CN India is trying to become the new factory of the world, but it could take more than a global pandemic to unseat China from its 40-year reign

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India is trying to become the new factory of the world, but it could take more than a global pandemic to unseat China from its 40-year reign​


India's vying for a piece of China's pie in higher end manufacturing.Sajjad Hussain/AFP/Getty Images
  • China's zero-COVID policies are pushing companies to diversify supply chains away from the country.
  • They were already moving out due to geopolitical tensions and tariffs from the Trump era.
  • But it isn't easy to fully replace China's supply chain ecosystem in any country — even one as vast as India.
China's zero-COVID policy may just be doing what Donald Trump didn't manage to fully achieve during his term as president — shifting global supply chains away from China for the first time in 40 years.

In 2018 and 2019, Trump levied stiff tariffs against China to counter what he called unfair trade deals with the US, spurring retaliation from Beijing and kicking off a trade war.

And while many companies started discussing moving supply chains out of China as a way to distance themselves from geopolitical risks, it was really the pandemic — and China's zero-COVID policy — that drove home the importance of not depending on one country for its supply chain.

"The geopolitical tensions in themselves may not have resulted into this level of realignment of supply chains, but COVID certainly provided that extra vision extra fillip, the extra fuel to the fire," Ashutosh Sharma, a research director at market researcher Forrester, told Insider.

Tech giant Apple provides the latest example of being burned by an overreliance on Chinese production lines, with iPhone output hit by China's relentless zero-COVID pursuit. Apple is now speeding up its push to shift its production out of China to other Asian countries. But where to go?

Major Apple supplier Foxconn's top pick is India, and so is that of other chipmakers, after the Biden administration in October imposed export controls on shipping equipment to Chinese-owned factories making advanced logic chips.

"India has a large labor pool, a long history of manufacturing, and government support for boosting industry and exports. Because of this, many are exploring whether Indian manufacturing is a viable alternative to China," Julie Gerdeman, the CEO of supply chain risk management platform Everstream, told Insider.

But the move is easier said than done.

India is the world's largest democracy, and that makes decision-making a lot more complicated​

As a large economy with a young population, India has the potential to be a manufacturing powerhouse. But the South Asian country is also infamous for its bureaucracy and hindering red tape.

"It's far from a place where businesses can simply come in and open a shop without having too many company compliances," said Sharma, who is based in India. "I'm sure China has those issues too, but its ability to move fast on those compliance requirements is much higher than in India, because India is much more democratic and there are just too many stakeholders to satisfy here."

India came in at the 63rd position in a World Bank list of 190 countries ranked based on their ease of doing business in 2019. While this was an improvement from its position in the 142th position in 2014 when Prime Minister Narendra Modi took office — it still lagged behind China, which was in the 31st position in 2019 the last year the index was compiled before the World Bank discontinued it after a data rigging scandal. Data irregularities improved China's position in 2018, according to a World Bank audit published in December 2020.

India also has a history of protectionism, which makes it less competitive in terms of attracting large investments.

"China manufactures at scale, while most factories in India are small and midsize due to federal regulations and protections designed specifically for SMEs," said Gerdeman.

China has built a manufacturing ecosystem over 4 decades​

India's Prime Minister Modi has been working on attracting foreign direct investments, or FDI, since he took office in 2014, sending FDI to a record $83.6 billion in the last fiscal year, according to government data.

"India certainly has advantages in terms of demographics, in terms of geography, in terms of the infrastructure that exist, much of which has been built in the last few years," said Sharma. "It can obviously increase the scale, but what it does not have is all the pieces of the puzzle."

What he means is that China has managed to build up a value chain so extensive that almost everything required to make a product can be sourced and acquired in the country, which allows for low-cost manufacturing on a large scale. In contrast, India doesn't have this capability yet, which takes years to build up.

That's because manufacturers always start factory operations with the assembly line before starting to develop local supply lines for the finished products in a "backward integration" of processes, said Sharma.

"That supply chain takes time for it to build because even when you are sourcing it internally, the quality is not that good initially, your scale is not that high, and you run into those issues. So yes, it can be done, but it takes time," he told Insider.

Once burned, twice shy companies aren't going all in on India this time​

In any case, companies are unlikely to flock en masse to India like they did to China because it's just been proven too risky, the experts said.

And it's not just Foxconn and Apple that have gone all in on China and are now suffering for it: US sportswear giant Nike, Japanese carmaker Toyota, and South Korean tech titan Samsung all number among the many companies experiencing prolonged supply-chain issues because of their reliance on the manufacturing giant.

"They are looking to diversify their sourcing," said Sharma. "If you look at Foxconn and Apple, they have already moved a significant part of production to India and I'm sure to other countries like Vietnam, and a few other places. That's precisely because they want to diversify, from having dependency on one country, like China, to a couple of locations."

This means more complex supply chains, but they will be diversified all from raw material stages, he said.

"If they can build two or three dependable places where they can source from, they will still have alternative sources even if something happens to one location in the future," said Sharma.
 
India has a completely different work ethic and culture. East Asians literally work themselves to death and prefer to commit suicide than deal with a personal failure. This is the perfect kind of person to be exploited and ground into a pulp for the benefit of a capitalism.

People bitch shit from China is cheap and shitty, but guess what? China gives you exactly what you ask for and what you pay for. If things are cheap and shitty, blame the megacorps trying to cut corners are much as fucking possible that they ask the Chinese to make the cheapest, shittiest things possible.

In India, you're just going to get shit, because that's what they make.
Null you really can't trust china about anything. They lie worse than Todd Howard. Pic related. Now imagine this level of lying for everything.

If you want to be a chiaboo at least praise Taiwan.
 

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India is exactly the same shit as China and trying to prop them to stick it to the Chinese is going to be as gigantic a mistake as trying to prop up the Chinese to stick it to the Soviets was. Oh yeah and propping up the Soviets to stick it to the Nazis.

Both of these nations have delusions of grandeur, a desire to dominate and will cheat and backstab you, it's just that India has thus far been too incompetent to actually pull it off to the degree that China has plus the West didn't really start to bother investing in India like they did in China until the late 2000s.

Both of these shitholes should be ideally left to rot.
 
I honestly don't believe in the high IQ chink meme. They still have large swathes of the population living like medieval peasants, working the fields with water buffalo. Remember that the ones in America are going to be significantly more intelligent than the average simply by virtue of selection bias. Add in China's tendency to grossly overstate their successes, and I find it hard to believe that their economic success isn't more to do with the huge population, bugman mentality and CCP tyranny.
Yeah, and non-H1B Indians in the U.S. turn out to be at least moderately competent, usually associated with convenience stores and low-end motels.
 
I honestly don't believe in the high IQ chink meme. They still have large swathes of the population living like medieval peasants, working the fields with water buffalo. Remember that the ones in America are going to be significantly more intelligent than the average simply by virtue of selection bias. Add in China's tendency to grossly overstate their successes, and I find it hard to believe that their economic success isn't more to do with the huge population, bugman mentality and CCP tyranny.
The ones who come here tend to be brighter.
 
The main reason China was so prolific as a factory for the USA is because it was just across an ocean. You make something and then 2 weeks later it arrives and due to labor costs being far lower you don't need to pay anywhere near as much as you would normally.

India is not just across an ocean you need to cross directly over Myanmar via a plane or through the Bay of Bengal. India is also significantly not as ideal to manufacture in as China due to its geography and climate. It wasn't just "this country had a lot of people" that caused people to wanna manufacture in China it was just an extremely convenient option for companies to exploit. If China stops being a convenient option they'll just move to another extremely convenient option they also already use like Mexico.
 
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shit man a 4chan post, wow, i know a lot more about ONE BILLION PEOPLE now.

You mean one billion of the most homogeneous people on earth, whose culture and education system revolves around making sure they all match the same template, inherit the same values and practice the exact same methodologies as every other member of their culture? The same culture that imprisons and murders anyone who doesn't follow that culture and attempts to spread counter-cultural messages? A culture that follows Confucian teachings which say that elders are literally unquestionable and that the senior method of doing things is automatically the correct one, regardless of what physical reality might indicate?

Sometimes, stereotypes exist for a reason.
 
most homogeneous people on earth,

Keep in mind even minorities tend to identify as Han, but to say China is completely homogenous is to say africa is all just black people. That kind of thinking is part of why Africa is such a gigantic shithole with constant ethnic tensions.

As recently as 1850 there was the Taiping Rebellion which was partially because the leader Hong Xiuquan was a Hakka Chinese and the Qing Dynasty was Manchu, neither of which were Han (Hakka is apparently considered a Han subgroup, so that 90% is shakier than it sounds).


Ethnic disharmony is one of the major contributors to the cultural revolutions in China. When racial hatred can be shifted to class hatred, it's strong enough to rebuild a country.

Basically, Westerner threatened by China continues to plug ears and go "them Chanks can't do nuttin but SCHTEAL from the HUWITE MAN" over and over again. It's a very interesting country with a diverse people and 2000+ years of history. Give it some credit.
 
India already has the market cornered on pharmaceutical manufacturing. How the least hygienic people in the world got that gig is beyond me.
it is called opium, and a lot of it. For anything more complicated, it gets made in Switzerland.
 
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Keep in mind even minorities tend to identify as Han, but to say China is completely homogenous is to say africa is all just black people. That kind of thinking is part of why Africa is such a gigantic shithole with constant ethnic tensions.

As recently as 1850 there was the Taiping Rebellion which was partially because the leader Hong Xiuquan was a Hakka Chinese and the Qing Dynasty was Manchu, neither of which were Han.


Ethnic disharmony is one of the major contributors to the cultural revolutions in China. When racial hatred can be shifted to class hatred, it's strong enough to rebuild a country.

Basically, Westerner threatened by China continues to plug ears and go "them Chanks can't do nuttin but SCHTEAL from the HUWITE MAN" over and over again. It's a very interesting country with a diverse people and 2000+ years of history. Give it some credit.
You seem to have fallen for the Chicom propaganda. All this 'ethnic diversity' in PRC is a thing of the past. The communists made sure of that.
 
You seem to have fallen for the Chicom propaganda. All this 'ethnic diversity' in PRC is a thing of the past. The communists made sure of that.
>someone disagrees with you
>wow this poor victim of propaganda

I also enjoy how you decided to negrate that post you responded to. You see something you disagree with and your immediate response is to go for reddit downvote + "you are brainwashed". This is why A&H posters are treated like the niggers of this website. There is zero reason to try and talk about something you're interested in an acrid environment of political team sports.
 
Is Null seriously shilling for the fucking Chinese? Pro tip Null, but Mao and the Commies did as much as they could to wreck those 2k+ years of history with Year Zero bullshit like the Cultural Revolution. They are inimically opposed to someone like you who wants to maintain a repository of knowledge, past and present.
You seem to have fallen for the Chicom propaganda. All this 'ethnic diversity' in PRC is a thing of the past. The communists made sure of that.
Na, it exists, but the ChiComs have slapped a whole bunch of them under the Han umbrella, which is how you get 90+% of the people being Han. The Hakka Chinese Null brought up are considered Han by Beijing, and at their roughly 80 million there would be far more of them than the 15 million Zhuang that are next in line after the Han if they were separated out. Some of the indigenous Hainanese are considered Han despite not speaking a Han tongue at all.
 
China will probably find a way to undercut even India in pricing, unless there are larger geopolitical reasons for the U.S. switching to India for manufacturing over China other than cost.
 
Is Null seriously shilling for the fucking Chinese? Pro tip Null, but Mao and the Commies did as much as they could to wreck those 2k+ years of history with Year Zero bullshit like the Cultural Revolution. They are inimically opposed to someone like you who wants to maintain a repository of knowledge, past and present.

Na, it exists, but the ChiComs have slapped a whole bunch of them under the Han umbrella, which is how you get 90+% of the people being Han. The Hakka Chinese Null brought up are considered Han by Beijing, and at their roughly 80 million there would be far more of them than the 15 million Zhuang that are next in line after the Han if they were separated out. Some of the indigenous Hainanese are considered Han despite not speaking a Han tongue at all.
It's weird to see Null participating in an A&N thread...he's made it clear he hates the section (not exclusively, he also thinks DSP forum posters are subhuman).

Null isn't simping for China but he hasn't brought up the whole Uygur situation and how the current regime wants to stomp out their people and culture, whichever comes first.
 

Keep in mind even minorities tend to identify as Han, but to say China is completely homogenous is to say africa is all just black people. That kind of thinking is part of why Africa is such a gigantic shithole with constant ethnic tensions.

As recently as 1850 there was the Taiping Rebellion which was partially because the leader Hong Xiuquan was a Hakka Chinese and the Qing Dynasty was Manchu, neither of which were Han (Hakka is apparently considered a Han subgroup, so that 90% is shakier than it sounds).


Ethnic disharmony is one of the major contributors to the cultural revolutions in China. When racial hatred can be shifted to class hatred, it's strong enough to rebuild a country.

Basically, Westerner threatened by China continues to plug ears and go "them Chanks can't do nuttin but SCHTEAL from the HUWITE MAN" over and over again. It's a very interesting country with a diverse people and 2000+ years of history. Give it some credit.

Tell me something, you're old enough to remember how the internet used to be in the 00's. You remember when there were hundreds of different websites and hundreds of different ways of doing things. What happened to all of that in less than fifteen years? Did the people behind those independent movements all vanish? Are they all dead?

The answer is no; they're still there, they've just been subsumed. Culture works the same way. As you admitted, even Chinese ethnic minorities tend to identify as Han. Why is that? It's because the central government tolerates no other identity. Chinese culture was essentially obliterated under Mao, because he knew that cultural differences were a rallying point for insurrectionist movements. Mao's goal was to destroy any external source of morality or higher identity (aka identity associated with a cause that transcended human interference, such as God, cultural myth, etc) in the nation and replace them with unwavering allegiance to the State. By and large he succeeded, and we're only now seeing the cracks.

To a traditional Western perspective, this is literally unthinkable. We are not raised in cultures that think like this. It is not natural to us, nor is it easy to comprehend. But it has been normalized within China for nearly 100 years. The oldest man alive today does not remember life before Mao with enough clarity to pass that legacy on to his children. The kind of ethnic diversity and ethnic identity that you perceive as a Westerner simply doesn't exist in China, because they perceive it entirely differently. Ethnic identity is consciously compartmentalized and assigned a lower moral value than state and political identity. This is an intentional act of social engineering, and one of the most successful in human history.

For an overwhelming majority of Chinese people alive today, ethnic identity is a functionally meaningless part of their overall identity, which is overwhelmingly governed by and defined by the State. It is no more important to them than the Catholic parts of the Christmas celebration are to a secular man who has never attended church in his life. He knows they exist, probably, and that at one point they might've held some relevance to the way his ancestors performed this same ceremony. But that doesn't influence his mentality, his moral compass, or the way he lives his life. If the State decided to replace baby Jesus with a black baby in nativity plays throughout this man's town, he might shake his head and be a bit confused, but that's all, even though to another kind of person, this would be an unthinkable act of sacrilege and a reason for protest.

As I said before; stereotypes exist for a reason. I'm a student of history, culture and various other similar subjects myself. These pithy little statements we make are just a layman's way of communicating a very complicated idea, which still fundamentally holds true even when boiled down to its most basic elements.
 
Are you trying to tell me that the Chinese government promoting its national identity is a bad thing? Are you also telling me that because the Chinese promote its national values, that includes SHTEALING from da HUWITE MAN? I don't get it.

Just say you hate chinks and call it a day, jesus christ. I don't care if you're racist just say you are instead of pretending you're on some superlevel of enlightenment.
 
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