That list of potential updates sounds more like the devs throwing shit(placations) at the wall(player base) to see what sticks and makes them stop screaming. Also lol at "developing ways to deliver content faster". Bungie, never change. New audience, same old bullshit lies. Believe that at your own peril.
The dev time that would be required to make a adequate PvE mode isn't months. It would take a year, and even if implemented would only serve to divide the player base further while not attracting new blood. Bungie doesn't know what the fuck to do with Marathon now and they're going to flail around wildly until either Sony or the leadership crack down on them and force them to wrangle their creative types. This reminds me of the last couple of years of destiny 2 where they would wildly introduce new systems and mechanics, in an attempt to spice things up. Only for them to strip them out or make the irrelevant only a single season later like a BPD retard with autism switching their pet interest every week. I would say it's kinda sad if I hadn't seen this exact behavior from them in the past. Now it's pathetic and shows that they haven't matured as a studio.
Literally the only interesting part of this game is the multiplayer shit and their solution to declining player counts is to introduce a mode where you shoot bots?
Is everyone at Bungie sharing a single braincell or something?
Literally the only interesting part of this game is the multiplayer shit and their solution to declining player counts is to introduce a mode where you shoot bots?
At least half the people in this thread are pissed off the game wasn't entirely about shooting bots and the other half are pissed off the previous bot shooting game went to shit.
But yeah, the declining player count is causing them to abandon the extraction shooter stuff I think.
There are a lot of odd things...
For what little they launched the game with there should be an entire years worth of seasonal content to release, this is normally how games with expanding content are made, but the way they discuss their 2026-2027 road map looks like this is still in beta. It sounds like they don't know what they've made or what they are doing exactly.
They pulled staff from Destiny to further develop marathon, so either they some how made a game with pretty much no content or they have a shit load of content that is being entirely reworked.
They had a 1000 employees, 250 million dollars in development, and a decade of time to make this game? Them having nothing to show for it sounds unplausible, but I think of Blizzard's project titan which turned into Overwatch. I think they are scrambling to put the pieces together and make something with mass appeal.
At least half the people in this thread are pissed off the game wasn't entirely about shooting bots and the other half are pissed off the previous bot shooting game went to shit.
>Abandon the extraction shooter stuff
>Still investing into Marathon
They can't do both. Marathon's core gameplay loop is an extraction shooter at heart. They can't divorce that concept from it now. Marathon cannot be both what it is and destiny 2.5. if they go this path then I hope this game lasts long enough to stand as an example of Bungie's hubris and refusal to the bare minimum to turn a profit.
Hmmmm. You are right, but the actual game play is not dependent on the genre. This is a problem with the game. It seems divorced from itself.
You could plug the runners and weapons out of this game and drop them into an arena shooter it would work. If you dropped them into a pve focused friend slop shooter it could work. It might actually work better.
It's my opinion that this game was made for consoles first and fore most, so many things that make an extraction shooter are just absent from this game and I think this was done in an attempt at making it more accessible for people playing with a controller who are sitting across the room from their display. This is one of the games biggest problems. It ended up being a game for no one.
It's like if you made halo a competitive extraction shooter. It's an arcade shooter skin walking as something it isn't.
too many times I've loaded into a raid in Marathon and said "lets go kill people" for no other reason than to just do it.
I've never done that in Hunt or Tarkov. I felt like I was constantly clawing my way up from the bottom of a pit in those games.
The best part of Tarkov is digging through trash looking for random junk, because you need it to upgrade your hide out or because you need it to craft something. Then you hear some foot steps and you know who ever that was heard you dumpster diving. It's a tense fight to the death over a roll of duct tape you just found or is it? Maybe you can talk your way out of it or maybe you can flee. How many people am I expecting to fight or hide from? It's not something you can predict.
The fight itself isnt even the good part, there is an entire spin off game that's just Tarkov's pvp and its absolute ass. Its the unpredict ableness and uncertainty of it all that makes that game interesting and engaging.
This is the opposite for Marathon. The pvp is the good part and the dumpster diving just gets in the way of it. Competitive games can't do random. Doing Locked rooms or events with players still on the map is the most exhilarating part of the game, but the maps are so small and there is enough time that allow for you to remove the threat, to kill the uncertainty. To make matters worse the best loot comes from the players, not the events. Youre a fool if you dont try and wipe the lobby.
The tasks are also a lot of fun to do, but i dont know if I would want to do the exact same shit a second time. I don't imagine it being nearly as satisfying the second time around. I know what I'm supposed to be doing now, I know what to expect. I think the tasks are the real loop of this game. They were the driving reason I was playing the game. not following up on these is actually insane, I think they really just don’t understand their own game.
In about 50 hours of game play the progression system is basically done and over with, im sure i'll speed through that as well.
Marathon's PvE is far, far, far more interesting than anything going on in Tarkov's. They are right to try and lean into this, but trying to make the game entirely a PvE experience would be a mistake.
They can't divorce that concept from it now. Marathon cannot be both what it is and destiny 2.5. if they go this path then I hope this game lasts long enough to stand as an example of Bungie's hubris and refusal to the bare minimum to turn a profit.
Take a game like Elden Ring or any soulsborne game. They are PvPvE games.
The frequency and intensity of the PvP is such that you forget its there until it happens. There are people who live for that PvP experience and other people who completely ignore it. Both of these players are occupying the same game, they are playing alongside each other and together. I think that's where this game is headed, whether or not it gets there is another thing entirely, but that's also if they don't totally rebuild this thing into something else.
Only for them to strip them out or make the irrelevant only a single season later like a BPD retard with autism switching their pet interest every week. I would say it's kinda sad if I hadn't seen this exact behavior from them in the past. Now it's pathetic and shows that they haven't matured as a studio.
it's just the quarterly growth mind virus. Companies with a long term goal in mind are smart enough to not fall for that, like Jagex and CCP. if you strip away all of the corporate woo and hot air the purpose of live service games is to churn out an endless stream of content that gets obsoleted eventually so people are FOMO'd into engaging with it before it dissapears into the ether. It's an effective monetization model for certain but it also destroys your goodwill with a majority of the playerbase to make 10% of it feel good about themselves. It obviously makes sense why World of Warcraft does things this way but it just seems downright suicidal for a company like bungie to try and pull that shit with a new franchise
They can't do both. Marathon's core gameplay loop is an extraction shooter at heart. They can't divorce that concept from it now. Marathon cannot be both what it is and destiny 2.5. if they go this path then I hope this game lasts long enough to stand as an example of Bungie's hubris and refusal to the bare minimum to turn a profit.
to be honest it would be extremely costly for them to remake marathon into something decent and seeing how they didn't course correct during indev, well, gg's.
to be honest it would be extremely costly for them to remake marathon into something decent and seeing how they didn't course correct during indev, well, gg's.
I'mma be honest, I kinda want to see them try, solely out of morbid curiosity of just how much of Sony's money they're willing to throw into this black hole.
Mostly so we have a benchmark of what Sony will be willing to spend to keep Hulst's baby on life support when it comes out.
I have seen Marathon fans claiming that even if it shuts down they will be happy since the game was a ton of fun.
Man I can't remember the last time I saw this much copium, they are truly a separate species
I'm honestly a little surprised they're reaching for the "PVE mode" lever that quickly, considering how retardedly confident Bungie seemed to be that this was going to be the extraction shooter to end all extraction shooters. It wouldn't have surprised me to see them double down on it for another few months before finally caving in. Nothing short of a major rework is likely to turn things around in an appreciable manner, I think, and even that's iffy.
Meanwhile, Destiny's weekly update was nothing more than a post showing off new emblems for community video/art/fashion contests, something that 99+% of the playerbase will never acquire (one video/art submission is chosen a week, fashion contests are sporadic). Still no news about the next update when the three-month delay is already almost up. And don't think the players haven't noticed which game is getting all the attention; comms weren't great before, but at least they were still happening. Now we aren't even sure if the game director is still around or if he jumped off a bridge sometime in the last few months.
It's legitimately insane to me how they've hung Destiny out to dry like they have. They should be in crisis mode talking with the community and showing how they plan on unfucking the mess they left the game in, but instead it's like they're just pretending it doesn't exist while they try to salvage their $200m shitshow. Completely retarded.
I unironically think we're about to see Destiny get shut down in favor of Marathon.
You may think Bungie/Sony aren't stupid enough to do that, but look at the facts:
-Marathon was talked about by Sony in their latest earnings call while Destiny wasn't mentioned at all.
-Some of the biggest Destiny guys like Aztecross, Tassi, etc. have gone into extreme blackpill/anger mode recently, and they all have Bungie sources even though they like to play dumb.
-Tassi recently saying that more Destiny devs have been moved to Marathon.
-The total silence about D2's future despite them previously saying there would be updates mid-May (we're there and TWIDs continue to be barren wastelands).
-Maybe the biggest one of all... them now adding PVE to Marathon flies directly in the face of what they were saying pre-release, that Marathon is for PVPers while PVE people should stick to Destiny. It feels like a sudden change of course due to abysmal players numbers, but now that Marathon will have both... what will the point of Destiny be?
All of this signals to me that a decision was recently made to go all in on Marathon and put Destiny in the guillotine.
It's been played the fuck out, the game is a decade old. They dont have the time or money to make a D3, if they want to go down that road the best they can do is turn Marathon into D3.
If they cant stay afloat with a Marathon rebuild they wont make it do a D3 release and D2 is dead anyways.
to be honest it would be extremely costly for them to remake marathon into something decent and seeing how they didn't course correct during indev, well, gg's.
The Extraction esport experiment for consoles has failed. Sticking with Marathon as is will lead to the company shuttering its doors.
They could focus on developing for Destiny 2, but its A decade old fps with lower player counts than Marathon. It's fucking dead and no ones coming back to save Bungie.
They could make a brand new game which would cost several hundred million more and another 5 years to deliver, which also has no guarantee of success. Do they have that kind of time and resources? I would think not.
I keep saying this shit and i keep getting Mati and optimism stickers for it page after page. Every one thought i was retarded for saying there would be a S2 and everyone thought i was retarded for saying a S3 rebuild was coming, but its looking pretty fucking real.
Seems obvious to me, what else is there at this point?
Rebuild your game and hope you survive long enough to make another game that people want to play.
Frankly, this is a good move (almost certainly too little too late, but credit where credit is due). With that said, I’m much more interested in the prospect of seeing all the people on Reddit and Xitter who previously shat all over any suggestion to appeal to the casuals do a 180 and praise Bungie for this decision and pretend that they were always in lockstep with an idea like this.
Probably my favorite part of The Final Shape (besides the raid) was the one piece of lore where The Traveler is basically forced to acknowledge that the Winnower and Sword Logic is correct: you must fight for your existence in the universe, you must take a stand (and kill if necessary) to preserve yourself.
From Ergo Sum (the sword). You is the Traveler speaking:
You are drowning. The water roils, dragging you down, and you are tired, so tired. The deep, dark ocean has gotten into your lungs, droplets of ink dispersing in silver blood. This time, you think, this time It has won. But when you look up, you see a figure diving toward you, fighting their way down through the suffocating waves, reaching out just like you've reached out to them, so many times before.
You have so little strength left, but you do have it, that last gasp of air in your chest. You reach back—and in your hand is a sword.
keep saying this shit and i keep getting Mati and optimism stickers for it page after page. Every one thought i was retarded for saying there would be a S2 and everyone thought i was retarded for saying a S3 rebuild was coming, but its looking pretty fucking real.
Seems obvious to me, what else is there at this point?
I agree with everything you say in terms of what's needed to turn the game around. The changes they are doing now might be too little too late, in that they are very good, but they are designed to retain players that have already left and probably aren't coming back.
The ppl predicting the game will be dead soon is just wrong - there's going to be a year or two of seasons no matter what as long as there's a dedicated fanbase. The most loyal 1.2 million or so Bungie fans bought Marathon. 200k-300k are still playing. 4% of the userbase, about 35k ppl, hit season level 100 and are playing "competitively" in some sense. If they kill the game early they alienate the last slice of their customer base that isn't pissed at them. That means next time they try to launch a game all the online conversations will be D2 and Marathon fans dragging Bungie for abandoning them both.
Also, putting aside profitability, at this point Bungie needs to prove it can make a game people want to play. They need to turn Marathon around to keep credibility with Sony and shareholders. And for Sony's part, it makes sense to try to put more money into Marathon if it could translate to more revenue 6 months from now, and if Bungie fails Sony mgmt look like complete idiots - Sony failed to take any warning from Microsoft/Activision first acquired/partnered with Bungie and then disgorging them bc they sucked to work with. Then Sony failed to rein them in once bought.
The alternative to betting more on Marathon is putting resources into their next game which will release 3-5 years, meaning no revenue at all. Hard for Sony to resist sending good money after bad esp when Fairgame$ is going to be DOA.
In that sense, Marathon might actually be worse than Concord, in that Sony is forced to burn tens of millions of dollars a year supporting Marathon at a loss.
Probably my favorite part of The Final Shape (besides the raid) was the one piece of lore where The Traveler is basically forced to acknowledge that the Winnower and Sword Logic is correct: you must fight for your existence in the universe, you must take a stand (and kill if necessary) to preserve yourself.
the Cager in this is Ghaul, obviously, but the one who "comes back up the path, reeking (of Darkness) Is Savathun.
This is, basically the only written text going over the mindset of the Gardener, we had the WInnower, and they speak as someone who feels betrayed by the Gardener changing the rules, but this paints the Gardener as burdened fool, someone swimming desperately against the grain of existence, no Godly assurance, just fear, and despair at the loss they incur by even trying.
The backstory of the setting was so good, shame about all the shit they did with the various plots and characters, its neat that Humanity is basically the very very last race chosen for the fighting against an impossible to grasp cosmic battle against the two creators of the Universe, simply because Man was spared by a trickster/liar Hive God and should have been, on the ledger already extinct, and thus a complete fluke that they exist at all and are thus un-accounted for in any sort of prophecy or "Destiny" that all the big forces know about.
Honestly even ignoring Marathon entirely - look Sony’s flat out said PC is the primary platform, I’m already assuming the console numbers are dire - there’s so many Sony Exclusives I want to laugh at that I can’t believe they’d actually approve this.
But it wouldn’t be Sony if they didn’t do something retarded.
