Science Huge genome study confronted by concerns over race analysis - Some geneticists say key figure falsely suggests genetic data support notion of distinct races

BY JOCELYN KAISER
23 FEB 2024 6:05 PM ET

_20240223_all-of-us-lead-1708967.jpg
An attempt to depict the relatedness of nearly 250,000 people in the All of Us study has drawn criticism.ALL OF US RESEARCH PROGRAM GENOMICS INVESTIGATORS, NATURE (2024), HTTPS://DOI.ORG/10.1038/S41586-023-06957-X

An uproar broke out on social media this week after Nature published a paper about a massive U.S. health research effort to capture the genetic diversity of people across the country. Critics said a key figure, which depicts patterns of relatedness among nearly 250,000 study volunteers whose genomes were sequenced, could mislead some readers into thinking the data support the idea that humans fall into distinct races.

The flap highlights the challenge of describing human ancestry data, some scientists say. The leader of the challenged All of Us study, funded by the National Institutes of Health, acknowledged in a statement that “many excellent points have been raised” about how researchers communicated their results. But they have no plans to revise the figure. “The feedback highlights how quickly this field of research is evolving, as well as its complexity,” geneticist and All of Us CEO Josh Denny said in the statement.

The study, which aims to eventually recruit 1 million volunteers across the United States, was designed to address concerns that existing genomic data sets are primarily composed of data from people of European descent. All of Us, however, has prioritized recruiting Black people, Latinos, and others with normally underrepresented backgrounds. The Nature paper, one of several from the study published this week, identified more than 1 billion DNA differences, or variants, among the nearly 250,000 genomes, noting that about one-quarter of those variants are novel and some could yield fresh insights into diseases.

Many researchers noted the value of the data set for expanding genomic research to include a greater diversity of people. However, several prominent geneticists quickly expressed concern that the way the All of Us team depicted the diversity in its data set was overly simplistic. The authors had used an algorithm called uniform manifold approximation and projection (UMAP) to summarize the variation and visually represent genetic relationships among participants who described themselves as white, Black, Asian, or a member of another racial group. This resulted in a graph consisting of several blobs of different colors (see the figure here).

The problem, critics said, is that UMAP creates blobs that look distinct while masking the inherent messiness in the data. “The fact that they are distinct is an artefact/feature of UMAP,” Ewan Birney, director of the European Bioinformatics Institute, wrote in a long thread on the social media platform X (formerly Twitter) describing how UMAP takes complex genomic data and summarizes them in 2D. “Almost certainly, some of the people in the other big blobs are some sort of cousin to the main blob.”

Birney acknowledged there’s no “easy way to represent this data in 2D” but also expressed concern that “it can easily be read as ‘race is pretty real, and associated with genetics’ which is … *not* a good interpretation.” Stanford University geneticist Jonathan Pritchard expressed a similar concern. “I’m not a UMAP hater in all settings, but I think it’s misleading and potentially harmful for this specific problem,” he wrote on X, adding that it could be “misinterpreted by the public.”

The paper’s corresponding author, geneticist Alexander Bick of Vanderbilt University Medical Center, acknowledges that the figure could have been labeled more clearly. But he points out that the three other major human genome papers published in the past few years, from the UK Biobank, a database called gnomAD, and the Mexican Biobank, also use the UMAP algorithm, which “is frankly why we selected it.” Trying to depict complex genomics data in 2D is “really challenging,” he says.

Bick also counters arguments by some critics that the All of Us paper authors disregarded a recent National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine report on the appropriate use of population labels in genetics studies. He notes that the report came out after the Nature paper was first submitted, but that he and his co-authors incorporated its advice on several matters, such as not including race and ethnicity in the same figure.
Outspoken geneticist and former eLife Editor-in-Chief Michael Eisen called on X for a retraction of the Nature paper, warning that it “features a scientifically invalid representation of genetic diversity and race that is going to feature in racist literature for decades.”

When asked about the concerns, a Nature spokesperson said: “We are aware of the discussions that are taking place and are in contact with the authors.”

Geneticist Daniel MacArthur of the Garvan Institute of Medical Research tried to find a middle ground in the discussion. “All Of Us is one of the most thoughtfully inclusive programs in the history of human genetics, and will have enormous impact on reducing inequity in genomic medicine,” he posted on X. But, he added, the lesson of the UMAP flap is to “be careful with ancestry labels; they matter.”

Source (Archive)
 

Attachments

It’s what the left thinks will happen with the info that’s fascinating. Take IQ. ‘If we IQ test people and find one group has lower IQ they will get genocided.’ Why?? How??
Ok but no, there’s a massive spread of IQ within most populations. Are you saying that dim white people should get less rights?
Part of their unstated reasoning is that they've spent the last century agitating for the rights of the indigenous and native against the "coloniser", and now the language has sunk in to the point that westerners are starting to use the same arguments. This is a bad development, because having native western populations agitating for those same indigenous rights blows a hole in the "divide and conquer" strategy of the post-national consensus.

An example: At least 80% of the extant "white" population of the British Isles is indigenous, by any rational meaning of the term, often with unbroken lineages from the first post-ice-age settlers. Most of the people called "anglo-saxon" are culturally anglicised descendents of brythonic-speaking natives; not of the saxons, frisians, nords, danes, or french, but of the first hunter-gatherers to settle here. There is a level of admixture from several parts of Europe as waves of subsequent settlement occurred, but the vast majority of the influence was cultural rather than genetic, with typically about 5-10% of the population expressing evidence of any given admixture. There are very few actual anglo-saxons, those who share more than a small amount of their genetic heritage with actual saxons or other germanic peoples. The only people with significant relationship to the Normans are the aristocracy. Pick any random person, especially in the north and west, and you'll likely find someone whose ancestors have lived within the same region for ten thousand years, who only shares a genetic relationship with the continent because of those relatively recent admixtures.

We're native. I'm native. I'm an indigenous Briton. One side of my family has lived in the same 60*60 mile area for so long that I probably tread on their bones with every footstep. I have enough ancestral relationship to the original natives that I can categorically state I am one of them. Yet suddenly, because people like me have started to reach these understandings, "indigenous" has become a problematic word, blood quantum indigeneity becomes grotesquely offensive, and it becomes racially charged to speak of a genetic basis for ethnic differences, even though all of these things are de-facto national policy drivers for most of the "enlightened" world.
 
Last edited:
Maybe it would be more accurate to call them "breeds",
Let's just go with strains of human beings if Race is no longer a viable option of sanity.
It leaped out at me because it's part of a pattern of the intellectually capable being constrained by the limitations of others to understand it
Alternatively, it could be the arrogance of academia underestimating the general intelligence of a common lad or las. These are the same folks who think farms and fly over states are lousy with retarded people.
 
Can you stop shitting up every thread with your kike worship faggotry please? We get it, you like jew flavoured fairy tales.
Huh? I'm not a jew or into any fairy tales. You seem more into jew fairy tales (like evolution)like every other normie

How about you stop shitting up existence with your pedo-satan cult mythology, then ppl like me won't need to correct you...fair-trade?
 
Are you saying that dim white people should get less rights?

They actually do think this. Stats on the correlation between education and voting for globalist-leftist causes are trumpeted in the media constantly, often accompanied by lamenting that there is no intelligence test for voting. White liberals are genuinely completely unaware how dumb blacks are. This is what libs think a typical black woman is:

1709135532623.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They actually do think this. Stats on the correlation between education and voting for globalist-leftist causes are trumpeted in the media constantly, often accompanied by lamenting that there is no intelligence test for voting. White liberals are genuinely completely unaware how dumb blacks are. This is what libs think a typical black woman is:
Are these the same libs that thought requiring ID for voting would disenfranchise Black people because Black people couldn't figure out where a DMV office was?
 
Between prots and wignats I don't whose more insufferable.

Race is a real thing, ethnicity matters more though. I'd take working with a Nigerian immigrant over Shaniqua or Tyrone any day of the year.
 
Huh? I'm not a jew or into any fairy tales. You seem more into jew fairy tales (like evolution)like every other normie

How about you stop shitting up existence with your pedo-satan cult mythology, then ppl like me won't need to correct you...fair-trade?

Your worship Judaism 2.0 . What pedo cult? I don't recall the austrian painter going apeshit with love for Weimar, but you do you, you shining little skizo.
 
They actually do think this. Stats on the correlation between education and voting for globalist-leftist causes are trumpeted in the media constantly, often accompanied by lamenting that there is no intelligence test for voting. White liberals are genuinely completely unaware how dumb blacks are. This is what libs think a typical black woman is:

View attachment 5764668
no one tell them
it's funnier this way
 
Niggers are inferior and dysfunctional in every way conceivable to what we consider modern civilization. The Asians are servile slave peoples. Slavs are miserable yet enduring as a result. Arabs are violent, sex-crazy bastards. Indians are violent, sex-crazy bastards who love shit. Western Europeans are innovating yet have no in-group preference as a result of killing each other for hundreds of years. Aussie Aboriginals are arguably worse than niggers. The natives of the Americas were all violent peoples that ranged from what we consider normal to worshipping human sacrifice.

no one can say i am wrong
if i didn't mention a people, they weren't important enough to
 
The funniest aspect of clown world is the circus surrounding medical science. Medical advances are stymied in the name of political correctness, diagnosis and treatment is borked because God forbid the biological sex and race of the patient is taken into account. Some egghead could cure some subset of cancer that overwhelmingly affects a certain group but would be blacklisted from the field because they chose to focus on said group.
I actually think this is why some healthcare has worse results for blacks. Genetically Africa is more diverse than people realize. They just don’t think how someone with the same skin color can be in a different haplo group.
 
But we are different races. The article uses the weaselly ‘distinct’ when the groups can be a bit fuzzy around the edges, but we are composed of different subgroups. That that is controversial blows my mind. Take a swede and a Han Chinese - body on earth wouldn’t pick them out and assign them to different groups. The problem is that where biologists see difference they see a puzzle or an interesting datapoint. Where leftist progressives see a difference they see a hierarchy and where they see a hierarchy it means one is the baddie and one the goodie.

In reality, our swede and our Chinese are just slightly different subtypes of humanity. It’s their own racism that’s showing
It's hard to look at things like the species problem, the existence of ring species, and even things such as inter-genera breeding that shows that nature itself does not make so incredibly neat divisions of species... and it's hard not using the same logic to race. Obviously, there are clear clusters of characteristics in different people so stark that the average person can sort people into these groups with incredible accuracy.
 
It's hard to look at things like the species problem, the existence of ring species, and even things such as inter-genera breeding that shows that nature itself does not make so incredibly neat divisions of species... and it's hard not using the same logic to race. Obviously, there are clear clusters of characteristics in different people so stark that the average person can sort people into these groups with incredible accuracy.

Definately, and you can see things with wildcats and wolves. These can hybridize with domestic variants, but the offsprings are often unstable and tend to chimp out.

:thinking:
 
Im confused on why the data is controversial. Is this not just an incredibly complex and detailed Venn Diagram of human genetic traits? Like saying 90% of people with Gene Y were also found to have Gene Z, so Y people get plotted in a color blob next to and overlapping Z people?

Its pretty interesting though. I have had issues thinking about how race is actually defined, as in at what point in time could the genetic makeup of a group actually be called a specific race. Why am I considered half Native American and not considered Inuit since Native Americans are hypothisized to have come from the artic, etc? When did those groups actually become defined as separate, and why am I still considered Native American and not some new race, like just 'American' since most my ancestors have lived here for generations. (The answers are probably out there somewhere, but it would be interesting to categorize the exact expanse of the human genome)
 
Im confused on why the data is controversial. Is this not just an incredibly complex and detailed Venn Diagram of human genetic traits? Like saying 90% of people with Gene Y were also found to have Gene Z, so Y people get plotted in a color blob next to and overlapping Z people?

Its pretty interesting though. I have had issues thinking about how race is actually defined, as in at what point in time could the genetic makeup of a group actually be called a specific race. Why am I considered half Native American and not considered Inuit since Native Americans are hypothisized to have come from the artic, etc? When did those groups actually become defined as separate, and why am I still considered Native American and not some new race, like just 'American' since most my ancestors have lived here for generations. (The answers are probably out there somewhere, but it would be interesting to categorize the exact expanse of the human genome)
Basically the left likes to claim things like race and gender don't exist because there is no one single quality every member of these groups share, so therefore they don't exist. The answer to this idiocy is Ludwig Wittgenstein's "Family resemblance", a powerful idea that needs more traction in explaining and understanding these sorts of things. I can't remember where I heard someone make this comparison, it wasn't my original idea, but it's a more accurate way to describe how people actually categorize things.
 
Back