Is the West better? - Regarding freedom/human rights/oligarchs

[gang weeder]

Sure. Thing is the average western shithole is better that most eastern upstanding neighborhoods. So it's not really the same.

No, but you see, if something exists at all in one place, but then also exists at all in another place, that means the two places are actually literally exactly the same. This is your logic, remember?

Well then pay attention, citizens banding together to take power over the education of their children against insane degeneracy is happening all across the United States. A literal impossibility in the countries whose toes you are sucking.

Yes you're fine with degeneracy like institutionalized rape in the countries you admire and it's totes different from degeneracy in the West because. Stop being retarded.

What norm is being promoted when political prisoners are beaten and starved and raped in Russia or China or Belarus? None you dummy. They aren't being brutalized to save heterosexuality and the two parent family. They're being brutalized to maintain the power of the State. You are a dumb child.

Wowzers, the heckin' citizens are saving the education of their children!!!1 As if the problem is magically over now that a few boomers realized it's happening. Expecting the based Republicans to save you, and you call me a dumb child. I'm sorry but I'm just not quite that gullible. When the tranny shit is completely gone and done and it's been made as unacceptable to be a tranny as it is to be a racist, then I might start to consider that maybe our culture isn't a lost cause. It's a pretty long journey from point A where we are now to that as point Z, and a few boomers yelling in school meetings doesn't even get us to point B.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

No, but you see, if something exists at all in one place, but then also exists at all in another place, that means the two places are actually literally exactly the same. This is your logic, remember?

Then why do hordes of arabian orcs, spoiled chink progeny and the whole of the Russian elite go west? Is it because of the food?

 

[Osmosis Jones]

When I start believing that maybe I will feel differently. Until then, our culture is indefensible, and I simply don't care about excuses. Yes, I'm fine with dictators by comparison (the idea that our own government isn't tyrannical I find to be ridiculous, but whatever). Yes, I'm fine with the government being brutal and throwing people in jail, by comparison to enabling trannyshit. Every government is abusive to groups that violate norms. The question is what norms are being promoted and which ones are being persecuted. I am fine with a government that is far more brutal in the course of promoting norms that are far less degenerate.

What is defensible about:
A) Taking political prisoners for dissenting (China)
B) Forcing women to be possessions and forcing them to wear full body coverage (Middle East)
C) Alcoholism being a celebrated national pastime and being a dredge is acceptable (Russia/Eastern sphere)
D) Making monkey noises and setting each other on fire for being witches (Africa)

Seriously, I want to know what's so attractive about the other extremes that exist. The West is certainly tame by many measures.

 

[gang weeder]

Then why do hordes of arabian orcs, spoiled chink progeny and the whole of the Russian elite go west? Is it because of the food?

I don't know, dude. Different countries are literally exactly the same with no meaningful differences, so I don't know why they would bother. It's a mystery yeah.

 

[Homophobic white dog]

Are you meaning to say that we should be allowed to do everything and anything we want including stealing and/or murdering other people? I'm not a fan of totalitarianism, but that's literally anarchy what you're describing there and I really think that's stepping too far.

Of course not, what I mean is that a third world people is still able to take matters in their own hands, while western people are entirely dependent on increasingly-authoritarian and arbitrary state power to take any decision for their lives.
Dude, this isn't even anymore the state enforcing some guy's property rights or preventing people from getting murdered, in Italy where I live, New Normal is the state deciding whether you're a hazard for the health of others or not, my country has been the most fanatic about all this. As they'd say in the US, we aren't in Kansas anymore.
People can't work, they can't attend university (me) live, they're fucking kicked out of trains, busses (often to the cheering of others) and post offices, when they're lucky they can do a service OUTSIDE of an establishment because the owner is "so good", just yesterday I had to stand OUTSIDE of a bookstore to bind a summary for an exam. All of this is an enormity, it's fucking torture. And do you know what's the worst part of this? Realistically none of this is even enforceable by the cops, they can't be everywhere at once to check whether people have the document or not, IT'S THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES FUELING THIS HORROR, ENFORCING laws like these and asking for that fucking paper when there isn't even a need for it.
Do you know how horrible it is to live in a country in which each and every one of your neighbours is a cop and a snitch?
Unlike other countries, Italy isn't even retiring the jab certificates, which will combine with digital identities and mandatory e-payment platforms in a year or two.
There is no going back from all this, this is every developed country's fate.

Do you know what fuels totalitarianism from below? The belief that people can't be trusted with their own decisions. Now you aren't even trusted when you say your health is fine, you have to 'prove' it every time.

BTW you can always join AntiFa or the Boogaloo Boys if you don't like democracy, they also want anarchy for who knows why.

I live in Italy, we have nothing like that.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

I don't know, dude. Different countries are literally exactly the same with no meaningful differences, so I don't know why they would bother. It's a mystery yeah.

Ever hear the joke that the Berlin Wall was built because communism was so good they had to build a wall around it so no one would escape it's glorious'ness?

 

[gang weeder]

What is defensible about:
A) Taking political prisoners for dissenting (China)
B) Forcing women to be possessions and forcing them to wear full body coverage (Middle East)
C) Alcoholism being a celebrated national pastime and being a dredge is acceptable (Russia/Eastern sphere)
D) Making monkey noises and setting each other on fire for being witches (Africa)

Seriously, I want to know what's so attractive about the other extremes that exist. The West is certainly tame by many measures.

It's all defensible relative to what. You are fixated on Bad Things that happen in other places and speak as if there is nothing bad going on here to compare it to.

A) I'd rather that than my kids being taught to troon. Again, it's also rich to pretend our own society allows much dissent against the government, but whatever. Even if we pretend that somehow we actually have the heckin' Freeze Peach, I'll trade that off in exchange for less degeneracy.
B) By comparison to teaching women that being a whore is great and the most important thing in life is to work for govt/corpo in a heckin' career? If I asked a Muslim to defend his norms about women and he just pointed to OnlyFans I might have to cede him the point.
C) As if our culture doesn't encourage massive drug use and being useless.
D) Africa I will grant you, I might still prefer the west to there. It's Africa.

 

[Meat Target]

It is. I like being able to breathe clean air, flush the toilet, and not get murdered if I go outside.

 

[Spunt]

The West is both a better place to live than pretty much anywhere else for the average pleb and better in terms of morality, ethics and government. Both those advantages are diminishing rapidly. Democratic institutions are disintegrating, globalism is trying to crush the average Joe and living standards are dropping.

I'm not convinced, however, that Russia or China will become the dominant powers for centuries if at all. Russia's economy is a joke and the whole country is barely holding together through the state's massive neglect of its people and infrastructure. Russia is a real Emperor's New Clothes situation, if they didn't have nuclear weapons they would be also-rans - they have the same GDP per capita as Nigeria ffs. Their economy is entirely dependent on primary industry, which is Putin's fault as he neglected to maintain a manufacturing base or build a service economy, so essentially Russia has gone backwards since Communism when they were at least good at making things rather than just pulling stuff out of the ground. Brutality, propaganda and a really nihilist culture are the only things preventing it becoming a failed state, and when Putin goes there will probably be famines.

China is sitting on an economic and demographic timebomb. Their workforce as a percentage of their population is falling as a result of the One Child Policy. They desperately want to move to a service economy like the West but their GDP per capita is too low, but it's too high to be an outsourcing base the way Indonesia or Pakistan are. They're trying to effectively colonise Africa as somewhere they can outsource heavy industry to but it's not working - partly because China is too poor and in catastrophic debt, partly because Africa is too fucked to become functional in the time that China needs it to be. China's economy will collapse, there will be food shortages, maybe more disease outbreaks, and the state won't be able to stay together. If you study history you'll know that Chinese civil wars are ... quite a thing. Mass-genocide, scorched earth, cruelty and brutality that not even the Arabs can match.

Speaking of the Arabs, they're fucked too, though perhaps not as imminently as the Russians and Chinese. They're trying to Westernise before their oil runs out, but they're making similar mistakes to the Chinese by forcing economic changes that their existing economy can't sustain. In a century or two they'll be back to slitting each other's throats over patches of desert like they have always done before. The entire Middle East is based on three-way mutual loathing and hair-trigger tension between Israel, Saudi Arabia/UAE and Iran. The next time one of those cold wars goes hot there will probably be WMDs deployed, maybe even nukes. Iran has them, Israel is almost certainly hiding them somewhere and you bet the Saudis have a hush-hush nuclear program too.

If you think Discord Trannies are a bigger problem than China's "re-education camps", Russia's poverty and brutality and Africa's, well, everything then you really need to see more of the world and/or sort out your priorities. Literal First World Problems. I'm not delusional, the West is on a really dark path right now and problems in the rest of the world will fuck it even worse (witness a war between two relative economic backwaters making it too expensive for many Americans to commute to work), but the rest of the world is even more fucked and unlikely to improve.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

China is teetering on the verge of economic collapse, I believe it's far more likely they literally cannibalize each other.

Yes. Just two more weeks to flatten the curve. For the invasion.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

It's all defensible relative to what. You are fixated on Bad Things that happen in other places and speak as if there is nothing bad going on here to compare it to.

A) I'd rather that than my kids being taught to troon. Again, it's also rich to pretend our own society allows much dissent against the government, but whatever. Even if we pretend that somehow we actually have the heckin' Freeze Peach, I'll trade that off in exchange for less degeneracy.
B) By comparison to teaching women that being a whore is great and the most important thing in life is to work for govt/corpo in a heckin' career? If I asked a Muslim to defend his norms about women and he just pointed to OnlyFans I might have to cede him the point.
C) As if our culture doesn't encourage massive drug use and being useless.
D) Africa I will grant you, I might still prefer the west to there. It's Africa.

A) People still don't get 'disappeared' for wrongthink. I agree that the West is no pillar of uncensored speech, and we're quickly reaching a point similar to that of China, but we're not there and China isn't slowing down on it.
B) I see where your priorities lie with women. You know that you can teach your daughter shit and that you can regulate the attitudes she develops? It's not up to society to raise someone for you.
C) No, but at least we try to put stops in place to make it less accessible and reduce harm. It's not effective everywhere, but if you go to Russia it's normal to drink all the time - as much as one might smoke. It's nowhere close to the attitudes we see here, despite widespread drug abuse being commonplace.
D) Ooga booga where all the white women at

 

[gang weeder]

A) People still don't get 'disappeared' for wrongthink. I agree that the West is no pillar of uncensored speech, and we're quickly reaching a point similar to that of China, but we're not there and China isn't slowing down on it.
B) I see where your priorities lie with women. You know that you can teach your daughter shit and that you can regulate the attitudes she develops? It's not up to society to raise someone for you.
C) No, but at least we try to put stops in place to make it less accessible and reduce harm. It's not effective everywhere, but if you go to Russia it's normal to drink all the time - as much as one might smoke. It's nowhere close to the attitudes we see here, despite widespread drug abuse being commonplace.
D) Ooga booga where all the white women at

I think you have a failure to distinguish between form and substance. I am much more concerned with the latter and not nearly as much with the former. I would gladly accept a government that is more brutal and authoritarian if it's more often directed at the right targets, or at least not being used to actively help and promote the wrong values. If anything I would prefer a government that cracks down hard on the people who deserve it. Other lifestyle values and norms exist and matter besides only the ability to call your govt corrupt.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I think you have a failure to distinguish between form and substance. I am much more concerned with the latter and not nearly as much with the former. I would gladly accept a government that is more brutal and authoritarian if it's more often directed at the right targets, or at least not being used to actively help and promote the wrong values. If anything I would prefer a government that cracks down hard on the people who deserve it. Other lifestyle values and norms exist and matter besides only the ability to call your govt corrupt.

You've been given an objective question and you're giving subjective answers. "Well I LIKE it so it's GOOD"

Objectively, the east is a shit part of the world, and the only reason you like it so much is because you agree with their policies and social etiquette. Off you go then.

 

[gang weeder]

You've been given an objective question and you're giving subjective answers. "Well I LIKE it so it's GOOD"

Objectively, the east is a shit part of the world, and the only reason you like it so much is because you agree with their policies and social etiquette. Off you go then.

Again, this thread is asking if "the west" is better on moralistic shit like freedumb and censorship. Those are necessarily subjective questions. Your assessment that yes the west ackchyually is better is every bit as subjective as my assessment that it isn't. And yes I like it when harsh measures are taken against people who deserve them and not taken against people who don't deserve them. Just like murderers deserve the chair and innocent people don't. Not a difficult concept, but people like you have been successfully subverted to believe it somehow doesn't apply in politics.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Yes, and if you don't think so you're a naive spoiled brat who deserves to be shot.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

Again, this thread is asking if "the west" is better on moralistic shit like freedumb and censorship. Those are necessarily subjective questions. Your assessment that yes the west ackchyually is better is every bit as subjective as my assessment that it isn't. And yes I like it when harsh measures are taken against people who deserve them and not taken against people who don't deserve them. Just like murderers deserve the chair and innocent people don't. Not a difficult concept, but people like you have been successfully subverted to believe it somehow doesn't apply in politics.

The West excels past the East in many ways:
GDP
Poverty rates
General reported happiness
Availability of medical care
Human rights violations
War crimes
IQ/Intelligence
Availability of goods and food

These aren't opinions. They're observable and measurable facts. The East is poor, decrepit, corrupt, and puts production over humanity.

The entire globe is steering into a China-esque dictatorship with social credit and Thinkpol. It's a moot point, I think we can agree on that. Very soon, no matter where you go, the minimum level of totalitarianism is going to be equivalent to today's China. There is almost no point in arguing or even discussing this fact because we all see it.

With that established, you have to be considerate of the fact that power doesn't stop growing until it fails utterly and completely. The Eastern sphere has a lot of countries that are very close to a severe tipping point in one way or another. China is dealing with economic problems as well as territorial issues, both of which are at a boiling point over the last ten years. The same applies to Russia. The solution in these economies is to push the plebs harder "for the good of the country!"

My point is those motherfuckers are not slowing down whatsoever and they're well-practised in their total control. I would rather live in the west where a wider range of opinions are allowed, where we're still a few stages away from being a fully totalitarian system, and where there's still hope that things can be turned around. Keep in mind that all of these Eastern philosophies that you admire so much probably have fine print that you haven't found yet, and it's probably some shit that'll piss you off. How many things will you sacrifice to be an immigrant mooch in a third world dictatorship?

Those places have far more infrastructure and systems in place to control you. No thanks. I can still turn off my devices and ignore it all, I don't have to worry about my social credit score declining for jaywalking yet.

I think there are a lot of points you haven't considered and you're doubling down for the lulz. The West is in a measurably better position, and I think all of the Eastern countries will continue to remain more extreme and controlling than the West.

I concede that troonism is probably less common in the East, but I'd be giving up a lot of good things just to not be near open faggotry. At least we can rest assured all of these mutilated and disfigured trannies can never fight if it ever comes down to that. They only have their ideology.

 

[Absurdist Laughter]

It's all defensible relative to what. You are fixated on Bad Things that happen in other places and speak as if there is nothing bad going on here to compare it to.

A) I'd rather that than my kids being taught to troon. Again, it's also rich to pretend our own society allows much dissent against the government, but whatever. Even if we pretend that somehow we actually have the heckin' Freeze Peach, I'll trade that off in exchange for less degeneracy.
B) By comparison to teaching women that being a whore is great and the most important thing in life is to work for govt/corpo in a heckin' career? If I asked a Muslim to defend his norms about women and he just pointed to OnlyFans I might have to cede him the point.
C) As if our culture doesn't encourage massive drug use and being useless.
D) Africa I will grant you, I might still prefer the west to there. It's Africa.

See, the problem with your argument is you're mistaking a loud global minority as the representation of the entire Western philosophy. These fads are incomparable to every day life in any of those companies. I can go outside and yell, god isn't real in the West and maybe ruffle feathers. I pull that shit in the middle east, probably would become an honor kill. Focusing on the superficial micro is ignorant as it is the macro that really matters.

 

[gang weeder]

See, the problem with your argument is you're mistaking a loud global minority as the representation of the entire Western philosophy. These fads are incomparable to every day life in any of those companies. I can go outside and yell, god isn't real in the West and maybe ruffle feathers. I pull that shit in the middle east, probably would become an honor kill. Focusing on the superficial micro is ignorant as it is the macro that really matters.

Yea, that's my point, you can go outside here and yell God isn't real and no one cares. Now try going outside and yelling that men aren't women and see what happens to you. The """Western philosophy""" is "diversity and inclusion" aka kill whitey, worship niggers, and trans women are women. Whatever noble """Western philosophy""" you are imagining doesn't exist anymore. Or at least, those in power no longer follow it, and indeed actively seek its destruction.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

Yea, that's my point, you can go outside here and yell God isn't real and no one cares. Now try going outside and yelling that men aren't women and see what happens to you. The """Western philosophy""" is "diversity and inclusion" aka kill whitey, worship niggers, and trans women are women. Whatever noble """Western philosophy""" you are imagining doesn't exist anymore. Or at least, those in power no longer follow it, and indeed actively seek its destruction.

This is why I've asked you if you spend too much time on Reddit. That's the only place I can think of it being so harshly espoused that you truly cannot disagree and stick around. Maybe if you live in the middle of LA, sure, but people screaming obscene things in LA (or anywhere) isn't uncommon and you won't get honor killed for it. You really will get stoned to death in some places for blasphemy, and sometimes much less.

Can we move on to a different talking point than troons? I hate them too but this is unhealthy. You've mentioned troons in every post so far. I'm beginning to think you might be one.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Yea, that's my point, you can go outside here and yell God isn't real and no one cares. Now try going outside and yelling that men aren't women and see what happens to you. The """Western philosophy""" is "diversity and inclusion" aka kill whitey, worship niggers, and trans women are women. Whatever noble """Western philosophy""" you are imagining doesn't exist anymore. Or at least, those in power no longer follow it, and indeed actively seek its destruction.

Dude, stop. No one's gonna van you for screaming those things in public. Suck it up, go drink a glass of water, and get off the internet so you can go spend time with your kids.