Mewgenics - Edmund McMillen's biggest game yet

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Will it be better or worse than The Binding of Isaac?

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    47
  • Poll closed .
funwithshemales69 said:
Just out of curiosity, how much time have you guys put into it individually?
Im about 30 hours in, defeated guillotina and Im bored now, the desert seems boring as fuck with the "no heal" mechanic and managing water bottles is a pain in the ass
Ive gone back to obsessively playing Isaac and Im worried that Im not liking this anymore. Progression seems too slow and one bad run (which is most of my runs) fucks up your resources (I dont have many good cats to begin with, all of them are a max 7).
Meanwhile everybody here is at the crater and the void and beyond.
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Help
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I've only just gotten to both of Act 3's areas, now I'm trying to figure out if The Obelisk is what I need to clear to progress the plot and partly just fucking around trying to get rid of my huge cat overload. (I think I have like 40-50 right now and nowhere near enough furniture/space to hold them all.)

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I was going to write a long post here, but everyone above me has already elaborated on what I was going to say and made me realize that my playtime is nothing compared to some of the lucky ducks here so I won't. They're right, though:
  • This is a game about making abominations against god (such as the following specimens) and tactical RPG nonsense, you do not need to be worrying about resources as much as you are right now. Ignore base stats, ignore the inbred, just try to stack horrible mutations on top of each other as much as physically possible so that you end up with an uberkatzen that looks like every moment of its life is pure suffering.
abominations.PNG brain_damage.PNG crimes_against_nature.PNG evangelion.PNG I_have_seen_god.PNG
It may be worth noting that only half of these cats are actually worth imitating. Most of them have birth defects that you do not want on your party under any circumstances.
  • The Desert's primary PITA is not water or healing, it's the fucking shops being taken up by useless water bottles that try to swindle you. Water bottles are useless, they are almost entirely unnecessary for a Desert run and I haven't used one past my first two desert campaigns. Worry more about damage reduction and keeping your Cleric alive. (Shouldn't be a problem if you've specced it into Strength and Constitution.)
I've gotten to a point now where the Desert is really fucking easy, and I'm not even playing optimally. I'll sometimes allow objective birth defects into my pool if they're on a cat with like 4+ beneficial mutations and some good abilities. (This is currently screwing me over and is bad advice. Do not do it. Point is: I'm a retard fumbling my way through this hell and I'm still managing to get by somehow.) Yet almost all of my Desert clears don't end in a dead cat (sometimes I don't even leave it with injuries); every single subsequent area gives me far more trouble, and I am begging you to keep your guard up for everything past the Desert instead of the Desert itself.

Fuck the Moon, man. I've done this stupid area THREE TIMES IN A ROW. I am so sick of greens raping my guys. I am even sicker of the recolored brain fetuses that can also take extra turns and attack you for like 10 damage each. I am especially sick of fighting 6 of them at once, then getting raped by greens because I'm trying to split my attention and failing. It doesn't help that this path basically mandates Tank/Cleric (the former for Eat Rock and the latter for basic survival), so getting raped by greens usually mandates a redo because if I lose either of those guys my team tends to fall very fast.
And the fucking obelisk still won't activate!! I've tried to touch that thing so damn many times!! I'm on the verge of bringing a Thief along on my next trip, which I know is a very bad idea because those things are glass cannons and this path likes to punish you just for breathing, but I don't see any other choice. It's like the only class I have that prioritizes Luck above else, and even then I have to hope and pray that the dumb fucking event triggers on my Thief instead of my Tank or Cleric. Or I have to hope the randomized collar lands on Thief so that I can bring two Thieves along and handicap my DPS for the coinflip chance that I finally get that fucking obelisk working. Grrrr. Stupid.
 
Anonitolia said:
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This seems like your autistic hyperfixation

And my breeding/collecting is off cause all I get are birth defects. I once had a lineage which was very inbred cause the progenitor had a mutation which gave 9 strength. And my clerics and necros get eaten by sand sharks or fucked over by the miniboss.

I wish I could plan well by looking into future possibilities but I'm not autistic enough, unfortunately. A lot of the premier roguelike players seem to know exactly what builds/synergies they want ahead of time and play in just the right way to get it. I can't do that, that's the main reason why I suck at slay the spire, darkest dungeon, to some extent isaac and this one. I tried to pick up darkest dungeon again, for the 8th time after many failed attempts and I got reynauld and 3 others killed within 4 runs. I'm not dropping this game but if I can make it beyond bunker and act 2 in general then I'll be happy. I wish I could unlock the ther classes soon enough.
 
funwithshemales69 said:
And my breeding/collecting is off cause all I get are birth defects.
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Birth defects come from inbreeding, non-defect mutations come from other sources (mostly events in runs, and overnight in rooms with Mutation items), the two pools are usually mutually exclusive aside from a few events, meaning you'll never get the good regular mutations from just normal inbreeding, and vice versa. As for bad defects cursing the lineage, this is where the eugenics part comes in, best to check the kitten's defects straight away and immediately purge if they have any negative ones and not even look at the stats, or at least get rid of them as soon as they come home and don't let them breed. Getting a bad mutation out of your genepool is much harder than never letting it enter, and the more of your cats have it, the more likely you'll just end up having to do a huge purge and actually set yourself back other breeding progress later
 
Anonitolia said:
Yet almost all of my Desert clears don't end in a dead cat (sometimes I don't even leave it with injuries); every single subsequent area gives me far more trouble, and I am begging you to keep your guard up for everything past the Desert instead of the Desert itself.
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Crater is far more hellish than whatever shit you think Desert can throw at you. Bunker is so-so, I'd rate it more like Boneyard level in terms of actual mechanics that can actually screw you over.

That said, I'm definitely learning to wean myself off water bottles and water items, but I find it useful to still pack at least one on a cat. (Take your pick, water bottle, old hose, water drip, a cat that pisses itself). You may not need it, but you'll be glad to have them around. And I don't mind water bottle as an item; it's a good pick for cleric to be carrying since they usually cant heal themselves. And if you're going Core you want those water items anyway.
 
funwithshemales69 said:
Just out of curiosity, how much time have you guys put into it individually?
Im about 30 hours in, defeated guillotina and Im bored now, the desert seems boring as fuck with the "no heal" mechanic and managing water bottles is a pain in the ass
Ive gone back to obsessively playing Isaac and Im worried that Im not liking this anymore. Progression seems too slow and one bad run (which is most of my runs) fucks up your resources (I dont have many good cats to begin with, all of them are a max 7).
Meanwhile everybody here is at the crater and the void and beyond.
Click to expand...
you'll get freaks who "yeah bro true end in like 100 hours or less" but especially if you enjoy the game or struggle a bit, it can take a very long time and that's normal/intended. i know it's not necessarily ""fun"" or everyone's cup of tea, but there's never anything stopping you from replaying/grinding early shit you're fairly confident in doing, for furniture, gold, learning, etc. tbh, i usually just avoid the desert if at all possible until it rains at the house so the heal penalty is a non factor. otherwise it can fuck some classes REALLY hard, like druid. it also removes water bottle juggling. much less a gamble. it can be annoying waiting for it though, and in winter i don't *think* snow has the same effect, but it's less of a gamble of catastrophic failures especially when working through the game earlier. be VERY on the lookout for "water feeder" items. it also negates heat wave for one cat, (pretty sure), and also trivializes a quest item trip there.

main thing when comparing it with isaac is, obviously, the dlc support, mewgenics is supposed to be promised a similar level but obviously it's not been out that long, and also tbh isaac's progression is even worse. imo. you have to play as base isaac with no fun shit for a very long time, especially on the base game. mewgenics does have some anti-fail mechanics with the zombie, but it can still be obv painful, so i usually stick with "i'm pretty confident i can do this" until i have to/want to do something for progression or challenge. it's a good idea to never "gamble with money you don't have/can't stand to lose", like if attempting the desert early on, don't use items that are very important, and try to make sure you have a day or 2 worth of food and cats as a safety net. lost cats sucks, having to do next run with starve debuff cats REALLY sucks. for safety always remember, if possible, you can leave one/a couple weak enemies and just have your cleric heal until satisfied.

progression can be wonky though, 5 classes are locked behind act 2, with the desert being a pia and needing to be went through eventually at minimum 9(?) times for everything and bonus shit, it really feels shitty to be stuck in act 1 and not have access to monk, psychic, butcher, tinkerer, and eventually jester, lessens replayability a while. having difficulty/reward modifiers open up partway at act 3 also feels kind of bad but probably warranted. for general progression though, it's a good idea to follow/keep up with butch, if he wants cats from a certain area, it's in your best interest to do so, also helps when you have to clear early areas then go back feel less shit.

if you're really struggling, biggest thing that helped me in breeding is making sure at minimum you are breeding 5+ cats, i had some 4s around and it helped a bit to make sure they were all breeding minimum 5. if you see strays that have 6s or 7s, put them in the breeding pile until you have kittens with those numbers in those stats and still 5s or however much in others then throw away the stray and over time you build a better line. as your cats start to gradually get mutations that pass genetically, they also get more "chaotically" ""powerful"" as long as you filter out shit you don't want/need/like, for example, a cat having knockback on basic attack ruins druid. electric element basic attack makes all robots immune, buffed, however it does help in sewers or water areas. before then, always make sure you look at your cats little dna icon if it's there, if it has "permanent blindness/confusion on start/5% miss chance every turn" etc, be sure to dump them.

Anonitolia said:
I've only just gotten to both of Act 3's areas, now I'm trying to figure out if The Obelisk is what I need to clear to progress the plot and partly just fucking around trying to get rid of my huge cat overload. (I think I have like 40-50 right now and nowhere near enough furniture/space to hold them all.)
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progression after killing house bosses is, (stand alone) act 1> 2 items to caves/boneyard then mask to altar, act 2> 2 items to moon/core, deliver the kaiju payload, act 3> time chamber throbbing king (act 1 quest area unlock)> 2 items to end/jurassic, amplifier to the rift (act 2 area unlock) so yes to progress the plot, unlock rift. pro tip: if you haven't done everything yet, find a water feeder to take the scalding orb to the moon risk free (make sure moon man eats the cat with it, it insta kills it too i believe) then charge the black shard in alley or easy areas or wherever other than desert/core. when charged, take your kaiju (i recommend zaratana because crater maker insta kill) to the core, make sure you kill the coven with the shard, then zaratana can also do the obelisk making a 2 in one quest. if you have pyrophina, it should work same way i reckon, instead do shard first, then take orb and pyrophina, feed orb to moon man, then should also be able to activate obelisk, 2 for 1 without a repeat run. make sure when running kaijus you savescum if needed, a few insta killers that are annoying.
Anonitolia said:
It may be worth noting that only half of these cats are actually worth imitating. Most of them have birth defects that you do not want on your party under any circumstances.
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meh, birth defects are kind of necessary evil for a convenient breeding pile that keeps mutations, just remove the status ailment shit, keep shit that could be useful or potentially workable (ive used immobile 1 turn on druids and it works just fine). i've heard of people making separate all 7 bloodlines in multiple rooms and interchanging or having cats fuck further up the line but tbh that's a real pia. 9/10 mutations and 2 defects is good enough unless really fucking long term progressed
Anonitolia said:
Fuck the Moon, man. I've done this stupid area THREE TIMES IN A ROW. I am so sick of greens raping my guys. I am even sicker of the recolored brain fetuses that can also take extra turns and attack you for like 10 damage each. I am especially sick of fighting 6 of them at once, then getting raped by greens because I'm trying to split my attention and failing. It doesn't help that this path basically mandates Tank/Cleric (the former for Eat Rock and the latter for basic survival), so getting raped by greens usually mandates a redo because if I lose either of those guys my team tends to fall very fast.
And the fucking obelisk still won't activate!! I've tried to touch that thing so damn many times!! I'm on the verge of bringing a Thief along on my next trip, which I know is a very bad idea because those things are glass cannons and this path likes to punish you just for breathing, but I don't see any other choice. It's like the only class I have that prioritizes Luck above else, and even then I have to hope and pray that the dumb fucking event triggers on my Thief instead of my Tank or Cleric. Or I have to hope the randomized collar lands on Thief so that I can bring two Thieves along and handicap my DPS for the coinflip chance that I finally get that fucking obelisk working. Grrrr. Stupid.
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greens scared the fuck out of me at first but haven't really ever been a problem for me, if there's a horde just make sure you let them come to you and watch your cat's asses. have a hunter etc pick them off and only let melee be vulnerable if they can kill them. are you taking the hard paths? hard on crater/moon is kind of annoyingly pointless to me, because you only get meteors (abilities) the vibrating cursed meteor is interesting but not worth the pain, especially compared to like bunker giving rare furnitures and core giving coins. make sure you try to position your cats where the fetuses arm's don't counter if possible (easier said than done sometimes) or attacking them hard but slowly with healing so they don't chain-rape your ass on your own turns. would recommend focusing greens in situations like that and pretending fetuses don't exist, keeping weak units backline, healing shit that gets slapped until then.

i believe the "activation" you're talking about isn't the quest item, right? it's not that bad then. you get a decent mutation or 2 or a injury. it's just a gamble, like the shit after the final act bosses. not worth taking a thief just for that because events choose at random anyway, so might choose senor no luck. i love tanks but i don't think it mandates them, honestly, one of the more pia areas in the game with them, because the fucking asteroids (now asteroids, i do fuckin hate) but i can usually deal with them ok with like a hunter playing "pool" with them. high def/hp tanks very nice for being ate by moon man and having hands auto attack itself though. eat rock is nice there, if you can get it, but other stuff like bruise stacking or ailments works fine too. definitely don't take 2 fuckin thieves for that, you'd hate yourself

generally recommend if you struggle or get unlucky somewhere to just do a run somewhere else, for more items, or depending on progression, if you have like 32 stim or so, take classes with abilities you might like or are useful universally but particularly on classes you may not normally use, like say, try getting a thief with the shank ability early or some shit and others, then when they breed, you might get kittens that start with some of those to "multiclass" or lessen early/mid difficulty
 
Birthday Cat said:
i'm pretty confident i can do this
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Since this thread encourages me, I went for one more run. Miniboss killed my cleric, hunter and mage and stole my necro. I had to sacrifice four basic cats to gullotina as a result, good cats. I lost four runs today. I'm no longer enjoying this shit but I'll do it for ed mcmillen like I did with the end is nigh.
 
You probably just gotta play slower, man.

You have infinite time and effectively Near Perfect information to use for decision-making if you use that infinite time to read everything, which for the combat is pretty much all the game is asking of you.

If you've ever played a card game like Magic: The Gathering, this game uses almost all the same muscle memory if you're playing it right, looking for combos and resource management and testing interactions and etc, and if you've ever played Into the Breach, this game uses almost all the same muscle memory if you're playing it right, where every turn is a puzzle with a solution and any Loss Scenario you find yourself in probably originates like 9 turns back in a different fight entirely when you made a mistake and ate a bad hit/used a consumable you should have kept/otherwise "solved a puzzle wrong." A lot of people are trying to play it too much like a proper SRPG, when it really is much much much closer to something like Into the Breach.
 
Another comparison: it's like Darkest Dungeon in that taking even small hits is not good if you can avoid it, and it's better to plan your moves around stopping enemies from hurting you, usually by killing them first, or staying out of their range, because attrition will wear you down if you take unnecessary hits all the time. All of these games use the same common skillset, and it's about how you look at options presented to you, you only have so much control over your build even with starting items and a carefully-bred cat, so whenever you get a level up you should think, "What did this cat do in the last battle, and would any of these options fix a problem/make it perform even better?"

In my experience the game is surprisingly well-balanced so that you can usually patch up any problems a cat has over the course of a run, mitigate bad RNG, and find a way to get through fights. The other part of skill at it is just knowledge, when you know all the enemies in each area and what kinds of strategies they favor, you start to make choices based on the particular run you're trying to do and how those choices will play out in the specific upcoming boss fights. And you DO sometimes just get absolutely fucked by bad RNG of course, which is why the game is kind enough to let you abort a run early if you can finish the current area. If you're not confident you'll be able to get through the next area you absolutely should do this without shame, and having knowledge of all of them again helps you know if your team is up to the next zones or not and make that call.
 
funwithshemales69 said:
See the way lavencas, lazy mattman and to some extent northernlion play isaac/slay the spire. That's extreme talent.
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It's just exposure (maybe not northernlion, I don't really watch him but that guy seems to have actively sculpted himself into some sort of streamer savant in a way that's almost kind of sad).
Mattman is a good example, he's a chill dude who is fun to watch partly because he isn't actually super great at the game, he just has five actual thousand hours playing Isaac so he knows the angles. Most proper roguelikeish type games work like this. You don't need to think hard about it to get a feel for what works and what to avoid (due to previous trauma), everything's a gamble but you get an innate sense for how to hedge your bets just by playing. You'll still have failed runs but it only takes a couple decent/crazy ones you assemble with accumulated knowledge to accomplish whatever you're trying to do.

If you look at people who are already at the end of that process and continuing to play way beyond the point anyone else would if they weren't being paid for it, then yeah. They'll break the game almost every run. The rest of us would be bored at that point.

The cool part of this is the process of a new area/whatever feeling intimidating at first, then realising you're breezing through it once you're focusing on the next thing. It's part of the draw of the genre, it's normal.

Regarding water bottles: it's true that you don't need them, but they're there to be used while you're getting comfortable with the zone, so don't listen to anyone on this. Use your own judgement and drop them once you realise you're aggressive enough in Desert that you're getting to the end without healing anyway (or are comfortable with budgeting health/other healing sources as you go). They're just a tool like anything else.
Even once you know what you're doing there's cases where you might take an unlucky early hit and grab one to treat like a normal healing item in any other area, regardless of the heat gimmick.
 
Don't do The Shimmer if your cats have one or two Mini-Me passives.

Fucking mini-Druid started a fire due to the mutation "your basic attack does fire"

Also to get new mutation strains quicker in your gene-pool, start an Alley-Cave run with 3 strong/mutated cats and 1 HIGH-LIBIDO stray with the fabulous rod

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Just don't let the cat die + stop mutating it if they obtain a desireable mutation ex. +1 basic attack
 
Sad day as I beefed it at Poryphrina, had her down to 87hp but i lost my cat with spit that kept putting out my guys and that was that.

I smashed the throbbing king some more to get hats unlocked. My favourite time, I had made a Necromancer out of a cat with the hunter abilities scattershot and poison lace.

He got the ability grave crawl to teleport anywhere and dig up bodies, and dark ritual. And he started with bodies near him at the beginning of the round, Dark ritual makes you blow up a body to get a free cast and the upgrade gives you a 2:1 deal. Add in the DNA replicator and I had infinite casts of scattershot which allowed me to kill the Throbbing king in 1 turn.
 
Ah ha' said:
Sad day as I beefed it at Poryphrina, had her down to 87hp but i lost my cat with spit that kept putting out my guys and that was that.
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Cleanse unironically might be the best support ability in the game, especially the upgraded one. You might as well ditch cleric as a class if you are able to spread it to other classes through breeding
 
great art and poop are inextricably intertwined. to create art you must eat burger. if you eat burger you must shit. spend 13 years on a single work of art and your holy mountain is the summit of a peak of pure poop. edmund fearlessly embraces the honest beauty in this truth
 
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