Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

[TVB]

And yeah Zoomies who have never touched an old Zelda game and find them boring because you can't just climb over everything need to justify feeling insecure about their lack of experiencing landmark videogames.

I personally know a lot of zoomers who actually did play old Zelda. I'd say late zoomers and gen-alpha don't even understand old Zelda.

 

[Desu Mountain]

I don't know what you guys are on about. Twilight Princess gets shit on because it was legitimately a shit game. Unless you are unhealthily infatuated with Midna I don't see why you would enjoy playing it. I can count on the fingers of one hand the parts of the game that were fun: 1) Snowboarding, 2) Cave of Ordeals, 3) Desert temple boss fight with the spinny top, 4) Zant boss fight, 5) Sumo wrestling was a bit funny. And that's it.

Compare that to Wind Waker where I instead have to count out the stuff I didn't like. 1) Forest temple. Fuck that place. 2) Everything involving Tingle. 3) Getting the sea charts got boring pretty quickly.

 

[Weltraumfürst]

I don't know what you guys are on about. Twilight Princess gets shit on because it was legitimately a shit game. Unless you are unhealthily infatuated with Midna I don't see why you would enjoy playing it.

The game has good graphics and atmosphere, great dungeons, the combat system is more in-depth than any other Zelda game, I think the story has as good way of getting you invested via the abducted kids, there's a ton of cool and memorable moments like the fight in the ghost town, chasing the Skull Kid through the forest, the duel with the Bokoblin leader on top of the bridge, blowing up the bomb warehouse in Kakariko, and the entirety of the desert area and the Arbiter's Grounds. Also, the whole thing feels truly epic.

Again, it's not even my favorite 3D Zelda game. I haven't beaten it, neither have I touched it in years, and I can still list off that stuff off the top of my head. And, for the record, Midna is probably my least favorite companion. In fact, I kind of hate her.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I just don't get this recent thing where everyone suddenly hates all the 3d Zelda games from before BOTW. They act like everything before BOTW was terrible garbage, especially with Twilight Princess, which was the highest selling Zelda game until BOTW. Is it because of all the people who have only played BOTW/TOTK coming in and acting like the series was terrible until it became open world or what?

This has been Zelda since every new release. Majora's Mask bad, till it wasn't. Wind Waker bad, till it wasn't. Now we have Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword enduring much the same. Did everyone on her just forget about the Zelda cycle? Unless you are Ocarina of time, you are apparently terrible till some millennial digs you up for YT clout.

As for why BOTW specifically, it was due to the original formula getting stale/Nintendo clearly lacking new ideas. Skyward Sword did a lot of damage to the IP, but I think it was just 10+ years of fatigue mixed in with Nostalgia Xers decrying that Zelda needs to go back to its roots by recreating the first and being less linear dungeon focused and being an open world full of mysteries and secrets like BOTW was. Reminder, Skyward Sword came out at the height of NES nostalgia with people like AVGN, so people like, I believe Erin Hansen, leading everyone to ditch the current formula was likely a given.

Twilight Princess gets brutally shit on because for some reason everyone has decreed that it was the Zelda Nintendo was forced to make by rabid fans who hated the Wind Waker art style and wanted a more mature Zelda. So poor widdle Numa had to stop ripping off Ghibli for one whole game and make something slightly different from his usual magitech goddess cell shaded wank fest. How tragic

The main criticism I hear is how it is a retread of Ocarina of Time and that the visuals aged poorly. It also has an unnecessarily long opening of menial tasks.

Also getting real tired of over saturated bright colours, I get the piss filter era was loathed, but at least games during that era had visual styles, everything now is just uber saturated and blown out with bright flashing lights, all for the Zoomer tiktok generation. There is this belief going around that if a game doesn't have completely contrasting visually unique locations then it has bad art direction, I think I saw this around the NewBlood circle when I used to lurk on Twitter. Their example of this was comparing Metroid Prime 1's colour palette to the colours used in MP2. MP1 has completely separate and contrasting colours for each area, while MP2 has a toned down earthly tone that has less contrast, and the separate areas blend smoother despite still having a unique appearance. They used this to say MP1 had better art because it had more unique areas or something, which I think is a retarded take when it comes to world building and grounding the visuals.

Welcome to the 7th gens' criticisms received era. After years of "hardcore gamers" shitting on any game with a color pallet besides brown, I think this was inevitable. Realism was the trend of the 7th and 8th gens, but now there isn't much farther you can go with it and still be impressive. It is the same rut CGI animation faced that led to Spider-verse becoming the dominate art style. Adding to this is how poorly many of the 6th and 7th gen titles aged as only a few "dark realism" titles still look all that good today, would probably say Batman and Alice aged the best given the somewhat off art styles, and those two still suffer from poor character models at times.

I suppose if these are the games they grew up with then its no surprise they are glorified drug addicts that cant focus on anything and lose interest the second a game tries to tell a story or do something that isn't just a gameplay loop. That's all BOTW/TOTK are essentially, a gameplay loop of explore -> puzzle -> upgrade (spirit orb or korok seed), keeping the dopamine flowing for doing menial tasks. I would not be surprised in the least if Zoomers start to have serious drug issues in the future.

Part of this is just modern gaming being shit in general. When most grow up with gaming being COD or the obvious movies Sony produces, having an actual game with no loot box shit is already a massive step above the rest.

 

[Epoch]

This has been Zelda since every new release. Majora's Mask bad, till it wasn't. Wind Waker bad, till it wasn't. Now we have Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword enduring much the same. Did everyone on her just forget about the Zelda cycle? Unless you are Ocarina of time, you are apparently terrible till some millennial digs you up for YT clout.

I highlighted TP since that seems to be getting the most shit, but I've seen people decry that ALL 3d Zelda games other than OOT were always awful and that BOTW is the true progression of the series or something.

that the visuals aged poorly

I personally think TP's visuals have aged decently, but not as well as Wind Waker obviously. Outside of low res textures, the actual character models and art style hold up. I know people shit on the creepy looking characters but I like how surreal everything is, with the tinted bloom and the dreamlike Twilight, its like a bad dream. A lot like Majora's Mask but with a moodier more melancholic spin. Could just be my nostalgia talking who knows.

 

[Mob Boss Barbie]

I haven't played Zelda since TP and while I'm enjoying TOTK (maybe moreso because I didn't play BOTW), the dungeons suck. Opened a door in the first one expecting that to be the entrance to the temple but no, that was the boss room. Fuck me for wanting a longer dungeon and more of a challenge, I guess.

l don't think Zoomers even like games, considering how they all just play gameplay loop dopamine simulators.

The absolute blow-up of let's plays and twitch streamers supports this thought. Why play a game that makes you think or engage with the story if you can just watch some fag on YouTube do it with the added parasocial commentary?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I don’t know. Being a fan of BOTW, and still seeing lots of ways they can expand on its formula, I don’t see this as being a disaster for the franchise. Especially if they alternate between games like it and more traditional entries, even if they are remasters of older titles.

I really seem to be alone here in terms of enjoying both BOTW and TOTK. Especially in regards to them belonging alongside the others in terms of being true Zelda games.

But TotK shows they are basically resting on their laurels making glorified DLC (I know you don't agree but this is straight out of Nintendo's mouth). The whole idea of an open world Zelda is perfectly fine, it's just the lack of traditional dungeons that really holds it back for a lot of people.

I do think we'll at least get 2D remakes in the meantime between these BotW DLCs sequels, but I don't see them alternating the 3D ones anytime soon based on their current tone and how well the series is doing in its current direction. Everyone seems to expect the Oracle remakes next, which would be nice, but if Capcom's involvement somehow complicates things then I think we'll probably get a Zelda 2 remake instead.

Some of the shit TP gets is deserved, though. It does feel like a bit of a retread of OoT, the overworld still isn't great and there is a huge amount of handholding. On a personal level, I never liked Wolf Link, and the Twilight Realm stuff never did it for me, either. I mean, it's still a good game with some pretty spectacular moments, but it's also the only 3D Zelda game I haven't finished.

I get the feeling that lately, though, public opinion on TP seems to turn around, thankfully. It's not the greatest entry, but it doesn't deserve half the disdain.

I feel the same way. I like it but it's an inferior OoT, and after WW anything was going to look inferior anyway. I never finished it either but if it they ever port the Wii U remaster to Switch I'll finish it.

 

[Too Many Catgirls]

Allow me to summarize the last two pages hundred and twenty pages.

 

[NerdShamer]

TP was an little bit more than mediocre, tbh. Yes, the combat was better than most of the 3D games. Yes, the set pieces were great. Yes, the dungeons were great.

But what mostly killed it was how long it took to get through the prologue; but then again, even that wasn't exactly terrible, either. It's more of an victim of being released after WW if you're only talking about how people hated the artstyle

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The obvious thing to do is make Zelda Sports.

 

[Pissmaster]

I still feel kinda scammed for buying TP Wii on launch, only for its controls to be an unplayable mess, and the Gamecube controller support was completely removed. I don't think I got much farther than like two hours into the game. Last thing I remember was being trapped in some jail cell with Minda and I think Link was a wolf by then.

and then the game just escaped my mind and I quit caring about it forever and did not buy the Wii U remaster like a good consoomer

The obvious thing to do is make Zelda Sports.

I guess between Link's Crossbow Training, Ocarina's fishing minigame, and Mario Kart, Link is already an athlete

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I personally think TP's visuals have aged decently, but not as well as Wind Waker obviously. Outside of low res textures, the actual character models and art style hold up. I know people shit on the creepy looking characters but I like how surreal everything is, with the tinted bloom and the dreamlike Twilight, its like a bad dream. A lot like Majora's Mask but with a moodier more melancholic spin. Could just be my nostalgia talking who knows.

To be fair, this criticism gets thrown at a lot of games of the era. I personally like the look of Brawl but everyone seems to clown on it as being disgusting when, arguably, that was where a lot of Smash characters looked their best. TP has a unique look with more of a horror aesthetic, but it doesn't hold up as well as Wind Waker.

 

[Weltraumfürst]

To be fair, this criticism gets thrown at a lot of games of the era. I personally like the look of Brawl but everyone seems to clown on it as being disgusting when, arguably, that was where a lot of Smash characters looked their best. TP has a unique look with more of a horror aesthetic, but it doesn't hold up as well as Wind Waker.

Yeah, shooting for realism won't age as well as a good, timeless artstyle and that's what they did. Minus some most of the character designs. That's why Classic WoW still looks better than Lord of the Rings Online. Still, after watching a bit of gameplay footage, I think it has aged reasonably well.
I think in that regard, we actually got the best of both worlds with Skyward Sword. I love the cel-shaded Wind Waker artstyle, but a lot of the designs were a bit too cartoonish for my tastes, even back when it came out. I wouldn't have minded if other 3D Zelda games would follow that route. I mean, I guess BOTW kinda does, but it looks kinda washed out and has that weird Wii U-lighting.

 

[Epoch]

I personally like the look of Brawl but everyone seems to clown on it as being disgusting when, arguably, that was where a lot of Smash characters looked their best.

I like the look of Brawl because they hired this man a decade before it became a meme, also the this will be graphics in 2013 meme is still funny to me for some reason.

 

[TheDarknessGrows]

I guess between Link's Crossbow Training, Ocarina's fishing minigame, and Mario Kart, Link is already an athlete

I loved Crossbow Training.

Every console should natively support light gun games with no extra peripherals and come packed with House of the Dead 1 and 2. By law.

 

[Desu Mountain]

The game has good graphics and atmosphere, great dungeons, the combat system is more in-depth than any other Zelda game, I think the story has as good way of getting you invested via the abducted kids, there's a ton of cool and memorable moments like the fight in the ghost town, chasing the Skull Kid through the forest, the duel with the Bokoblin leader on top of the bridge, blowing up the bomb warehouse in Kakariko, and the entirety of the desert area and the Arbiter's Grounds. Also, the whole thing feels truly epic.

Again, it's not even my favorite 3D Zelda game. I haven't beaten it, neither have I touched it in years, and I can still list off that stuff off the top of my head. And, for the record, Midna is probably my least favorite companion. In fact, I kind of hate her.

The character models were shit even for its time (FIVE FUCKING YEARS after FFX), the dungeons were designed to waste your time as much as possible by making you backtrack as much as it could while adding stupid waiting games in between like waiting for fucking monkeys to slowly, slowly, slowly line up on ropes to swing you over, the combat system wasn't deep, it just added a bunch of useless techniques that you basically never needed to use except for that one technique that you needed for darknuts which existed in Wind Waker and the only thing that helped speed fights up was the finishing blow which you couldn't fucking use in wolf form, the story dragged on in the beginning only to practically disappear afterwards, I have no fucking clue what fight in the ghost town you're talking about so clearly it's not that memorable, the Skull Kid stuff was a lame disappointment especially after Majora's Mask, the bridge duel was an exercise in frustration, the bomb warehouse was just confusing since you couldn't kill the bugs even though they were right in front of you, and the desert part is the only part I kinda agree with.

Seriously, fuck that game.

 

[Epoch]

Whats the deal with you and the monkeys? You've used that one example in every post you make sneeding about how you hate TP as if its some big gotcha. You are acting like the game is some personal offense to you or something

 

[Desu Mountain]

Whats the deal with you and the monkeys? You've used that one example in every post you make sneeding about how you hate TP as if its some big gotcha.

Because that fucking temple is so shit I've burnt myself out on it every time I've tried giving that pile of garbage of a game another chance.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

One thing that sticks out about TP that I remember is several NPCs were pretty gross looking, then there were the nightmare fuel human-headed chicken things. Even the "regular" looking characters were kinda weird, even by Zelda standards.

 

[Desu Mountain]

One thing that sticks out about TP that I remember is several NPCs were pretty gross looking, then there were the nightmare fuel human-headed chicken things. Even the "regular" looking characters were kinda weird, even by Zelda standards.

As I recall when the character models were first ripped on Facepunch Studios the users there were talking about how all the work and polygons had gone in to just a few of the character like Link and Ilia, and all the rest were just lazy half-assed messes usually left for nameless background characters in other games. Don't know if they fixed that in the HD re-release. I can't really recall anyone talking about using them in Gmod back in the day, so they clearly were not very popular.