Mewgenics - Edmund McMillen's biggest game yet

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Will it be better or worse than The Binding of Isaac?

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Stains Davidson said:
Confirmed for sure the ghosts receive healing like normal. There's definitely some subset of specifically "undead" enemies that receive damage from healing, everything that's a skeleton (the 0 HP all armour guys,) is in there and it seems so are "zombies" (anyone reanimated with the zombie status.)
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Good to know. Guess I got lucky with my boneyard run where I didnt get ghosts or the ghosts died so fast that my cleric didnt get to heal them.
 
Ghost aren't undead, they're just dead~~
I'm sure I've seen non-healing cleric AOEs hurt zombos, so it's possible it's just the holy element damaging them rather than inverted healing. So maybe the healing component can exceed the elemental damage sometimes? I have zero confidence in this, it's just a thought.
 
I thought my cat that slid into an Amigara Fault fissure was gone for good.
She came back after the RatKing midboss and it's making me really fucking uncomfortable.
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ETA: Some of the mutations that come with it are very nice though.
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I'm sure the game is just fucking with me at this point: two attempts at reaching the junkyard were aborted early because something fucked up the run either at the start (turning my cat with Sharpen Claws into a thief so the ability was useless) or halfway into it (the fountain of youth event turning my cleric into an eternal kitten, effectively debuffing their stats and making them unable to level up).
 
Counterfeit Obol said:
or halfway into it (the fountain of youth event turning my cleric into an eternal kitten, effectively debuffing their stats and making them unable to level up).
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Protip: if you can finish the run with a kitten like this, they don't get retired, and the next day you can send them out again and they start at whatever level you finished at
 
Blindeye said:
Protip: if you can finish the run with a kitten like this, they don't get retired, and the next day you can send them out again and they start at whatever level you finished at
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It happened early enough my cleric didn't get any levels. Dude was fucked right out the gate.

I should have skipped the encounter.
 
Counterfeit Obol said:
I'm sure the game is just fucking with me at this point: two attempts at reaching the junkyard were aborted early because something fucked up the run either at the start (turning my cat with Sharpen Claws into a thief so the ability was useless) or halfway into it (the fountain of youth event turning my cleric into an eternal kitten, effectively debuffing their stats and making them unable to level up).
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Yeah the game sometimes can really fuck you with events. I had quite a few Moon attempts aborted mid-crater due to similar shenanigans where an event fucked up the build I was going for, or the crater enemies just fucked up my cats and they were in no state to continue to the Moon.
 
I just beat Johnny. I feel like every new song I hear becomes my favourite song. Having a great time with this game. I unlocked the tinkerer. Is he worth using?

Stains Davidson said:
My best attempt so far was abandoned last night when I accidentally fed my super-strong rock aspect tank to one of the rock-munching monsters in the crater.
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Don't you savescum? I feel like the game is designed for you to do it once or twice in a run. I only really do it when some bullshit like that happens and deletes a run.
 
Triggerni66er said:
Don't you savescum?
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Nah, I'm a long-term classical roguelike traditionalist going all the way back to Rogue itself, and as a consequence I don't really believe in savescumming in games where it's not an intended mechanic. (The only game I've ever seen where it was intended explicitly was Duskers.) One of my favourites is the classic Nethack cockatrice, where if it touches you it turns you to stone for an instant game over, or the banshee in Ancient Domains of Mystery, who kills everything that comes within 5 tiles of her with her scream, instantly, no saving throw or fail chance or anything. You're supposed to just take it as a lesson, add it to your big pile of mental notes, and Not Do That Again.


In this instance to me it's important that I unambiguously just Made A Mistake, I read the enemy's description, I saw the line about it eating rocks, but forgot about the passive, cats aren't rocks, duh. I made a careless move and caught a ruler across the knuckles for it, which did elicit a negative emotional reaction akin to a minor toe stub ("Shit! Oof! That sucked, gotta pay more attention... oh well,") though I really think this is a good thing. I find many games these days hesitate too much about ever frustrating the player or ever leaving someone feeling dejected from a loss, which I think just lops off half of the emotional experiences you can have from the Interactive Piece of Art that you (maybe) paid for, it's a baby out with the bathwater kind of thing.


Triggerni66er said:
I unlocked the tinkerer. Is he worth using?
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The ceiling and floor for the power of most of the "advanced" classes I've seen so far both seem significantly higher than the basic ones (Butcher is an exception, in that it seems to be baseline better than Fighter in a vacuum with no levels.) I've had a tinker that auto-won the game and 1-turned every fight all the way through, I've had many tinkers that contributed a totally passable but not amazing amount of damage per turn and literally never did anything else, and I've had a lot of duds that can't even manage that. They have a couple of really important passives/skills that generate "Tech" which you want to watch for, which if you don't get any of them it significantly increases the chance of that tinker being a dud.
 
Now I'm curious, what's the best Butcher build you guys have ever gotten? I've used it a good amount now and it's always just ok, my best Butcher pretty much still just hooks and kills one or two enemies per turn and has a lot of HP, they're never anywhere close to my best Fighters which easily dash around the entire map and/or kill half a dozen enemies a turn
 
A thief, a ranger, a necro, and a cleric walk into the desert...and come out unscathed! Nail toss is a must if you're in the boneyard or the desert, those skeleton enemies will crumple like paper. Also found a hose nozzle so I could generate infinite water. Cleric has the dig skill so its poor movement speed is irrelevant. Only one that's lacking so far is the necro but that may change.
 
Blindeye said:
Now I'm curious, what's the best Butcher build you guys have ever gotten? I've used it a good amount now and it's always just ok, my best Butcher pretty much still just hooks and kills one or two enemies per turn and has a lot of HP, they're never anywhere close to my best Fighters which easily dash around the entire map and/or kill half a dozen enemies a turn
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My most memorable had double spin attack (St 13 at end run), poison wind, hook skill with trample, hat that gave snake familiar, passive that had 50% change of generating fleas at end of her turn and on top of that bloodfrenzy.

There wasn't much left on the screen once she was done with one of her little episodes.
 
Blindeye said:
Now I'm curious, what's the best Butcher build you guys have ever gotten? I've used it a good amount now and it's always just ok, my best Butcher pretty much still just hooks and kills one or two enemies per turn and has a lot of HP, they're never anywhere close to my best Fighters which easily dash around the entire map and/or kill half a dozen enemies a turn
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I think the strongest abilities they have are the food ones (jump to food, move to food automatically, increase damage when collecting food, etc,) and the spin. The spin counts range, so each point of range takes it from a 3x3, to a 5x5, to a 7x7, which gets really silly really fast if you can block ally damage. (The upgraded range boosting skill gives +3, so for I think 4 mana you can just basic attack the whole stage every turn.) The actual strongest gamebreaker combos I've had with them though involved combining their fly summoning + bonuses with a Hunter's pooter fly summon + summon bonuses.
 
Found an absolutely fuck-off broken synergy and probably one of the few things I'd expect to get nerfed.

leeech.jpg leech2.jpg

All you need to make this work is a cleric or somebody that has a 'cure status effects' ability with higher speed than your necro. Note the wording on Immortal 'or loses its leeches'. You chuck leeches onto an enemy. Turn ends, they tick. Next turn, have the cleric cure their stack of x leeches and then throw (3x+3) leeches onto them with the necro when his turn's up. In 5 turns of this you can get 400+ leech onto a boss. I completely melted the fire-related house boss without putting out burning cats once, with zero deaths.

Also Butcher with the hunter rubber arrows 'your projectiles bounce to a nearby unit' passive means chain hook which does exactly what it sounds like and is the most hilariously unpredictable thing ever.
 
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Blindeye said:
Now I'm curious, what's the best Butcher build you guys have ever gotten? I've used it a good amount now and it's always just ok, my best Butcher pretty much still just hooks and kills one or two enemies per turn and has a lot of HP, they're never anywhere close to my best Fighters which easily dash around the entire map and/or kill half a dozen enemies a turn
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The one I liked, though not necessary the most powerful is the one where you get +1 rot if you inflict rot, then paired with the ones that make your flies more powerful. Since corpses still retain their rot status even in death, you can amass an army of disposable flies that deal like 5-6 damage a pop. If you get that one skill that turns food piles into flies, even better.

Of course, when paired with the cleric "Thou Shalt Not Kill" it easily becomes hilariously bonkers.

Stains Davidson said:
One of my favourites is the classic Nethack cockatrice, where if it touches you it turns you to stone for an instant game over
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Ah yes, the classic of using the cockatrice body as a weapon, then stumbling over a pit and getting petrified for your hubris.
 
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