Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[Lord Edge of Leetworth]

Over the course of my life, I've lost many of my loved ones well before they died.

I lost a good friend to a cult; I saw him hollowed out, everything good and pure and unique about him sucked away and replaced with the mindless tenets of the cult, until he was little more than a dogma-spouting automaton. I buried him, in my mind, a decade before he eventually did die from whatever fucked up combination of drugs, abuse and neglect finally did him in. I had to, because no matter how hard I had tried to bring him back, the friend I knew was irretrievably lost.

I lost another friend to cancer. She held on for years, never daring to show her pain and fear, full of joy and passion for every day she still lived, but in the last year of her life her personality was fundamentally altered. She was reduced to an angry, screeching shell of a human being, racked by pain, incapable of controlling her id, and no longer caring to try. She was dead, as far as I was concerned, and whatever compassion I had for the thing that remained of her only existed because of the memory of what she used to mean to me. I mourned her death well before she was put in her grave. The actual moment she passed was a relief.

The trans cult is no different. It takes people and destroys them, crushing and shredding everything that they were and turning them into mere tools of the cult. It is a mind cancer, leeching everything unique out of their personality and leaving behind another mindless tranny clone, obsessed with swirly skirts and socks and grotesque stereotypes of the sex they've convinced themselves they want to be, and the pursuit of ever more extreme body modifications. They exist only to pursue sexual desires that can no longer be fulfilled. I call them dead because everything that they were and could have been is gone, and only a shell is left. The fact that it's still ambulatory is irrelevant. The person I knew is gone and they're never coming back. So I mourn, and I put them in the metaphorical ground, and I move on.

Live long enough and you'll do this many times. It's a part of life.

I am sorry where it's due but I'm not persuaded. These situations are anecdotal and, more importantly, unique. You simply cannot apply cancer to presumed mental illnesses, nor can you call every movement a cult in good faith. Life has many parts to it. It's simply too complex to be skewed by one's personal experiences, even if those experiences are powerful.

Trans stuff isn't the only reason I don't talk to the girl I mentioned here anymore. It probably isn't even the main reason. we simply stopped talking as much because our lives got busier, and nowadays she doesn't seem that interested in talking to me (and I don't do any asshole shit like disrespect pronouns when we speak.). It just makes me sad that it's something she did to herself, since we were close in our teen years. I don't want her to end up with a broken hip at thirty due to osteoporosis from blocking estrogen, or start having issues with roid rage given she already had problems in that area.

My impression is that many on here who speak of those they've lost to transsexuality already had a strained or distant relationship before their familiar had transitioned. In the case of @Taco Salad the person also seemed to have been mentally unhinged way, way before they decided to morph their gender. Point being, how we reasonably tell that these people were lost to transsexuality as opposed to distance, or them simply being an asshole?

Actually, that's what I did when I first came here. I found KF by using uncensored search engines to find support for people who "lost" people to gender ideology. I spent almost a month reading this entire thread in my spare time and assessing exactly that, the balance of extremist remarks to stories told. I am educated and a professional in certain subsets of analytical skills and systems thinking (this sentence is intentionally vague for my personal protection). I tried to do this analysis with as little interference as possible, knowing what I didn't know (the reliability of narrators and data/perceptions; the people in the stories themselves), accounting for my own bias and emotional pain with someone I lost to this ideology that brought me here, and comparing outside statistics and data (including data collected by and "approved" by trans orgs to help give bigger picture context). I did all of this because this is how I make my decisions, with evidence, understanding, nuance and as much neutrality as I can muster. I am not here to be a bigot or enact a prejudiced agenda. I am here because I lost the only person I ever could call a sister to this cult, because she began to despise and harm me just for being female and okay with it. I was endlessly accepting and it wasn't enough.

I choose to believe you. So I congratulate you and I'm sorry for how it has turned out with your past friend. Many people turn out to be traitorous shits regardless of outside influence.

You are trans. That's why you're upset.

Neither are true.

Moving on. In my anecdotal experience I've acquainted with a late transitioner who's managed to prosper in every sense precisely because of the medical assistance offered to them. Are such people "lost"?

 

[AMHOLIO]

@Lord Edge of Leetworth

Moving on. In my anecdotal experience I've acquainted with a late transitioner who's managed to prosper in every sense precisely because of the medical assistance offered to them. Are such people "lost"?

No, but it isn't what the thread is for:

We got other threads you can either necro or make your own on it. I think a thread called "Successful Trans Stories" would be nice, be prepared for people to shit in it though because this is KiwiFarms.

The fact that I have read that more than one person joined this site just to vent without getting told they're a bigot still gets me. You can question them, but you'll be questioning a number of people who are being questioned daily in their home life, like an atheist in a Christian community or vise versa with a Christian in an atheist city. People seeking this thread likely won't have their minds changed when questioned.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Moving on. In my anecdotal experience I've acquainted with a late transitioner who's managed to prosper in every sense precisely because of the medical assistance offered to them. Are such people "lost"?

As someone who has been intimately familiar with the inner going ons of interesectional feminist groups, if you're acquainted with a transitioner, it's the same thing as being acquainted with a (devout) muslim, who teach each other that they can not be real friends with non muslims, but that they should appear to be friends for the sake of the PR of islam (how can you be friends with someone that doesnt put allah first? But how can they find allah without your help?).

For the polyamory group I would see the most toxic and almost violent relationship during the day preparing and then it being presented as a wonderful polyamory multirelationship in the evening for the audience that arrived to talk about their book.

Then you watch polyamory documentaries and there is always someone killing themselves or something like that.

Same thing with transgenders, who were all on antidepressants and emotional messes after the audience was gone. In hindsight, I never figured out why the transgenders self destructed after and the poly people during the day.

So how would you even know this person is really prospering? How do you know this isn't a carefully curated image like contrapoints? Or like a catholic priest if that imagery is more likely to appeal to your "I don't know if you should trust these people" instincts.

Do you know and trust them well enough that you could ask about their dilation experiences and believe their answer? Because if not, then you know nothing about them, except what they want you to think.

 

[Lord Edge of Leetworth]

As someone who has been intimately familiar with the inner going ons of interesectional feminist groups, if you're acquainted with a transitioner, it's the same thing as being acquainted with a (devout) muslim, who teach each other that they can not be real friends with non muslims, but that they should appear to be friends for the sake of the PR of islam (how can you be friends with someone that doesnt put allah first? But how can they find allah without your help?).

For the polyamory group I would see the most toxic and almost violent relationship during the day preparing and then it being presented as a wonderful polyamory multirelationship in the evening for the audience that arrived to talk about their book.

Then you watch polyamory documentaries and there is always someone killing themselves or something like that.

Same thing with transgenders, who were all on antidepressants and emotional messes after the audience was gone. In hindsight, I never figured out why the transgenders self destructed after and the poly people during the day.

So how would you even know this person is really prospering? How do you know this isn't a carefully curated image like contrapoints? Or like a catholic priest if that imagery is more likely to appeal to your "I don't know if you should trust these people" instincts.

Do you know and trust them well enough that you could ask about their dilation experiences and believe their answer? Because if not, then you know nothing about them, except what they want you to think.

I cannot say with absolute certainty since I'm not in their head I can say that they're self-sufficient, well endowed socially, do not have any extraordinary issues and have never (at least not in my presence) preached about their conditioning.

@Lord Edge of Leetworth

No, but it isn't what the thread is for:
View attachment 3131093
We got other threads you can either necro or make your own on it. I think a thread called "Successful Trans Stories" would be nice, be prepared for people to shit in it though because this is KiwiFarms.

The fact that I have read that more than one person joined this site just to vent without getting told they're a bigot still gets me. You can question them, but you'll be questioning a number of people who are being questioned daily in their home life, like an atheist in a Christian community or vise versa with a Christian in an atheist city. People seeking this thread likely won't have their minds changed when questioned.

Okay understood. This is my last entry on this thread and I will leave it at that. Thanks.

 

[Lemmingwise]

do not have any extraordinary issues

...that you know off....

 

[AMHOLIO]

Okay understood. This is my last entry on this thread and I will leave it at that. Thanks.

Thanks for listening and being kind, fren. Feel free to start your own thread or anything like that, I'm happy to hear trans success stories (I know a pre 2000s transitioned trans woman who's a lovely old gal with a good boyfriend). One day this thread won't be used that much anymore, where the fad passes and the people who are true trans men and women will just be the ones transitioning and we'll have a thread about these types of people who are generally destructive joining religious cults or doing drugs, or even getting help for things. I wish good things for you and your friend and hope everyone treats you guys well.

 

[taco freak]

Thanks for listening and being kind, fren. Feel free to start your own thread or anything like that, I'm happy to hear trans success stories (I know a pre 2000s transitioned trans woman who's a lovely old gal with a good boyfriend). One day this thread won't be used that much anymore, where the fad passes and the people who are true trans men and women will just be the ones transitioning and we'll have a thread about these types of people who are generally destructive joining religious cults or doing drugs, or even getting help for things. I wish good things for you and your friend and hope everyone treats you guys well.

I do respect the polite and reasoned disagreement very much, and I would participate in such a thread. There might be some shit kickers on KF but I think most of us are humanist, caring people that don't want to see our fellow man suffer. Most people would support these things (surgery, HRT, etc) if it meant the person truly had a better life. Look at it this way - the risks of all that shit is so extreme, it had better benefit the person and be worth it.

That's exactly why it's important to gatekeep. Not everybody has a body that will handle all of those unnatural, difficult interventions well. Not everyone has the mental stability for such intense changes. When people are ending up WORSE in droves from transitioning... It's time to be examining things from every perspective, because it sure looks like confused, young, mentally ill and autistic people are all being preyed on for money and dubious imaginary "social benefit", all from this extremely important risk/benefit analysis that is PART OF INFORMED CONSENT of medical treatment not being considered with any degree of reality and pragmatism.

Spoiler: Powerlevel

The friend/sister I lost, she was molested as a kid by creepy southern Jesus grandpa, mentally ill and terminally online as an adult (20 fucking years of RSS feeds and "curated media" made this highly intelligent creature borderline retarded, in all seriousness) and THEN her stupid, asinine, pandering doctor put her on both hormone blockers and birth control at the same time, as a grown adult, because "muh dysphoria" never mind that it makes "muh disability" so much worse having almost NO FUCKING HORMONES in the system.

Now she has a shriveled vagina that can't take her boyfriend's micropenis, has "spells of disability" constantly instead of managing that shit properly (or it might very well not exist at all, according to research on the condition, and just be a side effect of this retarded pharm regimen, but either way it's worse), and she wants to go on testosterone because "my body doesn't work anyway and everyone says it makes you feel better".

Make this shit make fucking sense. YOU CAN'T because hormones are how the body communicates with itself, rebuilds itself, grows, learns and responds to stress. Guess who can't think, can't have a conversation, can't do any activities of daily living except Twitter, and can't handle the smallest iota of stress...? But it's COOL U GUYS she doesn't have dysphoria anymore, at least...

Nope, according to social media she doesn't know I know about, it's worse than ever. Almost like, oh I don't know, bodies need the hormones they're designed for????

Edit to say: AND she never ever heard of dysphoria til she joined Twitter. We were just lil emo kids and everything was cool and gender non-conforming, then one day I'm the asshole for calling myself a woman and she's nOt LiKe OtHeR gIrLs and could NEVER lower herself to such a terrible label, she's an esteemed non binary!!

 

[teriyakiburns]

Okay understood. This is my last entry on this thread and I will leave it at that. Thanks.

Here is a cheerful wave, because our lord and feeder doesn't allow us politispergs much else.

 

[Bob jensen]

Thank you all for your suggestions. That sounds flippant, but it is very heartfelt.

(I didn't quote because it was a bit overwhelming so bear with me - I'll try not to write a wall of text in response)

To the one reply targeting the need for a stronger relationship with my daughter - YES. I can't pinpoint when it broke, but to me this was when I realized it:
The entire family went to breakfast one Sunday. After we came home, my daughter (I'll call her Jackie) wrote a 6 page scathing letter to me and my (older) son basically telling us what abusive POS's we are for referring to her as a she, asserting that should we not in the future refer to her with male pronouns and the name of choice (which has changed 4 times now), that we are literally abusive and she will cut us out of her life.

That was the very first I had heard of the whole trans thing. She came at me with a brick. My son said "mom. It's not real. It'll pass. It's a thing on the internet. Don't worry." For about 2 years I asked questions and tried to wrap my head around the inconsistencies, and always came back to NO. (Not out loud).

Once she turned 18, she went to a clinic and got testosterone, one appointment, not a lick of counseling, in UTAH no less. I was dumbfounded.

Now, we dont ever talk about trans things. I have on occasion asked if shes heard of this or that twitter tranny.. while learning she's not that keen on Twitter. Discord is her thing. 100% of the time I have gone to speak to her about whatever, and she's been on Discord, she's been in a group with people she actually knows (her brother too) and they are playing games or bullshitting about normal things. For this reason I have not felt the need to restrict internet access as I too have spoken to and seen these people over the years. It's whoever she's talking too in the wee hours that I'm concerned with.

Which comes to the sleeping schedule. One reason I stipulated volunteering while looking for a job was to get her up during the day and out, away from the internet, without saying as much. I also suggested the art commissioning online, but she absolutely does not want to do that, and she's probably right. She is volunteering, but not the paying job part.

As to having kicked her out before, it was an emotional reaction to something. Not well done. But not unfounded and I stand by it.

To the comment that I'm asking advice from strangers on the internet - yes I am. At this point I have not yet found a counselor or a group locally that isn't walking on shells of cracked eggs supporting it.

And oh ya, Biden announced a something or other Day of the Tranny.

(I wrote a wall of text anyway, didn't I?)

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

If this person is trans I don't understand why on Earth they would come to this thread.

'cause y'all keep taking the bait at full value, lol. Obvious sock though he may be, I won't deny he gets results.

The person I lost simply made Twitter her whole world and I think all the time about how she told me if I had actually been there to be her friend it might have been different.

This is like the most perfect form of poetry meant to barb right into someone, and y'all crazy if you think it's an accident. Those troon circles and spheres spend countless days honing the most manipulative, abusive shit to say to a person - and they practice on each other, 'till it's second nature.

Now, I'm all for optimistically hoping that there's some way to pull people back from the brink, but it's also worth bearing in mind what your number-one priority is: yourself. At some point, you just have to disconnect from these people and draw a clear line of demarcation, so that you don't wind up getting caught in the cyst of their "true self." The barbs are gonna try to cut deep and try to wound you for years to come even after there's no contact remaining - and that's a feature, not a bug, to get you to submit. The reality is, when you are essentially throwing away your finances, your relationships, your identity, your work history, your reliability, and draping yourself in seventeen flags all with differing shades of red, you don't really have many ways to get someone to do what you want. So you try to bore a hole and hope that works.

Because it does, lot of the time. People let themselves get pushed around, let the tactic work. But how, exactly, are you gonna come out on-top and win if they've got you sunk into the depths right with them? You're only gonna ever flip the tables if you make yourself learn detachment. If you don't detach yourself, they aren't ever going to let you see what it would feel like to have hope that you might save 'em - that's kindof the point of all that conditioning. It's like social engineering, except instead of using your credit card for walmart gift cards they're trying to get you to use it to buy them hormones. On some level, you've got to accept there's a possibility that there ain't much to be done - and you're gonna have to move on from that person. Accepting the possibility doesn't mean giving in to it, and you'll be better prepped mentally to handle their bullshit if you've on some level already made peace with it.

Worst comes to worst, you'll be better able to ensure that their transition didn't tank two peoples' lives. Troons and transtrenders are often the most stubborn, flimsiest people in the world; having nothing to lose just encourages them to throw it all the more away. You can get through if you can break the pride, but that's why they're tapped in to synthetic validation and "accomplishment" on a 24-7 basis. It ain't exactly a battle you can always win, and acknowledging this roots you to the same reality you're trying to bring them back to. Discourages erratic, counterproductive behavior.

 

[Aunt Carol]

Which comes to the sleeping schedule. One reason I stipulated volunteering while looking for a job was to get her up during the day and out, away from the internet, without saying as much. I also suggested the art commissioning online, but she absolutely does not want to do that, and she's probably right. She is volunteering, but not the paying job part.

Irregular sleep schedule is easy to miss as part of the problem. It's not just an "early to bed, early to rise" thing; it's part of the cycle.

Spoiler: anecdotal

I have a trans acquaintance (female, molested, anxiety, absolutely no IRL transition but blames IRL problems on her being "trans") who works swing shift, then stays up until 0700 or so on VRChat, just socializing. Any suggestions to make calls or make appointments or go to meetings during the day, pick something up at the store on the way to work--it's all met with "I don't like to get up early."

So she gets up right before work, works, then 12-07 everything is closed and everyone is asleep, so she's lonely unless she's on Discord or VRChat again. Going to bed "early" is hard to choose vs. FOMO and the prospect of attention, and then of course she needs to sleep sometime.

I don't know how hard you were snoopin', but she might just be tabbing to the Discord with the IRL friends when you come in. It's still promising that she's talking to her old friends and similar-aged relatives, though, and that they haven't all been cut off for their un-progressive attitudes.

I think you were smart to make her promise to do something outside of the house, but like someone said earlier, volunteering is too flexible a time commitment. It'd be better if she had a more structured volunteer job, or a class to get to.

I'm pushing a vocational class because it's easy for her to agree to; a month or six weeks, get Mom off my back, lose that feeling of uncertainty. I suspect she knows she can't coast forever, and she knows you're not fully buying "nope no jobs today." Heck, sign her up for one of those CDL courses; nothing more manly than a trucker!

 

[Bob jensen]

Aunt Carol, you're the best! ❤

 

[Lemmingwise]

Which comes to the sleeping schedule. One reason I stipulated volunteering while looking for a job was to get her up during the day and out, away from the internet, without saying as much. I also suggested the art commissioning online, but she absolutely does not want to do that, and she's probably right. She is volunteering, but not the paying job part.

As to having kicked her out before, it was an emotional reaction to something. Not well done. But not unfounded and I stand by it.

To the comment that I'm asking advice from strangers on the internet - yes I am. At this point I have not yet found a counselor or a group locally that isn't walking on shells of cracked eggs supporting it.

Well she is right to not trust you.

You will manipulate her as an adult rather than be straight with her. Have you asked her what she thinks about her sleep schedule? About her internet use?

And you are unwilling to admit mistakes even to yourself. You say it was not well done, and emotional response. So was it an overreaction or not? If so, have you apologized?

These signal to me you have serious work to do on yourself if you want to be a better parent to her.

Thank you all for your suggestions. That sounds flippant, but it is very heartfelt.

You're welcome. My advice may be bitter, but I believe it to be a healthy reality check and for you to consider that there may be something to it.

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

And you are unwilling to admit mistakes even to yourself. You say it was not well done, and emotional response. So was it an overreaction or not? If so, have you apologized?

This is important. No matter how much you think you are in the right and justified, if you make a person feel mistreated you have to repair that damage or the feelings of mistrust will only fester. You have to make her see your point willingly because forcing it on her won't work.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of gay and trans people who completely cut off their parents because they feel mistreated. the fact is that cutting your own parents off forever is accepted as completely normal in the Trans community and no one will question your daughter if she ever does it. This is very dangerous if she ends up moving in with people who may give her drugs or sexually use her.

It's really crucial to understand that she probably has friends saying their own parents/family are abusive (probably where she got the idea with the letter in the first place), and these people would be happy to feed into any story of abuse that she tells them, even if it's really something not abusive like being told to get a job "or else".

 

[Bob jensen]

Well she is right to not trust you.

You will manipulate her as an adult rather than be straight with her. Have you asked her what she thinks about her sleep schedule?

No, she's not right to not trust me.

I am not manipulating her. You don't think I've asked the questions?

You clearly are not/have not been in this situation.

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

No, she's not right to not trust me.

Trying to apply logic to invalidate the actions of a person who is clearly coming from a place of emotion does not usually end well.

 

[Bob jensen]

Sorry for double posting but... I threw her out after 9 months of suggesting "get a job, go to school, learn a trade, etc"...

She told my youngest that if she believed *anything" I or my mother say, that she will disown her for being a Nazi. I drew the line. Told her to leave. You want to live in my home, drive my car, eat my food, have everything provided to you, and claim the provider is evil?

Go then.

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

She told my youngest that if she believed *anything" I or my mother say, that she will disown her for being a Nazi.

"Everyone I don't like is a Nazi" is sadly bog-standard rhetoric for people who've bought into the far left. It's particularly prevalent among LGBT because they're obsessed with the idea of being extreme victims, they want to severely demonize everyone else to feel better about themselves/justify their own actions, and more often than not call themselves "communists" (lol) and are obsessed with the fantasy of a world where the government gives them everything for free.

That's pretty fucked up for her to say to her sibling, but also for "leftists" who act like this, the word "Nazi" is thrown around like candy and its meaning is so watered-down they might as well be calling people "big stinky meanie dummies" because that's what it amounts to.

 

[Lemmingwise]

No, she's not right to not trust me.

I am not manipulating her. You don't think I've asked the questions?

You clearly are not/have not been in this situation.

It's true that I'm not a parent, but I had a friend who had already started crossdressing and all friends and colleagues were cheering jim on so he was set to get an operation. I have posted about him before, probably even in this thread.

I gave him some bitter advice. In that case: people are happy for you now, because it is novel, but that will wear off in 6 months. And the stats say that more people commit suicide after operations than before by a considerable amount.

He got angry with me of course. Who wants to hear that? Just like you did. Just like your kid did at you for misgendering.

He told me how could I think he did not know those risks and why would I say something so mean? And I told him I was offended that he thought I said what I said for any reason other than love for him as a friend and I'll support him either way, I just wouldn't like to see him make a mistake he'll regret.

He ended up not transitioning and stopped crossdressing about a month later.

So yes, I have a history of dealing with this succesfully. And this was years ago when most people were still sleeping on this issue (happened the same year as bruce jenner reveal).

Yes, I have not been in your shoes. I don't know the full story. What you do with my words is up to you. If the shoes fits or not is up to you. But I am not unfamiliar with the pitfalls of this ideology. And if you're looking to see truths you might not want to see, I can be the best guy in your corner, because I don't care if it hurts to hear, I'll only tell you what I believe is the best for you considering the things you say and the signals you put out.

If you are unwilling to consider that I might be saying this is in your best interest, consider that maybe the apple does not fall far from the tree. Your daughter seems unwilling to do the same to you. Why should she do what you are unwilling to do?

Why don't you have a relationship where you make a plan with her, together, on how to use less internet? Why did you suggest something that had a covert plan to reduce her internet usage?

 

[Bob jensen]

Trying to apply logic to invalidate the actions of a person who is clearly coming from a place of emotion does not usually end well.

So here I am back at the start saying I don't know where to go from here. I'm venting. None of it makes sense to me.