Mega Rad Gun Thread

@AGPinochet from left to right those Russian prototype cartridges are 6.7X47, 6.5X39, and then the 6.02X41.
They're seemingly going after the 6.8X51, and the other two are near clones of the Grendel and ARC. They're presumably going after higher pressures than the wimpy 7.62 and the somewhat hotter 5.45 but that'll mean there's gonna be some pretty serious redesigns to actually make use of that. During the brief use of 7N22 they popped lots of guns and anything using it now has usually been hand picked, and still breaks relatively fast. Being that the ARCs and Grendel, and the 7.62 are based off 220 Russian the first two are essentially perfect AK cartridges, especially with steel cases and amped up to 65K.
 
Lol at the artillery piece amounts of holdover on that deer, makes me wonder what scope he's using.
Dude has all the MOAs of scope rail cant.
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Completely unrelated, but has anyone heard anything about the ICAR/AR-12.5 since Shot Show?
 
I do wonder how much of that new Russian small arms cartridge is along the same lines of the SU-57 and Armata: "we have to do something to look innovative and keeping up with the West". They make a big fuss about it and produce some prototypes. And in the end, they really do fuck all but to modernize their Soviet era designs, because they can't put those things into mass production. So like @AGPinochet said, AK-12M2 in 5.45

Though if they really wanted to, the small arms upgrade would actually be doable, because it doesn't require Western components and even the Russians can't fuck that up, they do know how to make guns.
 
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I do wonder how much of that new Russian small arms cartridge is along the same lines of the SU-57 and Armata: "we have to do something to look innovative and keeping up with the West". They make a big fuss about it and produce some prototypes. And in the end, they really do fuck all but to modernize their Soviet era designs, because they can't put those things into mass production. So like @AGPinochet said, AK-12M2 in 5.45

Though if they really wanted to, the small arms upgrade would actually be doable, because it doesn't require Western components and even the Russians can't fuck that up, they do know how to make guns.

I mean, really the best thing you can say about the majority of Russian weapons and equipment is "It works...much of the time." The radar cross section of the Su-57 is...I mean, it's nowhere near as stealthy as American designs. I think even the Chinese J-20 is stealthier, and it's likewise nowhere near as good as the F-22 and F-35. There was an airshow in China not too long ago where the Russians were invited to bring their aircraft to show off, and it was discovered the panels on the Su-57 were attached with fucking wood screws. Like, literal Phillips head wood screws. And there were large, uneven gaps between the panels all over the fuselage.

And then there's their "world leading" S-400 air defense system, the one that for years they claimed could not just detect Western stealth aircraft, but also lock on and shoot them down. Well, turns out that was a lie and they can't even detect small drones which have a much higher radar signature than an F-35.

They can come up with some interesting designs at times, like the An-94 or those new LMGs where the belt feed mechanism is all self-contained in quick change ammo boxes, but they never seem to go anywhere and they always end up iterating on the Kalashnikov and other Soviet designs that date back to damn near World War II.

And with the staggering amount of corruption everywhere in Russia from Putin himself, to the MIC contractors, all the way down to the lowest ranked soldiers, I just don't see Russia modernizing to a comparable level as Western militaries. Pretty much every Western military views optics on rifles as standard issue now, but in the Russian military it's still very uncommon to see infantry with optics on their rifles. It's still iron sights for the most part, unless the soldier bought the optic himself (and his body armor, and decent boots and gear, and batteries, and food, and...). They'll roll out the occasional vanity project that they'll hype up as beating anything the West has, build ten or fifteen of them that will still essentially be prototypes and not full production models, parade them around for propaganda purposes, and they'll live their entire lives on some military base somewhere deep in Russia and far away from the battlefield for fear of losing a single one to enemy fire. And when the West does finally get to analyze one with our sensor systems, get our hands on some wreckage, or a defector steals one to bring to the West like the MiG-25, we inevitably find out it's far less capable and of much poorer quality than our stuff and it's all been hype and propaganda the entire time.
 
I do wonder how much of that new Russian small arms cartridge is along the same lines of the SU-57 and Armata: "we have to do something to look innovative and keeping up with the West". They make a big fuss about it and produce some prototypes. And in the end, they really do fuck all but to modernize their Soviet era designs, because they can't put those things into mass production. So like @AGPinochet said, AK-12M2 in 5.45

Though if they really wanted to, the small arms upgrade would actually be doable, because it doesn't require Western components and even the Russians can't fuck that up, they do know how to make guns.
I think it's certainly more likely than the rest of their junk, if only because small-arms don't require advance electronics. They have a robust military and civilian arms industry so mass production shouldn't be a problem for them.



I've burnt almost a pound of H110 in the last two weeks, accounting for about 130 rounds of .45 Colt. it goes quick when you really get after shooting.
 
There was an airshow in China not too long ago where the Russians were invited to bring their aircraft to show off, and it was discovered the panels on the Su-57 were attached with fucking wood screws. Like, literal Phillips head wood screws. And there were large, uneven gaps between the panels all over the fuselage.

I feel dirty for defending Russians, but that Su-57 "054 Blue" is also known as T-50-4, the 4th flying prototype of Su-57. It flew for the first time in late 2012 and has been since then the machine that does all the air shows. And because it is a prototype aircraft, yeah it is rather crudely constructed. Makes swapping parts and accessing test equipment easier when you can just strip the panels off. Its not supposed to be a 1:1 depiction of current in production Su-57s, just good enough to throw at airshows at this point. Though that didn't stop the couple first production Su-57s to have non flat screws. The Felon in the end is not some super plane, F-22 and F-35 will dance circles around it. It is better than Su-35, but does it really matter if they can barely reach ten produced annually? Meanwhile Lockmart alone outproduces whole Russian aviation sector every year.
 
I feel dirty for defending Russians, but that Su-57 "054 Blue" is also known as T-50-4, the 4th flying prototype of Su-57. It flew for the first time in late 2012 and has been since then the machine that does all the air shows. And because it is a prototype aircraft, yeah it is rather crudely constructed. Makes swapping parts and accessing test equipment easier when you can just strip the panels off. Its not supposed to be a 1:1 depiction of current in production Su-57s, just good enough to throw at airshows at this point. Though that didn't stop the couple first production Su-57s to have non flat screws. The Felon in the end is not some super plane, F-22 and F-35 will dance circles around it. It is better than Su-35, but does it really matter if they can barely reach ten produced annually? Meanwhile Lockmart alone outproduces whole Russian aviation sector every year.

Ask yourself this: Would Northrop, LockMart, Boeing, General Dynamics, or any other American MIC contractor think it's acceptable to show off anything they've produced, even a prototype or proof of concept, with gaps between the panels and Phillips head wood screws used in place of proper bolts? Especially something that is supposed to represent their capacity to build bleeding edge weapons and technology? Of course not. They would be absolutely ashamed of something like that and it would rightfully reflect negatively on their reputation. And when they do fuck up, such as what's been happening with SIG and the P320 and XM7 program, they get mocked ruthlessly for it. But here's Russia proudly displaying that shit in foreign countries, actively seeking buyers with such a sorry example, and boasting that it can beat anything America or the rest of the West has to offer.

One major difference between America and Russia: Russia always over-emphasizes their capabilities while underperforming in real life, while America always under-emphasizes their capabilities so that it will come as a surprise to our enemies when they see what our systems and weapons can really do.
 
Does anyone know of an absolute height quick detach flip to side mount besides the factory one (not actually absolute height), or the Wilcox one (kind of silly that only the magnifier detaches and is it a wobbly piece of shit like the factory Aimpoint magnifier mount?)

I’m looking at the Trijicon mount, and it seems the correct height, but I have to mill out for the lug on the Eotech magnifier.
 
Pretty much every Western military views optics on rifles as standard issue now, but in the Russian military it's still very uncommon to see infantry with optics on their rifles. It's still iron sights for the most part, unless the soldier bought the optic himself (and his body armor, and decent boots and gear, and batteries, and food, and...).
The cope during the opening invasion when everyone was wondering why Russians didn’t have optics on their rifles was hilarious.


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Right now optics won’t make a huge difference in the fight since it’s all trench fighting, drones, and artillery (although would be nice for the guys on the ground) but for me and all the issues that were cropping up in the initial invasion (lack of coordination, radios, tires rotted on vehicles) it really shattered the “Russia is a huge global threat we have to take seriously”. Maybe things have changed on the ground in comparison but right now I wouldn’t want to be the Baltics, granted they’re NATO but the time it’ll take to get the US fully rolled up isn’t good.
 
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We are seeing the beginning of infantry unit warfare.
Drones with explosive munitions.
The service rifle will become secondary.
 
We are seeing the beginning of infantry unit warfare.
Drones with explosive munitions.
The service rifle will become secondary.
The service rifle has been secondary to artillerly since WW1. As for MUH' DROOOONS, MILLIONS OF CHEAP CHINESE KILLER DROOOOOONS SWARMING THE ENTIRE WESTOID HATO SKIES BLOCKING OUT THE SUN ALREADY LAST WEEK, QUAKE IN YOUR BOOTS AND KILL YOURSELF NOW BECAUSE THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO WAY WE CAN DEAL WITH THE MIGHT OF BRICS-BULLS.. T: John Smith from Virginia oblast, i'd just like to point out that neither Russia or Ukraine has encrypted fucking radios and they both listen in on each other's radio comms. I point this out because neither side has the capability to do electronic warfare, and what'll actually happen should there be a SWARM OF KILLER DROOOOOONS SWEEPING ACROSS HATO BORDERS is this:
>XAXAXAXA TAKE THIS NAZI FASCIST HATO PIGS
>a 300lb Shaniqua lazily walks over to turn the electronic interference on and instantly jams every single chinesium drone in a 100 mile radius, dropping them like a sack of explosive bricks on top of baffled Russian mobiks

TL;DR: DROOOON-posting is even more retarded than NOOOOOOK-posting. Stop falling for fear-porn, cheap drones only work in Ukraine because both sides are backwards and retarded post-soviet shitholes.
 
We are seeing the beginning of infantry unit warfare.
Drones with explosive munitions.
The service rifle will become secondary.
FPV drones are not going to replace infantry, just like none of the previous wunderwaffen. Like I said on the Guntuber thread, people really need to beware about overrating what the drones can do on the modern battlefield, because the Ukrainian war has essentially been trench warfare since the fall of 2022. Just because neither side can properly conduct combined arms warfare to break the stalemate, doesn't mean that the traditional means of warfare are useless. Drones serve a specific purpose nowadays, when you can easily hunt standalone soldiers with those, and small squadrons. If it was actual moving warfare, those drones would be useful as recon and calling in actual artillery strikes.

And until we have actual robots taking the place of infantry, you will need infantry. As long as you need infantry, you will need service rifles.
 
FPV drones are not going to replace infantry, just like none of the previous wunderwaffen. Like I said on the Guntuber thread, people really need to beware about overrating what the drones can do on the modern battlefield, because the Ukrainian war has essentially been trench warfare since the fall of 2022. Just because neither side can properly conduct combined arms warfare to break the stalemate, doesn't mean that the traditional means of warfare are useless. Drones serve a specific purpose nowadays, when you can easily hunt standalone soldiers with those, and small squadrons. If it was actual moving warfare, those drones would be useful as recon and calling in actual artillery strikes.

And until we have actual robots taking the place of infantry, you will need infantry. As long as you need infantry, you will need service rifles.

We'll never replace a rifleman because at the end of the day winning a battle means placing and holding riflmen within the enemy's territority. But don't discount drones as some sort of toy only useful for dispatching Vatniks.

Imagine what these 11K drones would be capable of if they were equipped with a kilo of C4 a piece. The beaches of Taiwan will look like a slaughterhouse.

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I do wonder how much of that new Russian small arms cartridge is along the same lines of the SU-57 and Armata: "we have to do something to look innovative and keeping up with the West". They make a big fuss about it and produce some prototypes. And in the end, they really do fuck all but to modernize their Soviet era designs, because they can't put those things into mass production. So like @AGPinochet said, AK-12M2 in 5.45

Though if they really wanted to, the small arms upgrade would actually be doable, because it doesn't require Western components and even the Russians can't fuck that up, they do know how to make guns.
There is very little propaganda value in small arms, Russians explore experimental cartridge concepts just like every other major military power does. The adopted 2018 model AK-12 was the way it was because the MOD didn't want to pay for the apparently absurdly expensive per unit Zlobin AK-12 design and I think some runners general didn't understand the difference between Hyperburst and Regular burst (which to clarify, the Zlobin AK-12 was not Hyperburst capable), they then realized that the 2018 model AK-12 was awful and partially fixed and improved it with the 2022 model they had prototypes of in 2021, then they finally stopped being silly and ripped the burst mechanism out, reinforced the handguard, made the safety ambi and replaced the muzzle device for better and worse with a pinned flash under instead of a removable muzzle brake for the 2023 model.

Speaking of advanced Russian small arms


Also is tagging not working for anyone else? This is the 2nd time I've been tagged in the last month and neither time I got a notification

There was an airshow in China not too long ago where the Russians were invited to bring their aircraft to show off, and it was discovered the panels on the Su-57 were attached with fucking wood screws. Like, literal Phillips head wood screws. And there were large, uneven gaps between the panels all over the fuselage.
You're thinking of the T-50 developmental prototype that had easily removable panels to test different aerodynamic profiles during development
I'm just kidding
I mean look at these Su-57s, clearly these planes was made by a race of retarded apes that had no idea regarding aircraft design
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And then there's their "world leading" S-400 air defense system, the one that for years they claimed could not just detect Western stealth aircraft, but also lock on and shoot them down. Well, turns out that was a lie and they can't even detect small drones which have a much higher radar signature than an F-35.

S-400 fires 24ft interceptors at Planes and missiles, why do you think it failed at intercepting USV launched FPV's that fly 30 feet off the ground. Any radar at a close enough distance can detect even the lowest RCS aircraft, Western radars are not magic either. If any air defense system failed it was Pantsirs for not being physically present.

staggering amount of corruption everywhere in Russia from Putin himself, to
Excuse me, It's called lobbying

MIC contractors
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and his body armor, and decent boots and gear, and batteries, and food, and...).
Ah yes, Russians don't have food, fuel, water, ammunition, boots, uniforms or body armor and The brave and heroic Ukrainians are killing a thousand of them daily but they still can't make any meaningful advances and need $100 Billion monthly lest they collapse and Russians do 7 days to the Rhine for reals this time. American soldiers and even special forces have famously never made private purchases or had unit funds
 
I think it's certainly more likely than the rest of their junk, if only because small-arms don't require advance electronics. They have a robust military and civilian arms industry so mass production shouldn't be a problem for them.
They don't have a robust small arms industry though. AK-12 is a shitty rifle and they can't even field it in mass. The previous attempt to modernize with the AK-100 series didn't go anywhere because the resources weren't there. The Soviet made AK-74s are treasured by units that can get ahold of them because anything made after isn't considered great. They were issuing rusty AKMs to conscript-penal units in 2022. Maybe they aren't tier-one units but if you had functional weapons in stock, you might as well give them to the guys you need to fight. The small arms industry can't fix the problems with the AK despite creating interesting derivatives of it.

They can't do precision weapons and the Russian government has to buy either civilian made or forged end user certificate Accuracy International rifles and smuggle them into Russia for their police and special forces units to use. That's pretty sad you have to go to the west to get quality precision rifles.

Civilian-wise, it's not like the US, they have a large civilian market driving innovation, its a pain to become a gun owner in Russia and the market is much smaller than in the west.
 
i'd just like to point out that neither Russia or Ukraine has encrypted fucking radios
There's many reasons for this:

- Both the RuAF and AFU have a totally clusterfucked inventory of communication equipment ranging from late Soviet hardware to modern digital transceivers. That means for any form of interoperability you have to use a simplex analog channel which is the lowest form of tech shared between them.

- When you are fighting asshole to elbow with your neighbor, any deviation in signal patterns becomes easily identifiable and exploitable. For example:
If you're using analog, and the other guy is using DMR (or Tetra or whatever cursed standard Russia uses) it becomes pretty easy to identify who you want to direct fire at. And vice-versa. This dilemma has essentially forced both sides to adopt in the clear analog communications or piggyback off of existing cellular infrastructure. Most soldiers use smartphones.

The Ukrainians literally use Discord and VOIP phones for frontline comms.
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All doctrine has completely deteriorated because there are simply too many unknowns that are constantly changing.

Another thing I don't think I've ever seen anyone point out is that while there are counters to some EW techniques that could enable digital encrypted comms, such as spread spectrum frequency hopping, these usually require a GNSS time reference between each transceiver to achieve this. GNSS jamming is increasingly common, and GNSS is an Achille's heel of modern communication systems. Also, frequency hopping is not nearly as useful as it once was.

The future of tactical communications is spectrum efficient narrowband skywave HF and ground-to-air drone links.
 
The service rifle has been secondary to artillerly since WW1
The Austro-Prussian war of 1860s is literally the last time an individual service weapon dictated the course of the war.

That doesn't mean, we shouldn't try to equip our troops the best way we can. Small creeks become big rivers. The better the individual rifleman is equipped, the better his chance of survival. Better his chance of survival, the higher likelihood of winning a battle, etc.
 
The cope during the opening invasion when everyone was wondering why Russians didn’t have optics on their rifles was hilarious.


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Right now optics won’t make a huge difference in the fight since it’s all trench fighting, drones, and artillery (although would be nice for the guys on the ground) but for me and all the issues that were cropping up in the initial invasion (lack of coordination, radios, tires rotted on vehicles) it really shattered the “Russia is a huge global threat we have to take seriously”. Maybe things have changed on the ground in comparison but right now I wouldn’t want to be the Baltics, granted they’re NATO but the time it’ll take to get the US fully rolled up isn’t good.

Jeez...that's some gnarly cope. If optics are "literally just a preference and they do the same thing as irons", then why is it that when the Australian military made the switch from the L1A1 to the AUG, they had to change the way they scored marksmanship, because with the AUG and it's built-in optic most of the troops were suddenly scoring expert? It couldn't possibly be that optics actually are better than iron sights and make scoring effective accurate shots much easier, which is why pretty much every modern military considers them standard issue (including on weapons like machine guns) and issues them, and Russia just can't afford to issue them to most of their troops, right? Naw, it's totally just personal preference and the Rooskie soldiers just like the shitty iron sights and short sight radius on their Kalashnikovs better. Some people's children, man...
 
Jeez...that's some gnarly cope. If optics are "literally just a preference and they do the same thing as irons", then why is it that when the Australian military made the switch from the L1A1 to the AUG, they had to change the way they scored marksmanship, because with the AUG and it's built-in optic most of the troops were suddenly scoring expert? It couldn't possibly be that optics actually are better than iron sights and make scoring effective accurate shots much easier, which is why pretty much every modern military considers them standard issue (including on weapons like machine guns) and issues them, and Russia just can't afford to issue them to most of their troops, right? Naw, it's totally just personal preference and the Rooskie soldiers just like the shitty iron sights and short sight radius on their Kalashnikovs better. Some people's children, man...
It has to be said though, that IIRC Danish military went back on doing basic training with irons, after they found out it produces better results with the recruits than going straight to red dots. Also, as the rifle is still just a PDW for most service members, it doesn't make sense to waste money on distributing optics for them. Therefore, everyone should know how to use and adjust iron sights.

But beyond that, there is no excuse in the year of 2025 for your infantryman not to be equipped with some sort of optic. The results in individual marksmanship are stark. IIRC, the Finnish Defence Forces have seen a drastic uptick in hit probability on lasertag wargames with units that use optics vs those that do not, and then you combine those with better range results too.
 
Naw, it's totally just personal preference and the Rooskie soldiers just like the shitty iron sights and short sight radius on their Kalashnikovs better.
The optic part is cope, but the irons on the AK are better than aperture sights for close range like when you are fighting in a trench.
 
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