Is the West better? - Regarding freedom/human rights/oligarchs

[Osmosis Jones]

we already are there my man
there's a reason you only see this expressed on obscure anonymous internet forums by users behind multiple VPNs or TOR layers, because expressing dissident opinions with your real identity attached can and will literally get you thrown in prison across most of europe

You don't have great reading comprehension. You should probably just stop.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

Iran where they force women to wear veils is full of vain whores with nose jobs.

Or places like the uae or saudi arabia where plastic surgery is so fucking common that you have 15 year old girls having a plastic surgery and also lol at the hijab part @gang weeder look no further than arabian snapchat and the meme of morocoocan women being viewed as the russian women of the middle east by arab men

 

[Smolrolls]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple identarian interest groups publicly celebrating the demographic decline of white people. The study itself that I was referencing was using a data set of live births from 2016 and published by the NCHS in 2017. White live births have gradually restablized, however marginally, over that of Hispanics within the latter half of the 2010s.

The hate the whites have over themselves, the fact they'd celebrate said low white-birth rates and not have children themselves in blue cities is so astounding its suicidal. Can anyone tell me why this is so? Because this doesn't seem like a trend or for social media points, yet sometimes it doesn't feel like they mean it when they hate themselves for being half-white. As in they're rascist towards black people, especially people like Kanye West who doesn't seem to say and stay in an ideological leash.

 

[Smolrolls]

You're assuming I'm ignorant. As a matter of fact, you and I probably have a lot of ideological overlap. I recognize Leftism and its products. I recognize the complete and utter failure of Western systems. 'Leftist' is far more general and accurate for what I think you're trying to say. Even if we're talking about the rise of Leftism, the West still wins. You've contrived a narrative where every Western nation is openly promoting chopping your bits off and changing your gender and the East is somehow promoting whiteness and Christianity and morality. Newsflash: God is dead and that doesn't change because you move to an impoverished backwater Slavic shithole. Morality is still dead there, too, it just doesn't look the same.

Keep trying to convince people that the East is somehow better. It won't work. I bet you're not even old enough to have seen shit like Waco unfold live. The world is a bad place, and the West is certainly irredeemable at this point, but the East has been irredeemable for far, far longer. Everything the East does is a knock-off cheapened version of what the west does. This applies to politics, leadership, products, and economics.

I will add that this guy's right about the East Imitating the west. East stagnate for thousands of years, West gradually advancing in technology, exploration, etc... Its only when the West threatened the East's whether through culture, science, military and all of the above, as in full force during the colonial period, unlike when say China was trading with the Roman empire, that the East decided to advance; Meiji Restoration in Japan.

Never rocking the boat, hammering the nail that's loose above the board; the only time the east rise is when their very boats are rocked.

 

[Some Badger]

The hate the whites have over themselves, the fact they'd celebrate said low white-birth rates and not have children themselves in blue cities is so astounding its suicidal. Can anyone tell me why this is so? Because this doesn't seem like a trend or for social media points, yet sometimes it doesn't feel like they mean it when they hate themselves for being half-white. As in they're rascist towards black people, especially people like Kanye West who doesn't seem to say and stay in an ideological leash.

I'd argue it's largely performative. A lot of white liberals and liberal-adjacent fencesitters will throw their own race under the bus in order to feel accepted. It's a shared cycle of delusion among the Left where if you're white but don't vocally denounce white people on a casual basis, then everyone is gonna assume you're a white supremacist; you're not an ally, you're one of the bad ones!

White people put down other white people to appease fellow white people, and I'm lumping in Jews as white people for the sake of argument too.

 

[Ser Prize]

The hate the whites have over themselves, the fact they'd celebrate said low white-birth rates and not have children themselves in blue cities is so astounding its suicidal. Can anyone tell me why this is so? Because this doesn't seem like a trend or for social media points, yet sometimes it doesn't feel like they mean it when they hate themselves for being half-white. As in they're rascist towards black people, especially people like Kanye West who doesn't seem to say and stay in an ideological leash.

White self hatred was beat into them over many generations, with varying versions of "original sin" that they must atone for(Slavery, nazis, etc). This is intentional, as it makes it so white societies cannot promote their own self interest lest they be smeared.

 

[gang weeder]

You both realize you've just gone from preferring a state that agrees with your values to preferring a totalitarian dictatorship that actively seeks to rip what it views as rot from its system. That's all fun and games until you've become the rot. If you live in a western civilization, you are the rot to the Left. Moving somewhere else does not prevent you from becoming rot, it only moves the goalposts a little further away from you for the time.

Goddamn, it took you long enough to just come out and say you would enjoy fascist dictatorship. Good news, boys, there's lots of it.

I've said pretty clearly that I'm talking about substance and care much less about form. Forms of government are means to an end, that end being good policy. A particular form of government does not have any inherent legitimacy if it is producing bad policy outcomes. Thus I don't have any particular attachment to the inherent value of (((democracy))). I would rather live in a dictatorship that suppresses degeneracy and promotes right action than a democracy which does the opposite. Likewise I would happily take a democracy that suppresses degeneracy and promotes right action over a dictatorship that does the opposite. Also the idea that the west is democratic is a joke, it's an oligarchy pretending to be a democracy to keep sheep like you docile, but really that's besides the point.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I've said pretty clearly that I'm talking about substance and care much less about form. Forms of government are means to an end, that end being good policy. A particular form of government does not have any inherent legitimacy if it is producing bad policy outcomes. Thus I don't have any particular attachment to the inherent value of (((democracy))). I would rather live in a dictatorship that suppresses degeneracy and promotes right action than a democracy which does the opposite. Likewise I would happily take a democracy that suppresses degeneracy and promotes right action over a dictatorship that does the opposite. Also the idea that the west is democratic is a joke, it's an oligarchy pretending to be a democracy to keep sheep like you docile, but really that's besides the point.

Do you understand the consequences of a governing body having that sort of power, even if the state initially aligns 100% to the letter with your views?

Do you understand that what you want is precisely the same thing as what Leftists want, but with different ends?

Do you understand that stepping out of line in a totalitarian system even a little will make your life complete hell?

You're calling me a sheep but you're asking for a shepherd for your moral values because your worldview can't process differentiating perspectives, to the point that you'd rather run straight into a totalitarian system than let things play out in a healthier, wealthier, better off society. To run to another nation, especially an Eastern nation, is to say "here, Troons. You can have all that I know and love and I will go live in a hovel."

We have some power in the Western oligarchic systems. Case in point being the trucker convoy in Canada. There still are a substantial number of people in the west that do not want things to go this way. For places in the East, they've been controlled so long that they've given up completely. Look at Russia. Protest war and conflict? Straight to jail. There is absolute zero hope of regaining freedoms in the East. It is not the same case here, other than for people like you who want to give up and run away.

 

[gang weeder]

Do you understand that what you want is precisely the same thing as what Leftists want, but with different ends?

No, leftists want totalitarianism. I want not-degeneracy.

Do you understand the consequences of a governing body having that sort of power, even if the state initially aligns 100% to the letter with your views?

They'll get really corrupt and abusive? Yeah, that would be horrible. Wouldn't want to have to deal with an overbearing corrupt abusive government. Horrible situation, that.

Do you understand that stepping out of line in a totalitarian system even a little will make your life complete hell?

You mean like getting fired and unpersoned for not wanting to take a forced injection? Yeah, I've been pretty close to that. Only dodged it cause I live in burgerland. Idk how people in places Australia could cope. They had lockdowns over there where you were banned from going more than like 1 km from your house, and you could only step outside to buy groceries or medicine. And if you violate anything you get hauled off to """quarantine camp.""" Boy, it sure is a good thing they didn't give their government the power to abuse them over there! I bet they were scoffing at all those silly "authoritarian" countries in the dirty third world!

You're calling me a sheep but you're asking for a shepherd for your moral values because your worldview can't process differentiating perspectives, to the point that you'd rather run straight into a totalitarian system than let things play out in a healthier, wealthier, better off society. To run to another nation, especially an Eastern nation, is to say "here, Troons. You can have all that I know and love and I will go live in a hovel."

I never said once I'm going to run to another nation, I actually said elsewhere in the thread that I have no intention of "going east" because I wouldn't be wanted over there, although I'd consider it if they were begging for whitey to come enrich them the way that we beg for niggers to immigrate to here. I just ran to a relatively less fagged up part of my own country. My own personal living situation has nothing to do with the topic of whether "the West" as a broad cultural sphere and its associated governments are evil/fucked up by comparisons to other regions of the globe.

We have some power in the Western oligarchic systems. Case in point being the trucker convoy in Canada. There still are a substantial number of people in the west that do not want things to go this way. For places in the East, they've been controlled so long that they've given up completely. Look at Russia. Protest war and conflict? Straight to jail. There is absolute zero hope of regaining freedoms in the East. It is not the same case here, other than for people like you who want to give up and run away.

Oh yeah muh trucker convoy! Boomers to the rescue! We drove some trucks around and made a lot of noise, the deep state is totally owned now guys! You do realize Trudeau started seizing bank accounts of people who were even vaguely connected to that shit, right? The heckin' trucker convoy is probably one of the best examples I could use to demonstrate the futility of """protest""" and the boot-stomping that you can expect to receive as thanks. This is why I call you a sheep, cause you see some shit like that and you start cooming over how the based and redpilled boomers are totally gonna take our freedumbs back, ya'll. That's exactly the sort of mindset that keeps a lot of the population docile and in line, the idea that you're somehow sticking it to the ruling regime with prootestin' and vootin'.

 

[Steampunk Laura Palmer]

Most Americans only being able to read in their native English and its consequences have been a disaster for their perception of what it's like to live in one of those based Eastern countries.

There's an age-old Russian joke where a Russian and an American argue about who has more frozen peaches back home. The American says he can go stand right in front of the White House and shout that Reagan is an idiot. The Russian shrugs and goes "So what? I too can stand in the Red Square and shout that Reagan is an idiot."

Basically, if you're looking to move to a place like Russia or China and stay in your cozy American bubble of "but muh niggers and troons," you may be good to go as long as you keep your remote job. Try discussing anything that matters though and see where it gets you. As someone from a post-Soviet country who lived in Russia for some time, I can assure you you'd be quite disappointed with the outcome.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Or places like the uae or saudi arabia where plastic surgery is so fucking common that you have 15 year old girls having a plastic surgery and also lol at the hijab part @gang weeder look no further than arabian snapchat and the meme of morocoocan women being viewed as the russian women of the middle east by arab men

How popular is plastic surgery there, in comparison to South Korea, where the obsession with vanity is to the point that it's required (?) for women to get jobs?

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

How popular is plastic surgery there, in comparison to South Korea, where the obsession with vanity is to the point that it's required (?) for women to get jobs?

Well its not required but at this point 90% of arabian social media stars that are women have plastic surgery and the surgery can go from simple shit like botox to FUCKING REMOVING THE BONE and the bone in question is needed if you want to have kids or basically de facto infertile

 

[Osmosis Jones]

Oh yeah muh trucker convoy! Boomers to the rescue! We drove some trucks around and made a lot of noise, the deep state is totally owned now guys! You do realize Trudeau started seizing bank accounts of people who were even vaguely connected to that shit, right? The heckin' trucker convoy is probably one of the best examples I could use to demonstrate the futility of """protest""" and the boot-stomping that you can expect to receive as thanks. This is why I call you a sheep, cause you see some shit like that and you start cooming over how the based and redpilled boomers are totally gonna take our freedumbs back, ya'll. That's exactly the sort of mindset that keeps a lot of the population docile and in line, the idea that you're somehow sticking it to the ruling regime with prootestin' and vootin'.

I'm ignoring the rest of your post because you're still trying to convince me that your particular brand of totalitarianism isn't bad because it doesn't include Leftist degeneracy.

You've completely failed to understand the consequences of such a large scale protest on a capital city and what the implications would be in "moral" Eastern countries. I'm not even going to begin to bring up all of the times Eastern countries have massacred their own people for protesting or dissenting over the last 100 years - often by hundreds or thousands - for what was at the time perceived or contrived as degeneracy. You're gonna have to work a lot harder than pointing at the West and making angry autism noises to convince me that somehow Eastern countries are morally superior. They aren't.

Moving the goalposts and saying that Leftism is now wrongthink does not resolve the problem of the busted Western system, it just changes the Home and Away teams.

 

[gang weeder]

I'm ignoring the rest of your post because you're still trying to convince me that your particular brand of totalitarianism isn't bad because it doesn't include Leftist degeneracy.

Again, I don't want totalitarianism, I just want not-degeneracy. I want it to be at least as unacceptable to do any of the destructive shit that is currently celebrated (whoring, fagging, trooning, etc.) as it is to be a """racist.""" Whether that is achieved through outright bans and censorship, softer methods such as changing of social norms, or some combination, I don't really care. I just want the problem dealt with.

Moving the goalposts and saying that Leftism is now wrongthink does not resolve the problem of the busted Western system, it just changes the Home and Away teams.

And what is your brilliant solution to the busted Western system, if you acknowledge that it's busted? Drive some trucks around and voote harder to voote in corrupt degenerate #2 to replace corrupt degenerate #1?

 

[Osmosis Jones]

Again, I don't want totalitarianism, I just want not-degeneracy. I want it to be at least as unacceptable to do any of the destructive shit that is currently celebrated (whoring, fagging, trooning, etc.) as it is to be a """racist.""" Whether that is achieved through outright bans and censorship, softer methods such as changing of social norms, or some combination, I don't really care. I just want the problem dealt with.


And what is your brilliant solution to the busted Western system, if you acknowledge that it's busted? Drive some trucks around and voote harder to voote in corrupt degenerate #2 to replace corrupt degenerate #1?

A system that "deals with" certain groups by installing policies against them is a totalitarian system. It requires control, subjugation, and obedience on part of everyone.

The solution is fuck you nigger I'm not going to fedpost.

 

[Kiwi & Cow]

>I don't want totalitarianism.
>I want my government to lynch jews, gays, trannies and black people; Also women should become property again.

 

[ShittlerNiggler]

The west because my family lived here for like forever.
Imagine wanting to abandon your family, home, friends and ancestors legacy just because your place sucks since <50 years instead of making it any better.

 

[gang weeder]

A system that "deals with" certain groups by installing policies against them is a totalitarian system. It requires control, subjugation, and obedience on part of everyone.

The solution is fuck you nigger I'm not going to fedpost.

Like I said, I want all the degeneracy to be made at least as unacceptable as it currently is to be "racist." Do you think we live in a totalitarian state currently, because of all the obstacles both formal but mostly informal to expressing "racist" sentiments? I'm assuming not.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

Like I said, I want all the degeneracy to be made at least as unacceptable as it currently is to be "racist." Do you think we live in a totalitarian state currently, because of all the obstacles both formal but mostly informal to expressing "racist" sentiments? I'm assuming not.

>I want what the left wants but for my ideals

Retard.

 

[gang weeder]

>I want what the left wants but for my ideals

Retard.

So you are agreeing that western culture is currently "totalitarian" in its enforcement of certain norms regarding race, sex, etc.?