Magic The Gathering

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Just when I thought Arena couldn't be more retarded they come out with this bullshit: ( Link to article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/mtg-arena-economy-2022-03-17 )
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Imagine paying 50$ for 16 cards you don't own, can't trade, and can't sell. How many of these would you need for a typical standard deck, maybe 2-3 bundles because of how many rares a deck includes, so you're almost paying as much as you could buy a Standard deck for in physical print, but unlike physical print these cards are completely worthless past rotation if you're not interested in other formats. You can't even dust them because Wizards thinks you're retarded:

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For all of the flaws Hearthstone has, the one thing they did right was allow people to easily dust their shit and make duplicate cards actually worth something as opposed to Arena where duplicates beyond your set of 4 are turned into such a low contribution to your vault meter that it might as well be useless. Somehow Magic has managed to even be worse than Gacha Games which are notorious for bilking people out of money, however with those games usually it's the chase for something very niche that you can do without if necessary, but in Arena it's the part of the game that makes it unplayable if you don't have it.

And if you didn't think Wizards was catering to retards already, there's this gem of a mechanic. They could have named it anything but chose the gayest name they could think of in "Friends Forever" that feels miserably out of place in Magic.
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But that's the thing, whereas something like League of Legends is expanding its IP with additional side games, television shows, merchandise, and more, Magic is collapsing its IP by doing all of these crossovers and trying to monetize it's core game by making it mimic other franchises in the space that actually design their system with them being a digital product, so something like Hearthstone has very few truly dead cards unlike Magic which has a ton of them for draft in each set. The creative vision at Wizards is dying pretty quickly, and while Magic will continue on as it has so much clout from its history, how long before it turns into something like World of Warcraft which coasted for years on trash expansions until recently where it finally began to break apart and FFXIV started to become far more prominent, along with other games, and all of the hypemen started jumping ship to make content for those other games. They've also started talking shit about WoW openly instead of always presenting the positive side of things to keep in good standing with Blizzard.

Flesh and Blood might not be the MtG killer, as no game truly killed WoW but WoW itself, though it's a sign that people are looking for other games already and much more realistically than in the past.
 
Just when I thought Arena couldn't be more retarded they come out with this bullshit: ( Link to article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/mtg-arena-economy-2022-03-17 )
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Imagine paying 50$ for 16 cards you don't own, can't trade, and can't sell. How many of these would you need for a typical standard deck, maybe 2-3 bundles because of how many rares a deck includes, so you're almost paying as much as you could buy a Standard deck for in physical print, but unlike physical print these cards are completely worthless past rotation if you're not interested in other formats. You can't even dust them because Wizards thinks you're retarded:

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For all of the flaws Hearthstone has, the one thing they did right was allow people to easily dust their shit and make duplicate cards actually worth something as opposed to Arena where duplicates beyond your set of 4 are turned into such a low contribution to your vault meter that it might as well be useless. Somehow Magic has managed to even be worse than Gacha Games which are notorious for bilking people out of money, however with those games usually it's the chase for something very niche that you can do without if necessary, but in Arena it's the part of the game that makes it unplayable if you don't have it.
Wait, it was always my understanding you could never go above 4 of in Arena. That if you got 4 of say... a common, then that card would never again appear in packs.

And if you didn't think Wizards was catering to retards already, there's this gem of a mechanic. They could have named it anything but chose the gayest name they could think of in "Friends Forever" that feels miserably out of place in Magic.
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That's the "regular" version of the "Stranger Things" secret lair. That's why "partner" is called "friends forever."
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Wait, it was always my understanding you could never go above 4 of in Arena. That if you got 4 of say... a common, then that card would never again appear in packs.
I don't remember exactly, as it's been a good while since I played, but you could still get duplicates under certain conditions if not in packs, such as drafting and those would go into a vault which when filled would give you 2 rare wild cards and a mythic wild card. I think I only ever filled it up once or twice despite doing an insane amount of drafting as it was possible to go infinite, especially in in release sealed and draft events.

That's the "regular" version of the "Stranger Things" secret lair. That's why "partner" is called "friends forever."
That's even worse as now they're designing keywords with corssovers in mind, which a really bad sign. Though partner does have additional functional outside of Commander.
 
You can have more then 4 copies of a single card if it's released in different sets. I think you can have like 16 or so copies of duress at the moment. Effectively all dupes in common and uncommon past 4 in a given set are automatically dusted (that's basically what the vault is) and all copies past 4 at rare and mythic give you 20/40 gems. The actual throughput of the vault is comically low but it is actually just a dusting system for dupes. Also worth mentioning you have dupe protection when opening packs. If I have 4 Goldspans and I open Kaldheim any mythics I get can not be Goldspans until I have a full mythic playset. Also as long as Arena continues to refund you wildcards for bans it doesn't need a dusting system (just more generous rewards overall)

Problem is that Arena does things like "suspending" cards which is a "temporary" ban that gives you nothing like they recently did to Memory Lapse in Historic for like 6 months before they made it a real ban. And god help you if you craft something to play in Alchemy/Historic because if Arena decides to nerf your card you get nothing idiot because you can still technically play it. Which is the exact opposite of what I would do to people if I was trying to convince them to buy into my format, leaving players holding the bag because you nerfed a card for Alchemy power level in Historic probably doesn't build player goodwill like what recently happened to Lumarch Aspirant.

Friends Forever is fine, it's a "partner's with" with a pool of commanders. They won't add any more partners to that specific pool even if they do revisit the mechanic so they'll name it something else. If I was going to be mad about their shill promotional secret lairs I'd be mad about the Walking Dead ones where they are planning to never make an "in universe" variant of those unique cards.

Also, side note worth mentioning, when they make a "in-universe" version of the out of universe cards for all intents and purposes they are legally the same card. You can not break singleton rules with a Stranger Things card in the same deck as it's in universe counterpart. If they changed the keyword "Friends Forever" for "Allies United" or whatever on the in-universe card it would make this kind of janky rule even more janky. You would just have to know that the two keywords are the same or they would have to print a line on each in-universe card with an explanation that they're the same thing.
 
For all of the flaws Hearthstone has, the one thing they did right was allow people to easily dust their shit and make duplicate cards actually worth something as opposed to Arena where duplicates beyond your set of 4 are turned into such a low contribution to your vault meter that it might as well be useless.
Let's not pretend like dusting is some amazing value system. I forget the precise dust ratio in Hearthstone, but I think its something like 1:4. Essentially, if you dusted your deck after rotation, you'd get 1/4 of a deck back.

That said, its not terribly painful to dust cards in Hearthstone because the game doesn't have a prominent eternal format. If all you care about is the standard ladder, dust away. However, Magic Arena has two popular eternal formats and blowing up old decks is basically robbing you of your ability to play those formats. Dust to buy the new hotness, but then ~whoops~, Wizards released a new card with synergy to an old deck and suddenly you're buying back all those cards you dusted. Good for Wizards, bad for the player.
 
Let's not pretend like dusting is some amazing value system. I forget the precise dust ratio in Hearthstone, but I think its something like 1:4. Essentially, if you dusted your deck after rotation, you'd get 1/4 of a deck back.

That said, its not terribly painful to dust cards in Hearthstone because the game doesn't have a prominent eternal format. If all you care about is the standard ladder, dust away. However, Magic Arena has two popular eternal formats and blowing up old decks is basically robbing you of your ability to play those formats. Dust to buy the new hotness, but then ~whoops~, Wizards released a new card with synergy to an old deck and suddenly you're buying back all those cards you dusted. Good for Wizards, bad for the player.
Arena is what WOTC has wanted for decades and the Commander releases are the only bones being tossed out for paper players. Secret Lairs are made for whales only and everyone knows it.

I wouldn't be shocked if there is no Modern Horizons 3.
 
Also as long as Arena continues to refund you wildcards for bans it doesn't need a dusting system (just more generous rewards overall)

Problem is that Arena does things like "suspending" cards which is a "temporary" ban that gives you nothing like they recently did to Memory Lapse in Historic for like 6 months before they made it a real ban. And god help you if you craft something to play in Alchemy/Historic because if Arena decides to nerf your card you get nothing idiot because you can still technically play it. Which is the exact opposite of what I would do to people if I was trying to convince them to buy into my format, leaving players holding the bag because you nerfed a card for Alchemy power level in Historic probably doesn't build player goodwill like what recently happened to Lumarch Aspirant.
This is why they need a dusting system that isn't the vault. In Hearthstone if they move a card to wild before rotation, basically banning it, you get a full dust refund of the card. However, if they do something like change a card, you get the option to dust the card for a full refund or you can just keep it. Unless they changed it, as I haven't played Hearthstone in a while, there's actually a benefit to keeping a pile of dupes of a card you think is OP, because if it gets nerfed you can dust each copy for the full value and not just the 2 that you're allowed in a deck.

Also, side note worth mentioning, when they make a "in-universe" version of the out of universe cards for all intents and purposes they are legally the same card. You can not break singleton rules with a Stranger Things card in the same deck as it's in universe counterpart. If they changed the keyword "Friends Forever" for "Allies United" or whatever on the in-universe card it would make this kind of janky rule even more janky. You would just have to know that the two keywords are the same or they would have to print a line on each in-universe card with an explanation that they're the same thing.
I'm not saying to name it differently depending on the printing, I'm saying name it something different altogether instead of just going for the reference. As for just knowing the mechanic is the same but with a different name, isn't that essentially like knowing that Lucas is the same as Bjorna? Sure, we get it now that they're the same, but there are plenty of cards that are almost the same, if not the same, in Magic but with different names, so it's not unreasonable for a player to assume they're not the same card and if it is unreasonable then they should just know the mechanic is the same by that reasoning.

Let's not pretend like dusting is some amazing value system. I forget the precise dust ratio in Hearthstone, but I think its something like 1:4. Essentially, if you dusted your deck after rotation, you'd get 1/4 of a deck back.

That said, its not terribly painful to dust cards in Hearthstone because the game doesn't have a prominent eternal format. If all you care about is the standard ladder, dust away. However, Magic Arena has two popular eternal formats and blowing up old decks is basically robbing you of your ability to play those formats. Dust to buy the new hotness, but then ~whoops~, Wizards released a new card with synergy to an old deck and suddenly you're buying back all those cards you dusted. Good for Wizards, bad for the player.
The dusting system in Hearthstone is about as of an amazing value as you can expect in a freemium game, it's also dynamic so the lower rarities have a worse ratio while the highest has the best. For example a golden legendary is a 1:2 ratio and if you dust a golden card which is a cosmetic upgrade you can craft any regular version of the same rarity without issue. As for the existence of eternal formats, that's just a choice you have to make, just like with physical cards.

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Friends Forever is a terrible name for something that could be called Banding.
If banding had been retro set to partner I would have died laughing. Seriously.
 
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Sorry for double post but since the thread is sinking I wanted to bump and share what I have been working very hard on the last few days to make somewhat modern-competitive. It will never be tier 1 but I am determined to make CATS work. I have been winning the majority of my games on MTGO with it which makes me very happy.

CATS

This shell can be made white/green (with Esikas Chariot my favorite new card...that version is great too with all the extra cat-specific lords and such and has a little bit of ramp available in utopia sprawl I just wish there was a mana dork cat! my favorite version is DARKCATS which utilizes most the cards from boros CATS but has all the bw lands instead of boros to be able to run thoughtseize, inquisition, and Dismember. I was thinking about running Mirri the cursed bc she is cool and has flying and haste however she is just a teensy bit too slow.

the black/white version is the most competitive I think. Red white second, then white green, and finally the slowest but most brainless and straightforward, mono white cats. All these decks have the cat companion Kaheera and while I am glad Lurrus caught a ban, it makes me sad I can't use him now because he makes this shell hundreds of times much better and he is also a kittycat. I love the alternate art on the secret lair Leonin Warleader. he is in my mono white and GW versions. And if this card was Modern legal it would make me exquisitely happy unfortunately it is not. This is a great cat and a cute cat
 
If I was going to make a cat tribal deck I'd probably go green/white built around coco. Which is probably going to mean you shave most or all the eskia's chariots but hey. Also best cat in the game will always be this one, he enables so much jank bullshit if you have any ETBs at all.
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It's kindof funny how hard Alchemy has crashed for Wizards. The amount of time and resources that they poured into that stupid thing, which no-one was asking for, only for the content creators the company relies on for free advertisement to all abandon the thing.
 
It's kindof funny how hard Alchemy has crashed for Wizards. The amount of time and resources that they poured into that stupid thing, which no-one was asking for, only for the content creators the company relies on for free advertisement to all abandon the thing.
I had to fight off some urges to burn wildcards to play it last week, purely because there are non-white/green cards with good ETBs in the format like Citystalker Connoisseur that can be comboed with the Diet Kiki-Jiki saga to be rude as hell. I've been trying to brew something outside of white in standard to shove diet Jiki in and the best fit is the izzet giant's deck that everyone forgot after Strixhaven. Which is still not good but Kiki maybe helps it a smidge?
 
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It's kindof funny how hard Alchemy has crashed for Wizards. The amount of time and resources that they poured into that stupid thing, which no-one was asking for, only for the content creators the company relies on for free advertisement to all abandon the thing.
I know TCC was burned, but he was already on thin ice for rejecting Secret Lairs.
 
I had to fight off some urges to burn wildcards to play it last week, purely because there are non-white/green cards with good ETBs in the format like Citystalker Connoisseur that can be comboed with the Diet Kiki-Jiki saga to be rude as hell. I've been trying to brew something outside of white in standard to shove diet Jiki in and the best fit is the izzet giant's deck that everyone forgot after Strixhaven. Which is still not good but Kiki maybe helps it a smidge?
If Alchemy lived up to its namesake, and was just a fun little experiment where they tried out some hearthstone nonsense applied to magic, I think it'd go over well enough. You'd need to either make the alchemy packs have three times the rares or give players a phantom 'alchemy' rare every time they got a normal wildcard in order to not fuck it over, though - hell, giving people an 'eternal' rare with every wildcard to blow on historic or alchemy shit would be a good way to boost interest and build goodwill.

But that was all too hard to grasp, apparently - instead, let's ruin historic by shoving in a bunch of hearthstone cards, charge real wildcards for shit that'll get nerfed and changed (no refunds) at a moments' notice and which will rather obviously detract from development of the main sets themselves, and then act utterly shocked when people don't fall for the obvious cash-grabs contributing to fairly stagnant standards.
I know TCC was burned, but he was already on thin ice for rejecting Secret Lairs.
Goldfish is fairly milquetoast, but they produce steady content with steady quality. With a few of their number working full-time on producing content, they've found it's generally better received to play pioneer than it is to waste any time on Alchemy. It's hugely unpopular, and even seems to be having trouble firing single matches. When a potpourri group like Goldfish drops your ass dead and even shifts away from Historic, you know you've fucked up pretty badly. I get that some people vaguely dislike them purely because they're not b-b-b-b-based and redpilled, but I will gladly watch 10,000 Goldfish streams before I ever once stare at Hambeast reading headlines he doesn't understand in the midst of his latest on-stream midlife crisis.
 
Magic's blessing and curse has always been it's lands.

I've been trying eternal card game which is so close to MtG that I'm impressed they haven't been sued. And when I have lost another round because I'm getting mana flooded (mana screw games bother me less because it still feels like I'm playing) I'm reminded of why I prefer other games.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a bit of luck with my games, strategy on the fly appeals to me, but when a game has a potential luck state of "you cannot win, not even against a chicken playing magic" something is off in design. So yeah, it makes sense that when you can smooth out things just a bit to lessen getting stuck in an unplayable state, of course the game will get more popular.
Eternal was a way better online game than arena. I think influence works works way better than lands and I liked some of the new card mechanics. It's also way more ftp friendly if that's your preference.
It's sad that most card games just try copying hearthtone, slay the spire, or autobattlers.
 
The reality is Alchemy is an absolutely shit concept. They'd have been better off introducing a real cube format or just making older block or standard formats an option for people to play. Hell, if they introduced Alchemy and instead of making up random bullshit they brought random cards into the format from past sets and gave everyone access to them, or charged some gems/whatever for a season pass it would have gone over much better.

There is an issue though that Magic mechanics tend to make shit really self contained as opposed to easily mix and match, but there are usually things like Lightning Rift you can sneak into any format with Cycling or cards like Ichorid that are powerful but not broken and work with graveyard synergies. Even just playing with mana fixing options can really change the format, but nope they want to go "Lawls so random XD"

It's sad that most card games just try copying hearthtone, slay the spire, or autobattlers.
It really sucks as Hearthstone is a very trashy game in reality. At least something like Sorcery is experimenting with card games and making a game targeted for an older audience without the neutered art of most card games, and even someone like Reynad is making his own auto battler that looks dopy but isn't really a card game despite starting as one, because at some point his team realized that you don't have to restrict yourself to cards in a digital medium.
 
Eternal was a way better online game than arena. I think influence works works way better than lands and I liked some of the new card mechanics. It's also way more ftp friendly if that's your preference.
It's sad that most card games just try copying hearthtone, slay the spire, or autobattlers.
The reality is Alchemy is an absolutely shit concept. They'd have been better off introducing a real cube format or just making older block or standard formats an option for people to play. Hell, if they introduced Alchemy and instead of making up random bullshit they brought random cards into the format from past sets and gave everyone access to them, or charged some gems/whatever for a season pass it would have gone over much better.

There is an issue though that Magic mechanics tend to make shit really self contained as opposed to easily mix and match, but there are usually things like Lightning Rift you can sneak into any format with Cycling or cards like Ichorid that are powerful but not broken and work with graveyard synergies. Even just playing with mana fixing options can really change the format, but nope they want to go "Lawls so random XD"


It really sucks as Hearthstone is a very trashy game in reality. At least something like Sorcery is experimenting with card games and making a game targeted for an older audience without the neutered art of most card games, and even someone like Reynad is making his own auto battler that looks dopy but isn't really a card game despite starting as one, because at some point his team realized that you don't have to restrict yourself to cards in a digital medium.

How did Artifact compare to other card games though? The aggressive monetization in the game on launch, and the excessive RNG to the point that it makes player feel like they have little to no control of the game (even though the Artifact purists insist that playing around the RNG is part of the game), made the game a flop.

Although I do wonder how card games would be like today, if Artifact was a massive success story instead.
 
How did Artifact compare to other card games though? The aggressive monetization in the game on launch, and the excessive RNG to the point that it makes player feel like they have little to no control of the game (even though the Artifact purists insist that playing around the RNG is part of the game), made the game a flop.

Although I do wonder how card games would be like today, if Artifact was a massive success story instead.
I never played Artifact but I did hear about how it monetized things to the point of being obnoxious, not sure about RNG. Though that being said, RNG in games is getting more and more popular as an attempt to combat the plethora of data on the internet, but it doesn't actually solve the problem, it just makes shit feel worse. The real solution to internet data solving a meta game is to make a game that's more open ended so that even if the best deck is discovered people can still play other strategies that are slightly worse but more to their liking.

Think of it this way, when Time Spiral was a set net decking was huge but even then people were discovering new strategies and there were a ton of decks people played because Time Spiral had a massive pool of cards, surrounded by two sets with massive pools of cards, and none of them had a strong underlying mechanic as Time Spiral just had a pile of random shit with it's core mechanic being alternate casting costs, Ravnica had so many mechanics due to the guilds, and Lorwyn was tribal themes that had for sets to the block. Then you just had Cold Snap randomly thrown in. There was just a ton to do, and even if you weren't playing the top deck you could pick a bunch of other options to mess around with and do fine because of the massive scope.

Today they toned down how much stuff you have access to, shifted from the weird cards to the "general good stuff" creatures/walkers, and have very strong themes and mechanics. This means that you're pigeon holed into playing general good stuff with the one or two broken mechanics of the set, as opposed to having a wide variety of options that are all good for different reasons. Magic just needs to take a step back and make a set with no keywords for once, as there's a reason why people can still play '93/94 Magic and debate what the best deck is.
 
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