Mega Rad Gun Thread

[Club Sandwich]

I just got my concealed-carry permit and my go-to Gunsmith strongly advised against using the one gun I own right now (Para-Ordnance P14-45) because apparently .45 ACP is a "overkill" self-defense round.

i challenge someone's idea that a cartridge that participated in 100 years of planet-wide conflict with general success is "overkill" for self-defense. however a P14-45 is a rather large option for concealment so i would recommend against using it as a CC weapon purely because it would be annoying to consistently conceal and carry throughout the year.

there are basically three P38 designs: the all-steel model, which is quite good and collectible, the refurbished P38 (west german) and the later P1 model (aluminum frame and is a bit different in other aspects). none should be used with +P ammunition in any circumstance. the last "P38" are the late variations on the design like the Beretta 51, the PHP, even some of the 92 series pistols which share many design details with the P38. much like the 1911, the P38 is a lightweight service pistol, popular for many many years in many many conflicts in many many places.

try your hands on a late market P1 - it's comfortable, lightweight, easy to find parts for, and is quite inexpensive and still pretty neat. almost any slim single stack 9mm in a steel frame should work for most people, and if you can find one, i do recommend something like the S&W 3913 for most people (and there are many options of similar size and design).

The gunsmith claimed that .45 would go through whoever was assaulting me and I would be responsible for whatever it hits passing through

a .45 has more energy than a 9mm until around 40 or 50 meters, however at distances where a CC for self defense is relevant, a 9mm will also "go through" a person. also the federal murder rule in US generally has the responsibility of damage on the person committing the crime, not the responder or victim. while you should be responsible and aware when drawing to defend yourself, you are drawing to defend yourself and presumably not doing so recklessly.

 

[ShortBusDriver]

Thanks for the input- I think I'll just carry the 1911 I have then. The gunsmith claimed that .45 would go through whoever was assaulting me and I would be responsible for whatever it hits passing through- but if I have to use deadly force then I guess it doesn't matter at that point considering there will be a police investigation regardless.

That's actually the opposite, 9mm is far more likely to over-penetrate because of it's velocity.

People don't think about 9mm over penetrating because they're generally firing hollowpoints or something that expands, but FMJ or even those solid copper Fort Scott munitions can defeat IIIA body armor.

 

[(‿ˠ‿)]

Does anybody have any opinions about the Walther P-38 and it's variants?

I just got my concealed-carry permit and my go-to Gunsmith strongly advised against using the one gun I own right now (Para-Ordnance P14-45) because apparently .45 ACP is a "overkill" self-defense round. I found one of the West-German Walther P-38's at a nearby pawn shop for around $800, and I figure if I use some kind of super-charged hollow-point self defense round it would make up for the 9mm's general shittiness (I hate 9mm for it's lack of stopping power, but love German firearms and cars).

I dunno why .45 would be "overkill," most pistols just punch holes through living things that end up slightly smaller than the final diameter of the projectile. It does give you heavier recoil and lower capacity than 9mm, but usually with a somewhat larger wound diameter. Despite that, it's still not like a .45 is hauling around a Draco or anything lol

9mm is perfectly fine defensive round that does a good job balancing recoil, capacity, and performance. There's a reason that a lot of law enforcement is going back to 9mm after spending years looking for something better. That's because in real-life scenarios a 9mm, a .40, and a .45 put into the same spot on an aggressor tend to pretty much produce the same result. You can get +P 9mm for increased expansion and penetration if you think you need it, but whether or not the increased wear and recoil it's worth it depends on things like the gun's barrel length and the specifics of the defensive round itself. Sometimes that extra juice just gets turned into more muzzle flash, or the projectile design doesn't see increased expansion with the increased muzzle velocity.

I wouldn't carry a P38 unless I had no other alternative, newer doublestack 9mm ultracompacts are all over the market and are better carry guns in every way. A P38 would be cool to own but as a collectors item and range toy, at least in my mind. The Shield Plus, Hellcat, P365, and other 9mm ultracompacts are smaller, lighter, cheaper, higher-capacity, have a lot of custom options for accessories like lights and kydex holsters, and likely work better with JHP defensive ammo that didn't exist in 1938. Old guns were designed to feed the ammo that existed at the time, which was round-nose FMJ, while newer defensive JHP bullets can have a very different shape that doesn't always play nice with feed ramp geometry designed with FMJ in mind

 

[Xx_Retard Faggot 1488_xX]

I'm tempted to buy a new Henry since they actually put a side gate on some of their rifles now. Anyone know of any good alternatives? I don't think Marlin's up and running yet and I'm weary to purchase anything from them again since my 44 is a complete turd.

May not be exactly what your looking for, but chiappa has some lever guns (1886 for example) that are neat/cute lookin but definitely pricy (made in Italy).

Edit to avoid doubleposting:

Looking for a weapon light for my AR. have a very short rail on this build so it will either need to be a magpul MLOK mount that pushes it forward or a barrel mount. I know Streamlight and Surefire are common recommends, but does anyone have good recommendations for the exact model? not knowledgable on what to look for regarding battery type and lumens.

 

[troon patrol]

I got tired of the the 9mm vs .45 endless debate and went .40 . My understanding is it's the most popular cartridge in use with north American law enforcement; groups have spent more time and money than I ever will have and landed on the .40 so I joined the bandwagon. I don't think there is anything wrong with 9mm/.45 as long as one is using JHPs.

My "battle" AR is in .300blk because 5.56 does not perform with an SBR length barrel like the 7.5" I am rocking. I live in an urban environment 100 yard self defense shots are very unrealistic but I have no problem making the steel ring at that distance.

 

[Club Sandwich]

I know Streamlight and Surefire are common recommends, but does anyone have good recommendations for the exact model? not knowledgable on what to look for regarding battery type and lumens.

determine the mount and what you are using for. generally anything over 500 lumens (the brightness of light by volume as perceived by the human eye) is sufficient for identifying a target out to several dozen meters or even further in some circumstances. navigation lights should be 100 lumens or maybe a bit more so you aren't wasting battery life when walking around.

different lights may also have options for the bulb type (CREE or OLED, are common, as are older ones which are still viable like Xenon or something) and reflector to shape the projected light. arguably the reflector will be very important if you want something to cover a wide area since you are using it outdoors, or something a bit more focused to get more distance from the same wattage output. battery will determine either your runtime or your overall output capacity.

these days, unless you already have a lot of gear that uses CR123 batteries, it might be best to go with a rechargeable 18650 battery. the Surefire Mini Scout Light Pro is an easy recommendation for most situations and people, and it compatible with a wide array of accessories on the market and includes mount options for minimal footprint. the alternate with a rechargeable battery (and is a bit bigger as well, which might not work for your application) is the Duel Fuel Scout Light Pro.

it's also worth noting that light discipline is also important: your light has a weapon attached, so what you point the light as also has a rifle pointed at them. likewise batteries are limited in life, so don't use high output when not needed. light works both ways too, so using a light from a dark area into a lit area is often not needed, and a light will often ruin your night vision, making some efforts more difficult when you can instead use a handheld lower power flashlight like an E2B or something.

also there are many options from Olight, Cloud Defense, Modlight, Inforce, L3, Steiner, et c, so try to determine what your needs are (in terms of size, accessorizing, price, logistics, compatibility, et c) and make a little short list to compare. another popular option that some people do is purchase a pistol weaponlight as they tend to be compact.

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

Got three questions for all our discerning Patricians here:

With the wave of Turkish made magazine fed semi-autos really digging into the market these days, what are your opinions on them? I am thinking of guns like the Century Dynamics BF12, GForce Arms AR12, etc.

Do any of the Mag Fed Semi-auto shotguns work really reliably?

Got any recommendations on a good, cheap, 20 Gauge shotgun that will survive hard use until well after my bones have long turned to dust, and my Great Great Grandchildren are using it to keep the illegal (space) aliens at bay? It can be anything from a break-action on up.

It's not a box fed gun, but the Mossberg 930/940 is fairly well-regarded as cheap semi-autos go. I've got a 930 in a ridiculous 12+1 goose gun configuration that runs like a top. As for a cheap scattergat, the Maverick 88 is about as cheap as it gets and will still take a beating.

 

[DavidS877]

I went with .40 as well. I did a totally unscentific test with a 6x6 timber, FMJ made it almost all the way through and was poking out, but the HydraShock I use for carry only made it a couple inches. I wanted to setup some drywall but I got bored. A hollowpoint hitting your target is unlikely to have a problem with overpenetration in almost all cases(9mm 40 45 etc).

 

[AGPinochet]

y understanding is it's the most popular cartridge in use with north American law enforcement

10-15 years ago you would be correct, then +P 9mm came onto the scene and now all the cool guys use 9mm. Now .40 is a dying cartridge and I suspect that by 2030 it will have gone the way of .45 GAP.

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

10-15 years ago you would be correct, then +P 9mm came onto the scene and now all the cool guys use 9mm. Now .40 is a dying cartridge and I suspect that by 2030 it will have gone the way of .45 GAP.

The recent spate of subcompact "semi-double stack" 9s that can take +P ammo like the P365, Hellcat, Max9 and the like make a strong case for 9mm - you get very close to the capacity of a more traditional compact in a very close to subcompact footprint. They're a bit snappy to shoot, (especially the ones with the short grips and flush mags), but just about perfect for a carry gun.

 

[AGPinochet]

subcompact "semi-double stack"

The Industry term is "Micro Compact" and the magazines are referred to as "1.5x stack"

They're a bit snappy to shoot, (especially the ones with the short grips and flush mags), but just about perfect for a carry gun.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next "9mm vs .45"/"Revolver vs Semi auto"/"Steel vs Polymer frame"/"DA/SA vs Striker" debate is "Glock 19/Glock 19 equivalent with Light an Optic vs Sig P365/Sig P365 equivelent with light an optic vs Sig P365XL/Sig P365XL with Light and Optic"

 

[troon patrol]

10-15 years ago you would be correct, then +P 9mm came onto the scene and now all the cool guys use 9mm. Now .40 is a dying cartridge and I suspect that by 2030 it will have gone the way of .45 GAP.

These guys you speak of, who are they? .40 will be around forever dying cartridges have tendency to last about just about 10 years. .40 has been running strong ever since it was created. 6.8 spc .357 sig are good examples of dying if not dead cartridges, .45 GAP was dead before it ever left the gate.

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

.45 GAP

...that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. ...a long time.

 

[White Devil]

These guys you speak of, who are they? .40 will be around forever dying cartridges have tendency to last about just about 10 years. .40 has been running strong ever since it was created. 6.8 spc .357 sig are good examples of dying if not dead cartridges, .45 GAP was dead before it ever left the gate.

I don't know of a single agency in my State that uses .40 anymore. I do know a boomer that refuses to let go of his .40 as a concealed though.

For all intents and purposes, it's a dead cartridge for law enforcement at large.

 

[UVB-76]

The gunsmith claimed that .45 would go through whoever was assaulting me

That doesn't make any sense. Pretty much all modern self-defense bullets are designed to pass FBI testing, and have almost no energy left once they exit the body. The only way for the defensive round to go through and remain lethal is a failure to expand, which can happen with any caliber.
He sounds like a turbofudd who thinks .45 has magical properties but goes all the way back around to recommending against it because it's too powerful.

That's actually the opposite, 9mm is far more likely to over-penetrate because of it's velocity.

People don't think about 9mm over penetrating because they're generally firing hollowpoints or something that expands, but FMJ or even those solid copper Fort Scott munitions can defeat IIIA body armor.

Well that's not exactly true either. Higher velocity also means higher drag, and 9mm bullets are typically lighter so they also lose energy quicker.
IIIA is made to stop .357 Sig and .44 Mag. Normal FMJ 9mm doesn't go through IIIA, it's the light for caliber and hard material loads that can do it. Even 115gr ball ammo gets stopped.

 

[Meat Target]

Does anybody have any opinions about the Walther P-38 and it's variants?

I just got my concealed-carry permit and my go-to Gunsmith strongly advised against using the one gun I own right now (Para-Ordnance P14-45) because apparently .45 ACP is a "overkill" self-defense round. I found one of the West-German Walther P-38's at a nearby pawn shop for around $800, and I figure if I use some kind of super-charged hollow-point self defense round it would make up for the 9mm's general shittiness (I hate 9mm for it's lack of stopping power, but love German firearms and cars).

I would not carry something as cool and historically significant as a P38. Your carry gun should be something you would not be heartbroken to never see again; the moment you shoot in self-defense, it's going in the evidence locker, so you can basically kiss it goodbye.

 

[AGPinochet]

These guys you speak

The ones I know for sure are FBI and CBP. I can also almost guarantee that The rest of the DHS and the DEA are back on the 9mm train. State level agencies are also moving back to 9mm and those that aren't are sticking with .40 because they have a million rounds of it. Also literally every American SF group and the American Army and Marines use 9mm handguns (now admittedly this is for NATO standardizations but Winchester is making some really hot ammo for them)

 

[White Devil]

The ones I know for sure are FBI and CBP. I can also almost guarantee that The rest of the DHS and the DEA are back on the 9mm train. State level agencies are also moving back to 9mm and those that aren't are sticking with .40 because they have a million rounds of it. Also literally every American SF group and the American Army and Marines use 9mm handguns (now admittedly this is for NATO standardizations but Winchester is making some really hot ammo for them)

CBP (here at least) are using Glocks in 9mm. They're going to be moving to optics ready Glocks soon if they haven't already. Everyone else is back on 9mm, DHS has been purchasing millions of rounds of 9mm per year since the Obama administration, DOE as well. State Police here buy at least 5 million rounds of 9mm a year, despite there only being around 600~ officers.

 

[AGPinochet]

DHS has been purchasing millions of rounds of 9mm per year since the Obama administration, DOE as well.

I totally forgot about the DHS Orders, didn't they give Speer something like $860M for an unlimited quantity, 5 year contract or something?

 

[White Devil]

I totally forgot about the DHS Orders, didn't they give Speer something like $860M for an unlimited quantity, 5 year contract or something?

I don't know the specifics so can't really answer that.