Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

onto another topic, though, which one is you kiwis favorite zelda game and why?
Majora's Mask. I used to say Link to the Past or Ocarina, but after revisiting several of these and playing some of the newer games, I think the Majora's Mask is not only the best of all Zelda games, but one of the best games of all time.

When I first played link to the past, it was the first time I played a game that felt like a real world with people in it. I'd played some really simple RPGs, but none of them really compared to the fleshed out world that existed in LttP. Ocarina was even more mind-blowing to my middle school self. It had many named characters that were mysterious and important and a story that was interesting. The way items were acquired and used in the game was extremely fun - they were in LttP too, but items like the hookshot were infinitely more enjoyable in 3d. Clearly I hadn't had much exposure to JRPGs or I would have experienced franchises with better stories, but the western gaming market at that point was still mostly about clearing different levels in a row, and having a lot of plot, characters, and story with more depth than "save the princess" felt very new.
But on replay, Ocarina has flaws. I've come to realize a lot of the "content" in Ocarina, and really across the entire Zelda franchise, just comes from not knowing how to access stuff you're not supposed to access yet. Trying and failing to reach a cliff for an hour that's easily accessible once you get x item or ocarina song or whatever. Etc. Also, the z-targeting and camera stuff didn't age well, though it was revolutionary for the time. Same with the graphics, although those criticisms also apply somewhat to Majora's Mask.
Don't get me wrong, it's still an amazing game, and obviously still one of the best games of all time.

MM is so good that it still shines in comparison to a classic like Ocarina. I've never played another game like it. It wasn't just a unique game for its time, it's remained a unique game ever since. The tension in the game created by the 3-day time limit. The involvement with the character's lives and routines. The sadness as you save the world over and over only to see your efforts erased. The masks mechanic and how that is woven into the story. It's just a masterpiece of a game on every level.

Other Zelda games I don't really care for, and I've tried many in the franchise over the years. The first NES Zelda game I'm told was good for the era, but it didn't have the story/characters/setting that I liked about LttP. Same for Zelda 2 and some other minor games that I never played very far. Wind Waker aged a lot better than I thought it would, and I'd say it's still one of the better Zelda games. Twilight Princess was basically Ocarina 2 with better graphics and some interesting items, but it just wasn't the same. Skyward Sword was boring, I didn't play very far. BotW just felt like if Zelda was an MMO, which I liked in theory, but I got bored of the shrines and it just doesn't stand out to me compared to other games like Genshin Impact or Final Fantasy. I'm probably not going to play TotK. I want to like the Zelda franchise but it seems what I'm looking for is always done better somewhere else nowadays, so I'm stuck a permanent nostalgiafag for the N64 era.
 
I fucking cannot stand this. What do you stand to gain from dumbing shit down? The three goddesses were at least mildly more interesting than Hylia.
I think SS was when the director of nuZelda was given authority to start changing the lore. That's when both Hylia and "Totally Not Another Ganondorf" Ganondorf first appeared. Instead of Hyrule's royal family naming their daughters Zelda, she's now a God, THE God, who constantly reincarnates... Instead of men falling due to gaining the Triforce of Power with evil in their hearts, they are now reincarnated forms of Not-Ganondorf and/or his malice goo... Instead of Link simply being the protagonist, he's now cursed by malice goo man to forever reincarnate or something like that. The nuDirector basically dumped the old creation myth and introduced new deviant art OCs just to try and "explain" why there's always a Zelda in a Zelda game - something no one ever gave a shit about.
 
My favorite game is probably also Majora's Mask, but I did greatly enjoy Skyward Sword.
The nuDirector basically dumped the old creation myth and introduced new deviant art OCs just to try and "explain" why there's always a Zelda in a Zelda game - something no one ever gave a shit about.
I don't know, by this same token, does it really matter?
 
An larger population of consoomers, both young and old.
But does the removal of three deities from background lore that doesn't really impact anything have that much of a translation to sales? I can't imagine it does.
and introduced new deviant art OCs just to try and "explain" why there's always a Zelda in a Zelda game -
I get the sneaking suspicion wanting to make Zelda "his" is also why Link wears blue constantly now too.
 
I've come to realize a lot of the "content" in Ocarina, and really across the entire Zelda franchise, just comes from not knowing how to access stuff you're not supposed to access yet.
Soft disagree. The game doesn't exactly spell it out for you, but the next area you need to go to is highlighted on your map, and you've got Navi/Saria to give you hints. As for progression, if you can't access an area, it always works to try an item you acquired recently, like using bombs to access Zora's River. The more obtuse stuff you can mostly figure out by talking to NPCs, like the Zora suggesting that Lord Jabu-Jabu likes fish.

I will say that I might have blinders on because I've been playing this game for 25 years.

I get the sneaking suspicion wanting to make Zelda "his" is also why Link wears blue constantly now too.
Wasn't there something about making it blue because the green tunic would clash with the mostly green environment? I mean, I think that's bullshit, but I'm not sure it's Anouma trying to make Zelda "his" when he'd already been in charge for 17 years.
 
but I'm not sure it's Anouma trying to make Zelda "his" when he'd already been in charge for 17 years.
It hasn't really been him running the show on nuZelda. That's like saying Miyamoto made Metroid Prime just cause his name is on the project. Apparently the dude who made his debut with the Oracle games is the mover and shaker of 3D Zelda now. Which is interesting because Ages was the first Zelda game I beat and I like it a lot. And the Oracle games were VERY in tune with the golden goddesses existence, having their human forms as actual characters in the game... which is why the Hylia wank is even more retarded in hindsight... The goddesses can/have taken an active role in the story, it has too much potential to be thrown out.
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Twilight Princess was basically Ocarina 2 with better graphics
I've never understood this line honestly, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny at all. Anything you could say TP does similar to Ocarina was done in multiple other Zeldas before. Although TP is clearly related to OoT/MM timeline-wise, so there are indeed gonna be certain things in common between them that can't be avoided.
 
But does the removal of three deities from background lore that doesn't really impact anything have that much of a translation to sales? I can't imagine it does.
Not exactly, but it's probably more of an generational thing over one's appreciation for that kind of stuff, than anything else. But it's impossible to know for show until we get the next lore-heavy game and people immediately start bitching about it
Wasn't there something about making it blue because the green tunic would clash with the mostly green environment? I mean, I think that's bullshit, but I'm not sure it's Anouma trying to make Zelda "his" when he'd already been in charge for 17 years.
Well, there's this, and it was also intended to make him appear to be "part of an team" or something.
 
It's kind of sad to this day that I find Majoras Mask to have the most believable "living" world in video games.

Someone could probably show me a game that has one just as good with characters just as alive, but the fact I can't think of one offhand is what I mean.
I love so many of the little details they put into it. Like the sword instructor boasting about how he'll slice the moon in half, but if you go into the school when time is nearly out, you can find him cowering in a hidden room bemoaning about not wanting to die. Hearing Anju and her mother arguing through a crack in the wall is a nice hidden moment. Cremia planning to get Romani drunk on the last night so she'll be unconscious and numb when the world ends is horrifically tragic. So many little threads all over the place that aren't always so apparent.
 
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It's kind of sad to this day that I find Majoras Mask to have the most believable "living" world in video games.

Someone could probably show me a game that has one just as good with characters just as alive, but the fact I can't think of one offhand is what I mean.
Yakuza is probably a close example people would bring up nowadays, but I'm going to say that the reason why Majora's Mask works is, well, the 3 day cycle and the fact that the majority of what you mean is centered around the Clock Town area.

It's really easy to create a 'living' world when you actually have to stop and think 'okay, how would people actually go along their day' during a limited cycle, and within an area as small as Clock Town, you don't really have to worry about crafting hundreds of NPCs, each with their own individual routine. Many of them don't even 'exist' outside certain hours like the arrow/bomb gallery guys, giving them even less work. The time loop allows for players to see how their actions matter because they can always see what happens if they do nothing - and yet NOT be denied the opportunity to do it at all. Kafei's entire storyline even depends on you, the player, doing something bad - letting an old lady get robbed - because that's the only way Kafei can track down the guy who robs her.

Taking Yakuza into account, there certainly are lots of NPCs and substories to follow, but their presence is relatively minimal precisely because the games are not a time loop, so they must always be available to you. And they often don't actually depend on the time of day, especially since you can't really control that most of the time. It doesn't feel as truly 'living' in the same way as being able to just watch how people go around town does in Majora's Mask.
 
Tears was easily my least favorite Zelda, I just wish they would go back to the more traditional formula. Everything having to be open world seems to be the biggest curse of modern gaming
Thing is, open world could mesh with traditional OoT-style Zelda, they just fucked up the execution. Wind Waker already felt pseudo open world as it was, just do that but refine it.

I think BOTW is carried very hard by the serene atmosphere and sense of exploration.
It is. That's like 95% of its strength, and the latter part is an illusion with the depth of a puddle, so it really only has its atmosphere.

also hey sorry to doublepost but do you guys recommend A Link between worlds? whats your take on it?
It's one of the weaker 2D Zeldas, but still good.
 
I beat Skyward Sword(HD) late last night and really enjoyed it. I’d been wanting to play it ever since I heard it was the “earliest” in the Zelda timeline but I never had a Wii and the motion controls put me off initially when I originally picked it up for switch a couple years ago. I finally bit the bullet and adjusted to the controls, and even with constantly having to resync the gyro every 10 seconds had a lot of fun with it.

I want to say I’d put it in my personal top three of Zelda games, but I don't know which of OoT, MM or WW it would push to fourth. Now the only major LoZ I haven’t played is Twilight Princess, hopefully they release the switch port sooner than later so I can give that one a go too.
 
I beat Skyward Sword(HD) late last night and really enjoyed it. I’d been wanting to play it ever since I heard it was the “earliest” in the Zelda timeline but I never had a Wii and the motion controls put me off initially when I originally picked it up for switch a couple years ago.
The motion controls are the best part. Actually standing there, holding the sword and watching it move exactly, was really cool, even though the game simplified it to nine distinct sword movements.

When I first fought against Ghirahim, someone was too close behind me and I knocked soup all over her; it was a horrible mess. That kind of immersion is hard to get without the motion controls.
 
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