This is actually pretty interesting because it's a large chunk of the "anti-fiction vs pro-fiction" discourse and why it's stupid. As it turns out, in most cases liking degenerate shit (like enjoying BDSM, abuse ships, violence, and etcetera) doesn't 100% reflect the viewer. Someone
might like fictional abusive relationships (like Harley Quinn and Joker, Reylo (which is most relevant here), or what have you), incest stories, or even more degenerate shit but not be into this kind of thing happening in the real world because (surprise surprise) fiction ain't reality. Most creators who identify as pro-fiction will state that fiction isn't 100% endorsement, promotion or normalization; or even what they want to do, lewdness wise. Many people in the profiction department would also point out that most anti-shipper/antifiction crowd will also point out that anti-shippers/anti-fiction folks tend to be highly toxic and authoritarian individuals, who want to control the flow of fan-fiction, fan works and fan engagement. Much like with the video game violence argument, psychologists have already been on the road to state that many people who like things; sexuality wise, fiction wise, ectera merely like them as what they are: fantasy. And fantasy has a tendency to mean nothing. You like NTR? Eh; doesn't mean you explicitly like cheating.
This is where Lily steps in; not only as an anti-fiction individual but one who is clearly that way to hide her own misconduct. She has nearly all the traits of a stereotypical anti including an authoritarian streak on nearly everything she writes, using her personal morality to attack creators (both fan and larger creators) for various aspects (such as how Steven Universe handles queerness, or Reylos) and a holier than thou approach. Another trait that some people are willing to note that can and may be more universally applicable to antis than to their proship/profiction counterparts is that they have an abusive/groomer streak formed by their antipedo rhetoric.
Remember, Vida was outted as a pedophile; even actively grooming while arguing that Joshscorcher was a pedoenabler. So, keep in mind, given what we know of Lily, this is very much why Lily acts in this way.
Now, let's sorta repost an attempt at doing something I did before the restart?
Oooooo boy, where do we start? Like, wow, this is really stupid; stupid enough that it kinda demands a giant post. I apologize for the raw autism coming forth.
You know, that's actually fair. I play FF14, and I thought the animations looked fine... but maybe WoW does in fact--
*cough* It seems to me the
FFXIV animations are the crunchier ones on top of having more particle effects. Granted, the two videos are tricky comparisons since AzuristSky has an annoying tendency to pause after the actions, but attacks tend to go out and be done in a second; even with multi hit attacks. Here's how this looks when actually doing a rotation/opener:
Each animation takes, at longest, 2 seconds; whilst WoW's are often 2 seconds minimum. They don't show much of an impact due to a lack of anything on a target in Wow, but you can tell there's weight and power behind a FFXIV Warrior's attacks; you can see the earth shattering, shockwaves of force; aetherial buzzsaws
digging into a target. Notice how Rampage doesn't seem to do much, but you can see the impact and power of Storm's Eye; alongside the aetherial particle effects. Oh! The mention of aether reminds me of something.
Nearly every class uses particle effects because nearly all classes are magical to some extent; due to their lifeblood having aether/magic in it. To put this in DnD/Pathfinder terms, even Extraordinary (Ex) abilities would qualify as Supernatural (Su).
However, note that I'm including video evidence rather than just saying my arguments. I am also aware that it can also open me up to criticism because that's fine, I don't mind being proven wrong about statements if I'm factually incorrect. Figuring out if an animation has "weight" and "crunch" on an objective level is very difficult, because what has weight to some lacks weight for others. Take Dark Souls, for example. Animations in the game range from slow, deliberate and ponderous to swift and rapid; but you can argue that they have weight and crunch because you can *see* the effort it takes for a character to wield them, from a two handed zweihander to a swift estoc. The slow speed is the evidence of weight; you are not a demi-god, you are a man. WoW also has an issue where you just stand idly with your weapon at your hands regardless of its nature as 1 handed or 2 handed, while every class in FFXIV takes into account the weapon's designation. Take the Warrior for example.
View attachment 2452480
Though the pose is a bit awkward, it showcases a heavy, uneasy relationship between the Warrior and their weapon. Just like a real person might struggle holding a weapon. Meanwhile, with WoW...
View attachment 2452485
This is an Arms Warrior (to my knowledge) but LOOK AT THIS. How are you wielding a great sword like a standard longsword?
To be fair to FFXIV, this has to do with 1.0 spaghetti code, where classes have to be attached to weapons. This is because the FFXIV class system attempted to be based on "Disciples of War, Magic, the Land and the Hand"; where your equipment determined your class. This carries over into 14; but... this does lead into an argument later. That being said, using specific weapons for specific classes / specs makes sense from a game design standpoint, since it allows the animation department to have more detailed and specific animations to use for said class.
also the warriors can be any race and look just fine; though I think lily forgot paladins had two handed hammers in wc3 and trolls were dual wielding all the time
Okay! Now we know what Lily means by "weight" and "crunch". Which, makes my earlier point more substantial and less bizarre. Also, bullshit.
I used a variety of games with a variety of gameplay styles and mechanics; including Final Fantasy 7, 8, 11, 13, 15 and 7 Remake. 7 and 8 are solely limited by their technical limitations (since they were in the 90s) while 13, 15 and 7 Remake have instances of slow-motion to emphasize the speed of the attacks. 11 and 14 have some of the fastest animations in the series whilst also not having any slowdown; important because they're both MMOs. There are some games that couldn't be used because attacks are generic or the limit breaks are modes. I also didn't include the 2d games, since I doubt that's the kind of games Lily was comparing to.
I'm... sorry. What?
....WHAT?
...This is how you know Lily has never played a Final Fantasy game of any style. Lacking identity and flavor isn't something you can say about any of Final Fantasy's classes from FF1 to FF14 or even in any of its spinoffs. Classes are not only defined by their abilities and mechanics in Final Fantasy, but also their aesthetics. A Black Mage isn't just the wizard who blows them up; they're the shadowy-faced, glowing eyed wizard with a giant conical hat and robes hiding their features.
This is where my previous point that I put a pin in returns; restricting weapons to their respective classes also helps to attach an identity to the class they're assigned to in FFXIV; thus allowing their class to define the aesthetics, style and flavor. For example, Warrior is a feral, bestial brutal fighter built around axes. Additionally, while multiple classes wield two handed melee weapons (Warriors, Dark Knights, Samurai, Dragoons), all of them use them differently and with different aesthetics. Warriors are brutal, have heft and have primal rage behind their blows. Dark Knights are more magically aided, but wrathful in their own way; on top of having a more defensive pose for their blade versus the more offensive pose for Warrior. Samurai are quick, methodical and utilize quick draws. Dragoon is agile, thrusts alot, and utilizes inhuman leaps to fight. This is all
one style of weapon but WoW utilizes the same kinds of skills for Retribution Paladin, Arms Warrior, Blood Death Knight, Survival Hunter and Unholy Death Knight unless you see the occasional gimmick from Hunter or spells from Paladin and Death Knight.
Not necessarily, but this is a nonsequitor that Lily never fully explains.
Considering nearly *all* of their guides says "balancing cooldowns with resources" in the first paragraph and even sentence, that is a worrying sign. Obviously, that's reductive, but besides one "gimmick", they tend to be built around maybe one or two abilities. Classes in FFXIV on the other hand tend to be built around specific gauges and "windows", which is entirely different from class to class. FFXIV doesn't simply see "wow, why play anything but rogue?" but rather "how can we condense the classes so they're all unique and different? what can Fury Warrior do that a Frost DK doesn't do that a Outlaw Rogue doesn't do that a Havoc Demonhunter doesn't do?"
Lily has technically correct facts, but the wrong conclusions. Many classes in WoW have similar specs to other specs; (alongside access to at least one DPS spec); which makes them feel more homogenized. FF14 leans on treating each class as a specialization of a role, while giving them each a unique mechanical identity and gameplay loop. While Lily is correct in that you cannot walk out of a niche in FFXIV's classes, you can always try new classes at any time; and if your class gets nerfed into the ground, you are always able to pick up a new class.
- Monk is a combo class with a flowing, variable combo system that is based on your need of effects or abilities. Going only Bootshine > True Strike > Demolish may reduce your need to move, but you're not getting the most out of your attacks. Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch will give a buff that you can't use if you only use this combo (Leaden Fists, from Dragon Kick), Twin Snakes deals less damage than True Strike and Snap Punch does more immediate damage, but no Damage over Time. Thus, a Monk is encouraged to Boot Shine > Twin Snakes > Demolish > Dragon Kick > True Strike > Snap Punch > Bootshine; adding Twin Snakes, Demolish and Dragon Kick every so often. And this is before considering Chakra, your Fists buff or your cooldowns. I don't fully understand it since I've never played Monk.
- Dragoon rotates their two combos starting from True Thrust: Vorpal > Full Thrust deals high damage and is flanking based with Fang and Claw as a finisher during Blood of the Dragon while Disembowel > Chaos Thrust is a rear based action with a similarly rear based finish with Wheeling Thrust. Blood of the Dragon is a buff you'll need to activate to enter the "meat" of the rotation; with Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw to extend it, with Jump/High Jump and Spineshatter Dive into Mirage Dive; done to grant Eyes of the Dragon to turn the Blood of the Dragon Gauge into Life of the Dragon. All throughout, you're also using Geirskogul/Nastrond, Stardiver and Dragonfire Dive as bonus damage.
- Ninja has 3 skill combo system akin to pre-Blood of the Dragon Dragoon; with the choice of Finisher either doing high damage with Aeolian Edge or increasing a haste buff (Armor Crush) but also needs to utilize Trick Attack to buff the party's damage. Additionally, they also gain Ninjitsu at level 30; requiring them to some specific abilities through the Mudras Ten, Chi, and Jin; and the combination the player utilizes. This includes the means to get Trick Attack, or various means of damage, damage of time, Huton (the haste effect), crowd control on some occasions. Additonally, abilities exist that need cooldown or Ninki; though there's also Ten Chi Jin, which gives you quick Ninjutsus on demand.
- Lastly, Samurai is a bizarre combination of Ninja and Dragoon; with three combos starting from Hakaze (Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko for a buff, Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha for haste, and Hakaze > Yukikaze for a significant increase in Kenki). These combos each grant a specific Sen; which depending on the number of Sen obtained, determines what you can use for Iaijutsu; from the DoT Higanbana, the AoE Tenka Goken or the hard hitting Midare Setsugekka, which can be combo'd into itself using Tsubame-Gaeshi. Kenki also provides oGCD attacks, and by using Iaijutsu, Tsubame-Gaeshi and Meditation, you can perform Shoha for additional damage... or just do three Iaijutsus.
Let's hope Lily's statement isn't more--
This... feels odd to me; especially that last part. Namely, because Summoner
doesn't have Dark Magic. Is she talking about the aesthetics of Bio and Miasma? We don't know. But let's get into things.
- Bard is a DoT based, proc-based, buffing ranged class, with what boils down to three "stances" based on the Songs they use; namely Mage's Ballad, Army's Paeon and Wanderer's Minuet; each with their own mechanics based on when the DoTs ticks (Repertoire). Repertoire in Mage's Ballad for example, refreshes Rain of Death and Bloodletter's cooldown, Army's Paeon boosts attack speed, and Wanderer's Minuet gives a chargable super attack, Pitch Perfect. Additionally, they can utilize an attack, Iron Jaws, to ensure their DoTs are up without needing to apply them both manually. Eventually, Soul Voice is obtained with Apex Arrow; with Repertoire boosting the gauge and charging Apex Arrow.
- Machinist has a simple combo (like a melee class) but also has a few off-global cooldowns. Two of them, Gauss Round and Ricochet deal small damage but can be rapidly fired up to three times in a row after full cooldown; gaining 1 charge per 30 seconds (or in another method), Drill; which launches a fuckoff drill and shares a timer with the AoE DoT of Bioblaster and Air Anchor, a giant screw off attack. Based on your attacks, you can then use Hypercharge and Wildfire; the former activating a mode where you can make a rapid barrage of Heat Blasts/Auto Crossbows; which deal single target or aoes. Heat Blast also refreshes Gauss Round and Ricochet. Meanwhile, by building up the battery gauge, you also have the ability to summon a automaton or turret, to deal damage alongside you.
- Dancer is weird; like a combination of Bard and Ninja; except slightly random. Standard Step and Technical Step are only one result based on how successful you are, but are buffs for yourself and a partner (Standard Step) or the party (Technical Step). Every so often, you get bonus versions of your combos, and you also get Fan Dances. Sometimes. Eventually, you build up Esprit for Saber Dance. The class is basically an aoe chainsaw with damage buffs.
- Black Mage is a combination of Mage and Balance Druid with a rotating mechanic of stances. Astral Fire is the damage state; with an increase of damage based on the number of stacks you have while Umbral Ice is the "recovery" state; replenishing MP. As you level, you also gain Enochian; which is a free damage buff that you get by maintaining Astral Fire and Umbral Ice. You can switch between the two without losing Enochian through the cooldown Transpose or by using Fire III to get Astral Fire III or Blizzard III or Freeze to get Umbral Ice III. Eventually you get Fire IV; a high powered damage spell that doesn't refresh Astral Fire (thus requiring usage of Fire every so often) and Blizzard IV, which gives 3 Umbral Hearts which discount MP used for Fire spells. Even later on, you gain Polyglot; used to spend on either Foul or Xenoglossy for massive damage.
- Summoner does not use Dark Magic. They use their pet (Garuda for aoes, Ifrit for single target and Titan for defensive support) for many of their abilities and Miasma and Bio as their DoTs (also applicable through Tri-Disaster), but the vast majority of their moveset utilizes Egi Assault or Egi Assault II to attack with their pets; giving them Ruin IV for additional damage and mobility and using their Aetherpool to gain access to Dreadwyrm Trance, then Summon Demi Bahamut and then Summon Demi Phoenix. Additionally; they can use Enkindle, Enkindle Bahamut and Enkindle Phoenix to deal high damage as off cooldown abilities. Oh yeah they have a rez.
- Red Mage is technically the most open ended class; and uses a flowchart of abilities boiling down to priorities. Every time you cast a spell with a cast time, you get Dual Cast, which is then spent to make the next spell free; so you cast Small Spell > Dual Cast Big Spell. As you do this, you build up Mana, to use on a melee combo, finish them off with a big boom then a bigger boom. They also have oGCDs, a party buff, a self buff, a viable heal, and a very abusable rez.
Hooof. That was LONG.
Fun is subjective; I'll let her have that. But to say that they aren't flavorful is to deny the fact that they all play differently.
I mean, WoW has superflous specs that pissed people off when the class identity is diluted. All 18 classes in FFXIV are very different; even in the same roles; but I was better able to deconstruct her claims about each of those roles she named; and she doesn't explain "how" they are the same.
Remember when she basically lied in her TF2 review? This feels like deja vu.
