Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

[whatever I feel like]

The remaster designation has more to do with control changes and resolution. Nintendo ain't gonna fuck with textures or graphics from GameCube or Wii

They totally redid the graphics on WW HD and I think TP HD got some sort of upgrade too. Granted, WW's "upgrade" actually made the game look worse, but at least it made sailing faster.

 

[Dom Cruise]

I also last played it in 2017 right after I finished up with BOTW. Are you me?

Actually I replayed it in preparation for playing BOTW later in 2018.

 

[The-Mad-Asshatter]

I last played it in 2017 and I think it still holds up too but for whatever reason it's controversial now to really heap praise on Ocarina probably because people went so hard into that for years that it became kind of obnoxious I guess.

That's why it became controversial. I have somewhat of a hateboner for that game not because of the game itself, but because of the Ocarinafags and Nintendo's over-catering to them. Centering a whole timeline around it, overt attempts to recapture it's lightning-in-a-bottle by having too many games emulate it's tropes, giving it three direct sequels that used or referenced and praised the Hero of Time. Even though doing this ended up doing nothing for the dying fanbase.

Then after BOTW came out Ocarinafags started bitching that it wasn't 'real' Zelda and that it didn't 'feel' like a 'traditional' Zelda (what they had with Ocarina and it's sequels.) They cope hard when they hear BOTW outsold OoT on almost just one platform (the Switch) in just a few years compared to the 20+ years and several platforms OoT has been out. "Ocarina was innovative and 'made' Zelda famous and what it is today!" is what they like to say, ignoring the fact that the earliest founding game(s) and the cartoons and comics and other things that were around back in the day, were just as innovative and special to the earlier generation that came before them.

And when someone says they don't care for OoT or even says they think another Zelda game is better, then you see even more coping and fagging as the Ocarinafags heap yet more effusive praise onto OoT, how they were wee wide-eyed little tykes holding a big controller that barely fit their hands, and how it was magical and mystical and made their whole childhood and other gushy gooing. Then they claim the person wasn't the 'right' age to 'appreciate' the 'best Zelda game of all time.'

There is also the fact that these people still want another game starring OoT Link (despite him starring in MM and guest starring in TP) and they want Nintendo to do yet another remaster of OoT, this time for the Switch, despite the fact that it already had one for the recent 3DS and there are some other Zelda games that yet to even be remastered and re-released (like The Minish Cap as a quick example.) Even though Nintendo itself had stated in an interview when BOTW came out that the series needed to move on from OoT, these people don't seem to grasp that. They don't seem to realize that Zelda has to keep moving on or the fandom will wither and die. They want Nintendo to keep catering to their childhood by keeping Zelda frozen in time, in the way they loved it, rather then accepting the fact that because Nintendo used it and it's tropes so much, that after it was 'innovative,' 20 years of over-representation of one game and it's hero also made it feel cliche and stale, and that is one thing that can make people get sick of 'Zelda' and leave.

So as you can see, there is a reason these people are considered overweening and obnoxious.

 

[whatever I feel like]

That's why it became controversial. I have somewhat of a hateboner for that game not because of the game itself, but because of the Ocarinafags and Nintendo's over-catering to them. Centering a whole timeline around it, overt attempts to recapture it's lightning-in-a-bottle by having too many games emulate it's tropes, giving it three direct sequels that used or referenced and praised the Hero of Time. Even though doing this ended up slowly killing the fanbase.

Then after BOTW came out Ocarinafags started bitching that it wasn't 'real' Zelda and that it didn't 'feel' like a 'traditional' Zelda (what they had with Ocarina and it's sequels.) They cope hard when they hear BOTW outsold OoT on almost just one platform (the Switch) in just a few years compared to the 20+ years and several platforms OoT has been out. "Ocarina was innovative and 'made' Zelda famous and what it is today!" is what they like to say, ignoring the fact that the earliest founding game(s) and the cartoons and comics and other things that were around back in the day, were just as innovative and special to the earlier generation that came before them.

And when someone says they don't care for OoT or even says they think another Zelda game is better, then you see even more coping and fagging as the Ocarinafags heap yet more effusive praise onto OoT, how they were wee wide-eyed little tykes holding a big controller that barely fit their hands, and how it was magical and mystical and made their whole childhood and other gushy gooing. Then they claim the person wasn't the 'right' age to 'appreciate' the 'best Zelda game of all time.'

There is also the fact that these people still want another game starring OoT Link (despite him starring in MM and guest starring in TP) and they want Nintendo to do yet another remaster of OoT, this time for the Switch, despite the fact that it already had one for the recent 3DS and there are some other Zelda games that yet to even be remastered and re-released (like The Minish Cap as a quick example.) Even though Nintendo itself had stated in an interview when BOTW came out that the series needed to move on from OoT, these people don't seem to grasp that. They don't seem to realize that Zelda has to keep moving on or the fandom will wither and die. They want Nintendo to keep catering to their childhood by keeping Zelda frozen in time, in the way they loved it, rather then accepting the fact that because Nintendo used it and it's tropes so much, that after it was 'innovative,' 20 years of over-representation of one game and it's hero also made it feel cliche and stale, and that is one thing that can make people get sick of 'Zelda' and leave.

So as you can see, there is a reason these people are considered overweening and obnoxious.

OoT ended up being a bit of an evolutionary dead end, with each succeeding sequel being less critically well received, culminating in Skyward Sword finally being released to widespread public dislike outside of the dicksuckers at IGN. Meanwhile LttP is STILL the basis for the 2D games twenty-five years later and has practically an entire indie genre dedicated to recreating it. But you didn't hear that from me.

 

[The-Mad-Asshatter]

OoT ended up being a bit of an evolutionary dead end, with each succeeding sequel being less critically well received, culminating in Skyward Sword finally being released to widespread public dislike outside of the dicksuckers at IGN. Meanwhile LttP is STILL the basis for the 2D games twenty-five years later and has practically an entire indie genre dedicated to recreating it. But you didn't hear that from me.

Exactly. And I cringe whenever I hear them asking for more of it, because that really ended up working out so well.

What I couldn't help notice was that one of the complaints given about Skyward Sword was that it made Ganondorf 'less sympathetic' because it had him as a product of Demise's curse and an incarnation of his hatred, and I reckon it went against their impression of him from that 'I coveted that wind I suppose' speech in WW as it made him out to be, ya know, evil.

As if titles like 'Demon King' and the other lovely titles given to him, his ability to exude malice and the enslaving of his own followers (despite claiming to 'care' for them) didn't offer a clue.

Even though such people like him are known to put on a fake sad face and tone even as they will unabashedly justify all of their evil actions without a hint of remorse or desire to repent or atone for their actions. He never says he was wrong or that his actions were wrong or evil. On the contrary, he only wants to 'fix' things and remove the water not because he wants to set things right and return people to Hyrule, but because he blames the gods for flooding everything even as it was an attempt to stop his rampage of terror with a deluge and the ocean it created. It's not allowing him to take over Hyrule, so that's 'bad.' It doesn't even matter if he doesn't choose to kill the kids, it's no proof of his 'good side' when his rule, the monsters and the curses he likes to bring on the land tend to either drive out people or kill them, and I don't think he's ignorant of that.

Edited for clarity.

 

[NerdShamer]

Exactly. And I cringe whenever I hear them asking for more of it, because that really ended up working out so well.

What I couldn't help notice was that one of the complaints given about Skyward Sword was that it made Ganondorf 'less sympathetic' because it made him out to be a product of Demise's curse and an incarnation of his hatred. I reckon it went against their impression of him from that 'I coveted that wind I suppose' speech in WW and made him out to be, ya know, evil.

As if titles like 'Demon King' and the other lovely titles given to him, his ability to exude malice and the enslaving of his own followers (despite claiming to 'care' for them) didn't offer a clue.

Even though such people like him are known to put on a fake sad face and tone even as they will unabashedly justify all of their evil actions without a hint of remorse or desire to repent or atone for their actions. He never says he was wrong, he only wants to 'fix' things and remove the water because it currently is not allowing him to take over Hyrule. It doesn't even matter if he doesn't choose to kill the kids, it's no proof of his 'good side' when his rule, the monsters and the curses he likes to bring on the land tend to either drive out people or kill them, and I don't think he's ignorant of that.

Honestly, SS was Ghiraham's show.

 

[The-Mad-Asshatter]

Honestly, SS was Ghiraham's show.

True, but he still got replaced by Demise at the end. Even though he was freaking awesome.

 

[HeyYou]

1. Breath of the Wild
2. Link's Awakening
3. A Link to the Past
4. The Legend of Zelda
5. Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
6. Oracle of Seasons
7. Oracle of Ages
8. Ocarina of Time
9. Minish Cap
10. A Link Between Worlds

And then the rest I've never played more than like two hours into.

Link's Awakening's remake was pretty good, didn't list it though because it's just similar enough to the Game Boy one that it can just share its placement.

Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess are all three games that I tried at one point but just didn't stick with for one reason or another. Wind Waker's one where if I try to think about my reasoning, it sounds really stupid, because I kept failing some stealth section at the very beginning of the game and just never touched it again, I must have been really upset over something that day, but that's whats stuck in my head this whole time, and I have zero desire to go give it another chance.

I like the concept of a bright and cheery Zelda game, a lot of people seem to love it, and it looks like a game I should like, but I guess it's just not meant to be

Alright, I can accept calling Ocarina of Time overrated and even boring by modern standards, because it is, but putting Zelda II over it? The game where the first dungeon is somehow more difficult than the ones after it? That's where I draw the line.

Anyways, I don't care about timeline faggotry. BotW 2 just better have actual dungeons. Just because OoT is oversatured doesn't mean Zelda needs to be like every other Ubisoft game ever released.

 

[Becomemysoulreaver]

I liked breath of the wild, but I do agree with a lot of people that it need to have more traditional zelda elements, I enjoyed the shrines enough but the visuals are all the same, even with the beasts dungeons.
I always thought that they could make like A link between worlds and just make you only be able to have one key item at a time, that way they can balance dungeons around the idea of doing them in any order

 

[NerdShamer]

True, but he still got replaced by Demise at the end. Even though he was freaking awesome.

Would have worked if he became Demise.

 

[Dom Cruise]

I liked breath of the wild, but I do agree with a lot of people that it need to have more traditional zelda elements, I enjoyed the shrines enough but the visuals are all the same, even with the beasts dungeons.
I always thought that they could make like A link between worlds and just make you only be able to have one key item at a time, that way they can balance dungeons around the idea of doing them in any order

The shrines all looked the same, which was lame, but isn't that kind of par for the course for underground areas in 3D Zeldas? I seem to remember Ocarina of Time having cut and paste caves you'd find in the holes and Wind Waker had some reused underground areas as well.

At least there was plenty of cool and unique things you could find in the overworld in BOTW, although I feel like one thing BOTW was lacking was something kind of like the ghost ship in WW, the closest equivalent being the dragons, the weird magical horse thing and the monster shop, all of which was cool, but not really spooky enough, in fact BOTW was lacking in spooky in general considering there were no Poes or Redeads or something like the shadow dungeon in Ocarina.

BOTW 2 definitely need to bring back the creepy.

 

[DMX DA GOAT]

because of the Ocarinafags and Nintendo's over-catering to them.

Funny that's how I feel about Wind Waker fags

 

[NerdShamer]

The shrines all looked the same, which was lame

There's some regional variations in terms of the environmental hazards, but otherwise you're right.

 

[Mooger Meng]

Exactly. And I cringe whenever I hear them asking for more of it, because that really ended up working out so well.

What I couldn't help notice was that one of the complaints given about Skyward Sword was that it made Ganondorf 'less sympathetic' because it had him as a product of Demise's curse and an incarnation of his hatred, and I reckon it went against their impression of him from that 'I coveted that wind I suppose' speech in WW as it made him out to be, ya know, evil.

As if titles like 'Demon King' and the other lovely titles given to him, his ability to exude malice and the enslaving of his own followers (despite claiming to 'care' for them) didn't offer a clue.

Even though such people like him are known to put on a fake sad face and tone even as they will unabashedly justify all of their evil actions without a hint of remorse or desire to repent or atone for their actions. He never says he was wrong or that his actions were wrong or evil. On the contrary, he only wants to 'fix' things and remove the water not because he wants to set things right and return people to Hyrule, but because he blames the gods for flooding everything even as it was an attempt to stop his rampage of terror with a deluge and the ocean it created. It's not allowing him to take over Hyrule, so that's 'bad.' It doesn't even matter if he doesn't choose to kill the kids, it's no proof of his 'good side' when his rule, the monsters and the curses he likes to bring on the land tend to either drive out people or kill them, and I don't think he's ignorant of that.

Edited for clarity.

That likely stems from the tired "the villain isn't evil just misunderstood uwu" mindset more than anything. People are wont to forget that even sympathetic villains are supposed to be villains, and even if they have some justification for their actions, the actions are still heinous.

Much as I'd like to see a Zelda game with Good Guy Ganondorf (because I'm a bit of a sucker for the idea), just to shake things up, it would be difficult at best to justify. Just because the concept of Power is easier to corrupt than Trough or Courage doesn't mean it must always be malign.

 

[Pissmaster]

Alright, I can accept calling Ocarina of Time overrated and even boring by modern standards, because it is, but putting Zelda II over it? The game where the first dungeon is somehow more difficult than the ones after it? That's where I draw the line.

Anyways, I don't care about timeline faggotry. BotW 2 just better have actual dungeons. Just because OoT is oversatured doesn't mean Zelda needs to be like every other Ubisoft game ever released.

Not gonna lie, Zelda 2 is a very hard one to defend. But I swear to you, I promise you, there's a very good game in there behind some of the straight-up autistic bullshit that game has, and it desperately needs a revamp.

• Get rid of the enemies that dock your XP by 10 every time they hit you, especially considering they're in the very first dungeon when you're only netting 2-5 XP per enemy otherwise
• The Life spell is hidden behind a quest where someone tells you they lost their mirror, and their mirror is under a table in that town, where you crouch and attack a certain table to pick it up. There's no indication it's there, that it would be in a town at all, and every other item you've found has been at the end of a cave or in a dungeon. Make it visible and/or give a clear hint that it's underneath a table somewhere, for fuck's sake.
• Have enemies drop hearts every now and then, since the only ways to heal are with the aformentioned Life spell, seeing a healer in town, or by leveling up.
• Don't reset your XP when you save and quit, or get a game over. Having to hike all the way back to wherever you were is punishment enough. I know we're talking about a game from 1986, but they couldn't dedicate two bytes to the XP counter? Really?
• It's not exactly clear where to use, um, the magic spell that is literally named "SPELL", in order to access the final dungeon
• Final boss is lol

It's weird. Zelda 2 was a game I didn't enjoy until something bit me and I had an urge to play through the game a couple of years ago. I used save states, but I really discovered that there's something really enjoyable there after having the game for practically my entire life and never even getting past Death Mountain. Combat is very difficult and viscerally satisfying in a sort of Punch-Out way, and even with save states and not giving a fuck about savescumming, it's still really satisfying to get through a dungeon.

The game is an awful nightmare if you've only ever played it on a cartridge, or if you refuse to savescum. You have to git gud like a motherfucker. But it's a pretty good game, especially for its time. It's just a very awkward fit into the Zelda franchise and just doesn't fit with the rest of the series at all, but it was early enough to where the series didn't really have an identity yet. It's practically closer to being a Metroid game than a Zelda game, come to think of it.

 

[CrippleThreat]

Four Swords later got re-released as DSiWare on the DSi and then again later on the 3DS (both times free) for the series 25th Anniversary, altered a bit so that you didn't need another Game Boy Advance linked to play it like in the version you had.

Anyone else played that version? I got the most out of it content-wise as a single player (unlocked Master Sword and Hurricane Spin). Besides needing to get really good or use multiplayer to fully 100 percent the main dungeons (those rupee requirements for keys suck), it was good for the while I played it.

The Realm of Memories fanservice levels were a great nod.

Final boss is lol.

Only time Dark Link will be the final boss afaik, and that fight is hilarious. Just squat in a corner and slap him.

 

[X Pac Heat]

Zelda II is really fun if you have save states IMO. I mean I think it's fun regardless but simply saving before dungeons (or even enemy encounters if you're really having trouble) really eases up on the bullshit of the game.

Although...maybe this is a case of me knowing too much like with Super Metroid. I guess the game is a bit too cryptic at times.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Not gonna lie, Zelda 2 is a very hard one to defend. But I swear to you, I promise you, there's a very good game in there behind some of the straight-up autistic bullshit that game has, and it desperately needs a revamp.

• Get rid of the enemies that dock your XP by 10 every time they hit you, especially considering they're in the very first dungeon when you're only netting 2-5 XP per enemy otherwise
• The Life spell is hidden behind a quest where someone tells you they lost their mirror, and their mirror is under a table in that town, where you crouch and attack a certain table to pick it up. There's no indication it's there, that it would be in a town at all, and every other item you've found has been at the end of a cave or in a dungeon. Make it visible and/or give a clear hint that it's underneath a table somewhere, for fuck's sake.
• Have enemies drop hearts every now and then, since the only ways to heal are with the aformentioned Life spell, seeing a healer in town, or by leveling up.
• Don't reset your XP when you save and quit, or get a game over. Having to hike all the way back to wherever you were is punishment enough. I know we're talking about a game from 1986, but they couldn't dedicate two bytes to the XP counter? Really?
• It's not exactly clear where to use, um, the magic spell that is literally named "SPELL", in order to access the final dungeon
• Final boss is lol

It's weird. Zelda 2 was a game I didn't enjoy until something bit me and I had an urge to play through the game a couple of years ago. I used save states, but I really discovered that there's something really enjoyable there after having the game for practically my entire life and never even getting past Death Mountain. Combat is very difficult and viscerally satisfying in a sort of Punch-Out way, and even with save states and not giving a fuck about savescumming, it's still really satisfying to get through a dungeon.

The game is an awful nightmare if you've only ever played it on a cartridge, or if you refuse to savescum. You have to git gud like a motherfucker. But it's a pretty good game, especially for its time. It's just a very awkward fit into the Zelda franchise and just doesn't fit with the rest of the series at all, but it was early enough to where the series didn't really have an identity yet. It's practically closer to being a Metroid game than a Zelda game, come to think of it.

Zelda 2's design decisions make sense when you realize they were copying the first three ultima games.

Hiroshi Yamauchi tenure as Nintendo's CEO is certainly something to read into. Everything that was good about Nintendo came from him. Then Iwata fagged it up.

 

[Dom Cruise]

That's why it became controversial. I have somewhat of a hateboner for that game not because of the game itself, but because of the Ocarinafags and Nintendo's over-catering to them. Centering a whole timeline around it, overt attempts to recapture it's lightning-in-a-bottle by having too many games emulate it's tropes, giving it three direct sequels that used or referenced and praised the Hero of Time. Even though doing this ended up doing nothing for the dying fanbase.

Then after BOTW came out Ocarinafags started bitching that it wasn't 'real' Zelda and that it didn't 'feel' like a 'traditional' Zelda (what they had with Ocarina and it's sequels.) They cope hard when they hear BOTW outsold OoT on almost just one platform (the Switch) in just a few years compared to the 20+ years and several platforms OoT has been out. "Ocarina was innovative and 'made' Zelda famous and what it is today!" is what they like to say, ignoring the fact that the earliest founding game(s) and the cartoons and comics and other things that were around back in the day, were just as innovative and special to the earlier generation that came before them.

And when someone says they don't care for OoT or even says they think another Zelda game is better, then you see even more coping and fagging as the Ocarinafags heap yet more effusive praise onto OoT, how they were wee wide-eyed little tykes holding a big controller that barely fit their hands, and how it was magical and mystical and made their whole childhood and other gushy gooing. Then they claim the person wasn't the 'right' age to 'appreciate' the 'best Zelda game of all time.'

There is also the fact that these people still want another game starring OoT Link (despite him starring in MM and guest starring in TP) and they want Nintendo to do yet another remaster of OoT, this time for the Switch, despite the fact that it already had one for the recent 3DS and there are some other Zelda games that yet to even be remastered and re-released (like The Minish Cap as a quick example.) Even though Nintendo itself had stated in an interview when BOTW came out that the series needed to move on from OoT, these people don't seem to grasp that. They don't seem to realize that Zelda has to keep moving on or the fandom will wither and die. They want Nintendo to keep catering to their childhood by keeping Zelda frozen in time, in the way they loved it, rather then accepting the fact that because Nintendo used it and it's tropes so much, that after it was 'innovative,' 20 years of over-representation of one game and it's hero also made it feel cliche and stale, and that is one thing that can make people get sick of 'Zelda' and leave.

So as you can see, there is a reason these people are considered overweening and obnoxious.

But doesn't the fact that the game has that kind of following prove it is somehting special though?

Beyond the cultural baggage I think it's too quickly forgotten that it is a great game at the end of the day, especially when taken into context of 1998, it was doing something close to 3D open world long before that was a standard.

But what makes BOTW so good though is the fact that it was willing to go in a very different direction than just keep riding Ocarina's dick.

Not gonna lie, Zelda 2 is a very hard one to defend. But I swear to you, I promise you, there's a very good game in there behind some of the straight-up autistic bullshit that game has, and it desperately needs a revamp.

• Get rid of the enemies that dock your XP by 10 every time they hit you, especially considering they're in the very first dungeon when you're only netting 2-5 XP per enemy otherwise
• The Life spell is hidden behind a quest where someone tells you they lost their mirror, and their mirror is under a table in that town, where you crouch and attack a certain table to pick it up. There's no indication it's there, that it would be in a town at all, and every other item you've found has been at the end of a cave or in a dungeon. Make it visible and/or give a clear hint that it's underneath a table somewhere, for fuck's sake.
• Have enemies drop hearts every now and then, since the only ways to heal are with the aformentioned Life spell, seeing a healer in town, or by leveling up.
• Don't reset your XP when you save and quit, or get a game over. Having to hike all the way back to wherever you were is punishment enough. I know we're talking about a game from 1986, but they couldn't dedicate two bytes to the XP counter? Really?
• It's not exactly clear where to use, um, the magic spell that is literally named "SPELL", in order to access the final dungeon
• Final boss is lol

It's weird. Zelda 2 was a game I didn't enjoy until something bit me and I had an urge to play through the game a couple of years ago. I used save states, but I really discovered that there's something really enjoyable there after having the game for practically my entire life and never even getting past Death Mountain. Combat is very difficult and viscerally satisfying in a sort of Punch-Out way, and even with save states and not giving a fuck about savescumming, it's still really satisfying to get through a dungeon.

The game is an awful nightmare if you've only ever played it on a cartridge, or if you refuse to savescum. You have to git gud like a motherfucker. But it's a pretty good game, especially for its time. It's just a very awkward fit into the Zelda franchise and just doesn't fit with the rest of the series at all, but it was early enough to where the series didn't really have an identity yet. It's practically closer to being a Metroid game than a Zelda game, come to think of it.

Zelda 2 is the only mainline entry I haven't played at all.

It sounds much like Castlevania II where they got a little too weird and out there.

Zelda II is really fun if you have save states IMO. I mean I think it's fun regardless but simply saving before dungeons (or even enemy encounters if you're really having trouble) really eases up on the bullshit of the game.

Although...maybe this is a case of me knowing too much like with Super Metroid. I guess the game is a bit too cryptic at times.

Again, sounds like Castlevania II, pretty fun to play provided you don't have to play it like you would have in the 1980s.

I've yet to work up the patience to actually complete Castlevania II though.

 

[Marissa Moira]

But doesn't the fact that the game has that kind of following prove it is somehting special though?

Beyond the cultural baggage I think it's too quickly forgotten that it is a great game at the end of the day, especially when taken into context of 1998, it was doing something close to 3D open world long before that was a standard.

But what makes BOTW so good though is the fact that it was willing to go in a very different direction than just keep riding Ocarina's dick.


Zelda 2 is the only mainline entry I haven't played at all.

It sounds much like Castlevania II where they got a little too weird and out there.


Again, sounds like Castlevania II, pretty fun to play provided you don't have to play it like you would have in the 1980s.

I've yet to work up the patience to actually complete Castlevania II though.

Zelda 2 is nothing like Castlevania 2. It's a poorly done Ultima clone where they tried to make it more actiony.