 

[Doctor of Autism]

More merch

 

[Dr. Arinsu]

To be honest the idea of redemption kinda falls flat when you take into account that like many people have said, are there for a reason, Child Rapists, Rapists, Mass Murders, Virgins With Rage that turned Mass Murderers... The list goes on and on, if one were to be redeemed, lets say... A Child Rapist, I- Saint Peter in this case would reject them. No one ever thinks about that, but they are willing to defend Val whenever a real Murderer is brought up alongside it.

Edit: My Friend did have an idea for Kids in Heaven that I would share. If anyone would like to hear.

 

[Dawdler]

The redemption is limited to traveling to upper levels and to "heaven". Basically gates of heaven are ICE and unworthies get thrown back to hell.
There's no resurrection in this scenario.

 

[A Grey Cat]

More merch

Surprised they're dropping more when they still have valentines day stuff unsold. The veroskia daki and valentino stuff, and the mats and posters sold out in days and yet the "sexy spinning acrylic stripper figures" are still avaliable? I wonder if either vivzie and spindlehorse are overstocked because helluva/hazbin is losing its money printing potential, or if the "limited stock" claim is a lie ment to entice buyers. Especially since I think there's still some halloween merch left on clearance at the end pages of the sharkrobot store.

 

[Catboi]

Surprised they're dropping more when they still have valentines day stuff unsold. The veroskia daki and valentino stuff, and the mats and posters sold out in days and yet the "sexy spinning acrylic stripper figures" are still avaliable? I wonder if either vivzie and spindlehorse are overstocked because helluva/hazbin is losing its money printing potential, or if the "limited stock" claim is a lie ment to entice buyers. Especially since I think there's still some halloween merch left on clearance at the end pages of the sharkrobot store.

I think it's them losing fans/money. I've been buying merch for ages (yes I know I'm an edgy deviantart faggot) and the past two years it's been STEADILY decreasing how fast things sell out. If it's not a sale deal (ex. the 7 pins for the price of 2 or 3 for the price of 1 deals) or the sexyman of the week it stays on for months. I remember stuff used to sell out in a few days max.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Something that should confirm that 99.9% of Sinners are massive pieces of shit, even when they first wind up in Hell, is that over 6+ months of Charlie offering not just a chance at redemption but a free room and board (So even if you don't believe redemption into Heaven is possible you still have a reason to go), Charlie only managed to get two Sinners to stay at her Hotel, even if you add S2 it's only confirmed that the guest list adds only two more characters (Cherri and Baxter, and we don't know why Baxter shows up so who knows if he's actually interested in being a better person).

Now I get why, the cast is bloated enough already, but the total lack of no name background Hotel guests really makes Sinners like Angel and Pentious the exception rather than the rule.

 

[The Nothingness]

Going back through the comments on Flazefire's Hazbin video and give me the show with this big twist.

 

[Dr. Arinsu]

Going back through the comments on Flazefire's Hazbin video and give me the show with this big twist.
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We all know Viv will diabolically let us down with this hype.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Something that should confirm that 99.9% of Sinners are massive pieces of shit, even when they first wind up in Hell, is that over 6+ months of Charlie offering not just a chance at redemption but a free room and board (So even if you don't believe redemption into Heaven is possible you still have a reason to go), Charlie only managed to get two Sinners to stay at her Hotel, even if you add S2 it's only confirmed that the guest list adds only two more characters (Cherri and Baxter, and we don't know why Baxter shows up so who knows if he's actually interested in being a better person).

Now I get why, the cast is bloated enough already, but the total lack of no name background Hotel guests really makes Sinners like Angel and Pentious the exception rather than the rule.

Logically, there would be more people than what we got coming to the hotel; either for protection, they're recent Sinners, or they're trying to get to their family or significant other that ended up in Heaven. And maybe they only stay there for a few days before leaving because redeeming oneself is hard and/or they given up hope on going to Heaven.

It's just strange how we don't see one Sinner who has just gotten into Hell try their chance at the Hotel. If anyone was going to take a whack at redemption, it would probably be the person that only has a day experience of Hell instead of the ones who have been there for decades and is used to life down here.

 

[ssaneenah]

Like how about 66 dollars plus tax and shipping for a giant piece of cardboard with your favorite gay spider on it?

Thanks Viv, but I can make my own harem of a hundred gay spiders, for roughly half a dollar per one gay spider.



Edit: didn’t see that it was a life-sized standee… which is still a scam, because 72 inches is exactly 6 feet, while Angel is canonically 7 to 8 feet tall, depending on if you count his hair and whether he’s wearing heels.

 

[GoodWinSon]

Thanks Viv, but I can make my own harem of a hundred gay spiders, for roughly half a dollar per one gay spider.

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Not with those shipping charges.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Thanks Viv, but I can make my own harem of a hundred gay spiders, without your help - roughly one dollar per one gay spider.

just because you can doesn't mean you should

 

[ssaneenah]

Not with those shipping charges.

Local second hand marketplaces and thrift stores in decently populated towns sell plenty of usable twenty-dollar printers. I had to use something for the reference.

just because you can doesn't mean you should

Thanks for the heads up, boss, but if I’ll do it anyway, I’m sending you a few.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Oh boy. So someone posted a list of highlights from some con where Viv, Sam, and a lot of the VAs were at a panel. Besides the many...many cringe responses, I do like how Viv basically said that she hates all her past friends but admits she wouldn't be where she was today without them.

God, why do these grown adults who are either in their thirties or older act like fucking pre-teens? No wonder Keith David doesn't want to hang around these people.